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Bobby
03-02-2005, 11:43 PM
Does anyone know of a website that lists the
winners of all the past 9-ball World Championships?
And all the past championship winners in 14.1 and
one pocket? In any other sport it's easy to find
records of ALL past winners but with pool there
seems to be nothing. I mean I know Mizerak has
many titles as well as Earl but I'd like to see an
official list going all the way back. Thanks.

JAM
03-02-2005, 11:49 PM
Good luck, Bobby. I'll be following this thread to see the results. I've been gathering pool-related data for some time now, and there is very little out there about not only stats, but about the players themselves. Some things can only be obtained through the mouths of those who were there. :(

And just like the game of pocket billiards, the more you know, the more you realize how much you don't know. :p

JAM

Tex
03-03-2005, 12:03 AM
Does anyone know of a website that lists the
winners of all the past 9-ball World Championships?
And all the past championship winners in 14.1 and
one pocket? In any other sport it's easy to find
records of ALL past winners but with pool there
seems to be nothing. I mean I know Mizerak has
many titles as well as Earl but I'd like to see an
official list going all the way back. Thanks.

Try this
www.worldpoolchampionships.com/event_information.asp

Scroll down to the bottom, it shows winners from 1990-2003
We all know Alex P. won it last year

Bobby
03-03-2005, 12:34 AM
Try this
www.worldpoolchampionships.com/event_information.asp

Scroll down to the bottom, it shows winners from 1990-2003
We all know Alex P. won it last year


I've seen that list, in fact it's listed in an
Encyclopedia Britannica. Thanks anyway Tex.

Bobby
03-03-2005, 12:37 AM
Good luck, Bobby. I'll be following this thread to see the results. I've been gathering pool-related data for some time now, and there is very little out there about not only stats, but about the players themselves. Some things can only be obtained through the mouths of those who were there. :(

And just like the game of pocket billiards, the more you know, the more you realize how much you don't know. :p

JAM

I know what you mean JAM, I've also tried to
gather info over the years but the problem is that
the stats seem to change all the time! Like at
a tournament a player will be announced as being
the 1986 World one-pocket champion but then a year
later they'll say it was 1987. It's frustrating!

Grady
03-03-2005, 05:05 AM
Good luck with finding results. I won the World One Pocket Championships in 83', 84', 85. and 95' but I can't even get those fine events listed in the annual almanacs that come out. Thank god for SteveBooth for starting the One Pocket HOF.

1pocket
03-03-2005, 05:11 AM
Does anyone know of a website that lists the
winners of all the past 9-ball World Championships?
And all the past championship winners in 14.1 and
one pocket? In any other sport it's easy to find
records of ALL past winners but with pool there
seems to be nothing. I mean I know Mizerak has
many titles as well as Earl but I'd like to see an
official list going all the way back. Thanks.Here is a pretty complete list for One Pocket -- still being verified here and there:
http://onepocket.org/records.htm

Of course the BCA has a list, mostly of annual champions. I'm not sure what is on their website, but it's always been in the back of their rule books. Since they are the 'governing body', it must be the 'official' list :)

Billiard Digest used to publish an annual almanac issue that also listed similar championships -- as well as the Stardust and Johnston City winners.

TheOne
03-03-2005, 05:21 AM
I would like to know the 8ball world championship results, I know Efren won it last year but somebody, maybe sjm I don't remember mentioned that they thought 8 ball was Efrens best game since he won the WC 4 times? I think last year was the first year in a while that they held the 8ball WC does anyone know anymore info about this? (BTW I know the UK has an 8ball world Champs but I don't consider this a true world champs given the ball / table size and the limited number of countries that use them)

Please Help?

mjantti
03-03-2005, 05:44 AM
Men, Women, Juniors and Wheelchair can be found here as well as Artistic, Pyramid and 8-ball champs. Though they are missing almost all 8-ball Champs.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=champ

Grady
03-03-2005, 06:58 AM
I don't consider the BCA the governing body. Every year I offer to have a $50,000 added 14.1 event if they'll raise $20,000 for me. They don't even answer me. I have some five star hotels as sites.

mjantti
03-03-2005, 07:04 AM
I don't consider the BCA the governing body. Every year I offer to have a $50,000 added 14.1 event if they'll raise $20,000 for me. They don't even answer me. I have some five star hotels as sites.

Shame on BCA ! The pool scene definitely could use a lot more 14.1 events.

berry
03-03-2005, 07:11 AM
On www.europeanpoolchampionships.com

you can have a look on the past years of the European 8-baal, 9-ball and straightpool champions as wel as medal records of the players.
go to the section:

HALL OF FAME and have a look around.

Blackjack
03-03-2005, 07:31 AM
I don't consider the BCA the governing body. Every year I offer to have a $50,000 added 14.1 event if they'll raise $20,000 for me. They don't even answer me. I have some five star hotels as sites.

