suggestions/advice needed for homemade playing surface

whitey2

whitey2

Time Stand Still
Silver Member
Hi Folks,

A few months ago a acquired an old particle board pool table
bed, and a nice set of rails and pockets. The particle board
has always been warped, but I managed to use heavy weights
to get an almost level track from one corner to another in
one direction. But there is still a noticeable 1/10 inch hump
in two spots where the 3 pieces meet together. It has allowed
me to work on my stroke a bit, but now I want to somehow
put down a surface on top of the particle board which is level.

The best idea I have had so far, is to use plaster, which will
hopefully create a perfectly level surface. I think if I plug
the rail bolt holes with dowel or something, and build a small
dam along all the edges, it should keep the plaster on the
surface until it dries.

Has anyone ever done anything like this before? I am on a
very low budget, and would appreciate any and all information
and advise on this subject. I know it must sound like a somewhat
insane post to most folks, but I need to do this somehow.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions, etc..

EDIT: I do not intend on performing jump shots or masse' shots, just
honing my stroke and bettering my position play.
 
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corian - never heard of it, but just did some research

Thanks... It seems that corian is a solid material that comes in
sheets. I am really trying to find something that will allow me
to construct it, in place, by pouring it to create a one-piece
surface. Also, it is in a non-ventilated basement, with a furnace,
so I can't even use stuff like bondo. Also stuff like bondo is too
stiff to pour. Hopefully I'll find something or go with plaster,
and I hope some folks here have done something like this.
 
whitey2 said:
Hi Folks,


The best idea I have had so far, is to use plaster, which will
hopefully create a perfectly level surface. I think if I plug
the rail bolt holes with dowel or something, and build a small
dam along all the edges, it should keep the plaster on the
surface until it dries.
Click to expand...


No disrespect, but this has got disaster written all over it.
 
RayDM said:
I had a friend that needed to level his concrete bathroom floor. He went to a brick/masonry store and bought a powder mix. It was a type of cement product that when mixed with water and poured on the floor, self levelled the entire floor. when cured was stronger than the concrete and he only put about 1/8 inch on. you would need far less and might do the trick. Not sure what the name was, but could probably pick up the powder mix under $50.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good idea. Sure any masonry place would know what the product is. May need to ask some questions, since you are pouring it on a surface other than concrete - curing maybe different, and may need more product since it isn't being applied to concrete.
 
huh? based on what?

Da Poet said:
No disrespect, but this has got disaster written all over it.
Click to expand...

I don't see why someone would say that when they have no
clue as to what I have done in the past. Maybe if you did it
you could predict disaster, whew...

Here's a quote you might learn something from:

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
 
whitey2 said:
Hi Folks,

A few months ago a acquired an old particle board pool table
bed, and a nice set of rails and pockets. The particle board
has always been warped, but I managed to use heavy weights
to get an almost level track from one corner to another in
one direction. But there is still a noticeable 1/10 inch hump
in two spots where the 3 pieces meet together. It has allowed
me to work on my stroke a bit, but now I want to somehow
put down a surface on top of the particle board which is level.

The best idea I have had so far, is to use plaster, which will
hopefully create a perfectly level surface. I think if I plug
the rail bolt holes with dowel or something, and build a small
dam along all the edges, it should keep the plaster on the
surface until it dries.

Has anyone ever done anything like this before? I am on a
very low budget, and would appreciate any and all information
and advise on this subject. I know it must sound like a somewhat
insane post to most folks, but I need to do this somehow.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions, etc..

EDIT: I do not intend on performing jump shots or masse' shots, just
honing my stroke and bettering my position play.
Click to expand...
Whitey2: i have worked in the construction business for many years and i will tell you that there is NO mixing masonary product that will make your pool table level for playing.we are talking thousands of an inch the thickness of a credit card and less in order to level a table..a masonary product may look level but no way close to pool standards ..like one poster stated it does have disaster written all over....sell the table you have IF you can.then save up for a nice used one.a friend of mine recenly purchased a nice used 7 ft.Valley table for $500.00 ..it needs a real good cleaning and new cloth is all..good luck
 
wow thanks, I will investigate that stuff!

Hi,

That was a great suggestion. I'll investigate to see how much
it weighs and how strong it is. I built the frame in a way that
will hold at least a couple hundred pounds, but any more and
I'd get a little worried.

