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Louie Roberts 1979 U.S. Open - 04-05-2007, 06:21 PM

Can anyone remember who Louie Roberts beat in the finals to win the 1979 U.S. Open 9 ball tournament?
and...
Who did Allen Hopkins beat to win the same title in 1977?
Thanks!
  
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04-05-2007, 08:41 PM

No replies? Just goes to show ya............ noone ever remembers second place

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04-05-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Ardeno
Can anyone remember who Louie Roberts beat in the finals to win the 1979 U.S. Open 9 ball tournament?
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04-06-2007, 06:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Ardeno
Can anyone remember who Louie Roberts beat in the finals to win the 1979 U.S. Open 9 ball tournament?
and...
Who did Allen Hopkins beat to win the same title in 1977?
Thanks!
Had no idea about either, Terry, but I figured I might get the Hopkins answer by looking at the program for the 1978 PPPA World straight pool championships. There was a full paragraph blurb about each player's career and recent highlights. The blurb on Allen Hopkins didn't even mention his 1977 world nine ball championshp. Nine ball was practically below the radar back then, and I'll bet that's why many like myself who were serious fans of the game duirng that era, still can't come up with the asnwer.
  
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04-06-2007, 09:02 AM

Actually, if anyone happens to have the info. I'd be very interested, from a historical point of view, to know who the runners up for the US Open have been since it's beginning.

I would think Barry Behrman or someone who works for him, would have this info.

It's kind of sad that there is no definitive source for this type of information on our sport. You would think this we would be something the BCA would/should take control of if only for the historical significance.
  
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04-06-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwilliams
Actually, if anyone happens to have the info. I'd be very interested, from a historical point of view, to know who the runners up for the US Open have been since it's beginning.

I would think Barry Behrman or someone who works for him, would have this info.

It's kind of sad that there is no definitive source for this type of information on our sport. You would think this we would be something the BCA would/should take control of if only for the historical significance.
I have tried to compile all the information about past winners and runner-ups of the US Open, and I'm getting there; however, I am missing several of the runner-ups but here is what I have.

http://www.fedbillarpr.bravehost.com/Open.html

Q-Master Billiards has many newspaper clippings about the past US Opens. Hope that in my next visit, I could gather whatever I'm missing.


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04-06-2007, 09:26 AM

This is excellent! Thank you!

I hope you're able to eventually get this completed. :-)
  
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04-06-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwilliams
Actually, if anyone happens to have the info. I'd be very interested, from a historical point of view, to know who the runners up for the US Open have been since it's beginning.

I would think Barry Behrman or someone who works for him, would have this info.

It's kind of sad that there is no definitive source for this type of information on our sport. You would think this we would be something the BCA would/should take control of if only for the historical significance.
jwilliams,
I have the hobby (obsession?) of collecting info on the famous players & important pro tournaments, even mid-level pro & have lists of all the champions in each discipline (8 ball, 9 ball, banks, 14.1 & 1 pocket) plus info on most of the pro's from the 1800's on. What's sad however, is that over the years, orginizations such as the BCA can not (will not) compile a historical record of this great sport of ours. I know that SJM, Charlie Ursitti, Bob Jewett and several others have been helpful at various times because they too love our great sport. I've contacted the BCA over the years in a very polite & respectful manner & asked them why when they did publish the 14.1 champs, they revised & changed that list over the years. They said they had "new info"on who won. Can anyone imagine if the NFL or MLB rewrote & revised their record books how that would look?
  
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04-06-2007, 12:20 PM

[QUOTE=juegabillar]I have tried to compile all the information about past winners and runner-ups of the US Open, and I'm getting there; however, I am missing several of the runner-ups

juegabillar,
Thank you & the others who all posted responses on this. My pontificating on my previous reply left no room for the info you were looking for.
This is the list of who was 2nd, 3rd & 4th place in each of the U.S.Open 9 ball tournaments. To save space, I'll leave out the winner since you have that.
78- Rempe, Lassiter & Sigel
80-Martin, Jerry Brock & Bobby Williams
81-Sigel, Bollman & Clyde Childress
82-Zuglan, Reid & Munson
83-Howard, Mizerak & Rempe
84-Sigel, Toby Sweet & Mizerak
85-LeBron, Reyes & Wade Crane
86-Hopkins, Varner & Sigel
87-Rempe, Sigel& Jay SWanson
88-Varner, Hopkins & Bollman
89-Davenport, Sigel & Hall
90-Archer, Sigel & Incardona.
  
