A Player's Union - Is this a Good Idea?

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I know I’m putting my head on the chopping block, but I think it is time that I considered the matter of whether the formation of a player’s union in pool is an idea whose time has come or something that is impracticable at this undeniable hinge of times in our sport.

The theoretical argument in favor of having a players union is obvious, and seems almost unworthy of mention. On the surface, it is as simple as the seemingly incontrovertible concept that there is strength in numbers.

The truth, however, is that a union must have a clear mission into which most of its members have bought, a common vision among its members, to thrive. Without this, a union will not know what to seek, what to accept, what to repel, what principles to stand for, and what the milestones are on its road to achieving its goals. In the absence of unity of purpose, the principle of strength in numbers can, so easily, give way to the equally accepted notion that “too many cooks spoil the broth.”

The IPT, in hindsight, offered players a chance to get rich quick and who can blame any of them for biting. As Blackjack Dave often pointed out, however, it was hardly the mission of the IPT to grow the sport, a conclusion strongly supported by the IPT’s choice to distance itself from, and occasionally mock, every organization concerned with the overall growth and well-being of our sport.

The only basis on which one could have possibly presumed that the riches of the IPT might somehow stimulate growth in the sport is what most Americans call one of three things: 1) “trickle down” economics, 2) supply side economics, or 3) Reaganomics (a catch-all term for the economic policies of Ronald Reagan’s administration in the 1980’s). The philosophical basis of these approaches, which repulsed so many back then, was that making the rich richer would result in economic investment that would ultimately enrich all others in the economy.

Many embraced the “trickle down” notion, but the stark reality is that nothing trickled down even when the IPT was solvent. On the contrary, far too many poolroom owners and numerous other proprietors in the pool industry that became associated with the IPT got burned.

Would a players union have evaluated the advisability of signing up with an organization that was, in the eyes of so many, attempting a hostile takeover of the sport? I truly doubt it, because players were so fixated on the riches of the IPT that any potential incongruities between the goals of the players union and those of the IPT would probably have been overlooked.

I believe that the formation of a players union must be preceded by the establishment of a meaningful mission and purpose of the players, a vision and plan to grow and advance their sport. It is far more difficult than it sounds, but it is the challenge of the moment for pro pool players everywhere. Right now, I still see far too many in the pro pool community struggling to come to a meaningful vision for the sport.

It is time for the players to get on the same page, and the fact that a union is forming must not be misconstrued as evidencing a unity of purpose among pro pool players. From my vantage point, the principle that “misery loves company” has been the catalyst that has led to the formation of a union. If this union is to have any positive impact at all, its theme must become “developing a vision and a means of attaining it is urgent.”

After long consideration of the matter, I have concluded that the formation of a players union is well-timed, but the players will need to pull together if they are to make it work.
 
Very insightful post sjm!

You're spot on that achieving an effective union is a difficult task, imho.

I'd like to directly answer the question you posted, "A Player's Union - Is this a Good Idea?"

My first thought is that forming a union is much like forming a government. A government as a tool can prove useful, but by its formation there are many tendencies for it to become tyranical and destructive. It can only be kept in measure by a diligent and wise citizenry.

The same is true of groups of people, or workers forming associations and unions. They tend toward corruptability and inefficiency. The larger they get, the stronger is that tendency, as the members become less connected to the machinations of the organization.

Based on my understanding of the nature of organizations and their historical development, I would tend toward a preference for an anarchical structure (that is, a bunch of individuals making their own choices) over a centralized (monopolistic) representation. A middle ground might be the formation of multiple smaller organizations, that may sometimes agree to cooperate. A kind of free market in representation.

Here were a few points I made in another thread, that relate to some of the negative tendencies of unionization:
1. Good representation requires an effective inter-communication method, which is hard to achieve.
2. Those who seek power, and who would benefit by it in their own interests would be attracted to representative positions.
3. Representation (or unionism) without granted powers from the government is almost powerless. And I would not want immoral laws, such as those that currently protect most unions, supporting such a player's union.
4. Unionized members increase the price of entry into an entrepreneur's business model, hence decreasing their incentive to enter into it.
5. Unionized members have an incentive to restrict membership to potential future members.

