Where are production cues made ?

my thoughts

If I had my way, all items would be clearly identified with their country of origin. If an item
consisted of parts and/or labor from different countries, this would be stated as well.

I find it somewhat deceptive to hide this data from the consumer in any fashion. This includes
the use of "microscopic" text, etc., on labels. I have surprised many folks in the past
by informing them where a particular item was manufactured, even though it displayed a label with
words such as "Authentic American".

I was told not long ago that Lucasi is making Predator...all but the ferrules and tips. Kind of makes sense if you look at the designs and uni-loc joints. Now, who makes Lucasi?...I think it's a company called Hang Yung? I may have butchered the name. I learned this not long ago after I heard a guy ragging on Lucasi cues while playing with a Predator. Once he found out they come off the same assembly line he didn't say much more.

mjantti said:

A short question. I know most of the cues are made in Asia, usually in China I think. Any major production cue brand that is still made entirely in the USA ? McDermott ? Where and who is making Predator cues currently ? I think Falcon made Predator butts for awhile but I think that's not the case anymore. Feel free to give any thoughts on this subject.

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As best as I know, McDermotts are still made in Wisconsin, along with Schons, Vikings, Pechaeurs, Schmelke, and a few more. I don't know if they are entirely made in the U.S. but they make it seem like they are.

Gerry said:

I was told not long ago that Lucasi is making Predator...all but the ferrules and tips. Kind of makes sense if you look at the designs and uni-loc joints. Now, who makes Lucasi?...I think it's a company called Hang Yung? I may have butchered the name. I learned this not long ago after I heard a guy ragging on Lucasi cues while playing with a Predator. Once he found out they come off the same assembly line he didn't say much more.

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Quite a whie back I bought a Predator/w/Z shaft and a Lucasi at same time.
Shafts were inter-changable, both came with almost same cloth case.
Made me think same source.

rossaroni said:

As best as I know, McDermotts are still made in Wisconsin, along with Schons, Vikings, Pechaeurs, Schmelke, and a few more. I don't know if they are entirely made in the U.S. but they make it seem like they are.

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What about Joss? Anybody know?

I'm surprised I can't find out where Joss cues are made

I forgot about Joss, since I have not owned one in over 10 years. You got me curious,
and I'm surprised I can't find out where Joss cues are made online!

I went to http://www.josscues.com/html/about_us.html and read some great info.
You "avatar-loving" folks will love the new addition to the Joss team, shown at the bottom
of that page, I (almost) guarantee!

There, I read that Dan was inducted into The American Cue makers Association hall of fame.
I then went to http://www.cuemakers.org/ where I read:

"The American Cuemaker's Association(ACA) was formed in 1992 to promote the
American made cue as a unique collectable art form."

In the end, I'm left with the question as to what constitutes an "American made cue" however.

mjantti said:

A short question. I know most of the cues are made in Asia, usually in China I think. Any major production cue brand that is still made entirely in the USA ? McDermott ? Where and who is making Predator cues currently ? I think Falcon made Predator butts for awhile but I think that's not the case anymore. Feel free to give any thoughts on this subject.

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I am surprised to see this thread started by a European. Generally, I get the impression Europeans are much more open to globalization.
I try mightily to buy American, but it is getting more and more difficult. I believe everybody should buy from their own nation whenever possible even if it means spending a little more. Alas, I'm in the minority on this point. Of course, you probably don't have a lot of Finnish cuemakers to choose from.
At least I know where custom cues are made. As to the rest of them, I no longer trust what I read.

mjantti said:

That's my point. I want to know the truth behind the image, brand and marketing. Nowadays I'm so cynical that a label "made in XXX" means actually "assembled in XXX" while the parts have not necessarily been made in XXX.

Look at cars for instance. Many cars are nowadays assembled in some country while 3-4 different countries and factories provide the parts. It's hard to put a "made in XXX" label on them anymore. Globalization... sigh...

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Seeing how a lot of the wood used is from Africa and countries similar, I doubt that many cues are 100% sourced and made in the US. I do remember my Joss from 15yr ago had a "Made in the US" tag when new. But maybe just the tag was made in the US

Production cues...........where are they made?

I believe Jacoby cues are U.S.A. (Wis.)
I too think the origin of main parts and assembly should be noted.

AFAIK, Predator have moved production to Taiwan or China some time ago. Falcon did that last year probably (try searching for Fullcan Cues, it is a Taiwanese company dealing with the brand).

catscradle said:

At least I know where custom cues are made.

