Day Two recap

jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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Silver Member
Day One was bad but Day Two got ugly. Only Dennis Hatch showed up today, playing well with Billy Thorpe in the opening match. Even that one almost got away with USA losing a 4-1 lead and having it go 4-4. They pulled it out 5-4 with a gutty run out.

It was all downhill from there. Oscar jumping balls off the table and missing a straight in eight ball that would have made it 4-4. After that Team USA fell dead, winning a total of two games in the final three matches. They couldn't get out with wide open racks and got schooled in the safety battles. The negative energy just swept over them and their collective body language was shown by how they slumped in their chairs. Poor Skylar looked like he forgot how to play pool. All real pool players have had this experience and it's not much fun. You feel like you want to go hide somewhere.

Everyone on here seems to be spectulating about what's wrong with our team and what needs to be done. Personally I think the problem is between their ears! These guys all know how to play and are capable of executing any shot Europe can make. What separates great players from good players is the ability to execute under pressure. Europe has it and we don't. At least not in the Mosconi Cup we don't.

I want to close by saying that no matter what, credit must be given to the USA players for getting in the arena and doing battle. That alone takes courage. And it will take a lot of that to get out there and play tomorrow in what looks like a hopeless situation.
 
O

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
Day One was bad but Day Two got ugly. Only Dennis Hatch showed up today, playing well with Billy Thorpe in the opening match. Even that one almost got away with USA losing a 4-1 lead and having it go 4-4. They pulled it out 5-4 with a gutty run out.

It was all downhill from there. Oscar jumping balls off the table and missing a straight in eight ball that would have made it 4-4. After that Team USA fell dead, winning a total of two games in the final three matches. They couldn't get out with wide open racks and got schooled in the safety battles. The negative energy just swept over them and their collective body language was shown by how they slumped in their chairs. Poor Skylar looked like he forgot how to play pool. All real pool players have had this experience and it's not much fun. You feel like you want to go hide somewhere.

Everyone on here seems to be spectulating about what's wrong with our team and what needs to be done. Personally I think the problem is between their ears! These guys all know how to play and are capable of executing any shot Europe can make. What separates great players from good players is the ability to execute under pressure. Europe has it and we don't. At least not in the Mosconi Cup we don't.

I want to close by saying that no matter what, credit must be given to the USA players for getting in the arena and doing battle. That alone takes courage. And it will take a lot of that to get out there and play tomorrow in what looks like a hopeless situation.
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They are paid to play they have zero skin in the match so I just don't see it as courage by any stretch of the imagination..

1
 
C

Chitown54321

Registered
Nothing much to add after watching the implosions today...and last year...and the year before. Perhaps it is time to change how players are chosen for this high profile event.

Team Euro is playing with poise, enthusiasm, and incredible displays of skill which in turn is giving them an overwhelming sense of confidence.

Team USA, well, they are playing to NOT lose instead of showing the desire to win. At this point even SVB, considered by many to be the best US player, can't seem to find his killer gear and even if he could he is only 1 player on the team.

Say what you will about Filler specifically and some of the Euro team players in general they are just flat out better and deserve the kudos they are sure to receive.

Damn, I'd just like to see an MC be competitive at least.

Also, I liked the idea from Allison Fisher about having a female version of the MC since there are some incredible players who would, I think, make the matches more enjoyable.
 
Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Every year, for the last ten or so years, the U.S players forget how to play safe like they do in gambling and tournaments. They shoot at anything...like novice players do. Very few of them play even near there top gear at the MC. It's like someone else is in there body. Johnnyt
 
hotelyorba

hotelyorba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pocket said:
It’s all in their head. Right on point Jay.
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That has been the case in previous years too I think, and I really hoped Johan would clear that problem right up and create a real team here with confidence. That was what he supposedly had done with the European team in those 7 years he was captain there.

145352773316.jpg
 
sammylane12

sammylane12

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hotelyorba said:
That has been the case in previous years too I think, and I really hoped Johan would clear that problem right up and create a real team here with confidence. That was what he supposedly had done with the European team in those 7 years he was captain there.

145352773316.jpg
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I don`t believe the coach has a dam thing to do with it.
 
G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Octagon..........................

When the last 9rock drops lets set-up the cage and let our douche(Hatch) tee-it-up with their tool(Filler). I know it looks like a mismatch but after watching this debacle anything might happen.
 
pinkspider

pinkspider

Crap user name, I know.
Silver Member
He can’t make the team suddenly play better as everyone agrees there are deep set problems that will require plenty of fixing. What he can do is change the culture, instill good habits, a new way of thinking and set wheels for change in motion. So you’re looking at progress over the next couple of years. Not an instant turnaround. If they respect what he has to say, then yes he will make a difference. Just not instantly.
 
Dimeball

Dimeball

AzB Silver Member
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jay helfert said:
Day One was bad but Day Two got ugly. Only Dennis Hatch showed up today, playing well with Billy Thorpe in the opening match. Even that one almost got away with USA losing a 4-1 lead and having it go 4-4. They pulled it out 5-4 with a gutty run out.

It was all downhill from there. Oscar jumping balls off the table and missing a straight in eight ball that would have made it 4-4. After that Team USA fell dead, winning a total of two games in the final three matches. They couldn't get out with wide open racks and got schooled in the safety battles. The negative energy just swept over them and their collective body language was shown by how they slumped in their chairs. Poor Skylar looked like he forgot how to play pool. All real pool players have had this experience and it's not much fun. You feel like you want to go hide somewhere.