Also, do you happen to remember how smooth his floor turned
out? Best case would be if I could put the cloth directly on
"self leveled" surface, without having to perform any smoothing (sanding)
actions that could ruin the perfect planar surface.
 
ok, but your idea is assanine.

have you EVER seen plaster? it has absolutely no torsional or compressional integrity. it will crumble under either of those forces.

if you JUST practice your stroke on it, then instead of cracking you will simply "sand" grooves all through it just by the friction of the cloth on it.

Your idea is silly, thats why you are getting flamed, if there was a quality playing surface cheaper than 2,000,000 year old slate, then we would all be using it....your best bet is man made as suggested above, and if that is too expensive, then go with very high quality 9+ ply plywood (something dense, oak or better).

Anything poured wont work as liquids DO NOT ever find perfect level (not noticable when simply "leveling a floor", very noticiable on a pool table)..there will always be a meniscus....

whitey2 said:
I don't see why someone would say that when they have no
clue as to what I have done in the past. Maybe if you did it
you could predict disaster, whew...

Here's a quote you might learn something from:

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Click to expand...
 
?????????

Run table in local trade paper. You can buy a Valley Bar table for around the $400.00 mark.
Pinocchio
 
just wondering

Why are you trying to build something on top of the existing surface? To me it makes more sense to either buy particle board, or maybe a better material, use the old board as a template and make a new surface for it. It will be better than your current warped one for sure?
 
approximate meniscus measurements?

Well, if there is a very slight meniscus, how much of an
angle between the center and the edge do you think I should
expect. The surface is approx 107.5 inches by 57.5 inches.
I would even be willing to completely fill that cavity with
something like wood glue, and use a four foot piece of glass
(which I have) with sandpaper glued to it, to hone it.

I have engineered things beyond belief in the past, and came
here for helpful ideas. I do not have the capability or desire
to get involved with real slate. A friend even offered me a
complete set of Brunswick slate, and I turned them down.

I'll be sure to use my laser and 1/1000 in. gauge to measure
any planar deviations when I am done with this project for
the record. I may end up waiting until spring when the
furnace pilot can be extinguished, which will allow me to
use acrylic/epoxy like materials. In any case I would still
like to hear from folks *that have done something like this*.
I'm not planning on inviting Johnny Archer and Efren to
play on this table for $50,000 :)
 
Trying to achieve a no-seam one-piece surface

Hi. I thought about trying three sheets of MDF or something
like that, but then would have to build a different style frame
than what I threw together, that would allow easy access to
shims, etc.. That way I do not have to deal with trying to
painfully level 3 pieces, as well as cutting them in the same
dimensions of the existing surface. That was a very valid
question! It took me weeks to get what I have as level as
possible, and I'm trying to avoid that process. I thought I
could "let nature do that work", but perhaps it will just be
lending me a hand in the process...
 
How about the backer concrete board that is used under ceramic tile. Put that down and they put your coating on. The purpose of that board is to prevent flexing when applied over a wood subfloor.

I don't doubt your skills and seems like a good project but I think buying a used table may be your best bet in the long run. Don't throw good money after bad.
 
whitey2 said:
Well, if there is a very slight meniscus, how much of an
angle between the center and the edge do you think I should
expect. The surface is approx 107.5 inches by 57.5 inches.
I would even be willing to completely fill that cavity with
something like wood glue, and use a four foot piece of glass
(which I have) with sandpaper glued to it, to hone it.

I have engineered things beyond belief in the past, and came
here for helpful ideas. I do not have the capability or desire
to get involved with real slate. A friend even offered me a
complete set of Brunswick slate, and I turned them down.

I'll be sure to use my laser and 1/1000 in. gauge to measure
any planar deviations when I am done with this project for
the record. I may end up waiting until spring when the
furnace pilot can be extinguished, which will allow me to
use acrylic/epoxy like materials. In any case I would still
like to hear from folks *that have done something like this*.
I'm not planning on inviting Johnny Archer and Efren to
play on this table for $50,000 :)
Click to expand...

The trouble is that plaster and concrete and epoxy have very low impact hardness relative to what is needed for a pool playing surface. They will crumble or pit under the serious point-loads that the cue ball will exert. Your headstring will become like the surface of the moon after breaking enough times ... and the chunks displaced from the craters will serve as speed bumps on other shots.

BTW, what is a 1/1000" guage ? I've never heard of one before. Are you refering to the 0.0015" leaf in a feeler guage ? What were you using to level the old table ? It should not take 3 weeks with a Starrett 98, or even by rolling balls around. I can see where a carpenters level could cause you to go back again and again. Do not use a Master Precision Level, you'll be going back forever :D

Dave, likes the corian idea best so far, and engineers things to the point of suitability

PS The meniscus will be at the edge, likely under the rail depending on where the dam is placed. It would have to be removed to allow the rails to fit properly. The magnitude of the meniscus will depend on the materials in the system ; it would be rather large with epoxy, smaller with a watery plaster mix.
 
