Efren's 3 way shot!!

Yep, that's what I woulda done.:D

You know not many people know how to use throw on that frozen combo to put it in. If you notice, it wasn't "on." But, he managed to throw it quite a bit.
 
belmicah said:
Yep, that's what I woulda done.:D

You know not many people know how to use throw on that frozen combo to put it in. If you notice, it wasn't "on." But, he managed to throw it quite a bit.
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Every real player and most good shortstops know how to throw a frozen ball. The amazing thing about the shot is Efren's thought process. He almost threw the 6 ball "OUT" of the hole. Knowing that was a possibility, he also plays a one rail billiard on the 5 ball. That's what puts Efren in a league by himself, his thought process. The only player that ever came close to Efren's creativity at the table was Ronnie Allen. The greatest pool anyone could ever see is Efren playing one pocket. Efren is the Bobby Fischer of our game.
 
That was surely a very creative shot, but NOT because it was a 3-way shot. Actually, I highly doubt Efren intended it to be a 3-way shot at all.

After some thought, I determined he wasn't intending to make the 5 ball or 6 ball at all. I believe his main priority was to sink the 3-ball carom in the side pocket, and ironically that was the lone shot that didn't go down.

So what evidence supports my hypothesis? Mostly because of the right-hand english he used on the shot. When I first saw the video, I first thought he was intending to make the 5 ball because of the right-hand spin he induced on the CB. After hitting the 3, the CB hit the side rail and veered toward the 5 due to the right-hand spin. But because the 3 didn't go down in the side, he was faced with a tough table length back cut on his next shot. I doubt that was his intention to make his following shot so difficult. So from this, I don't think sinking the 5 was his main priority.

So maybe his main priority was to pocket the 6. But the shot didn't really look "on" to begin with. So maybe he used his magic to throw the 6 towards the pocket. If he was counting on the 6 to fall, why would he use right english at all? Wouldn't he want the CB to sit somewhere in the middle of the table after coming off the side rail, since he couldn't assume the 3 would go in. And even if the 3 does go in, he'd have a slam dunk shot with the 5, so it wasn't necessary to position the CB so close to the 5. And besides, the 6 just barely went in the corner pocket...it could have easily hung in the jaws. So from this, I don't think sinking the 6 was his main priority either.

So because it didn't seem he was playing position at all for the 3 ball, you'd have to guess that his main priority was to sink the 3...AND...that he was NOT counting on the 5 or 6 to go in.

So why do I still think it's a brilliant shot? Because it was a TWO-way shot...not in the sense that he wanted to make two balls, but that he wanted to carom the 3 in the corner and also play safe in case the shot was missed. Hence the right-hand english and the CB drifting toward the end rail. Because the 8 ball was where it was, there was a good chance the 3 would be snookered behind the 8 in the event the 3 wasn't pocketed. So not only was he not counting on the 5 or 6 to go in, he probably DID NOT want the 5 or 6 to go in.

So was it a clever shot? Yes, but not the way it would immediately be observed. Though a clever shot, it was poorly executed...on ALL levels...LOL. Not only did he miss pocketing the 3, he also didn't get safe on the 3 AND he accidentally sank the 5 and 6. But the funny thing is...the last two (or three) wrongs made a right, and he was back at the table with an open shot on the 3, albeit a difficult shot.

LOL, I had no idea this one shot was worth so many words. That's why I love pool. On some shots, you never truly know what a player was thinking until you ask him. However, I bet $10 that if you ask Efren, he'll confirm my hypothesis. :p (See, I can use logic on pool related threads as well. ;))

jsp <~~~ middle initial stands for "sleuth"
 
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I agree. I think he was going for the 3 ball. Straight out of Byrnes Standard book of billiards...
 
I'm no expert but the way he went around the table and eyed the 5 ball, it seemed to me like he was aiming for it too. Ya, it would be nice if we could just ask him :)
 
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I dont think he was going for the 3 ball because he wouldn't have hit the cueball with top. That would cause the 3 to come up short which it did. I think he was playing the 6 with cueball position on the 3 ball...
 
If he was trying for the six, he would have shot it with less speed thereby throwing the six more. I agree his first choice was to pocket the three. But he saw the possibilities and hit it accordingly. I don't think this can really be called "luck" per se' (unless of course I was shooting).
 
jsp said:
After some thought, I determined he wasn't intending to make the 5 ball or 6 ball at all. I believe his main priority was to sink the 3-ball carom in the side pocket, and ironically that was the lone shot that didn't go down.

So what evidence supports my hypothesis? Mostly because of the right-hand english he used on the shot. When I first saw the video, I first thought he was intending to make the 5 ball because of the right-hand spin he induced on the CB.
So maybe his main priority was to pocket the 6. But the shot didn't really look "on" to begin with. So maybe he used his magic to throw the 6 towards the pocket. If he was counting on the 6 to fall, why would he use right english at all? Wouldn't he want the CB to sit somewhere in the middle of the table after coming off the side rail, since he couldn't assume the 3 would go in. And besides, the 6 just barely went in the corner pocket...it could have easily hung in the jaws. So from this, I don't think sinking the 6 was his main priority either.

