break cue question: new Gulyassy tip/ferrule

prewarhero

prewarhero

guess my avatar
Silver Member
I am in the market for a break cue. I am considering the following:
BK2
Gulyassy
fury


But I think I need the power over the accuarcy at this point so I think i want to go with a phenolic ferrule/tip versus the more accurate yet less powerful break. I noticed a gulyassy that is advertised with his new patentet material. What is this? Any flaws in my logic? Set me str8t!
Thanks in advance,
Jordan
 
The Fury does the same thing as the other two for a lower price. Of course many people feel that the Gulyassy is "better" or the Predator is "better" but I have yet to see a head to head comparison on the pool table that really proves it.

John - Fury Shill :-)
 
Comparison?

John Barton said:
... I have yet to see a head to head comparison on the pool table that really proves it.

John - Fury Shill :-)
Click to expand...

You mean that, even though they make a real good case for BOTH the Pred. BK2 AND the Fury, Shane Sinnott's tightly-controlled mechanical experiments with break cue speeds on Platinum Billiards don't count toward a decent comparison? ;) ;) :D (at this point, I am remembering the "Iron Willy" and Meucci deflection test controversies).

http://www.platinumbilliards.com/rating_break.php

You can also get a LOT more information on most of the 45 tested cues than just the break speeds at this site, by clicking the "more info" buttons to the far right of each tested cue.
 
Fury

Between those, unless you are somewhat of a collector, I would just buy the fury. I have never broke with one myself but for 149.00 you can't beat it I'm sure. http://www.platinumbilliards.com/ look at the speeds on this site where you can also buy a fury. It also shows some shaft deflections that are pretty interesting, including the OB-1.
 
Yeah Platinum is doing some good testing. I meant to say that from tons of personal experience at shows doing exhibitions and having to fade every break cue, break jump cue, jump cue, and break/jump cue on the market I have yet to see one that unequivocally beats the Fury in the jumping and breaking categories. Sure there are some that seem to jump or break better when one guy tries it and then the next guy will have the exact opposite experience which to me is a wash.
 
watchez said:
Yep, those lil chinese factory workers make a great cue.
Click to expand...

Yup, they sure do, especially for the money and the scary thing is that they are getting better and better. Pretty soon you'll just have to resort to judging a product on it's merits rather than where it's made or using some thinly veiled racist or stereotypical comment to put a product down.

Just once I'd like to see you tell us what makes a "good" cue and then go ahead and analyze the cues you want to compare to get a true measure of the relative quality instead of playing the flag card.

And Watchez I know you bet more in a month than the National Debt so here's a proposition for you. Bring whoever you want to to Xiamen China any time you want and I will have a Chinese player here playing with cues that were made 100% in China to bet WHATEVER you can possibly stack up on the table. These folks don't play around and THEY WILL BET on their player. So you can win some of the 1 TRILLION dollars that China has in reserve because there are A LOT of freaking rich people here that you can bust if you can find a player good enough to do it. I will just make sure that their equipment is 100% Chinese since you seem to want to denigrate the cues from Asia so bad.

And that's my McWoof for the day :-)
 
!

John Barton said:
Yup, they sure do, especially for the money and the scary thing is that they are getting better and better. Pretty soon you'll just have to resort to judging a product on it's merits rather than where it's made or using some thinly veiled racist or stereotypical comment to put a product down.

Just once I'd like to see you tell us what makes a "good" cue and then go ahead and analyze the cues you want to compare to get a true measure of the relative quality instead of playing the flag card.

And Watchez I know you bet more in a month than the National Debt so here's a proposition for you. Bring whoever you want to to Xiamen China any time you want and I will have a Chinese player here playing with cues that were made 100% in China to bet WHATEVER you can possibly stack up on the table. These folks don't play around and THEY WILL BET on their player. So you can win some of the 1 TRILLION dollars that China has in reserve because there are A LOT of freaking rich people here that you can bust if you can find a player good enough to do it. I will just make sure that their equipment is 100% Chinese since you seem to want to denigrate the cues from Asia so bad.