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Suggestion.
Sale the table for $50.00 save your money and purchase a slate table used.There is know cheap way of replacing a board table with slate or any other product and the frame is not built to support much weight.I just purchased a floor model tabe from Rec WareHouse for 250.00 sold the table for 700.00 and I never touched it.
 
1/1000 inch gauge / etc.

DaveK said:
...
BTW, what is a 1/1000" guage ? I've never heard of one before. Are you refering to the 0.0015" leaf in a feeler guage ? What were you using to level the old table ? It should not take 3 weeks with a Starrett 98, or even by rolling balls around.
[...] Dave, likes the corian idea best so far, and engineers things to the point of suitability
[...] The meniscus will be at the edge, likely under the rail depending on where the dam is placed. It would have to be removed to allow the rails to fit properly. The magnitude of the meniscus will depend on the materials in the system ; it would be rather large with epoxy, smaller with a watery plaster mix.
Click to expand...

Hi Dave,

Many thanks for your input. I'm not sure what I'm going to
end up doing, but a friend and I were discussing urethane as
a possibility. We just happen to be at a pub discussing this
over a couple beers, and the bar was made that way with
baseball cards on finished wood, then coated with what looked
like about 1/4 inch of urethane. I'd have to wait a few months
though when it gets warm, and the furnace is off. As far as
the 1/1000 inch guage, I've snapped a couple pictures, and
I'm including them below. This one is made by Central.
The table took a so long to level, since I just threw the frame
together using a combination of filing cabinets on their side,
a shelving unit, a 19" electronics rack, and hollow core house doors!
It started out as an experiment, and it actually plays pretty well
considering. Oh yeh, wool cloth is the same stuff fine suits are
made from. No pinstripes though! Since it was far from a standard
frame, and the hollow-core doors took a while to adapt to the weight,
it took a lot of shimming over a couple weeks. I hope you all get a laugh
though. And, I'm not making this up!
 

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whitey2 said:
Hi Dave,

Many thanks for your input. I'm not sure what I'm going to
end up doing, but a friend and I were discussing urethane as
a possibility. We just happen to be at a pub discussing this
over a couple beers, and the bar was made that way with
baseball cards on finished wood, then coated with what looked
like about 1/4 inch of urethane. I'd have to wait a few months
though when it gets warm, and the furnace is off. As far as
the 1/1000 inch guage, I've snapped a couple pictures, and
I'm including them below. This one is made by Central.
The table took a so long to level, since I just threw the frame
together using a combination of filing cabinets on their side,
a shelving unit, a 19" electronics rack, and hollow core house doors!
It started out as an experiment, and it actually plays pretty well
considering. Oh yeh, wool cloth is the same stuff fine suits are
made from. No pinstripes though! Since it was far from a standard
frame, and the hollow-core doors took a while to adapt to the weight,
it took a lot of shimming over a couple weeks. I hope you all get a laugh
though. And, I'm not making this up!
Click to expand...
i have used that urethane that you mentioned that was on a bar.it is very very expensive stuff..enough to do a 4x8 ft.table would be at least a couple hundred dollars.in this case for your pool table simply not worth it......
 
The table took a so long to level, since I just threw the frame
together using a combination of filing cabinets on their side,
a shelving unit, a 19" electronics rack, and hollow core house doors!
It started out as an experiment, and it actually plays pretty well
considering. Oh yeh, wool cloth is the same stuff fine suits are
made from. No pinstripes though! Since it was far from a standard
frame, and the hollow-core doors took a while to adapt to the weight,
it took a lot of shimming over a couple weeks. I hope you all get a laugh
though. And, I'm not making this up!
Click to expand...
:D Okay, I think I have the answer But I am going to have to see a picture of your project to date.;) :cool:
 
The answer? Please tell me more!

I'd welcome your "answer" whatever it is. Also, it was bad
news that that urethane is so expensive. I'm not sure I want
to post any more pics yet though, as it seems I'm just setting
myself up to the be laughed at. :)

I'd like to get my hands on the Brunswick 1" lucite slabs
they use to show off the cabinet of their tables. I heard they
are very rare, and are over a thousand dollars. They were not
made to be played on, but I'd build another frame if I could
manage to obtain a set of those, as I believe they are cut
and drilled perfectly already, and can be managed by one
person. I'm not yet ruling out that urethane, that bar is
extremely level and solid.
 
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