Is it wrong to use Ivory in cues??

Is it wrong to use Ivory in cues?

  • Yes

    Votes: 39 22.4%

  • No

    Votes: 135 77.6%
  • Total voters
    174
yally

yally

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey peeps,

Let me the first to say, I have had many shafts in my day and have played with every ferrule type. For me nothing played better, and nothing looks better than Ivory on a cue. I have and continue to drool over some of the incredible cues posted on this board using this material.

Call me a hypocrite, but in the last couple years I have really started having issues with the Ivory market. I mean let's be HONEST here, often these animals were just being killed their tusks and maybe their hides.

Now if I understand correctly, the only legal Ivory in the US is documented pre-ban 1976 Ivory. However, with the amount of Ivory used in the US just for cues, scrimshaw, custom knifes, and pistol grips, has got me wondering how is it possible there is any legal ivory left. Especially considering that it is relatively available to order without the prices being through the roof due to scarcity. (The Boone trading company has all their Ivory prices posted on the web) Unless someone on the board has more info, that must mean, that new Ivory must still be making it's way to the market.

For myself, I have come to terms with this by only buying cues using extinct mammoth ivory. It has a beautiful, creamy rich grain, and I know that no animal was killed or poached for that one part.

So, here is my question to you. Is it wrong to use Ivory in cues?????

Yally
 
Since ivory is scarce and is extracted in viciously inhumane ways, I don't think it should be used for ANYTHING anymore. With all the technology we have today, a suitable replacement can be found.

Maniac
 
There is such an overpopulation of elephants in Africa right now that they should open the market back up and BTW I think Ivory looks great in a cue
 
bigskyjake said:
There is such an overpopulation of elephants in Africa right now that they should open the market back up and BTW I think Ivory looks great in a cue
Click to expand...

Yeah, and clouds are made of cotton candy, tell your self what ever it takes for you to sleep at night.

I don't mean to be rude, elephants are not overpopulated. There are less than 350 left in China.(yes I know China isn't Africa, but if you're talking species you have to look globally not at small habitats.)

Straight from the United Nations: http://www.un.org/works/environment/animalplanet/elephant.html

P.S. I liked your Bob Ross av better.
 
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bigskyjake said:
There is such an overpopulation of elephants in Africa right now that they should open the market back up and BTW I think Ivory looks great in a cue
Click to expand...


i go elephant hunting every year, they have been doing game counts for around 100 years and your 100% correct there are more elephants than ever, when they are shot in the head they feel nothing and drop, i have personally shot 14 elephants, there is a Govt official with us at all times it is strictly regulated, it is legai in Zimbabwe to use lethal force on elephant poachers. atll the meat is fed to the people there no protein goes to waste in africa.

ivory in cues is fine as lonfg at it has the CITIES paperwork to prove it was a sport hunted elephant.
 
Fatboy said:
i have personally shot 14 elephants, there is a Govt official with us at all times
Click to expand...

Hmmm....1 Elephant wasn't good enough for you? :mad:

Back to the topic. Is it wrong (morally) to use Ivory in cues?
 
Maniac said:
Since ivory is scarce and is extracted in viciously inhumane ways, I don't think it should be used for ANYTHING anymore. With all the technology we have today, a suitable replacement can be found.

Maniac
Click to expand...
I AGREE:) :) :) :)
 
Fatboy said:
i go elephant hunting every year, they have been doing game counts for around 100 years and your 100% correct there are more elephants than ever, when they are shot in the head they feel nothing and drop, i have personally shot 14 elephants, there is a Govt official with us at all times it is strictly regulated, it is legai in Zimbabwe to use lethal force on elephant poachers. atll the meat is fed to the people there no protein goes to waste in africa.

ivory in cues is fine as lonfg at it has the CITIES paperwork to prove it was a sport hunted elephant.
Click to expand...


you say more elephants than ever !!!

you mean more elephants than in the last 100 years ie after we had almost hunted them to extinction during victorian times.

it amazes me the things people use to justify murder of innocent species.

if you fight them hand to hand i dont mind, i dont even mind if you have a spear of some sort

lets make it a fair fight and you can have all the ivory you can get
 
I have been curious about why more exotic materials aren't used in cues. Knifemakers use a lot of ivory substitutes in their knives, like mammoth ivory and oosik (fossilized penile bone from seals and a couple other animals). Maybe they do? I'm not into high end custom cues, but I've never heard of using these things.
 