And that's my McWoof for the day :-)
Click to expand...
LOL, was that a sore spot or what? Just kiddin with ya brother, don't send the Triads to get me. I'm sure there still a few players over there that we haven't even seen yet that play better than any we have seen.
 
If you are still in China, how can it be that you have tested the new Gulyassey break cue?

And how did I denigrate the Chinese cue ????--I am 100% positive my quote is that they make a great cue.

Glad to see that you found a different group besides Scottish women that you think can play pool.
 
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I've been using the Gulyassy j/b for a couple months now, and it's the best I've ever tried in terms of power and control. I've also let many others in my ph try it and they all say the same thing...awesome. JMO. :p
 
prewarhero said:
I am in the market for a break cue. I am considering the following:
BK2
Gulyassy
fury

Thanks in advance,
Jordan
Click to expand...

In view of my previous post, I have to say that I am in complete agreement with "John Barton" and "gpeezy" on the Fury JB being the one to buy. A slight step after the Pred. BK2 and the Mezz Power Break 2 comes comes about 8 cues that all performed relatively closely, with Fury, Scorpion and CueTec at the top of that list. The Scorpion and CueTec are in the same price range as the Fury (ca. $140-$150 at Platinum Billiards).

Additionally, there is one other chinese-made jump/break cue that is VERY POPULAR and well-liked by those who have used them, but does NOT appear in the Platinum Billiards tests. This would be any one of the various $75-$90 J&J models. J&J is a highly reputable American-owned and USA-based distributor with reputable and dependable equipment. Much of the stuff it sells that is made in China, is made under J&J's own license, supervision and quality control before it is even shipped to the USA.

This is extremely similar to, if not exactly the same as, the highly-reputable conditions of pool equipment manufacture with which John Barton deals. Time is quickly passing by wherein folks can, anymore, look down their collective noses at Chinese-made equipment. The J&J J/B cues can be found here:

http://www.jjcue.com/jjcue-jumpbkcue.htm

In actuality, in spite of the slight test differences between the Fury JB and the Pred. BK2, the Fury JB performs CONSISTENTLY, and it also performs closely enough in the speed test that 99.44% of us would never notice the difference -- even if we could switch back and forth between them over an extended period of time.

Thus, the whole thing comes down to SUBJECTIVE, rather than objective, opinion on relative performance -- what feels great to one person feels totally wrong to the next. John Barton pointed this out, in a similar way, in one of his posts.

I, myself, several weeks ago, was in a toss-up over whether to buy the Fury JB or one of the J&Js (I was leaning toward the Fury). Instead, I had a brainstorm about one of my really old cues (a late 1960's H. Betti) that happens to have an ORIGINAL flat-laminated shaft with a replacement Ivorine III ferrule on it. I will be modifying this slightly and then tipping it with one of Joe Picone's White Diamond tips. OK, so I like to tinker :D :D :D

I have heard a LOT of VERY POSITIVE feedback about the performance of the Pred. BK2, the Scorpion, the Gulyassy X-Breaker, Kevin Varney's breakers, the Fury JB and J&J's various J/B cues. Some, but not much about anything else, but this is more likely an issue of total population distribution rather than performance. That is to say, there are probably quite a few other cues out there that perform as well as any of these -- we just haven't heard the "raves," yet.

I actually seem to hear the most about the Fury and the Scorpion, overall. I have actually had both of these in my hand (haven't used them). The ferrule/tip set-up on the Fury, for the SPECIFIC purpose of jumping and breaking, is far superior, IMHO, to that of the Scorpion.

The Scorpion uses a fiber ferrule and a press-hardened uni-layer leather LePro tip and, to me, is more of a playing cue than it is a J/B. The Fury uses the phenolic ferrule/phenolic tip set-up, and is DEFINITELY a J/B cue, and NOT a player! Knowing the history behind LePro's lack of dependable tip consistency, now you see why I think Fury wins this comparison HANDS-DOWN!

