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Domed Washers
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Domed Washers - 12-18-2006, 09:18 AM

I'm putting a Brunswick Centennial back together and I'm short 6 of the domed star washers that connect the table to the rail. Anyone know where I can purchase these?

Any help would be appreciated.
  
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Domed washers - 12-18-2006, 01:37 PM

Muellers,

http://www.poolndarts.com/p-5163-Crown-Lock-Washer/

This is where I buy from. They have the good ones in stock. Let me know where you are, if you are close to me, you could just pick some up. I am in Southern Ca.

Steve

Last edited by Tablemechanic; 12-18-2006 at 01:39 PM.
  
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12-18-2006, 01:44 PM

If not locally, you'd find them at any large, internet fastener house. Funny you should mention, but when I sold my GCI a few years back, I kept the dome washer (heavy duty) replacing the comparatively weak ones supplied with my then new Diamond Pro. Also kept the bridge racks.
  
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12-18-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rikdee
If not locally, you'd find them at any large, internet fastener house. Funny you should mention, but when I sold my GCI a few years back, I kept the dome washer (heavy duty) replacing the comparatively weak ones supplied with my then new Diamond Pro. Also kept the bridge racks.
(heavy duty) or over kill...LOL I use a 3/8" torque wrench and tighten the Diamond rail bolts to 18ft lbs, Brunswick's I only tighten to 15ft lbs. Never have I yet to see one of these "weak" Diamond star washers crush...LOL Not giving you a hard time but, how tight do you have to tighten rail bolts to get the rails tight? I bet you don't use a torque wrench...hehe.


Glen
  
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12-18-2006, 05:37 PM

"Muellers,
This is where I buy from. They have the good ones in stock. Let me know where you are, if you are close to me, you could just pick some up. I am in Southern Ca."

Thanks for the feed back. It looks like Mueller's might work. I should have mentioned that these are 1 3/8" O.D. with a 3/8" bolt hole.

I'm sure I'll have several more questions with this project. Its great to have a place to go to get answers. Your help is appreciated.
  
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12-19-2006, 04:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra
(heavy duty) or over kill...LOL I use a 3/8" torque wrench and tighten the Diamond rail bolts to 18ft lbs, Brunswick's I only tighten to 15ft lbs. Never have I yet to see one of these "weak" Diamond star washers crush...LOL Not giving you a hard time but, how tight do you have to tighten rail bolts to get the rails tight? I bet you don't use a torque wrench...hehe.


Glen

Not giving you a hard time but, where in the Diamond Billiard assembly directions does it give a torque specification other than "Tighten Securely"?
  
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12-19-2006, 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetardo
Not giving you a hard time but, where in the Diamond Billiard assembly directions does it give a torque specification other than "Tighten Securely"?
LOL..I was expecting this reply...LMAO Diamond, nor any other Mfg says anything about torque for rail bolts, other than "Tighten Securely" BUT...I'm the one that first told, then showed Diamond about torquing rail bolts for 2 reasons. (1) If torqued to a specific tightness, rail bolts won't fall out later. (2) Putting a number on "Tighten Securely" with the use of a torque wrench would avoid damaging the rail bold inserts thereby damaging the rails. In all the years that I've been recovering pool tables, I've always used a torque wrench...sorry.

PS. On Global rails, I only tighten the rail bolts to 10ft lbs because they use a threaded flat plate held in by wood screws mounted just below flush. If tightened any more than that, you'll end up pulling out the wood screws, then what good would that do to secure the rails to the slates. Almost all rail bolts are of 3/8" in thickness, BUT, not all rails are built the same. 10 people will have 10 different degrees of tightness on the same table...unless they use a torque wrench....then everyone's the same...wouldn't you agree?

Last edited by realkingcobra; 12-19-2006 at 09:18 AM.
  
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12-19-2006, 10:07 AM

Glen,
A reasonably applied hand torque has always served me well. My present D/P has been in service for seven years without any perceptible degradation in playability. One of my successes has been the use of a brush-on thread compound designed for use with high vibration machinery. All levelling and rail bolts on my table are applied with this material. Bolt back-out is completely eliminated yet the bolts are easily removed when necessary and the compound remains usable for the re-install. I would very much recommend such an application for tables are to remain set-up for the long term.
Rick
  
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12-19-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rikdee
Glen,
A reasonably applied hand torque has always served me well. My present D/P has been in service for seven years without any perceptible degradation in playability. One of my successes has been the use of a brush-on thread compound designed for use with high vibration machinery. All levelling and rail bolts on my table are applied with this material. Bolt back-out is completely eliminated yet the bolts are easily removed when necessary and the compound remains usable for the re-install. I would very much recommend such an application for tables are to remain set-up for the long term.
Rick
Rick,
I know what you're talking about, but the problem that I've encountered is the 18 volt drills used today. I've just seen to many people abuse the rail bolts on tables with these drills. Normally I recommend a torque wrench to those who don't have the common sense to know when enough is enough for tighten bolts, or not enough in some cases as well.