It's Your Decision!

The last cue I imported, I purchased pre ban Ivory and sent it to the cuebuilder to be used in my cue. There is a great deal of pre ban Ivory in the US. There is no need to support the poachers in my opinion. I also believe killing anything (unless for survival) is morally wrong.
I use to be a deer hunter. The last time I went out, I found several carcuses with just the head missing. I refuse to be associated with the scumbags who do this sort of thing.
Purdman:cool:
 
Well, this is exactly the reason why we have invented ELFORYN. It has the look & feel of real ivory (also the hit in my opinion) and no animal has to be killed for it.

Secondly, even if you use pre ban ivory you may officially export the cue to another country but most likely the customer is not able to officially import that cue (most of the countries forbid that, even if it is pre ban). Also the price for real ivory will raise each year as the pre ban ivory will shorten over time. Further more if you buy and use real ivory, you will have to count for at least 30 % of waste that you have to pay for (if you buy tusks or parts of that).

For everybody interested, we will display ELFORYN at the Valley Forge Super Expo. (Slates and rods) Make sure to pay us a visit at Booth 31 / Blatt Billiards.

Markus
 
This is a difficult question to answer...

yally said:
Hey peeps,

Let me the first to say, I have had many shafts in my day and have played with every ferrule type. For me nothing played better, and nothing looks better than Ivory on a cue. I have and continue to drool over some of the incredible cues posted on this board using this material.

Call me a hypocrite, but in the last couple years I have really started having issues with the Ivory market. I mean let's be HONEST here, often these animals were just being killed their tusks and maybe their hides.

Now if I understand correctly, the only legal Ivory in the US is documented pre-ban 1976 Ivory. However, with the amount of Ivory used in the US just for cues, scrimshaw, custom knifes, and pistol grips, has got me wondering how is it possible there is any legal ivory left. Especially considering that it is relatively available to order without the prices being through the roof due to scarcity. (The Boone trading company has all their Ivory prices posted on the web) Unless someone on the board has more info, that must mean, that new Ivory must still be making it's way to the market.

For myself, I have come to terms with this by only buying cues using extinct mammoth ivory. It has a beautiful, creamy rich grain, and I know that no animal was killed or poached for that one part.

So, here is my question to you. Is it wrong to use Ivory in cues?????

Yally
Click to expand...
if only due to the reasons you have outlined, there is really no way to know that a cuemaker purchased legit or legal ivory! I own 1 cue with ivory and it is a cue made 42 years ago prior to todays issues surrounding the slaughter of elephants just for their tusk! here is a link to a recent article (BBC not any environmentalist website) here
 
i love the way ivory looks in a cue. but unless the ivory is obtained legaly i don't want anything to do with it. i don't think it's right such a huge animal is killed for such a small part of it's body. i'm fine with materials that look and feel like ivory.
 
Please ..........

Fatboy said:
i go elephant hunting every year, they have been doing game counts for around 100 years and your 100% correct there are more elephants than ever, when they are shot in the head they feel nothing and drop, i have personally shot 14 elephants, there is a Govt official with us at all times it is strictly regulated, it is legai in Zimbabwe to use lethal force on elephant poachers. atll the meat is fed to the people there no protein goes to waste in africa.

ivory in cues is fine as lonfg at it has the CITIES paperwork to prove it was a sport hunted elephant.
Click to expand...
This is the dumbest most ridiculous argument that I have ever heard! Readers Please read up on some truthful verifiable information on this subject ! this poster is full of it! this is a link to a article and information in 2006!!!!:mad:
 
A man who has killed 14 elephants is just incredibly sick. A man cannot kill 14 elephants without having done irrepairable damage to his soul and from there is just one small step away from killing human animals. Anyone capable of killing 14 elephants is perfectly capable of killing any human at anytime if they can manufacture the right excuse.