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04-06-2007, 12:30 PM

[QUOTE=juegabillar]I have tried to compile all the information about past winners and runner-ups of the US Open, and I'm getting there; however, I am missing several of the runner-ups

CONTINUED from last post....
1991-Hatch, Archer & Grady Mathews
1992-Archer, Parica & Hall
1993-Ellin, Sigel & Archer
1994-Varner, Ellin & Kennedy
1995-Reyes, Archer & Bustamonte
1996-Reyes, Luat & Varner
1997-Reyes, Luat & John Horsfall
1998-Tang Hoa, Immonen & Kunihiko Takahashi
1999-Jeremy Jones, Luat & Davenport
2000-Takeshi Okumura, Bustamonte & Luat
2001-Immonen, Parica & Strickland
2002-Pagulayan, Strickland & Morris
2003-Parica, McCready & Morris
2004-Hohmann, Feijen & Deuel
2005Parica, Bustamonte & Strickland
2006-Luat, Owen & Broxson

I left their 1st names to save space. If you need anything esle on this, let me know.
Your friend,Terry-
  
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04-06-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Ardeno
jwilliams,
I have the hobby (obsession?) of collecting info on the famous players & important pro tournaments, even mid-level pro & have lists of all the champions in each discipline (8 ball, 9 ball, banks, 14.1 & 1 pocket) plus info on most of the pro's from the 1800's on. What's sad however, is that over the years, orginizations such as the BCA can not (will not) compile a historical record of this great sport of ours. I know that SJM, Charlie Ursitti, Bob Jewett and several others have been helpful at various times because they too love our great sport. I've contacted the BCA over the years in a very polite & respectful manner & asked them why when they did publish the 14.1 champs, they revised & changed that list over the years. They said they had "new info"on who won. Can anyone imagine if the NFL or MLB rewrote & revised their record books how that would look?
Wow! I must say that's quite laughable (and I don't mean haha funny!)

Did they give you any reason behind this change in the record books or any clue as to the source of this "new information?"

I wonder why this new information of theirs is so much more reliable than the old, and if in fact it is more accurate, then where were they getting their initial facts from in the first place?

It would be great if we had a some sort of on-line repository for this type of information. Something along the lines of the IMDB would be great!

This would allow people to openly debate the accuracy of these tournament results and hopefully to reasonably and definitively resolve any discrepancies.
  
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04-06-2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Ardeno
jwilliams,
I have the hobby (obsession?) of collecting info on the famous players & important pro tournaments, even mid-level pro & have lists of all the champions in each discipline (8 ball, 9 ball, banks, 14.1 & 1 pocket) plus info on most of the pro's from the 1800's on. What's sad however, is that over the years, orginizations such as the BCA can not (will not) compile a historical record of this great sport of ours. I know that SJM, Charlie Ursitti, Bob Jewett and several others have been helpful at various times because they too love our great sport. I've contacted the BCA over the years in a very polite & respectful manner & asked them why when they did publish the 14.1 champs, they revised & changed that list over the years. They said they had "new info"on who won. Can anyone imagine if the NFL or MLB rewrote & revised their record books how that would look?
One complication in the recordkeeping puzzle is that some of the sanctioning bodies of yesteryear are no longer with us. For example, I wonder if you remember the Chicago Congress of Billiards?

In additon, the moments of disunity in the game force some interpretations. For example, in 1976, the upstart PPPA did not gain full acceptance among the game's most elite straight poolers. Nonetheless, they claimed their premier event played every August to be the World Championship of 14.1, but was it? Who was the ture 14.1 champion in 1976? Was it Larry Lisciotti, who won the PPPA World 14.1 Championship in Asbury Park, NJ, in the most dramatic possible way, coming form the loser's side to beat Mizerak twice in the final? Or was it Tom Jennings, who won the 1976 US Open 14.1 event, against what many considered a tougher field.

I'm not sure it bothers me that the evidence of who won what has to be rexamined, as long as it's a step in the direction of establishing the truth.

Before signing off, Terry, I'd like to make a suggestion. Over the years, I have found that the programs sold/distributed at the major pool events often include a lot of history about the game. I wish I had saved a few more of mine, but I'd like to suggest that hooking up with collectors of memorabilia such as programs might help you further solve some of pools lingering mysteries.
  