So personally, I think the worst thing for the sport of billiards would be the forming of a powerful international union of players, connected to various national organizations, such as seems to be the intended goal of the World Confederation of Billiard Sports.

This organization, should it achieve its goal of gaining admission into the Olympic Games, could then be empowered such that many more of its national member bodies would seek out and achieve government support and alliance and to develop a growing monopolistic strangle-hold over the development of the game.

Such a development might protect the players from the odd shoddy entrepreneur, but it would also prevent many potential entrepreneurs from being able to test new ideas on the market.

So in conclusion, let me say that representation of groups of players can be a good idea I believe, but to be effective, the members and founders of such an organization need to be well informed and have intelligent goals.

The subject goes quite deep, as it should do. One should compare such a goal to the formation of a government, hence reading through the federalist papers might be a useful method of estimating the complexity of such a discussion, and the difficulty regarding achieving an intended goal regarding the formation of an effective union of players.

Colin
 
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To sjm and Colin thank you both for your insight and well thought out posts.
Hopefully the players are listening to what you both have to say.

Steve
 
It seems to me that the mention of a "players union" has brought images of multi-national trade unions to mind. Rather, it should bring to mind an image of an association of professional individuals. An excellent model for this might be the PGA. It was formed from existing touring and tournament players at a time when there were a fair number of independant tournaments ... strong parallels to the current situation in pool.

Now some direct comments to Colins thoughts :

1 Most things that are worthwhile are 'difficult to achieve', and this should never be an excuse for not proceding.

2 Yes, but the members would still have to vote them in (assuming a democratic model).

3 What government granted powers would they need ? The power they have is the classic "strength in numbers", whereby they could boycott events that do not meet the standards they set (as an example, the standard could be to pay out at least the top 25%, and they might frown on a tournament that pays out only the top 5%).

4 This seems to be an arguement based on the common thinking that a unionized labour force is more expensive than a non-unionized labour force, which is irrelevant to a professional association like the PGA.

5 There must be governance controls over the association to ensure a fair criteria for membership.

Dave, all for a professional pool players association
 
DaveK said:
It seems to me that the mention of a "players union" has brought images of multi-national trade unions to mind. Rather, it should bring to mind an image of an association of professional individuals. An excellent model for this might be the PGA. It was formed from existing touring and tournament players at a time when there were a fair number of independant tournaments ... strong parallels to the current situation in pool.

Now some direct comments to Colins thoughts :

1 Most things that are worthwhile are 'difficult to achieve', and this should never be an excuse for not proceding.

2 Yes, but the members would still have to vote them in (assuming a democratic model).

3 What government granted powers would they need ? The power they have is the classic "strength in numbers", whereby they could boycott events that do not meet the standards they set (as an example, the standard could be to pay out at least the top 25%, and they might frown on a tournament that pays out only the top 5%).

4 This seems to be an arguement based on the common thinking that a unionized labour force is more expensive than a non-unionized labour force, which is irrelevant to a professional association like the PGA.

5 There must be governance controls over the association to ensure a fair criteria for membership.

Dave, all for a professional pool players association
Dave,
I think you've done a good job of narrowing a larger perspective into a realistic picture of what could be done.

I'm all for looking into case studies of other player associations and how they developed. The strengths and weaknesses of various organizational structures, who they benefited and which parties were not happy with certain developments.

Another case study worth analysis would be that of the WPBSA.

A Related Story on the Develoment of Snooker
my own attempt at historical revisionism

In the early days of snooker in England, around 1968, a professional player's association was formed, called the World Proffesional Billiards and Snooker Association (WPBSA).