Glen

PS. It's been my experience in the past, as I'm sure yours as well. The most destructive person to the underside of a pool table is not the customers that use them, it's the amateur billiards technicians that have worked on them in the past. To many times I've had to replace broken off, stripped, cross threaded, to long, to short...bolts, not to mention inserts, nut plates, t-nuts and missing bolts, that has had nothing to do with the customers that play pool on the tables.
  
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12-19-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra
Rick,
I know what you're talking about, but the problem that I've encountered is the 18 volt drills used today. I've just seen to many people abuse the rail bolts on tables with these drills. Normally I recommend a torque wrench to those who don't have the common sense to know when enough is enough for tighten bolts, or not enough in some cases as well.

Glen

PS. It's been my experience in the past, as I'm sure yours as well. The most destructive person to the underside of a pool table is not the customers that use them, it's the amateur billiards technicians that have worked on them in the past. To many times I've had to replace broken off, stripped, cross threaded, to long, to short...bolts, not to mention inserts, nut plates, t-nuts and missing bolts, that has had nothing to do with the customers that play pool on the tables.


As accurate as you may think a torque wrench is, they are only as accurate as the operator. What formula did you use to adjust the setting for each inch of extension you used? I can name 10-12 variables that can all throw off a torque reading 10-20% but I'm guessing you take all of those factors in to your equation before applying a torque wrench, right?
  
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12-19-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetardo
As accurate as you may think a torque wrench is, they are only as accurate as the operator. What formula did you use to adjust the setting for each inch of extension you used? I can name 10-12 variables that can all throw off a torque reading 10-20% but I'm guessing you take all of those factors in to your equation before applying a torque wrench, right?
You know what, you're right, but if a torque wrench is used as it's designed to be used...it's accurate. We're not talking about lug nuts here, or head bolts on an engine. We're talking about rail bolts for pool tables. Whereas in this industry...there is NO formula of tightness for rail bolts...so any attempt at being consistent when tightening rail bolts......is a good thing.....right? I mean, think about it for a second.....20 Diamond 9ft tables in a pool room, all set up at the same time...with everyone of the rail bolts tightened to 18ft lbs. Then the room owner gets shown how to tighten the rail bolts as well...and is advised to get a 3/8" torque wrench of his own so that he can periodily check the tightness of the rail bolts without having to call someone to come and check on them.

And if anyone says that if you use this or that on the threads they won't come loose on a first time set up....I'm letting you know right now....your full of shit. A table goes through "pool table shock" the first time it's ever delivered and set up. And I know....someone's going to ask me what is "pool table shock" once I post this reply.

Glen
  
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12-19-2006, 10:02 PM

And if anyone says that if you use this or that on the threads they won't come loose on a first time set up....I'm letting you know right now....your full of shit. A table goes through "pool table shock" the first time it's ever delivered and set up. And I know....someone's going to ask me what is "pool table shock" once I post this reply.

I would say there is a good possibility of them loosening, I wouldn't say guarantee they come loose. And I agree on consistency also just pointing out that a flawed technique on a torque wrench can give you a plu/minus of 10-20% now if one rail is plus 20% and one is minus 20%...... I know of an excellent mechanic whose tables always played great that blasted them down with a 1/2" Milwaukee hole shooter. Me, I do them by hand or with those 18V tools you like so much (with the clutch set of course)
  
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12-20-2006, 08:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetardo
As accurate as you may think a torque wrench is, they are only as accurate as the operator. What formula did you use to adjust the setting for each inch of extension you used? I can name 10-12 variables that can all throw off a torque reading 10-20% but I'm guessing you take all of those factors in to your equation before applying a torque wrench, right?
Craftsman 3/8" torque wrench, 4" extension, 9/16" socket. Torque set at 18ft lbs, torqued twice around.

Glen
  
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