Kim vs. Morro

jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Kim D. came down three days ago to LA and stayed at my house. He had plans to play Morro some Liability at Hard Times. They played two days ago and Morro took him for a big number at $40 a point. This is high stakes action.

They played again yesterday and Kim got Morro for an even bigger number (much bigger) at $50 a point. It's all over now and Kim returned home, a little fatter in back. I give Kim a lot of credit after all he's been through, to come down here and play Morro for big bucks on the super tight 6x12 at Hard Times.

I know Shane has been in action against James Walden in Oklahoma this week. I think they are still playing.
 
jay helfert said:
Kim D. came down three days ago to LA and stayed at my house. He had plans to play Morro some Liability at Hard Times. They played two days ago and Morro took him for a big number at $40 a point. This is high stakes action.

They played again yesterday and Kim got Morro for an even bigger number (much bigger) at $50 a point. It's all over now and Kim returned home, a little fatter in back. I give Kim a lot of credit after all he's been through, to come down here and play Morro for big bucks on the super tight 6x12 at Hard Times.

I know Shane has been in action against James Walden in Oklahoma this week. I think they are still playing.
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Jay, which Shane? McMinn?
 
Post deleted. Somehow I confused Shane and Shannon. Probably time to go to bed, huh?
 
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jay helfert said:
Kim D. came down three days ago to LA and stayed at my house. He had plans to play Morro some Liability at Hard Times. They played two days ago and Morro took him for a big number at $40 a point. This is high stakes action.

They played again yesterday and Kim got Morro for an even bigger number (much bigger) at $50 a point. It's all over now and Kim returned home, a little fatter in back. I give Kim a lot of credit after all he's been through, to come down here and play Morro for big bucks on the super tight 6x12 at Hard Times.

I know Shane has been in action against James Walden in Oklahoma this week. I think they are still playing.
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I too am happy for Kim. He has been a very consistent player over the years. I'm glad he's still able to enjoy and compete in the thing he loves so much.
BTW Jay, does Kim work in a poolroom or have ownership in one back in Modesto?
Thanks.
 
jay helfert said:
Kim D. came down three days ago to LA and stayed at my house. He had plans to play Morro some Liability at Hard Times. They played two days ago and Morro took him for a big number at $40 a point. This is high stakes action.

They played again yesterday and Kim got Morro for an even bigger number (much bigger) at $50 a point. It's all over now and Kim returned home, a little fatter in back. I give Kim a lot of credit after all he's been through, to come down here and play Morro for big bucks on the super tight 6x12 at Hard Times.

I know Shane has been in action against James Walden in Oklahoma this week. I think they are still playing.
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Hey Jay give us a east coasters a short explanation about liability and how many points are available please
 
jay helfert said:
Kim D. came down three days ago to LA and stayed at my house. He had plans to play Morro some Liability at Hard Times. They played two days ago and Morro took him for a big number at $40 a point. This is high stakes action.

They played again yesterday and Kim got Morro for an even bigger number (much bigger) at $50 a point. It's all over now and Kim returned home, a little fatter in back. I give Kim a lot of credit after all he's been through, to come down here and play Morro for big bucks on the super tight 6x12 at Hard Times.

I know Shane has been in action against James Walden

Curious as to how and what they are playing??? James is very tough to beat in OKC.
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poolcuemaster said:
Hey Jay give us a east coasters a short explanation about liability and how many points are available please
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I'm sure Jay will explain this better, but back in the day, it was played that you were "liable" for any ball you sold out. For example, if the guy following you were to run three balls, you'd be liable for 3 points at $50 a point is $150. They usually played 6ball rotation. I forget how scratches are scored. All I remember is that 6x12 at HardTimes should go into the Hall of Fame. It's the most trecherous table I've ever hit a ball on. ;)

For Kim to beat someone like Morro on that table is just amazing.
 
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I_Need_D_8 said:
For Kim to beat someone like Morro on that table is just amazing.
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I_Need_D_8,

I know that Morro finished 2nd in the World 9 Ball Championship to Fong Pang Chao several years ago, but when I think of Davenport vs Paez matching up, I would think that Davenport would be the favorite. The only time I've ever seen Paez play was on tape during the WPC tournament I mentioned. He looks so high strung and tight. Jumps up with every shot. Plus, I know he's had at least one heart attack a couple of years ago.
So here's my question...How would you rate these two heads up? Is Paez really still THAT strong a player? Davenport just seems so consistant year in & year out.
Looking forward to reading what you think. And anyone else who cares to add their opinion on these two, please do.
Thanks.
 
Terry Ardeno said:
I_Need_D_8,

I know that Morro finished 2nd in the World 9 Ball Championship to Fong Pang Chao several years ago, but when I think of Davenport vs Paez matching up, I would think that Davenport would be the favorite. The only time I've ever seen Paez play was on tape during the WPC tournament I mentioned. He looks so high strung and tight. Jumps up with every shot. Plus, I know he's had at least one heart attack a couple of years ago.
So here's my question...How would you rate these two heads up? Is Paez really still THAT strong a player? Davenport just seems so consistant year in & year out.
Looking forward to reading what you think. And anyone else who cares to add their opinion on these two, please do.
Thanks.
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Playing 9ball on a gold crown, Kim has always been the favorite between these two. I'm just saying that for ANYONE to beat Morro, Francisco, Ernesto or any other regular champion at HardTimes on THAT table is amazing. And yes, it's a 6x12 snooker table. With pockets tighter than a frog's ass and cloth like ice. It's arguably a gaffe table. You've got to hit a ball on it to believe it.
 
