Another rules question

[Hard Knock Cues]

I'm going to have to read that after a good night's rest. This would have made better matj word problems than "if Johnny has six oranges and twelve apples...

"If Billy spots Danny ten points and runs two racks..."

I thought the same thing last night when I read it, might be a little too advanced for me or just some local dialect.

 

[DynoDan]

I thought the same thing last night when I read it, might be a little too advanced for me or just some local dialect.

It’s all rather intuitive (and obvious) once you start using the beads. Gets easier with practice.

BTW: Something not discussed is the actual ‘vocal’ calling-the-pocket on every shot in straight pool (a la the ‘ref’, rack-boy, or whoever is sliding the beads/calling the score in the ‘HUSTLER’ movie). Like it’s not obvious, or as if a player would likely cheat and claim he actually meant to pocket a ball where he WASN’T aiming!
A bit of ‘overkill’ IMO, and likely only necessary on complicated shots (combos, banks, etc.).

 

[Bob Jewett]

It’s all rather intuitive (and obvious) once you start using the beads. Gets easier with practice.

BTW: Something not discussed is the actual ‘vocal’ calling-the-pocket on every shot in straight pool (a la the ‘ref’, rack-boy, or whoever is sliding the beads/calling the score in the ‘HUSTLER’ movie). Like it’s not obvious, or as if a player would likely cheat and claim he actually meant to pocket a ball where he WASN’T aiming!
A bit of ‘overkill’ IMO, and likely only necessary on complicated shots (combos, banks, etc.).

Yes, using the beads is dead simple with a little practice. So is counting the balls quickly which is also useful at one pocket.

I've run into a number of fairly experienced players who did the call-every-shot thing. Maybe they had played against opponents who would quickly say, "You didn't call that," otherwise.

Writing a rule to cover "not calling obvious shots" is hard. I've seen rules that basically said you had to call all banks, combos and kiss shots. Well, suppose your break shot misses badly but goes four rails around the table. That's a bank shot that you didn't call. I guess in a case like that you have to assume the obvious simple shot was the intention since there was no call. Similarly, your object ball might nick a ball on the way to the pocket but it wasn't an uncalled kiss shot.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I'm going to have to read that after a good night's rest. This would have made better matj word problems than "if Johnny has six oranges and twelve apples...

It's nothing compared to what snooker players have to do. The score is 62-23 so Ronnie is 39 behind with two reds left on the table. Black is tied up for the time being. What colors can he take with the two reds and still score 40 points if he clears the table? Answer: he can take a pink and a blue. That will give him 13 plus the 27 for taking all the colors for 40 total. And Ronnie does that in his head in front of a thousand people.

Maybe a picture will help:

 

[tomatoshooter]

3+14+14+7 = run of 38

I don't think that will be necessary anytime soon.

I got some rest and shot a couple of racks,, it's clear now. Thanks for sharing your wisdom and experience.

 

[DynoDan]

Yes, using the beads is dead simple with a little practice. So is counting the balls quickly which is also useful at one pocket.

I've run into a number of fairly experienced players who did the call-every-shot thing. Maybe they had played against opponents who would quickly say, "You didn't call that," otherwise.

Writing a rule to cover "not calling obvious shots" is hard. I've seen rules that basically said you had to call all banks, combos and kiss shots. Well, suppose your break shot misses badly but goes four rails around the table. That's a bank shot that you didn't call. I guess in a case like that you have to assume the obvious simple shot was the intention since there was no call. Similarly, your object ball might nick a ball on the way to the pocket but it wasn't an uncalled kiss shot.

I wasn‘t aware there was any ‘official’ game that requires calling more than just the pocket (?). The missed ‘4-rail-around-the-table’ shot that drops in the pocket I was aiming at shouldn’t spark any controversy in 14.1. Disgust (my opponent) maybe. Glee (me) for sure!
Caroms & combos are not so clear though as to which ball you intend to pocket, and the pocket must always be designated on any bank involving more than one cushion (exclaiming “I meant two rails”, and exhibiting an insulted expression usually won’t suffice).

 

[Hard Knock Cues]

I wasn‘t aware there was any ‘official’ game that requires calling more than just the pocket (?). The missed ‘4-rail-around-the-table’ shot that drops in the pocket I was aiming at shouldn’t spark any controversy in 14.1. Disgust (my opponent) maybe. Glee (me) for sure!
Caroms & combos are not so clear though as to which ball you intend to pocket, and the pocket must always be designated on any bank involving more than one cushion (exclaiming “I meant two rails”, and exhibiting an insulted expression usually won’t suffice).

I guess it's all about the skill levels playing. We don't require any call but OB and pocket. I can see where the more advanced players will expect a more accurate call of the intended shot.
It's still a gateway game to all others no matter how you play it.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I wasn‘t aware there was any ‘official’ game that requires calling more than just the pocket (?). The missed ‘4-rail-around-the-table’ shot that drops in the pocket I was aiming at shouldn’t spark any controversy in 14.1. Disgust (my opponent) maybe. Glee (me) for sure!
...

Yes, it is always sufficient to just call ball and pocket and any way the ball gets in is fine. (Bank pool is the obvious exception. And bar rules are not even remotely in the discussion.) The problem occurs when the ball doesn't go "cleanly" like the 4-railer break shot. Depending on how the "call shot" rules are written concerning "non-obvious" shots, the shot could technically be disallowed.

By some rule sets, if you are playing an obvious combination it must be called. Under the WSR the requirement is that the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made. Under CSI rules we have:

When playing call shot games, remember that shots defined as not obvious, and safeties, must be explicitly called. There are no exceptions under any circumstances, regardless of how simple or obvious the shot may appear. ...​

​

4. You must always call shots that are defined as not obvious. This rule applies regardless of whether or not your opponent asks about the shot, and regardless of how simple or obvious the shot may appear.​

​

I think this means that if you can either cut a ball into the pocket or shoot straight at the ball and make it in the pocket by kissing off a nearby ball, and you say nothing and play the kiss shot, the shot is disallowed under CSI rules.

Also under CSI rules, if the 7 is sitting right in the middle of the pocket, and you roll the 6 onto the 7 to make the 7, you better have explicitly called the 7. The ref is not allowed to judge intent in that case.

 

[tomatoshooter]

exclaiming “I meant two rails”, and exhibiting an insulted expression usually won’t suffice).

I typically say that I didn't want to insult a player of their skill and experience because they would know that caroming the ball and banking three rails of the proper shot choice.