What Do You Consider?

I consider an A player someone who will run multiple racks a night, will play a good safety 90% of the time, and will run out in 9-ball from the three ball 85% of the time.

Try a search

The search engine isn't the greatest but player ratings come up at least several times a year so you should find some good threads and I think a poll or two.

My thoughts are that "A" is directly under "Shortstop" and can take down a shortstop sometimes. A shortstop can take down any player in the world sometimes, on the shortstop's home turf and in his chosen games. Get a shortstop off of his home turf and the odds are a little longer although a smart shortstop can easily go on the road.

The "A" player should be able to win weekly tournaments fairly easily and have a decent run at the larger area tournaments played every month or three, taking down a few a year if he plays in them regularly. He can beat anyone in a short tournament race and could possibly beat a big name player in gambling sets on a given day but the odds are long against him.

"B" and below gets more and more blurred and I'm going to quit at this level. I'm an "S" level player myself.

Hu

Rankings:

A. Champion caliber. Capable of winning professional pool tournaments, regional tour events, a player who nobody likes to draw on the charts.

B. Shortstop. Strong player with a consistent game who executes some shots with proficiency, but has limited capabilities and needs to fatten up his/her arsenal with more strategies to win.

C. Lobster. A player who enjoys hitting balls around and sometimes has moments of glory. Not consistent.

D. Ball banger. Someone who likes to hit balls around, enjoys the game, but usually can't run three balls in a row.

E. Nit. A braggart who can't shoot a lick, but likes to brag about how great their game is. It is a rarity to see nits play pool. Usually they are all talk.

F. Railbird. Doesn't play at all and isn't afraid to say so, loves to watch pool and can usually be seen sitting for hours on end in the stands.

JAM

agree on both counts

Nine Ball said:

I can agree with some of that.. Yet how far is an "A" under shortstop & how far is a shortstop under a Pro..

This could turn out to be an interesting thread.. It has potential..

You get this kind of junk from me when I been up all night and can't sleep.

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When I can't sleep gets me into some interesting threads and occasionally into deep doodoo!

You pose the question with no answers when you ask how far apart the levels are. In truth they all overlap. On a bad day an "A" player may play more like a "C" player or worse, on a rare day when all the stars align they may take down a top pro even when the pro is playing well. When you start talking about the line between only one level and the next higher or lower, there is no way to sharply define it in my opinion. Trying to describe it in physical abilities doesn't really work because of the endless variables in equipment. The best way I know to define classes is by who usually beats who and since that is only usually the lines are very blurry.

Hu

My hierarchy:

Champion - world class player and winner of professional events, may set records at times and become figures of lore and fascination (SVB, Alex, Schmidt)

Jam up - below champion, but can come out some nights and tear into anyone (champions included), likely to run entire sets out (Hennessee)

A Player - state championship contender, multiple rack runner, may see a seven pack every once in a while (not going to knock anyone)

Shortstop - below A player; shows flashes of brilliance; will only beat a Jam up or Champion player with good weight or as a fluke (Tedder)

B player - best player in league play not classified above; usually will need the 7 from a shortstop

iba7467 said:

Champion - world class player and winner of professional events, may set records at times and become figures of lore and fascination (SVB, Alex, Schmidt)

Jam up - below champion, but can come out some nights and tear into anyone (champions included), likely to run entire sets out (Hennessee)

A Player - state championship contender, multiple rack runner, may see a seven pack every once in a while (not going to knock anyone)

Shortstop - below A player; shows flashes of brilliance; will only beat a Jam up or Champion player with good weight or as a fluke (Tedder)

B player - best player in league play not classified above; usually will need the 7 from a shortstop

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You do have a way with words. I like your style!

JAM

IMHO most of the opinions in the above posts are still too nebulous and subjective. And even though a lot of people don't play straight pool, I think that game should be the basis for a ratings system.
Example- AA-can run multiple racks,up to 100 balls
A-multiple racks,60 balls tops
B+ 3 racks tops
B, 1-2 racks occasionally
B-,can run a rack
C, can run6-8 balls
I'd like Jay Helfert's opinion if you read this post

What's that make me if I'm in between a lobster and a shortstop? A Lobstop... or a Shortster....

Anyway, Nine I never could get that 10-150 thing when I was down there I was used to AAA, AA...etc. They kept telling me I had to start at 145 or 135 and lose my way down...

Nine Ball said:

I can agree with some of that.. Yet how far is an "A" under shortstop & how far is a shortstop under a Pro..

This could turn out to be an interesting thread.. It has potential..

You get this kind of junk from me when I been up all night and can't sleep.

Click to expand...

IMOP the difference between pro, shortstop, and A player can be a much finer line than you might think. I have seen many shortstops over the years who at times looked like world champs. The likes of Craig Stevens, Terry Bell, Bobby Madrid and a couple I wish not to offend.

The same can be said for many A players sho have given these guys fits at on time or another. I have seen many good A players who had jobs and families and made different choices {good choices} but had they put the time in and payed the price, well no telling what they could have done.

I remember a speech Julius Erving {Dr J} made one time and he stated that there were maybe 200 kids in or around NYC who should be playing in the NBA right now. He furtherly stated that the only difference between them and himself was that he could play at that level everyday. This might apply to many shortstops.