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Yes, that's true. American or cuemakers from other countries hardly move to China to assemble their cues

Schon Wisconsin
Mcdermott Wisconsin
Pechauer Wisconsin
Jacoby Wisconsin
Jackson Wisconsin
Dale Perry Florida

mjantti said:

I have to say, that although I brought up the globalization, but my main concern is on the quality of cues and how it is (has been) going down lately.

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I don't quite follow you?

How has the overall quality of cues gone down?

In our factory in China we use maple from the USA and Canada. All the wood is turned many times and rested between turns. Wood that is going into cues today arrived at the factory 3 years ago. All the shaft wood is hung up vertically after the initial turning. The production is state of the art with climate controlled rooms and CNC milling machines at nearly every step. On top of that the cues are inspected several times at each step.

Having been in the business for 20 years I would say that it is incredibly difficult to purchase a "bad" cue these days. Even the ones at Wal-Mart and K-mart are half decent - or at least you have about a 50% chance to pick a half decent one.

McDermott, Viking, Pechauer, Jacoby, Joss, Schon, Jerry Olivier, are just a few American cuemakers producing world class cues. In China, we, Kao Kao, produce a fair number of top brands of top quality cues. Taican produces the Lucasi line and other brands and does a great job of it.

Mezz Cues in Japan produces top quality cues, Adams does as well.

I would like some more specifics on the "decline" in quality because I don't see it. In my opinion and experience cuemakers now both large and small are at a convergence of knowledge and technology with both having equal access to the raw materials and machines needed to build great cues.

I have seen nothing but increases in quality over the years. Labeling aside , globalization aside, if you simply did true quality tests with no name brands no origin stereotypes I think that a lot of cues that get a bad rap would emerge as truly good values for the money based solely on their relatively high quality and relatively low price.

I have yet to see anyone come up with any kind of a definition of a good cue that we all can agree on. Where is the benchmark? What are the characteristics?

Cue?
How about POOL TABLES?

catscradle said:

I am surprised to see this thread started by a European. Generally, I get the impression Europeans are much more open to globalization.
I try mightily to buy American, but it is getting more and more difficult. I believe everybody should buy from their own nation whenever possible even if it means spending a little more. Alas, I'm in the minority on this point. Of course, you probably don't have a lot of Finnish cuemakers to choose from.
At least I know where custom cues are made. As to the rest of them, I no longer trust what I read.

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You probably don't remember Weir cues? Robert Weir was an American who had cues made by Adams and passed them off as his own production, made in USA.

The cues were nice and everyone liked the hit and such but of course Weir's rep was shot when folks found out they were buying an overseas production cue for custom prices.

I wonder though how the American cuemakers would feel if the Japanese and Taiwanese had decided to not buy American. I predict a lot of high profile cuemakers would have gone out of business a long time ago without that business.

another problem with the cues created in Asia (even made of fine woods imported from the US and Canada) could be different humidity. It could be so that a cue is intended to be used where it was created, otherwise it tends to get warped. I've seen several such cues made in Asia (one of them being Mezz which got warped when it arrived to Russia and got back straight when it was brought to the States).
I think it is not a matter of "buying American" for the sake of it, but there is quality behind (and an example given).

hondo said:

What about Joss? Anybody know?

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Dan started Joss Cues with a partner in 1968.
In 1972 Dan took full control of the business and continues to make the original Joss Cue in Towson, Maryland.

All Joss cues are made in Towson, MD., USA! Dan has had the same shop for many years. He is one of only 10 cue makers in the ACA Hall of Fame.
This rumor may have been started by McDermott because they import thousands of cues from CHINA. The McBlud and the Sledgehammer are two that I know about.

If you want a USA made cue, buy JOSS!
Purdman
Authorized Joss Distributor

Purdman said:

Dan started Joss Cues with a partner in 1968.
In 1972 Dan took full control of the business and continues to make the original Joss Cue in Towson, Maryland.

All Joss cues are made in Towson, MD., USA! Dan has had the same shop for many years. He is one of only 10 cue makers in the ACA Hall of Fame.
This rumor may have been started by McDermott because they import thousands of cues from CHINA. The McBlud and the Sledgehammer are two that I know about.

If you want a USA made cue, buy JOSS!
Purdman
Authorized Joss Distributor

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Well that seems a pretty definitive statement. lol. I guess Joss cues ARE made in the USA 100%.