So, pwh, as it looks to me you are looking for a decent guarantee of performance, are not concerned particularly about accuracy but mostly speed, and are looking to "stay on the safe side" of your purchase,

the FURY,

as John Barton and gpeezy suggested, would MOST DEFINITELY be my own FIRST CHOICE in your situation. The one currently offered for $143 at Platinum billiards is, by no means, just a "basic" model. It's pretty spiffy and, at that price, is certainly the one I'd buy! I already shopped around for prices on this cue several weeks ago, and the $143 is the lowest, on this particular model (Fury JB-BS), that I could find, although a few other popular dealers matched this price on this same model. Here is a "compressed" link directly to Platinum Billiards' info/purchase link on the Fury JB-BS cue:

http://tinyurl.com/2cp6ur

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do! :) :) :)
 
By the way, I forgot to mention that the Gulyassy X-Breaker is also, along with J&J, one of the cues NOT on the Platinum Billiards test page. The "X Breaker" you see on that page is the one that was patented and made by Richard Chan, not Gulyassy, although there WAS a certain amount of cooperation between Chan, Gulyassy and Samsara on Chan's version of this Break Cue.
 
mailman said:
In view of my previous post, I have to say that I am in complete agreement with "John Barton" and "gpeezy" on the Fury JB being the one to buy. A slight step after the Pred. BK2 and the Mezz Power Break 2 comes comes about 8 cues that all performed relatively closely, with Fury, Scorpion and CueTec at the top of that list. The Scorpion and CueTec are in the same price range as the Fury (ca. $140-$150 at Platinum Billiards).

Additionally, there is one other chinese-made jump/break cue that is VERY POPULAR and well-liked by those who have used them, but does NOT appear in the Platinum Billiards tests. This would be any one of the various $75-$90 J&J models. J&J is a highly reputable American-owned and USA-based distributor with reputable and dependable equipment. Much of the stuff it sells that is made in China, is made under J&J's own license, supervision and quality control before it is even shipped to the USA.

This is extremely similar to, if not exactly the same as, the highly-reputable conditions of pool equipment manufacture with which John Barton deals. Time is quickly passing by wherein folks can, anymore, look down their collective noses at Chinese-made equipment. The J&J J/B cues can be found here:

http://www.jjcue.com/jjcue-jumpbkcue.htm

In actuality, in spite of the slight test differences between the Fury JB and the Pred. BK2, the Fury JB performs CONSISTENTLY, and it also performs closely enough in the speed test that 99.44% of us would never notice the difference -- even if we could switch back and forth between them over an extended period of time.

Thus, the whole thing comes down to SUBJECTIVE, rather than objective, opinion on relative performance -- what feels great to one person feels totally wrong to the next. John Barton pointed this out, in a similar way, in one of his posts.

I, myself, several weeks ago, was in a toss-up over whether to buy the Fury JB or one of the J&Js (I was leaning toward the Fury). Instead, I had a brainstorm about one of my really old cues (a late 1960's H. Betti) that happens to have an ORIGINAL flat-laminated shaft with a replacement Ivorine III ferrule on it. I will be modifying this slightly and then tipping it with one of Joe Picone's White Diamond tips. OK, so I like to tinker :D :D :D

I have heard a LOT of VERY POSITIVE feedback about the performance of the Pred. BK2, the Scorpion, the Gulyassy X-Breaker, Kevin Varney's breakers, the Fury JB and J&J's various J/B cues. Some, but not much about anything else, but this is more likely an issue of total population distribution rather than performance. That is to say, there are probably quite a few other cues out there that perform as well as any of these -- we just haven't heard the "raves," yet.

I actually seem to hear the most about the Fury and the Scorpion, overall. I have actually had both of these in my hand (haven't used them). The ferrule/tip set-up on the Fury, for the SPECIFIC purpose of jumping and breaking, is far superior, IMHO, to that of the Scorpion.