The bottom line is that such a person is very sick, very low on the evolutionary scale. Period. No exceptions. No discussion. No excuses.

Any yes... the use of ivory in pool cues is ethically wrong. There is no legitimate reason for it's use other than as some perverted sort of ego boost. Rather than being proud of having ivory in a cue we ought to be ashamed of it and refuse to buy any cue which contains ivory.
 
using ivory

It can be argued that any usage of ivory increases demand and threatens the current population. However cue makers in the US are very careful to buy only legal preban ivory. There are two reasons for this: First, the penalties for using illegal ivory can be draconian, however the second reason is more important. Ivory needs to cure for many years before it can be safely used in a cue stick without problems. Purely to insure a quality product, cuemakers must avoid using "green" ivory that is only a few years old or less. I use both ivory and ivory substitutes in my cues. I have no strong feelings one way or the other as long as legal ivory is used.

I haven't hunted in years however I have no qualms about killing an animal for food or to protect food supplies. I am a meat eater and having been born on a farm I know that the meat we all eat wasn't created in that neat little plastic tray we purchase it in at the supermarket. Nor are vegetarians exempt from being responsible for the slaughter of animals. Vegetarians are responsible for the slaughter of far more deer than people who eat meat are.

Humans are at the top of the food chain. I accept that and to tell the truth I am very glad of it. Several times in my life I have encountered a creature that was inclined to dispute my claim to the top of the food chain and it was a chilling experience!

Hu
 
Fatboy said:
i go elephant hunting every year, they have been doing game counts for around 100 years and your 100% correct there are more elephants than ever, when they are shot in the head they feel nothing and drop, i have personally shot 14 elephants, there is a Govt official with us at all times it is strictly regulated, it is legai in Zimbabwe to use lethal force on elephant poachers. atll the meat is fed to the people there no protein goes to waste in africa.

ivory in cues is fine as lonfg at it has the CITIES paperwork to prove it was a sport hunted elephant.
Click to expand...

Great Post, I'd go on safari if I had the cash-ish, plus i want a cue that is made of like an entire tusk, the only bad thing is it would probably weigh about ten pounds

Jake
 
This makes me laugh...there was a thread a while back of someone asking about which cuemakers would not use ivory, so they could get a cue made...snickering to myself, all I can think is what's next? A vegetarian that wants to find a cuemaker that doesn't eat meat to make their cue?! :rolleyes:
 
i210mfu said:
Well, this is exactly the reason why we have invented ELFORYN. It has the look & feel of real ivory (also the hit in my opinion) and no animal has to be killed for it.

Secondly, even if you use pre ban ivory you may officially export the cue to another country but most likely the customer is not able to officially import that cue (most of the countries forbid that, even if it is pre ban). Also the price for real ivory will raise each year as the pre ban ivory will shorten over time. Further more if you buy and use real ivory, you will have to count for at least 30 % of waste that you have to pay for (if you buy tusks or parts of that).

For everybody interested, we will display ELFORYN at the Valley Forge Super Expo. (Slates and rods) Make sure to pay us a visit at Booth 31 / Blatt Billiards.

Markus
Click to expand...

Most ivory supplies in the US come from walrus and narwhal. Eskimos are still allowed to kill some of these animals for their provisions. They are the only group of people who are allowed to hunt those animals. This doesn't prevent local poachers from doing the same.

Legally traded ivory from Africa come from rhinos. Forest rangers usually cut their horns to discourage poaching. Also from elephants where the ban is lifted, like Zimbabwe and Namibia.

Regardless of the source, some poachers are trading illegal ivory together with their legal stockpile.

You can always ask your favorite cue maker to at least ask for legal trade certification from their ivory supplier.
 
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