Stance - Comfort vs. Effectiveness

Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fargo 1000 on VP4
Silver Member
I’ve found over the years that my most comfortable stance isn’t the one that’s most conducive to a naturally straight stroke perfectly in line with my sight line - for that I have to rotate my rear shoulder higher and farther back than its “natural” position, which shortens the amount of time I can play before fatigue and even soreness become issues.

Anybody else experience something like this? Do you think it’s common? Do you think it’s better to cope with discomfort for the stance that works best or to cope with imperfections for a more comfortable stance? Or should I take up badminton?

pj
chgo
 
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Low500 said:
I hate the snooker player stance...it hurts my back, my legs, my shoulder, my neck,..............but it sure helps to "shoot the eyes right off them balls".
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At my age (65), I couldn't play pool with this stance if my life depended on it. I just don't have the agility/range of motion in my neck anymore to crane it upwards far enough to see over my brow.

I'm no great player by any stretch of the imagination, but I've always just walked up to my shot, bent down as far as I comfortably can, low enough to be able to put equal weight on my two feet and bridge hand, and still be able to crane my neck high enough to get a clear picture of what I'm doing on the table. I don't even have to think about it anymore it is so "natural".

There are times when I get lazy or lose focus and have to step back and inward a tiny bit with my right leg to get my hip out of the way for proper stroking.
 
Absolutely. The stroke mechanics is also similar. No matter how you do it if you use muscles to draw the cue back before you follow through
the way the muscles are connected it will cause you to move sideways when you follow through unless you are real careful or very slow with your backswing.
That whole SPF stroke thing with the pause while in the back position fixes that but its hard to get used to.
I subscribe to doing what feels good but its good to know that if you pull the cue back to fast you're likely going sideways when you engage and go forward.
I didn't know I was doing this until I saw a video of me playing. I was making shots but man my stroke was doing things I didn't know about.
Fixing it is not a comfortable situation as you suggest.

Patrick Johnson said:
I’ve found over the years that my most comfortable stance isn’t the one that’s most conducive to a naturally straight stroke perfectly in line with my sight line - for that I have to rotate my rear shoulder higher and farther back than its “natural” position, which shortens the amount of time I can play before fatigue and even soreness become issues.

Anybody else experience something like this? Do you think it’s common? Do you think it’s better to cope with discomfort for the stance that works best or to cope with imperfections for a more comfortable stance? Or should I take up badminton?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
I’ve found over the years that my most comfortable stance isn’t the one that’s most conducive to a naturally straight stroke perfectly in line with my sight line - for that I have to rotate my rear shoulder higher and farther back than its “natural” position, which shortens the amount of time I can play before fatigue and even soreness become issues.

Anybody else experience something like this? Do you think it’s common? Do you think it’s better to cope with discomfort for the stance that works best or to cope with imperfections for a more comfortable stance? Or should I take up badminton?

pj
chgo
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I think this is a common problem. I also think different stances will offer more a of cost and benefit equation. That is to say, one stance might aid a sight line, but hamper a long free stroke, for example. Sometimes players do opt to accept the challenges of a particular stance, because they are happy with the results. Seems reasonable.

However, one downside, as I see it, to your situation, is that a shortened playing time makes winning tournaments harder, it makes winning gambling matches harder, and it makes accomplishing high runs harder. Maybe you are o.k. with that? If so, cool.

I do think there is merit to learning about your stance through the process of making and remaking it. I have attempted to copy the stance Mark Wilson advocates in his book Play Great Pool--expensive, but worth it.

However, what I have learned is that sometimes, while we intend one thing, we might end up doing something else. Have you recorded your stance, so you can see it while you play? I have recently changed my stance AGAIN, because of an observation a buddy made of me that was right on. It turns out, I wasn't doing what I thought I was doing, but it took a second knowledgeable pair of eyes to see that. Another option is to have someone whose knowledge you trust offer some suggestions if you are interested in changing your stance.

kollegedave
 
kollegedave said:
...one downside, as I see it, to your situation, is that a shortened playing time makes winning tournaments harder, it makes winning gambling matches harder, and it makes accomplishing high runs harder. Maybe you are o.k. with that? If so, cool.
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You're right about that. I'm not OK with it, but I'm less OK with not playing my best. I'm thinking I need to get in better shape (thinking it is enough, right? :)).

pj
chgo
 
I was taken aback that it was the original PJ posting.

I set my stick down on line and then set up to my stick. My stance could probably be a hair more stable but it allows a clean stroke.

As I learned in golf a long time ago, it isn't important the movements you make, it's most important the movement the club makes.
 
The first six months I played I used an open bridge. A lot of the good players at the rec center -- guys who could run three and four balls at a time -- used a closed bridge, but I felt I could do any shot they could with my bridge.

Then I got "Winning Pocket Billiards" and Willie was quite insistent about the closed bridge. I made a closed bridge just like Willie's (as opposed to the unstable, floppy monstrosities that most players today think are closed bridges) and started using it exclusively.