During the sport's rise in popularity in the 60's and 70's, the association's small membership became quite successful. Naturally, there was an incentive for the members to keep most of the benefits to themselves, so hundreds of aspiring professionals were pretty much kept out of the loop. It was very difficult for many years for a good player to make his mark and enter the organization. At least to any level that provided reasonable financial rewards.

In order to keep control of the organization as its business expanded and became more complex, the members resisted bringing in professional experts of sports management and marketing to to positions that would require the power to restructure the organization.

Gradually, after some poor business management and some lawsuit debacles, they headed toward bankruptcy. The attempted cure has been to decrease the power of the democratic type system of members in decision making and to defer more powers to the management of some newly employed management executives in order to modernize the organization for current market needs.

That is, the relative strength of the association of players had proven to create resistance to optimal growth of the sport.
......

So, back to the topic, I'm still of the opinion that an association of players may at times be necessary, but that it is not likely to ever be the main driver of the sport. That in fact, if not developed intellegently, it could cause considerable dampening to the effectiveness of the sport's future growth.

I would certainly support a group of players from the IPT getting together to back a representative that could collectively arbitrate with the IPT.

However, I am sceptical that should an association of players expand to much larger sizes, that it would provide many benefits, and in fact, may cause considerable harm.

I'm would certainly like to get more ideas from case studies of other comparative associations though.

One more thought: At the moment, the WPA and UPA are perhaps the closest things we have to a pro players association. If their raison detre was in fact to support their members, many of whom participated in the IPT, then I wonder if they did not take their opportunity to act positively on the players' behalfs during the IPT's development, by providing insightful advice to those players.

Instead, the WPA seemed to take the approach that as the IPT didn't play by their rules, then their job was to attack the IPT. If they'd have offered advice to the players, perhaps suggested a representative to help them with collective bargaining or just the fulfillment of contracts, then perhaps the players would have gotten behind them. Instead the players were left to their own devices.

Hence, I tend to be sceptical that a large players organization could be developed that is truly capable of benefitting, or even attracting all the players.

He who pays the piper pretty much calls the tunes, and there's not much that a players association can do to change this unless they gain powers afforded by the state. Though, they may provide an effective check on dubious operators.

So I'd suggest if some players did back a representative, that it should be someone preferably with experience in sports business and in the forming of legally binding and effective contracts that could help to ensure that the players were in fact getting the deal to which they were agreeing.

Perhaps if such a representative performed such functions efficiently, without bringing unneeded barriers to well intended event entrepreneurs, then a healthy association could grow.

Just some scattered ramblings:D
I've very much on a learning curve with this, as I'm sure are most players. I appreciate all perspectives that can allow those interested to form clearer and better ideas.

Colin
 
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Thoughts ...

I do not think a 'Players union' would fly, there are jsut so many obstacles that would have to be conquered for it to be solid and effective.

I would opt more for a 'Professional Players' association that ascribed to the highest standards of play, with well defined goals in place. Although there are many pros who we might look up to, fact is, most would not be
'qualified' from a business point of view of running such an organization.

Therefore, I think that a small board of advisories should be appointed to oversee the association (3-5 people, a legal expert, sports expert, business expert, and maybe 2 more). Anyone participating in this association MUST HAVE a vested interest in Pocket Billiards.

The association should not only conduct current business and future business, but should be required to objectively measure their performance against the goals that were set for the association. After all, actions speak louder than dreams .... (something other Billiards organizations need to read).

Offhand, I would like to see USA players at the heart of the association, and names like Tony Robles, Johnny Archer, and Gabe Owen come to mind.

The association would be a model organization for all Pool players, and they would have to take an oath to uphold the highest standards of the sport. (Much like when I was the Payroll Supervisor for Learjet, and was a
member of the Professional Payroll Association.)

Such an organization can do a lot both for the players and for promoters of the sport, to ensure fairness for both parties, and to help elevate the sport to a true professional level.