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04-06-2007, 01:00 PM

[QUOTE=Terry Ardeno]
Quote:
Originally Posted by juegabillar
I have tried to compile all the information about past winners and runner-ups of the US Open, and I'm getting there; however, I am missing several of the runner-ups

CONTINUED from last post....
1991-Hatch, Archer & Grady Mathews
1992-Archer, Parica & Hall
1993-Ellin, Sigel & Archer
1994-Varner, Ellin & Kennedy
1995-Reyes, Archer & Bustamonte
1996-Reyes, Luat & Varner
1997-Reyes, Luat & John Horsfall
1998-Tang Hoa, Immonen & Kunihiko Takahashi
1999-Jeremy Jones, Luat & Davenport
2000-Takeshi Okumura, Bustamonte & Luat
2001-Immonen, Parica & Strickland
2002-Pagulayan, Strickland & Morris
2003-Parica, McCready & Morris
2004-Hohmann, Feijen & Deuel
2005Parica, Bustamonte & Strickland
2006-Luat, Owen & Broxson

I left their 1st names to save space. If you need anything esle on this, let me know.
Your friend,Terry-
Great information here Terry thanks for all of this!

Out of curiousity, how readily accessable is all of this data of yours?

Have you ever considered publishing this on a searchable web-site (or perhaps you already have done so), thus creating a sort of pool related historical database like I mentioned earlier?
  
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04-06-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwilliams

It would be great if we had a some sort of on-line repository for this type of information. Something along the lines of the IMDB would be great!

This would allow people to openly debate the accuracy of these tournament results and hopefully to reasonably and definitively resolve any discrepancies.
OnePocket.org has been doing that for One Pocket and Bank Pool events.
The One Pocket winners and runners-up are here
The Bank Pool records are not as complete, but what I have so far is http://onepocket.org/Bank-Records.htm.

The BCA doesn't appear to really recognize either One Pocket or Banks tournaments, which is why I started those two "Record Books".

Anyone who has any info to add, or photos or posters or other graphics from One Pocket or Banks events, please contact me!

I have a few stray 9-ball and straight pool programs in my collection too, which I would very happily trade for something One Pocket or Banks related of comparable value

Here's a little known tidbit: in 1979 there were actually two US Open tournaments (both promoted by Barry B as such) -- and they both included One Pocket!

Unfortunately, that was pretty much the end of multidiscipline tournaments, as the PPPA (remember them?) pushed hard for short term events, casting a death knell on the formerly popular "all-around" format until the Derby City Classic came along and successfully revived the concept. At least that is my take...


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04-06-2007, 01:45 PM

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Originally Posted by sjm
One complication in the recordkeeping puzzle is that some of the sanctioning bodies of yesteryear are no longer with us. For example, I wonder if you remember the Chicago Congress of Billiards?

In additon, the moments of disunity in the game force some interpretations. For example, in 1976, the upstart PPPA did not gain full acceptance among the game's most elite straight poolers. Nonetheless, they claimed their premier event played every August to be the World Championship of 14.1, but was it? Who was the ture 14.1 champion in 1976? Was it Larry Lisciotti, who won the PPPA World 14.1 Championship in Asbury Park, NJ, in the most dramatic possible way, coming form the loser's side to beat Mizerak twice in the final? Or was it Tom Jennings, who won the 1976 US Open 14.1 event, against what many considered a tougher field.
***SJM, Lisciotti...Do you remember their famous "Challenge Match" after their respective wins in which Lisciotti handily beat Jennings 1000-770?

I'm not sure it bothers me that the evidence of who won what has to be rexamined, as long as it's a step in the direction of establishing the truth.
Agree 100%

Before signing off, Terry, I'd like to make a suggestion. Over the years, I have found that the programs sold/distributed at the major pool events often include a lot of history about the game. I wish I had saved a few more of mine, but I'd like to suggest that hooking up with collectors of memorabilia such as programs might help you further solve some of pools lingering mysteries.
I added a response to your question re: Lisciotti but I inadvertantly put it inside your quote above. (Rocket scientist I am NOT)
I have so many sources built up over the years...One example...I needed Luther Lassiter's birthday. It was never listed anywhere. The BCA didn't have it (no surprise) so it dawned on me that since Wimpy had served in the US Coast Guard, he would have a social security #, so I went to the SS death index & located it there. Some of this is fun, but lots of it is a waste of time because of dead ends.
SJM, I don't understand how the BCA can have a "Hall of Fame", albeit in name only since no such place exists, and not have any info on the greats enshrined other than the paragraph posted. To me, it's obviously not their passion, simply a job. Cicero Murphy never won 1 BCA sanctioned event, yet he is in their HOF. Yet, Bennie Allen, Hopkins and a slew of other multi titled winners are not. They won't even consider guys like Grady Mathews because I was told, "he never won a BCA sanctioned event"....Oh well!

Last edited by Terry Ardeno; 04-06-2007 at 01:59 PM.
  
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