Everyone on here seems to be spectulating about what's wrong with our team and what needs to be done. Personally I think the problem is between their ears! These guys all know how to play and are capable of executing any shot Europe can make. What separates great players from good players is the ability to execute under pressure. Europe has it and we don't. At least not in the Mosconi Cup we don't.

I want to close by saying that no matter what, credit must be given to the USA players for getting in the arena and doing battle. That alone takes courage. And it will take a lot of that to get out there and play tomorrow in what looks like a hopeless situation.
Click to expand...
Probably should lock the US guys in a room for a week watching old reruns of the Archer/Strickland days when the US ruled this thing for over a decade. Maybe then these guys can learn how to win and stop hating money... jeez!
 
jeffj2h

jeffj2h

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Players (e.g. Daz) have said Johan is a master of understanding the psychology of each player and getting the best performance out of them. And we have evidence from interviews that both Johan (this year) and Mark (the previous 3 years) have shown the players structured practice routines (e.g. perform drills, practice the lag, Shane has shown them in detail how he breaks, etc.). But each year the USA players say things indicating they just now realize the value of structured practice.

So for 4 years we have had professional coaches, but I suspect the USA team does not do the year-around work it takes to be the best in the world.
 
jeffj2h

jeffj2h

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Oh to Jays point, because the USA players don’t put in the needed work year around, they struggle in the MC and during day 1 their confidence plummets.
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

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jeffj2h said:
Players (e.g. Daz) have said Johan is a master of understanding the psychology of each player and getting the best performance out of them. And we have evidence from interviews that both Johan (this year) and Mark (the previous 3 years) have shown the players structured practice routines (e.g. perform drills, practice the lag, Shane has shown them in detail how he breaks, etc.). But each year the USA players say things indicating they just now realize the value of structured practice.

So for 4 years we have had professional coaches, but I suspect the USA team does not do the year-around work it takes to be the best in the world.
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BINGO.
To be able to be coached, you must have a commitment to that coach and willing to listen and change, not just from October to December.

IMO When US players, after the Cup, immediately go to bar table tournaments and gambling on bar boxes, start rolling back the clock on all the hours they put in.

And then there is the mentality of the competition. If a shlub like me misses position on the 8 ball, I'm taking a flyer bank attempt to make it and get on the 9. And that's what a TON of players who are dead money in US tournaments do.
On the Euro tour, even the dead money play killer safes out of that situation (as Ralf did yesterday on Oscar, or Alcaide and his 3 safes on Oscar to make him kick at everything until an opening arrives).
 
iba7467

iba7467

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jay helfert said:
...I want to close by saying that no matter what, credit must be given to the USA players for getting in the arena and doing battle. That alone takes courage. And it will take a lot of that to get out there and play tomorrow in what looks like a hopeless situation.
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Courage and $10K for coming in second in a two team event. I appreciate your positive spin Jay, but these guys are not earning their pay. I do believe they deserve it for putting in the work in the tournament grind to qualify, but that does not excuse this level of play from almost all of them.

jeffj2h said:
Players (e.g. Daz) have said Johan is a master of understanding the psychology of each player and getting the best performance out of them. And we have evidence from interviews that both Johan (this year) and Mark (the previous 3 years) have shown the players structured practice routines (e.g. perform drills, practice the lag, Shane has shown them in detail how he breaks, etc.). But each year the USA players say things indicating they just now realize the value of structured practice.

So for 4 years we have had professional coaches, but I suspect the USA team does not do the year-around work it takes to be the best in the world.
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I had to revise my post after reading this as you stated it so clearly. Only one US player has played well (if even that) in the last three years. If we are to truly compete in this, see above quote.
 
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Nostroke

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I literally lasted under 5 minutes watching yesterday. I had the misfortune to tune in during the doubles w Shaw/Filler vs some American guys who weren't there.
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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Silver Member
pocket said:
It’s all in their head. Right on point Jay.[/QUOT

To elaborate on what happened to Skylar. It can happen to any pool player when they lose their confidence, becoming fearful and having performance anxiety. Your body goes numb and you can't feel anything when you get down to shoot. Every shot becomes a challenge, even the most simple ones. Momentarily you have literally forgotten how to play. It's like being temporarily paralyzed. Same reason that some people freeze up in a crises. I feel bad for Skylar that he had to experience this at the worst possible time. I had it happen to me before (playing Petey Margo) and just wanted the match to end.
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jalapus logan

jalapus logan

be all. and supports it to
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jay helfert said:
pocket said:
It’s all in their head. Right on point Jay.[/QUOT

To elaborate on what happened to Skylar. It can happen to any pool player when they lose confidence in themself. Your body goes numb and you can't feel anything when you get down to shoot. Every shot becomes a challenge, even the most simple ones. Momentarily you have literally forgotten how to play. It's like being temporarily paralyzed. Same reason that some people freeze up in a crises. I feel bad for Skylar that he had to experience that at the worst possible time. I had it happen to me before (playing Petey Margo) and I just wanted the match to end.
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I believe this analysis is legit. Even I have experienced this temporary pool aphasia (Imagine that, lol). Usually it happens during periods of minimal or poor practice. I really do think that our players just don't have sufficient training regimens like the Euros do.

In any event, it would sure be better if it were more competitive dammit!:eek:
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