Just my thoughts on the subject....;)
 
DaveK said:
It seems to me that the mention of a "players union" has brought images of multi-national trade unions to mind. Rather, it should bring to mind an image of an association of professional individuals. An excellent model for this might be the PGA. It was formed from existing touring and tournament players at a time when there were a fair number of independant tournaments ... strong parallels to the current situation in pool.

Wrong, the PGA is not an excellent model to compare a Pool Players Association/Federation/Council/Union, whatever you may want to call it.

The first thing that does not compare is the "social status" of the players. We have a bunch of "rich/elite" people playing Pro golf, with money to "throw around" and time to "toy with board meetings", contact their other rich friends for tour sponsorships, etc.

You hardly see any "society" member pulling for the pool players, or trying to get sponsorships for tournaments, etc. You know why? Because Pool/Billiards is not associated with the "high-life" in practically the entire World. Everyone sees pool/billiards as an "obscure" game.

Pool/Billiards as a sport, and pool/billiard players in general, will never obtain or achieve comparison whatsoever, with any of the other sports as we all know today. "Darkness" is always looming against our kind (pool players), and it seems we will never see the "Light of the Day" while we keep thinking more about our own well-being (money in my pocket at whatever cost) than for the well-being of all the participates of our beloved sport. You see, pool players see all adversaries as enemies of the "State" (my pocket) instead of partners in an association for the betterment of our sport.

Any type of organization, doesn't matter what, will fail miserably unless you have the perfect by-laws, members, and leadership. Something most difficult to achieve, no matter the best intentions anyone could bring to the new, old, or established organizations.
 
Dr. Dissent said:
The first thing that does not compare is the "social status" of the players. We have a bunch of "rich/elite" people playing Pro golf, with money to "throw around" and time to "toy with board meetings", contact their other rich friends for tour sponsorships, etc.

While the game of golf was historically a game of the rich (in the USA anyway), I'm not so sure that the pro golfers of the 1890 - 1920 era were as you describe. As the 'tour' developed there were lots of pro's living out of their cars and missing meals as a result of a poor showing. Anyway, the comparison is sound from the standpoint of an organisation, its governance, and what affect it could have on the sport. It's not just rich people who deserve unions (say WHAT :confused: ? ) :D

On the other hand, if professional pool players decide that they have no time to "toy with board meetings" then they have no time to improve their lot in life. If they are not willing to invest time, effort, and perhaps even a bit of money, then they don't deserve much back from the game. If they want to maximize their return from the game then they will have to learn to live with this type of overhead.

Dave
 
If the IPT were to put together a schedule for 2007, do you really believe KT would even recognize any Union or Association? Would the players ban together, make demands of the IPT, and stand their ground? My guess is it would be about 50-50. If this happens, the walls will come tumbling down.
The players need outside help in order to organise either a Union or some sort of association. They need someone who speaks the language and is not afraid of bargaining and the confrontation that comes with it. Todays business world is much too complicated for the Players alone to comprehend. They need help. In no way do I suggest that there aren't players who couldn't handle this, but in todays world, it is very difficult to concentrate on the game and the business. JMO.
 
DaveK said:
While the game of golf was historically a game of the rich (in the USA anyway), I'm not so sure that the pro golfers of the 1890 - 1920 era were as you describe. As the 'tour' developed there were lots of pro's living out of their cars and missing meals as a result of a poor showing. Anyway, the comparison is sound from the standpoint of an organisation, its governance, and what affect it could have on the sport. It's not just rich people who deserve unions (say WHAT :confused: ? ) :D

On the other hand, if professional pool players decide that they have no time to "toy with board meetings" then they have no time to improve their lot in life. If they are not willing to invest time, effort, and perhaps even a bit of money, then they don't deserve much back from the game. If they want to maximize their return from the game then they will have to learn to live with this type of overhead.

Dave

Dave, my remarks are considering "today's" scenario, not yesteryear's, and I am in no way saying that rich people deserve unions. I am saying that organizations, in which rich people are members, have much more understanding about how to conduct business, obtain whatever benefits, and establish governing rules. Most of the time, in the "rich people's" organization, they work collectively to obtain the most benefits for "all their members" since there are in the same collective group/class/status. Most of them "don't care" to shell out a "few bucks" to make their organization work.