The Scorpion uses a fiber ferrule and a press-hardened uni-layer leather LePro tip and, to me, is more of a playing cue than it is a J/B. The Fury uses the phenolic ferrule/phenolic tip set-up, and is DEFINITELY a J/B cue, and NOT a player! Knowing the history behind LePro's lack of dependable tip consistency, now you see why I think Fury wins this comparison HANDS-DOWN!

So, pwh, as it looks to me you are looking for a decent guarantee of performance, are not concerned particularly about accuracy but mostly speed, and are looking to "stay on the safe side" of your purchase,

the FURY,

as John Barton and gpeezy suggested, would MOST DEFINITELY be my own FIRST CHOICE in your situation. The one currently offered for $143 at Platinum billiards is, by no means, just a "basic" model. It's pretty spiffy and, at that price, is certainly the one I'd buy! I already shopped around for prices on this cue several weeks ago, and the $143 is the lowest, on this particular model (Fury JB-BS), that I could find, although a few other popular dealers matched this price on this same model. Here is a "compressed" link directly to Platinum Billiards' info/purchase link on the Fury JB-BS cue:

http://tinyurl.com/2cp6ur

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do! :) :) :)
Click to expand...

Hey Mailman, I do agree with you on most of what you said, I am located in Lakewood, Washington. First let me say, the Asian Imports do give you allot of bang for the Buck, however, they do not stand up to American made products where Quality materials. Stop by my pool room sometime and I will show you how well they are made. I have a number of them that have been broke, that I have disassembled to show people the quality materials used in their construction. Such, as plastic, where Phenolic should have been used, wood that were not properly cured and warps, Shaft wood that grades b- to c, Adhesives that are very temperature sensitive and will loosen or come completely lose if left in a car truck, finishes that are thin and do not adhere to stains, and I could go on and on.

Next J&J America is a good company to deal with, and I do sell their merchandise in my Pro-shop. However, they are not an American Company as you stated, they are in fact a company from China based in the USA, and the entire staff is from China. Now I have no problem with this, or with any of the other import products, they are a good buy for the money, and they give those with limited funds and new players an option when making a purchase.

However, my only problem is when people try to portray these items as equal to, or higher quality than American made products. But in this thread, all the products named are Asian made anyway!!!!!
 
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Not to make a whole Asian "Quality" thing again but - always a but - we need to remember a few things -

1. Japan is part of Asia and some pretty high quality cues coem from there.
2. The Phillipines is in Asia and some pretty sporty cues come from there.
3. Taiwan and China have some pretty nice cues as well.

BUT you are right about the general quality having been lower for the last 20 years on cues that were made in Taiwan and China. However you can trace a definite rise in quality over the last ten years that continues today.

This is due primarily to the Chinese learning and implementing the very same techniques to produce cues that their US counterparts have perfected. It is due to having good input from the likes of Bill Stroud and other well known cuemakers. And it is due to the demands of the distributors who have to answer to their customers.

I personally wish to see a day when products are totally judged on their merit and nothing else. But I understand that reputation must be earned and China has many millions of cues to overcome before they are accepted as equals in the cue business. I predict that the future will see mergers between existing American companies and Chinese companies that will benefit both sides and the consumer.

I want to leave you with an anecdote from my earliest days in this business and my dealings with someone who is now an icon in the business.

When I got out of the military I wanted to stay in Germany and had to come back to the USA to process out. One of my friends in Germany owned a poolroom and gave me money to buy some cues for him. I bought ten Pechauers from Andy Grubbs at Starcade Billiards in Ft. Walton Beach Florida. Andy gave them to me at 10% over cost.

I took them home and inspected them all and found that the joints on almost all of them were screwing off. I went to Andy and he called Pechauer and we sent the cues in - got them fixed and sent back within about a week and that was that. The point of the story is that quaity issues can happen to anyone. Since then Pechauer cues are practically indestructable and I have done more business with them over the years.