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I am i very impressed after trying just to drive 12 miles home with a patch over one eye after catching a piece of steel in right eye and having rust ring ground out of cornea. I almost wrecked ten times or more on the same roads I drove on every day and my point is Kim can still play great pool with one eye without the depth preception that he had taking away from the golf ball accident.-- I can't imagine the difference--Leonard
 
I_Need_D_8 said:
Playing 9ball on a gold crown, Kim has always been the favorite between these two. I'm just saying that for ANYONE to beat Morro, Francisco, Ernesto or any other regular champion at HardTimes on THAT table is amazing. And yes, it's a 6x12 snooker table. With pockets tighter than a frog's ass and cloth like ice. It's arguably a gaffe table. You've got to hit a ball on it to believe it.
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That makes total sense now. Thank you my friend.
 
jay helfert said:
I know Shane has been in action against James Walden in Oklahoma this week. I think they are still playing.
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I was told that this match up never happened as of yesterday evening. Have you heard differently & when did you hear about it happening?

Thanks, Dave

I was told it would be an ahead set (15?) of 8-ball on a bar table for many jellybeans.
 
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I_Need_D_8 said:
I'm sure Jay will explain this better, but back in the day, it was played that you were "liable" for any ball you sold out. For example, if the guy following you were to run three balls, you'd be liable for 3 points at $50 a point is $150. They usually played 6ball rotation. I forget how scratches are scored. All I remember is that 6x12 at HardTimes should go into the Hall of Fame. It's the most trecherous table I've ever hit a ball on. ;)

For Kim to beat someone like Morro on that table is just amazing.
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I am not sure but I think you explained the payout for pay ball on the snooker table. I think in liability you pay the price for each point the ball is worth. Example= the three ball is worth $300. Does someone know for sure? It's been a long time for me since I played this.
 
I meant in this case the three ball is worth 3 points. At $50 per point it would be worth $150. Sorry I typed too quick.
 
dabarbr said:
I meant in this case the three ball is worth 3 points. At $50 per point it would be worth $150. Sorry I typed too quick.
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So then the six would be worth 6 times the bet. I think you are right about it being the way to play liability.
 
With your correction you're correct about how Liability goes. Like payball it's a great group game. It is also known in some places as "citation.". $40 or $50 a point is steep action...however, I'd guess that neither player ever potted more than 4 or 5 balls in their best inning. The corner pockets on that table are all but closed down. However, at $40 or $50 a point even a sacrifice would cost 160 or 200 jellybeans! I'll give anyone ball in hand on the 2 and wager that they cannot run out to the 7 on that box!

Martin


dabarbr said:
I am not sure but I think you explained the payout for pay ball on the snooker table. I think in liability you pay the price for each point the ball is worth. Example= the three ball is worth $300. Does someone know for sure? It's been a long time for me since I played this.
Click to expand...
 
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The table is a gaff, it favors the home team HUGE. but it should be in the hall of fame someday, every person in the world can be beat on that table at any given time, no one is gonna run 50 pts on it, unless the balls are wide open in the center, I have played liability on it years ago and all I did was lose, then I would go around to other poolrooms and scratch up enough $$$ to go back there and give it away. When I was playing then it was a 4-5 person ring game and I would get unlucky in the rotation of the players and it awalys seemes that the best player followed me, a few times that didnt happen i was never the favorite I was usually in the middle as far as speed is concerned I never played heads up. one time I was up pretty good and then one guy dropped out and poof I was emptyed out 2 hours later.
 
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Yes, someone had it right about Liability. You set up the balls like snooker, and most people play it short-rack with the red balls (cherries). Instead of 15 cherries, most people play with 5 or 6 cherries IIRC (it's been a few years since I've played). You have to make a cherry, then pot a numbered ball, until all the cherries are gone, just like snooker. Again, in the 'D' you set it up 3-4-2, 5ball in the middle of the table, the pink 6 on the spot and the black 7 on the spot below that. On that table at hard times, the corner pockets will BARELY fit a snooker ball. The pockets are much, much, much tighter than a regular snooker table. They are rounded a bit more, so many shots that can be potted on a regular English snooker table, can't be pocketed on this one. Balls on the rail, or up to a foot off the rail can't be pocketed, even if you roll them super soft. That's the way the table is, and it's lightning fast.

About scoring, yes the 3ball is worth 3 points, the 4ball is 4 points, and so on. Each cherry is 1 point. A foul is -4 points, unless you foul and hit a numbered ball, then the foul becomes negative whatever numbered ball you hit (i.e. if you are on the 2ball and you hit the 7ball first, that's -7 points instead of 4). So if you hook the person following you, and they foul, you get paid from them. If the person that shot after you sold out to the next person, he would have to pay that person too. It can be a very brutal game.

I used to play $1-$2 per point, and you can lose $100 within 30 minutes very easily. I used to think playing for $5 or $10 per point was HUGE, but $50 per point, that is unreal! You could win thousands in a half hour, depending on how good you play, of course.

One more thing, to the poster that said he would wager that someone couldn't run out the 2-7 ball with ball in hand on that particular table at Hard Times- I have seen Parica in a $10 per point liability game on that table, and he ran cherry-ball a few times and finished with running out the 2-7. I watched for a couple of hours and he did it twice. This was a few years ago. Parica was firing balls in like it was 9ball! SICK!
 
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