A customer is bringing me a BILLIARD Q, to have me reduce it's tip diameter, from 12 1/2mm to 11mm. I do this to pool Qs every week, but is there something different that I should know about a BILLIARD Q? What ferrule material & tips are used? Help me out here guys. THANKS...JER
Help With Billiard Shaft
- Thread starter BLACKHEARTCUES
- Start date
billiard cues
I'm curious, too. Not to hijack the thread, but I have a Brunswick Signature which I bought new in1967. It has a straight taper shaft. The original weight was about 20.5 ounces. Tip is big, 13mm+. Is this a billiard cue? Or what...? This was my first cue and I was totally clueless about em'. I never play with it, I'm just curious what a proper billiard cue specs out like.
I'm curious, too. Not to hijack the thread, but I have a Brunswick Signature which I bought new in1967. It has a straight taper shaft. The original weight was about 20.5 ounces. Tip is big, 13mm+. Is this a billiard cue? Or what...? This was my first cue and I was totally clueless about em'. I never play with it, I'm just curious what a proper billiard cue specs out like.
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BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Hello Jerry, I have re-tapered billiard Shafts on a number of occasions.
The ferrule material will depend on the maker of the cue. If the cue is American Made the material can be anything from Aegis, to fiber the same as a pool cue.
If the cue was made by Helmstetter, Adam, or is also foreign made in many cases the ferrules are plastic, like Meucci. On the old Helmstetters and Adams that were made in the late 70's or early 80's they used Fiber material of even Ivory.
As for tip's, most Billiards Players use a Medium to a Hard Layered tip. Many of the top players use Moori Tips, it all depends on the player. Raymond Cuelemans uses a Morri Medium tip, I am certain of this because I changed a Tip for him at World event at the Tacoma Elks lodge in 2002.
Jerry I hope this helps, I think the most important thing is keeping the taper concentric. Traditionally Billiard Shafts are very thick just pass the tip, Schuler Cues explains this pretty well on their web site.
Have a good day!!!!!!
www.shulercue.com
The website has changed quite a bit, and the info may be harder to find than before. Manwon has given a great explaination, and I wanted to add a bit of my limited experience, too.
As you mentioned, re-cutting, or resizing a billiard cue to a smaller diameter is not a problems, Just copy the taper down to the smaller tip diameter, and adjust a bit to alittle longer taper...not much.
I have included Mr Shuler's quote from the website for a better explaination of tapers on shafts for you. Good Luck
RWOMEL
S Texas
Ray Schuler comments on cue shafts
"The taper, or profile, of the shaft is probably the single most important determinant of a cue’s performance. The term pro or professional taper has come to define a shaft that, instead of being tapered, is cylindrical from the ferrule back for 10 to 14 inches, sometimes more. This type of shaft taper is more or less standard on modern pool cues. As an engineer, I consider it a serious design flaw.
"Herman Rambow is credited with inventing the pro taper. But I visited Herman’s shop many times and knew him well, and I know that he never made a shaft that wasn’t tapered along its entire length. The taper was so minor in many cases, however, that you couldn’t feel it. Consequently, when cuemakers came along who wanted to imitate Herman’s cues, they mistakenly thought his shafts were cylindrical for some distance back from the tip. Hence the ‘modern’ pro taper.
"At The Schuler Cue, we offer a variety of standard shaft tapers, but every Schuler shaft grows in diameter from the ferrule on back. The growth may be difficult to see or feel on some of our more flexible tapers — such as the Super Pro or Super X — but it’s there, and it’s important. You lose a tremendous amount of consistency and strength when any part of the shaft is cylindrical instead of tapered.
"Wood is a natural material, and as such its structure is inherently inconsistent. It is virtually impossible to find absolute consistency of density, grain, cell structure, bend modulus, or color from one end of a shaft to the other. The less taper a shaft has — the closer to cylindrical it is — the more pronounced will be the effect of these natural inconsistencies on shaft performance.
"For example, every shaft has a natural, built-in tendency to want to bend in a particular direction and at a particular point along its length. Taper on a shaft helps the cuemaker control those tendencies, so that the shaft will bend where it has been designed to bend, instead of where it wants to bend. Conversely, the absence of taper decreases the control that the cuemaker, and the player, can maintain over the natural inconsistencies in shaft performance."
The website has changed quite a bit, and the info may be harder to find than before. Manwon has given a great explaination, and I wanted to add a bit of my limited experience, too.
As you mentioned, re-cutting, or resizing a billiard cue to a smaller diameter is not a problems, Just copy the taper down to the smaller tip diameter, and adjust a bit to alittle longer taper...not much.
I have included Mr Shuler's quote from the website for a better explaination of tapers on shafts for you. Good Luck
RWOMEL
S Texas
Ray Schuler comments on cue shafts
"The taper, or profile, of the shaft is probably the single most important determinant of a cue’s performance. The term pro or professional taper has come to define a shaft that, instead of being tapered, is cylindrical from the ferrule back for 10 to 14 inches, sometimes more. This type of shaft taper is more or less standard on modern pool cues. As an engineer, I consider it a serious design flaw.
