Lawsuit Good News/Bad News

A

av84fun

Banned
There have been numerous posts in other threads encouraging, in effect, a class action lawsuit rather than to accept the supposed offer of settling for 1/3 in installments.

First, without seeing and CONTRACT providing for the terms and conditions of any such settlement, no rational opinion can be formed.

But just for sake of argument, suppose the partial payment contract provides only for the payment of 1/3 in installments over some reasonable period and a FULL RELEASE from liability on the part of the IPT to pay any additional amounts.

Here's the deal...from a guy who...trust me...has been around the bard MANY times.

1. If the lawyer won't take a $3 million case on a roughly 30-35% contingency fee basis (no fees...just a share of the award) which would equal roughly ONE MILLION DOLLARS to the lawyer who wins full payment, then that lawyer DOES NOT BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY IN THE CASE!!!
2. There are LOTS of reasons...other than legal merits...why a lawyer might not be too convinced of his/her ability to win. Among those reasons is the potential bankruptcy of the defendant. You can FLAT OUT WIN on the merits and BECAUSE you won, a debt is created that can justify the filing of bankruptcy...in which case your Judgment obtained in the civil trial would be suitable for framing and of little additional value.
3. Even if you prevail and the defendant DOES NOT file bankruptcy you will pay the 35% contingency fee PLUS COSTS which can be very substantial. A single deposition of ONE party for example...including lawyer prep time, the time expended in the dep...the court reporter fee and the post dep analysis will cost a MINIMUM of $10,000.00 PER DEPOSITION!
4. The litigation, from filing to the eventual jury trial will take AT LEAST two years...then you can BET on the defendant filing an appeal and there goes another year MINIMUM. After that, the defendant who loses on appeal can file a writ of certiari to ask the state or Federal Supreme court to review the case...there goes AT LEAST six months before the writ is accepted or denied and AT LEAST another six months to a year before the Supreme Court ever hears the case. But even without a Supreme Court appeal, you are looking at a MINIMUM of 3-4 years before any money comes your way. Speedy justice is a MYTH in this country...and quite frankly, that's the way the lawyers...who create the law and the rules of civil procedure want it...including YOUR lawyer if the cold hard truth were known.
5. At the end of the day, even if you win 100% of the money demanded, at least 50% of that is out the window to fees and costs (see exceptions below) leaving you with 50% in your pocket vs. 33.3% that you might be able to get NOW...or in a few months.

Bottom line you should VERY, VERY carefully weigh the "bird in the hand" offer unless it contains ridiculous terms and conditions which none of us know about because no CONTRACT for partial payment has been given to anyone. (Of course, it would be entirely proper to doubt that any such offer...even if made officially...will ever proceed to the payment of even the first installment!!)

EXCEPTIONS:

A. Can KT be held personally liable? That is a VERY tough question the answer to which is FRAUGHT with legal uncertainties. Besides, even if he can be held liable, HOW MUCH MONEY DOES HE HAVE??? If you think that isn't an issue, ask Fred Goldman...the plaintiff in the O.J. civil trial who hasn't been paid SQUAT so far.

B. If there is a showing of fraud, then the obligation cannot be discharged in bankruptcy...fine. BUT...re-read "A". Does the IPT or KT have the assets to satisfy the judgment?? I don't KNOW the answer to that and neither do the players and neither does any attorney on the planet except KT's attorney...MAYBE.

Make no mistake....I HATE what has happend to the players and I HATE lies and liars and I think the Arabian practice of cutting thieves hands off is an EXCELLENT idea. I am just saying that I have SEEN THIS MOVIE and I can tell you for a FACT that suing people is a long, hard, tough road and therefore the offer of payment of 1/3...IF there are no ridiculous conditions is NOT something that you should reject out of hand.

DO NOTHING WITHOUT OBTAINING YOUR OWN LEGAL ADVICE!!!!

Regards,
Jim
 
I know I am owed pennies compared to many players, I feel horrible for them.
I also feel horrible at the thought of KT walking away from this mess and able to do it again to another industry. Kevin must be exposed and hopefully slowed down from doing it again.
I personally would NEVER be interested in settling, I will report him because he is wrong and must be stopped.
 