On the other hand, the "status" in whole of the pool players cannot compare with the golf players (present day). Most probably because of the stigma, the nature of the game (mostly gambling) and all the horror stories known to those associated to pool/billiards, among many other prejudices, etc. It is difficult to promote our sport specially because of the history of pool.

I have really never heard of a golf organization not paying their players, or making promises of huge prize funds and not obtaining proper sponsorships. In pool, players are really the ones putting the money up-front, funding the tournament, with some venues putting some "added money" which is really not much.

In pool, the prize money is divided (at least) among a quarter of the field, thus "thinning" the amount of money to be handed out. I have never heard about a golf tournament with 256 players, vying for the 1st prize money.

Therefore, and in essence, it is very difficult to model a pool players organization on what the PGA has done, or the way/manner they handle thier business. It is much more complex, considering the number of players in any given continent or country. In addition, the composition/content of many of the by-laws, rules, and constitution for any billiard organization, is already established by the governing bodies which are "approved" by the governing bodies before any new organization is accepted. These rules, by-laws, and constitutions, add an additional burden to the "organizational board" because they are required to abide by established regulations/requirements which might or might not be popular, or make sense to board members, or regular members not involved at this level.

In addition, you would need a group of persons really interested in putting up with "hard hours of work", reading, interpretation, application, and deciding what would be best for everyone. This is always difficult when working with people of different backgrounds, whatever, that might be.

Now, I have to recognize that some of our posters have the best intentions to help out on this situation with the IPT, and some of the suggestions are reasonable/feasible. That's OK but it is still not as easy as people may think.

Another factor is that "history" on organizations tend to repeat themselves. They start strong, but at the end disolve themselves because of clashes, conflicts of interest, personal gain and power-trips, within and outside the organizations.

Therefore, some experienced pool players know what has happened in the past 30 years, and may be reluctant to give it another try. Now, this is where the younger generations may have to come into the "scenario"; give it a try themselves, possibly with "advice" from the older generation, which in turn could also bring "clashes" between the 2 groups.

Anyway, I hope not to have "bored" you with this "rationale" about the difference between a "pool players organization" and the PGA.
 
Dr. Dissent said:
Dave, my remarks are considering "today's" scenario, not yesteryear's, .....

On the other hand, the "status" in whole of the pool players cannot compare with the golf players (present day).

This is our fundamental failure-to-communicate. You MUST compare pool of today with golf of around 1900. You must start at the beginning. Pool has little or no pro-player organisation TODAY. Golf had no pro-player organisation in the 1900's. The process they followed is a reasonable model.

Dr. Dissent said:
In pool, the prize money is divided (at least) among a quarter of the field, thus "thinning" the amount of money to be handed out. I have never heard about a golf tournament with 256 players, vying for the 1st prize money.

Golf tournaments can start out quite large, in the 150 entries range. Although I'm not sure why this matters.

Dr. Dissent said:
Therefore, and in essence, it is very difficult to model a pool players organization on what the PGA has done, or the way/manner they handle thier business. It is much more complex, considering the number of players in any given continent or country. In addition, the composition/content of many of the by-laws, rules, and constitution for any billiard organization, is already established by the governing bodies which are "approved" by the governing bodies before any new organization is accepted. These rules, by-laws, and constitutions, add an additional burden to the "organizational board" because they are required to abide by established regulations/requirements which might or might not be popular, or make sense to board members, or regular members not involved at this level.

This would be a new venture, with new bylaws etc. The existing ones do not seem to work.

Dr. Dissent said:
In addition, you would need a group of persons really interested in putting up with "hard hours of work", reading, interpretation, application, and deciding what would be best for everyone. This is always difficult when working with people of different backgrounds, whatever, that might be.

Like I said, if pro pool players are not willing to invest in improving their lot, they won't. You reap what you sow. If they sow nothing, that's what they will get.