"Herman Rambow is credited with inventing the pro taper. But I visited Herman’s shop many times and knew him well, and I know that he never made a shaft that wasn’t tapered along its entire length. The taper was so minor in many cases, however, that you couldn’t feel it. Consequently, when cuemakers came along who wanted to imitate Herman’s cues, they mistakenly thought his shafts were cylindrical for some distance back from the tip. Hence the ‘modern’ pro taper.
"At The Schuler Cue, we offer a variety of standard shaft tapers, but every Schuler shaft grows in diameter from the ferrule on back. The growth may be difficult to see or feel on some of our more flexible tapers — such as the Super Pro or Super X — but it’s there, and it’s important. You lose a tremendous amount of consistency and strength when any part of the shaft is cylindrical instead of tapered.
"Wood is a natural material, and as such its structure is inherently inconsistent. It is virtually impossible to find absolute consistency of density, grain, cell structure, bend modulus, or color from one end of a shaft to the other. The less taper a shaft has — the closer to cylindrical it is — the more pronounced will be the effect of these natural inconsistencies on shaft performance.
"For example, every shaft has a natural, built-in tendency to want to bend in a particular direction and at a particular point along its length. Taper on a shaft helps the cuemaker control those tendencies, so that the shaft will bend where it has been designed to bend, instead of where it wants to bend. Conversely, the absence of taper decreases the control that the cuemaker, and the player, can maintain over the natural inconsistencies in shaft performance."
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Blackheartcues, I know Dieckman is at VF, and won't be back in his shop until 25 March, 2007. But here his website for cue taper http://www.cuemaker.com/dieckmanwrittenwordpqb.htm. I assume you know the type/name of the billiard cue your client want retaper?
Parrot Cue Apprentice Rayman Walter, referrule with a Corain ferrule and put a traingle tip on a old billiard cue Karomi / Helmstetter. the old ferrule was plastic, but also was threaded. This was his first carom cue he done,and he did an outstanding job. That cue been retire as I use a Dieckman Carom Cue now, along with a Parrot Cue/Todd Elkins #3 Carom Cue.
Bob Watson
Parrot Cue Apprentice Rayman Walter, referrule with a Corain ferrule and put a traingle tip on a old billiard cue Karomi / Helmstetter. the old ferrule was plastic, but also was threaded. This was his first carom cue he done,and he did an outstanding job. That cue been retire as I use a Dieckman Carom Cue now, along with a Parrot Cue/Todd Elkins #3 Carom Cue.
Bob Watson
What a mess. The guy drove 60 miles to get here. He has 2 shafts to be turned down. The 1st is from his playing Q & he wants it turned from 13mm to 11mm & he needs a new ferrule & tip. No problem, it tuned out, just like hundreds of others I've done. THEN come the surprise. The 2nd Q is a Carum Q that is Birdsete Maple, with a black handle. The shaft looks exactly like a Q I'm building. It's made of Stripped Ebony. He wants it turned from a 12mm to 10mm & he needs a new tip. I tell him 2 hours & he leaves. I cut the tip off & glue on a Morri medium. I cut it & the ferrule to 10mm & begin to sand the shaft. OH MY GOD. The brown & black grain on the shaft, begins to come off. IT'S a stained grain. Well it's too late to stop now, so I start taking it down to 10mm. Guess what, IT'S NOT EVEN A WOODEN SHAFT. The whole Q is FIBERGLASS, even the Birdseye Maple. I figured to have a problem with this guy, but when he comes back, he likes it. He knew it was fiberglass & didn't tell me. It would have been nice to know...JER
Wow. You think he might have gave you that little piece of info. Some people just dont get it.
Funny, but CueTec did/does make a carom cue with fiberglass shaft. Brain at Carom Billiards did carry them.http://www.carombilliards.com
http://www.joba.net/CommercePortal/products.asp?id=640
Or these Longoni Cues fiber shaft on page #13 http://www.longonicues.com/cues/caromshafts ss/carom shafts ss.html
http://www.joba.net/CommercePortal/products.asp?id=640
Or these Longoni Cues fiber shaft on page #13 http://www.longonicues.com/cues/caromshafts ss/carom shafts ss.html
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billiardshot said:
I went to the Carom Billiards site & sure enough, there it is. They call it their 'Signature Carom Cue".NO WHERE on that site, does it say that cue is not wood. It sure fooled me...JER
Since Carom Billiards in Springfield, IL, maybe you should call Brain and ask about the shaft material or why its not mention in the description. Those cue were sold on ebay a year or two back. Plus if you brought I believe one of the Dragon Cue you got a signature carom cue with it for a short time.
Just found this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/Carom-Billiard-...ryZ21212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem.
Check his other item.
Just found this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/Carom-Billiard-...ryZ21212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem.
Check his other item.
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