If ...

a player is under the impression that the check is 1/3 payment of the money due, with subsequent monthly payments of 1/3 each, then in order for the first check to be considered FULL PAYMENT, it has to state THAT ON THE CHECK OR CHECK STUB.

FOR EXAMPLE, Acceptance of this payment is considered payment in full.

Or By cashing said check, you are acknowleging that full payment has been made.

or something similiar ....

Yes, an attorney would probably have you cash it and put in an escrow account, with a legal letter notifying the IPT that you are holding the 1/3 payment until the remaining 2/3's have been paid.

Basically, the IPT is counting on Pool players not being too bright in legal matters, their lack of initiative to organize and come together, and to follow through in a concerted manner to get their money.

BTW, A friend told me the NEW ISSUE of Billiards Digest has it right on the cover saying, 'We had the tournament, NOW WHEN DO WE GET PAID?'.
That shouild start something rolling ....
 
Snapshot9 said:
a player is under the impression that the check is 1/3 payment of the money due, with subsequent monthly payments of 1/3 each, then in order for the first check to be considered FULL PAYMENT, it has to state THAT ON THE CHECK OR CHECK STUB.

FOR EXAMPLE, Acceptance of this payment is considered payment in full.

Or By cashing said check, you are acknowleging that full payment has been made.

or something similiar ....

Yes, an attorney would probably have you cash it and put in an escrow account, with a legal letter notifying the IPT that you are holding the 1/3 payment until the remaining 2/3's have been paid.

Basically, the IPT is counting on Pool players not being too bright in legal matters, their lack of initiative to organize and come together, and to follow through in a concerted manner to get their money.

BTW, A friend told me the NEW ISSUE of Billiards Digest has it right on the cover saying, 'We had the tournament, NOW WHEN DO WE GET PAID?'.
That shouild start something rolling ....
Click to expand...

With the KTrack record, waiting on each payment would be brutal and a littany of announcements may follow each supposid release of each 'next' round of payments. Its difficult enough to get one payment at this point, who the heck wants to wait on 3 and get less??
 
If the lawyer for the players won the case wouldn't KT have to pay the court costs? And couldn't they sue for pain and suffering or whatever its called in this case? Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
If the lawyer for the players won the case wouldn't KT have to pay the court costs? And couldn't they sue for pain and suffering or whatever its called in this case? Johnnyt
Click to expand...
I don't know about pain and suffering but what if A) they got a group of lawyers for free and B) those lawyers went after the "guaranteed" $100,000 that each player was to make in 2007 along with the Reno payments and the "bonus" from the DVD sales?
 
Timberly said:
I don't know about pain and suffering but what if A) they got a group of lawyers for free and B) those lawyers went after the "guaranteed" $100,000 that each player was to make in 2007 along with the Reno payments and the "bonus" from the DVD sales?
Click to expand...
Just a thought...but I wonder what the Nevada Gaming Commission would think about KT not paying off.
 
Timberly said:
I don't know about pain and suffering but what if A) they got a group of lawyers for free and B) those lawyers went after the "guaranteed" $100,000 that each player was to make in 2007 along with the Reno payments and the "bonus" from the DVD sales?
Click to expand...

The $100k "guarantee" is for 2007. It's still 2006.

You can't very well sue to collect funds that aren't even owed yet (assuming that it gets legally established that the $100k-for-2007 deal is even enforceable).

But, that does bring up a point - they HAVE said that players would pull down $13k for 2006. We now have two out of four tournaments cancelled (or "postponed" - we'll see in time, won't we?) - which obviously has an impact on the total yearly winnings for the players.

Even if they had run all four events - and a tour card holder played in all four, and went out right off the bat in all four - that's still not quite $13k. $2k minimum for the NA Open, I forget exactly how much it was supposed to be for the World Open - $2.5k? $3k? Let's assume $3k. And assuming the Chicago event and the London event both paid a minimum of $3k - that would be $11k for the four events.