JAM said:

Rankings:

A. Champion caliber. Capable of winning professional pool tournaments, regional tour events, a player who nobody likes to draw on the charts.

B. Shortstop. Strong player with a consistent game who executes some shots with proficiency, but has limited capabilities and needs to fatten up his/her arsenal with more strategies to win.

C. Lobster. A player who enjoys hitting balls around and sometimes has moments of glory. Not consistent.

D. Ball banger. Someone who likes to hit balls around, enjoys the game, but usually can't run three balls in a row.

E. Nit. A braggart who can't shoot a lick, but likes to brag about how great their game is. It is a rarity to see nits play pool. Usually they are all talk.

F. Railbird. Doesn't play at all and isn't afraid to say so, loves to watch pool and can usually be seen sitting for hours on end in the stands.

JAM

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lol, guess that would make me a Lobstopanger, or Shortlobstanger.

Hey, I'm a Lobster, I like that! I've always been fond of crustaceans!

iba7467 said:

Champion - world class player and winner of professional events, may set records at times and become figures of lore and fascination (SVB, Alex, Schmidt)

Jam up - below champion, but can come out some nights and tear into anyone (champions included), likely to run entire sets out (Hennessee)

A Player - state championship contender, multiple rack runner, may see a seven pack every once in a while (not going to knock anyone)

Shortstop - below A player; shows flashes of brilliance; will only beat a Jam up or Champion player with good weight or as a fluke (Tedder)

B player - best player in league play not classified above; usually will need the 7 from a shortstop

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Curious classification. I would almost exactly reverse your definitions of Shortstop and A player. There's LOTS of A players in any given state, but not nearly as many shortstops. I think thta when it comes to playing champions, there is basically no difference between a shortstop and an A player.

I think Grady and Danny would agree, as they have said multiple times on tape that a shortstop is only expected to get to 3-5 games against a champion. And I think that only the rare shortstop is going to have any chance at a state championship.

If I were to classify Tedder, from what I have heard of his play, it would be as an A player, and Justin Cone would be a shortstop. I would never bet on Tedder to have a chance against Justin in ANY game. That is not because of any shotmaking I have seen from him, but because he is a guy who can come with a tough shot hill-hill for the entire set, and Tedder supposedly is not gonna do that as often against a strong player.

Guys that can come with the long, tough shot and run out when it is hill-hill always beat guys like Tedder, in the end. JMHO.

Russ

Nine Ball said:

Who told you a shortstop was below an "A" player?

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A shortstop is considered lower than an "A" player...otherwise they would be an "A" player.

Southpaw

fan-tum said:

IMHO most of the opinions in the above posts are still too nebulous and subjective. And even though a lot of people don't play straight pool, I think that game should be the basis for a ratings system.
Example- AA-can run multiple racks,up to 100 balls
A-multiple racks,60 balls tops
B+ 3 racks tops
B, 1-2 racks occasionally
B-,can run a rack
C, can run6-8 balls
I'd like Jay Helfert's opinion if you read this post

Click to expand...

I would agree with this as it pertains to straight pool but I wouldn't rank a player *just* on their straight pool abilities. I'm a perfect example of that. I play 9-ball well enough to hold my own and I'm not afraid of who I would draw in a tournament. Toss me into 14.1 though and I dog shots left and right and would easily be considered a B minus or a B according to your scale. Going into a 9-ball tournament I have an even chance to win. Going into a straight pool tournament I know I'm going to enjoy myself for the day and go home empty handed.

Maybe an A player should be someone that can handle themselves in various games and not just 9-ball or straight pool. Although I feel that if you play good straight pool you can probably play good 9-ball. A good 9-ball player may not fare too well in straight pool.

Straight pool is the greatest game on the table hands down. I only wish I had someone really good at it around it here to teach me more about it.
MULLY

Southpaw said:

A shortstop is considered lower than an "A" player...otherwise they would be an "A" player.

Southpaw

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I disagree.. This thread is the first time I have ever seen a shortstop player rated lower than an "A" player.

The "shortstop" classification covers players above A players (who are not capable of competing outside of their regions..) but below strong regional pros.

To compare these classifications to the NorthWest players I knew...

Jerry Van Sherrel
Troy Van Winkle
Tor Lowry
Tim Tweedel
Don Mckay
Al Perez
Brady Gollan

Are all "A" players. Capable of stringing multiple racks, and winning smaller regional tourneys.

Kris Iverson (iffy)
Raul Abenojar
Bob Zack
Todd Marsh
J.D.

Would be shortstops.. All of them are capable of winning a larger event in the region, and might even catch a groove and beat a road player travelling through.

A notch above these guys...

Michael Zimmerman (back a few years ago..)
Stan Tourangeau
Glenn Atwell

All these players are a strong favorite to win any regional event they enter. They have won multiple regional titles, and have in some cases, won National titles, in Master or GrandMaster divisions in league play. Definitely not the favorite when matching up with a champion, but are considered stone champions in their respective regions.

I think most people agree shortstops are a tad bit above A players.

Russ