Dr. Dissent said:
Another factor is that "history" on organizations tend to repeat themselves. They start strong, but at the end disolve themselves because of clashes, conflicts of interest, personal gain and power-trips, within and outside the organizations.

This might be the best arguement FOR using the PGA as a model. They were founded in 1916, and are stonger today than anytime in the past.

Dr. Dissent said:
Anyway, I hope not to have "bored" you with this "rationale" about the difference between a "pool players organization" and the PGA.

Not at all. I hope you are starting to understand the similarities now.

Dave
 
ironman said:
If the IPT were to put together a schedule for 2007, do you really believe KT would even recognize any Union or Association? Would the players ban together, make demands of the IPT, and stand their ground? My guess is it would be about 50-50. If this happens, the walls will come tumbling down.
The players need outside help in order to organise either a Union or some sort of association. They need someone who speaks the language and is not afraid of bargaining and the confrontation that comes with it. Todays business world is much too complicated for the Players alone to comprehend. They need help. In no way do I suggest that there aren't players who couldn't handle this, but in todays world, it is very difficult to concentrate on the game and the business. JMO.
Well said Ironman. The players are the least qualified to head up a professional organization. I don't even know if the person heading it needs to know that much about pool. But he does need to know integrity and even handedness. The question is, if somebody like this comes along, will the players turn loose of the reigns?
 
What is the UPA doing?

Anything? Shouldn't the UPA take hold of this situation and turn themselves into something helpful to the players at this point? They dont seem to be doing much else so why not? Or are they involved and i just don't know it?
 
Nostroke said:
Anything? Shouldn't the UPA take hold of this situation and turn themselves into something helpful to the players at this point? They dont seem to be doing much else so why not? Or are they involved and i just don't know it?

I'm not sure whehter the UPA should feel any such obligation.

Nonetheless, though far too many fail to understand the extent and quality of his contributions and leadership, I feel quite certain that Charlie Williams will figure prominently in unifying the players and helping them to move forward after the IPT episode is behind them.
 
sjm said:
I'm not sure whehter the UPA should feel any such obligation.

Nonetheless, though far too many fail to understand the extent and quality of his contributions and leadership, I feel quite certain that Charlie Williams will figure prominently in unifying the players and helping them to move forward after the IPT episode is behind them.
SJM, you might already know this but the wording in your post leads me to believe that you might not...

Frank Alvarez is the new owner of the UPA and Charlie Williams is no longer affiliated with the UPA. From what I understand, Dragon Promotions will of course host some UPA events but Charlies only involvement will be as a promoter, just like Allen Hopkins or any other promotor that hosts a UPA sanctioned event. :)
 
Timberly said:
SJM, you might already know this but the wording in your post leads me to believe that you might not...

Frank Alvarez is the new owner of the UPA and Charlie Williams is no longer affiliated with the UPA. From what I understand, Dragon Promotions will of course host some UPA events but Charlies only involvement will be as a promoter, just like Allen Hopkins or any other promotor that hosts a UPA sanctioned event. :)

Thanks for the wake up call, my friend. I had heard this before but, as you can see, it slipped my mind.

Still, I'll stand by the statement that Charlie Williams will figure prominently in the revitalization of our sport once the IPT cloud lifts. As a likely business affiliate of the UPA, and independent event promoter, and as a Brunswick player representative, he is well-positioned to continue to play a leadership role in the sport.

Finally, good luck to Frank Alvarez and the UPA.
 
sjm said:
I'm not sure whehter the UPA should feel any such obligation.

Nonetheless, though far too many fail to understand the extent and quality of his contributions and leadership, I feel quite certain that Charlie Williams will figure prominently in unifying the players and helping them to move forward after the IPT episode is behind them.


What obligation are you not sure about? A Players Association (the only one i know of) should not feel obligated to be useful? If they are not obligated to help at this time, I cant imagine anyone paying dues anytime soon.
 
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