For the first two weeks my hand hurt like someone had been hitting it with a hammer. Then my hand figured out that Bob wasn't going to pay any attention to it so it stopped hurting. That was before I even knew how to spell RSI. Amazingly, I have not had any problems with it. On the other hand (pun obviously intended), mousing in PhotoShop did give me RSI and that took 6-8 months to get over.

So.... I'm in the camp that thinks "just do what feels good" is bad advice. If your mechanics are not meeting the goal -- like guiding the front of the stick accurately -- then you have to try something else that is more effective even if it is uncomfortable at first.

As for PJ's specific comfort problem, I have something similar now. On some shots I really need to get my head as low as possible -- chin on stick or as close as possible -- to see the shot well. My neck and shoulders can't stand to do that on every shot, so I reserve that stance for special occasions.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
I’ve found over the years that my most comfortable stance isn’t the one that’s most conducive to a naturally straight stroke perfectly in line with my sight line - for that I have to rotate my rear shoulder higher and farther back than its “natural” position, which shortens the amount of time I can play before fatigue and even soreness become issues.

Anybody else experience something like this? Do you think it’s common? Do you think it’s better to cope with discomfort for the stance that works best or to cope with imperfections for a more comfortable stance? Or should I take up badminton?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...


PJ- it's possible you're standing with your hips too closed to the target line. If you open them up a bit, it might help.

My stance feels comfortable and I would not want to contort myself to play. I have no back or shoulder pain soreness and I can play for many hours without issue.

I made these changes years ago at the advice of an instructor and it helped me:

- I opened up my hips more to the target line which relieved some tension in the shoulders and allowed more body clearance for a straight stroke.

- I balanced my weight between my feet, so that no weight was on the bridge hand. You should be able to lift your bridge at any time without shifting weight.

- I moved my head rearward (toward the butt end of the cue) to see a longer shaft for aiming. I like the head back on the cue for long shots.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The first six months I played I used an open bridge. A lot of the good players at the rec center -- guys who could run three and four balls at a time -- used a closed bridge, but I felt I could do any shot they could with my bridge.

Then I got "Winning Pocket Billiards" and Willie was quite insistent about the closed bridge. I made a closed bridge just like Willie's (as opposed to the unstable, floppy monstrosities that most players today think are closed bridges) and started using it exclusively.

For the first two weeks my hand hurt like someone had been hitting it with a hammer. Then my hand figured out that Bob wasn't going to pay any attention to it so it stopped hurting. That was before I even knew how to spell RSI. Amazingly, I have not had any problems with it. On the other hand (pun obviously intended), mousing in PhotoShop did give me RSI and that took 6-8 months to get over.

So.... I'm in the camp that thinks "just do what feels good" is bad advice. If your mechanics are not meeting the goal -- like guiding the front of the stick accurately -- then you have to try something else that is more effective even if it is uncomfortable at first.

As for PJ's specific comfort problem, I have something similar now. On some shots I really need to get my head as low as possible -- chin on stick or as close as possible -- to see the shot well. My neck and shoulders can't stand to do that on every shot, so I reserve that stance for special occasions.
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I feel ya about getting low - definitely a use-as-needed position. As for the overall stance, I'm willing to take some mild discomfort to play my best - and it gets easier.

pj
chgo
 
Bob Jewett said:
So.... I'm in the camp that thinks "just do what feels good" is bad advice.
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It's terrible advice.

And it's given here quite often.

A stance should be comfortable, but it should also be efficient. I see a lot of people say the snooker stance isn't very comfortable for them. I get that, if they have bad knees or a bad back. But I'd bet 9 times out of 10, they are just doing it incorrectly.

When done right, a snooker stance is just as comfortable as any pool stance.
 
TATE said:
PJ- it's possible you're standing with your hips too closed to the target line. If you open them up a bit, it might help.

My stance feels comfortable and I would not want to contort myself to play. I have no back or shoulder pain soreness and I can play for many hours without issue.

I made these changes years ago at the advice of an instructor and it helped me:

- I opened up my hips more to the target line which relieved some tension in the shoulders and allowed more body clearance for a straight stroke
Click to expand...
I’ve tried more open and closed hip positions and gravitate toward more clearance too.

- I balanced my weight between my feet, so that no weight was on the bridge hand. You should be able to lift your bridge at any time without shifting weight.
Click to expand...
I still have to remind myself not to lean on my bridge hand.

- I moved my head rearward (toward the butt end of the cue) to see a longer shaft for aiming. I like the head back on the cue for long shots.
Click to expand...
Not sure how to do that, but I do try to see as much of the stick as possible.

Thanks for the tips!

pj
chgo.
 
The best stance is the snooker stance.

I used to play with a typical (bad) pool stance, wich very comfortable, but not really effective.

Then I started the snooker stance. Took time to get used to the tension on my calves. But how boy, the snooker stance is the king.
 
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