Hence the right-hand english and the CB drifting toward the end rail. Because the 8 ball was where it was, there was a good chance the 3 would be snookered behind the 8 in the event the 3 wasn't pocketed. So not only was he not counting on the 5 or 6 to go in, he probably DID NOT want the 5 or 6 to go in.



jsp <~~~ middle initial stands for "sleuth"
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He needed that right English to throw the six.If you put right on the cue ball that is contacting two frozen balls, the first ball is induced left spin, and the second right spin, which would in turn throw the shot to the right.

The combination of this right sidespin AND the contact throw (look it up) enabled him to pocket the ball; which he was intending to do in the first place.

If he was looking to make another ball, it was for insurance on missing the combo. His insurance was double, because he thought that the three might go, as well as the five.

I think it was at least a two way shot.
 
belmicah said:
He needed that right English to throw the six.If you put right on the cue ball that is contacting two frozen balls, the first ball is induced left spin, and the second right spin, which would in turn throw the shot to the right.

The combination of this right sidespin AND the contact throw (look it up) enabled him to pocket the ball; which he was intending to do in the first place.

If he was looking to make another ball, it was for insurance on missing the combo. His insurance was double, because he thought that the three might go, as well as the five.

I think it was at least a two way shot.
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That's a good point on the right-spin helping the 3 throw the 6 more toward the pocket.

If he really was intending to pocket the 6, then he was also intending to pocket the 3 as well, since I'm sure he knew the odds were against him he would obtain good position on the 3 provided it didn't go in. So I agree that there is a possibility his main priority was the to pot the 6...but only if he intended to sink BOTH the 3 and 6.

I think one thing is certain is that he wasn't intending to pot the 5, but who the heck knows. :)
 
IMHO, he was playing the 6, expecting the CB to catch the end rail near the 5 and come back around to the center of the table to shoot the 3. If he was trying to make the 3, he would have hit fuller with draw to force the 3 a little forward into the side. He surely didn't plan on such poor position on the 7 that he got. He also could have scratched if he hit the 5 full. Eren is way to smart for that kind of shot.
 
belmicah said:
He needed that right English to throw the six.If you put right on the cue ball that is contacting two frozen balls, the first ball is induced left spin, and the second right spin, which would in turn throw the shot to the right.

The combination of this right sidespin AND the contact throw (look it up) enabled him to pocket the ball; which he was intending to do in the first place.

If he was looking to make another ball, it was for insurance on missing the combo. His insurance was double, because he thought that the three might go, as well as the five.

I think it was at least a two way shot.
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Exactly... I don't even think it was a two-way shot. His efforts were mostly on making the 6, putting the right to help the 6 even more. As you saw from the video, it just barely went in. Without the massive right english he used, the 6 would not have fallen.

If anything he was probably trying to avoid the 5 altogether, as pocketing it would keep the cueball in a really bad spot to continue the rack (as actually happened).

It's possible he was playing the carom on the 3 too, but I really think most of his efforts were on the 6.

Edit: it's a shame we can't see his eyes in the video... that would tell you right away what he was doing by seeing what he looked at first :(

- Steve
 
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Steve Lipsky said:
Exactly... I don't even think it was a two-way shot. His efforts were mostly on making the 6, putting the right to help the 6 even more. As you saw from the video, it just barely went in. Without the massive right english he used, the 6 would not have fallen.

If anything he was probably trying to avoid the 5 altogether, as pocketing it would keep the cueball in a really bad spot to continue the rack (as actually happened).

It's possible he was playing the carom on the 3 too, but I really think most of his efforts were on the 6.

Edit: it's a shame we can't see his eyes in the video... that would tell you right away what he was doing by seeing what he looked at first :(

- Steve
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totally agree, I dont think he play the 5 at all, he was just trying to make the 6 and get decent position on the 3.
 
you never know

.....maybe he was riding the 9 and dogged it...........
 
"if he was counting on the 6 to fall, why would he use right english at all?"
I'm pretty sure he was playing the six. Most likely, the reason for all the right English was because he had to cut the 3 pretty good to get the grab/throw to pocket the 6, and the cut on the 3 was probably not as thick as it appears and probably meant letting the CB go a little. I would say that the right English was just to send the CB 3 cushions back to somewhere mid table where the 3 was most likely (and did) end up. I think the 5 was a lucky mistake, and by that I mean had he hit the 5 thicker, the CB could have stayed down at that end of the table leaving a tougher shot on the 3.
dave
 
By my reckoning, knocking in the five ball here was bad pool, and could have been costly depending on where the three went. Since we're talking about, arguably, the greatest ever at shot conceptualization, I think we can assume Efren did not intend to make the five. My guess is that Efren tried to go to the bottom rail to play a three rail path that would position him for the three, saving the five in case the three were to carom in. I think Efren played the six ball only, but allowed for the possibiity that the three might go.

I'm not calling this a great shot. I'm calling it a mistake that didn't cost.
 
I have a different take on this.I am GUESSING that he tried to make 3 ball in the side pocket and miserably failed and got lucky in making the 6 ball to continue to play.
I will make that 3 ball on the side for Two Budweisers.
 
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