Is that $13k figure anywhere in the contracts? Is there fine print saying it's dependent on the full event schedule coming off, and if it doesn't, then that figure is no longer applicable? Etc. etc.
 
Let's not forget about the television rights, if any, that have been or will be received from the airing of IPT players....... i don't have a clue if this is worth anything or not. He may have had to pay to get them aired, but if not - that should be thrown into the bag. In addition, every single qualifier held that applies to any tournament that either wasn't held or that wasn't paid..........
 
Eieio59 said:
Let's not forget about the television rights, if any, that have been or will be received from the airing of IPT players....... i don't have a clue if this is worth anything or not. He may have had to pay to get them aired, but if not - that should be thrown into the bag. In addition, every single qualifier held that applies to any tournament that either wasn't held or that wasn't paid..........
Click to expand...

By your statement it reminds me what ESPN has done for years here in the states, use pool as filler and advertising revenue for their coffers. Normally they would spend upwards of 250,000 getting the players to/from and payouts and generate 6-7 million through programming. At this poing KT is trying to save 66% on each dollar and then may go about selling the IPT footage, picturres etc. to get his money back and possibly more than invested.
 
av84fun said:
1. If the lawyer won't take a $3 million case on a roughly 30-35% contingency fee basis (no fees...just a share of the award) which would equal roughly ONE MILLION DOLLARS to the lawyer who wins full payment, then that lawyer DOES NOT BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY IN THE CASE!!!
Jim
Click to expand...

Jim, nice overview. As you are probably aware, fees for cases taken on a contigency basis are usually charged as a percentage of recovery, minus costs and expenses, using a downward sliding scale. That means recovered amounts up a particuliar number (perhaps $25K) may be charged up to, perhaps, 33% minus expenses, and amounts above, perhaps $250K, at perhaps $20%. Amounts recovered between the two are charged proportionally.

Contigency fees are totally negotiable, and for a $3M plus case, in my experience, should be no more than 25% in total.

Jim
 
jonnyt..<<If the lawyer for the players won the case wouldn't KT have to pay the court costs?>>

Not necessarily. Awarding fees and costs is up the judicial discretion and would be considered based on the facts and circumstances of the case.

<< And couldn't they sue for pain and suffering or whatever its called in this case?>>

Yes and no. It is very difficult to get "punitive damages" in contract matters as opposed to Torts (things like fraud). Not impossible...but difficult.

Regards,
Jim
 
Timberly...<<what if A) they got a group of lawyers for free and B) those lawyers went after the "guaranteed" $100,000 that each player was to make in 2007 along with the Reno payments and the "bonus" from the DVD sales?>>

Lawyers for FREE?? In the United States?? Except for pro bono work for indigents and/or Public Defenders in criminal matters, do you know of any lawyers that will engage in a multi-year legal battle that will cost AT LEAST $200,000.00 worth of their time for free?

LOL
 
Charlie Edwards...<<Just a thought...but I wonder what the Nevada Gaming Commission would think about KT not paying off.>>

Except for their personal, unofficaly opinions, they would think nothing. The event is not subject to their jurisdiction. The Nevada Attorney General's office is another matter.

Regards,
Jim
 
Eieio...<<Let's not forget about the television rights>>

Those rights are wrapped up in the COPYRIGHT that the IPT owns in the video masters. Those rights control the granting of permission to broadcast the events AND to duplicate them for sale in video formats (VHS, DVD etc.)

Those rights are worth A LOT of money. I don't know how much for sure but certainly in the millions of dollars. Just figure the retail price of videos..like those sold by Accu-Stats...say $20-25 per video for about 90 minutes of playing time. There are hundreds of hours of matchs and each video could, I assume, be expected to sell several thousand units per match. Do the math. (-:
 
av84fun said:
Eieio...<<Let's not forget about the television rights>>

Those rights are wrapped up in the COPYRIGHT that the IPT owns in the video masters. Those rights control the granting of permission to broadcast the events AND to duplicate them for sale in video formats (VHS, DVD etc.)