It's all about evolution and those that don't improve to satisfy the customer will perish. The Chinese know this and are striving to build cues that truly are the equal of anything built anywhere else.
 
Mad Bob.

Ahhh, just buy a Madison Bob J/B from Bob Griffin (Griffith?) in Indiana. Maybe help keep one pool room open as a side product. BTW, it jumps and breaks great.
Personally, I don't care if the Chinese make as good a product for less money. I'll do my little bit to float our economy. We can't keep on importing forever without going bankrupt. There is enough we have to import, we should avoid it where we can.
 
Since I have no vested interest in the sales of any cue by any cue maker but I have played a few of the questioned cues I will voice my opinion.

For about 5 years I played a Predator BK and then had a shaft referruled with a phenolic tip/ferrule. It hit great. Much better, IMHO, than a BK2.

About 3 months ago I switched to a Gulyassy JB. Love it. I can control the cue ball very well, perhaps not as well as the Predator, and it seems to hit a bit harder and as a result I am pocketing more balls easier.

Shortly after acquiring the Gulyassy I had the chance to try out a Varney JB. By far the best break cue I have ever tried. I hits "a ton" as many would say and you get effortless spreads. The tip/ferrule is truly unique as it is excellent for jumping and breaking without sacrificing anything for either.

I have tried an older X-Breaker. It jumps unbelieveably but I wasn't fond of the thicker taper and found, by comparison, that the hit was a little dead. I couldn't argue the results, it did break well, but the feeling was not one I could get used to.

Lightning Bolt. I am not sure why someone would buy one, but I have seen some players that use them that really like them. If you have a speed break not relying on power you may like this cue. It jumps very well as that even as a whole cue it weighs nearly nothing. Not my cup of tea.

J&J JB. Without question, IMHO, the best "bang for the buck" cue I have tried. It delivers a powerful break and jumps well. I did notice that the shaft had a little more "give" than I would have liked, hence I was losing the CB more than with the other "higher end" breakers. But in the end, for anyone who is looking to improve their break and spend under $100 this is, again in my opinion, the cue for you.

Aska makes a decent JB as well. It has a short tip/ferrule combo and is relatively well balanced. It wouldn't be in my top 5 but it deserves a comment as it did perform higher than I expected from what I feel is a little known company.

Cuetec JB. Another of the good bang for the buck cues. I had one for several years before going to a Falcon JB. Cuetec is great as that it is maintenance free and will stay straight and hit relatively the same for years to come.

Falcon JB. My second break cue was a Falcon JB. As for a jumper it didn't stack up evenly with the others noted above, but I found it was decent to break with. For someone who doesn't want a phenolic tip/ferrule this is a good cue.

And that concludes my list of cues I have tried. In order of my preference I would select in the following order:

1) Varney
2) Gulyassy
3) Predator
4) X-Breaker
5) J&J
 
PoolSponge said:
Lightning Bolt. I am not sure why someone would buy one, but I have seen some players that use them that really like them. If you have a speed break not relying on power you may like this cue. It jumps very well as that even as a whole cue it weighs nearly nothing. Not my cup of tea.
PoolSponge said:
Speed=Power
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
You might feel speed equalls power, but I will then ask you this. Which hurts more, getting hit by a bicycle doing 40mph or a truck doing 35mph?

I have heard the debate, and been a part of it, speaking to the point that with the Lightning Bolt that because it weighs so little and has less mass it is easier to control the CB as that a miss hit has a lessened effect. Does it? Perhaps. For me and the way I stroke my break I really notice the lack of mass and weight to the cue and have not even once matched what I can do with my break cue. I can, granted, break with it ok should I disengage my entire upper and lower body power moves and simply use a snap break which is pretty much wrist only.

To be truthful I have found better success with the LB playing 9 ball than playing 8 ball. But then again, cues are very individual and everyone likes different things. The LB is not for me.
 
Asian made products may have decent or good quality, but why not keep the money in the USA and support an American trying to make a living?
 
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