Those rights are worth A LOT of money. I don't know how much for sure but certainly in the millions of dollars. Just figure the retail price of videos..like those sold by Accu-Stats...say $20-25 per video for about 90 minutes of playing time. There are hundreds of hours of matchs and each video could, I assume, be expected to sell several thousand units per match. Do the math. (-:
Click to expand...

Like ESPN, cut footage and run. Run with the players getting no percentage of anything. hummmmmmmmmmm Sounds like an ESPN rerun eh?
 
jimmyg...Thanks for your kind remark. Your review of the nature of contingency fees is quite correct...except your experience differs from mine on the percentages.

My company initiated and prevailed via settlement in a very large karaoke copyright infringement action against two multi-billion dollar companies. I can't mention names due to a Confidentiality Agreement.

We had two co-defendants which, themselves, were multi-billion dollar companies. In that matter, wherein more than $7 million in settlement proceeds changed hands, the contingency fee was 30%.

Maybe I was an idiot for agreeing to that sum but counsel for the other co-plaintiffs...the names of which are household words in America were certainly well informed about the "going rate" for such cases.

In addition, please review the following...but please know that I am not arguing with you. I just think that any such fee percentage looms LARGE in the decision to sue vs. settle which is the topic of this thread.

Best regards,

Jim

Most jurisdictions in the United States prohibit working for a contingent fee in family law or criminal cases, as made clear in Rule 1.5(d) of the Model Rules of Professional Conduct of the American Bar Association.[1] In the United States, contingency fees are the standard in personal injury cases and are less common in other types of litigation. Fees range from 25% to 50% of the amount recovered, although 30-40% is the most common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_fee
 
av84fun said:
Timberly...<<what if A) they got a group of lawyers for free and B) those lawyers went after the "guaranteed" $100,000 that each player was to make in 2007 along with the Reno payments and the "bonus" from the DVD sales?>>

Lawyers for FREE?? In the United States?? Except for pro bono work for indigents and/or Public Defenders in criminal matters, do you know of any lawyers that will engage in a multi-year legal battle that will cost AT LEAST $200,000.00 worth of their time for free?

LOL
Click to expand...
I'm glad I was able to amuse you and give you a good laugh. All I can and will continue to do is report the things that are told to me. I have been in constant contact with some of the players involved in this and when one of them tells me that this service has been offered up at no charge, I believe them.

Look at it this way... going after and getting someone like KT... a guy despised by all the people he's scammed (natural cures books, & all the infomercials of the past) would be great exposure for someone. Just a thought... I personally have not spoken to the lawyers so I do not know what their actual reasons are, I just know what they've offered to do.
 
Island Drive...<<Like ESPN, cut footage and run. Run with the players getting no percentage of anything. hummmmmmmmmmm Sounds like an ESPN rerun eh?>>

I have not seen any contract the IPT had with the players and/or any other entities, so I have no idea what kind of deals were made regarding the video rights.

However, with respect to the WPBA events for example, ESPN does not pay a DIME to produce those programs. The video is shot by independent producers who are paid for their services by the WPBA. The "profit" to ESPN and the WPBA are eventually derived from ad revenue generated by the broadcasts.
Regards,
Jim
 
Timberly...<<I'm glad I was able to amuse you and give you a good laugh.>>

I certainly did not intend to ridicule you Timberly. I am on your side...and the player's side here. If there is actually an offer to prosecute a lawsuit for FREE (as opposed to a contingency fee) then I think that is wonderful. I will have to see that to believe it however, since there could easily be a miscommunication between the lawyers and the people who told you what they said.

In other words, the lawyer could have said..."I won't charge you an hourly fee, only a percentage of the amount won and will charge you nothing if we don't win."

I can imagine someone reporting that the lawyer says he/she won't charge a fee...and that being interpreted as saying the workd will be done for free.

I am NOT impugning anyone's credibility...and certainly not yours. I am only suggesting that people misinterpret what they are told and/or people who pass on second hand information can also misunderstand what they are being told.

But if there are lawyers who would take on what would be without question a VERY long and VERY expensive litigation for free...more power to the players!!!!

Regards,
Jim
 
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