That's very typical of "the industry". Grady, you and I have talked for years about how much damage the sport has inflicted upon itself and it never ceases to amaze me how correct we continue to be. When the players realize (like many of us realized back in the 1990's) that no decision is made in their best interests by either the tours, the BCA, or "the industry" than perhaps we will get more TV time than Beach Volleyball and Texas Hold 'em. Grady, for years we have talked about trying to have show produced that would showcase the best money players challenging each other. For years "the industry" has said that the gambling aspect would turn away viewers and reflect poorly upon the game. For 25 years we have been pretending that the gambling doesn't exist. I present to you the World Poker Tour. Successful? I would say so. I find it typical that they would ignore you Grady, mainly because if any strides are to be made to progress our sport (in any direction up or down) they want to take credit for it. That's why they ignore you. Until the industry realizes the marketability of the players (not the products they are selling) we will be at a stand still. Don't feel alone Grady. Remember how I was treated when I spoke out about Mackey and his tobacco deal. I'm still paying for that one - but I still called it!

bruin70
03-03-2005, 11:00 AM
That's very typical of "the industry". Grady, you and I have talked for years about how much damage the sport has inflicted upon itself and it never ceases to amaze me how correct we continue to be. When the players realize (like many of us realized back in the 1990's) that no decision is made in their best interests by either the tours, the BCA, or "the industry" than perhaps we will get more TV time than Beach Volleyball and Texas Hold 'em. Grady, for years we have talked about trying to have show produced that would showcase the best money players challenging each other. For years "the industry" has said that the gambling aspect would turn away viewers and reflect poorly upon the game. For 25 years we have been pretending that the gambling doesn't exist. I present to you the World Poker Tour. Successful? I would say so. I find it typical that they would ignore you Grady, mainly because if any strides are to be made to progress our sport (in any direction up or down) they want to take credit for it. That's why they ignore you. Until the industry realizes the marketability of the players (not the products they are selling) we will be at a stand still. Don't feel alone Grady. Remember how I was treated when I spoke out about Mackey and his tobacco deal. I'm still paying for that one - but I still called it!


the guy who seems(i don't really know the background of tv poker) to be behind televised poker....a guy with a mutache who does the espn color is more than familiar with pool gambling because i read or saw in an interview where he listed poker, horse racing, and pool as the best games/sports. so, it would seem to me you have someone high up in your corner.

poker also happens to be popular because everyone has played it, everyone has playeed some form of card game, you can buy a deck of cards at your local deli/711, you can play it at home around the kitchen table....you get guys like moneymaker winning, and NOW you can play online. there are actually more disimilarities than there are similarities between poker and pool.

there's never been anyone as marketable as jeanette and no one comes close on the men's side and with youngsters like jasmine ouschan coming up,,,so if she can't do it, who can.

cueman
03-03-2005, 11:01 AM
Good luck with finding results. I won the World One Pocket Championships in 83', 84', 85. and 95' but I can't even get those fine events listed in the annual almanacs that come out. Thank god for SteveBooth for starting the One Pocket HOF.
Then there was the World Straight Pool Championship you held during one of the BCA trade shows in Vegas years ago. The magazines hardly even gave it much coverage. By the way who won it? Was it Danny? I watched him run 70 something in it.

bruin70
03-03-2005, 11:06 AM
I don't consider the BCA the governing body. Every year I offer to have a $50,000 added 14.1 event if they'll raise $20,000 for me. They don't even answer me. I have some five star hotels as sites.

have you considered organizing one overseas, where there might be more interest. the US might be a dead end.

Bobby
03-03-2005, 01:58 PM
Good luck with finding results. I won the World One Pocket Championships in 83', 84', 85. and 95' but I can't even get those fine events listed in the annual almanacs that come out. Thank god for SteveBooth for starting the One Pocket HOF.

Thanks for the info Grady, I knew you had won 4
World One Pocket titles but I didn't know the years
until now.

Bobby
03-03-2005, 02:06 PM
Here is a pretty complete list for One Pocket -- still being verified here and there:
http://onepocket.org/records.htm

Of course the BCA has a list, mostly of annual champions. I'm not sure what is on their website, but it's always been in the back of their rule books. Since they are the 'governing body', it must be the 'official' list :)

Billiard Digest used to publish an annual almanac issue that also listed similar championships -- as well as the Stardust and Johnston City winners.

Thanks, that's quite a list! I wasn't even aware of
some f thse events listed.

Grady
03-03-2005, 02:32 PM
Bob Hunter won that tournament. I have considered overseas but the WPA is worse than the BCA. It's bad enough to lose money on every 14.1 event I do , without being charged a sanctioning fee and be told what I can and cannot do.

sjm
03-03-2005, 05:30 PM
I would like to know the 8ball world championship results, I know Efren won it last year but somebody, maybe sjm I don't remember mentioned that they thought 8 ball was Efrens best game since he won the WC 4 times? Please Help?

Yes, The One, that was me. The World 8-ball championship was a standard stop on the PBT, the major tour in men's pro pool before it folded in 1999. In the mid-1990's Efren won two world 8-ball championships back to back on 9-foot tables. I don't recall which ones they were, but I was there for one of them.

The PBT World 8-ball championships were contested at the Riviera in Las Vegas in August, not the recommended month to visit that city. I remember one year when I went, it was 109 degrees when my plane landed, and it was 11:30 PM!

Few of the competitors gave Efren a tougher game than you did!

lewdo26
03-03-2005, 05:48 PM
Men, Women, Juniors and Wheelchair can be found here as well as Artistic, Pyramid and 8-ball champs. Though they are missing almost all 8-ball Champs.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=champ
It's amazing how 8 ball is so completely ignored. I heard quite a few times that Efren isn't all that he's cracked up to be because he's got only one 9-ball WPC, unlike Earl and Archer. But without taking Efren's 8 ball (and the DCC one pocket titles, for that matter) achievements into consideration you're igonoring half of what makes the man the phenomenal all-around player that he is.

For some, however, pool is 9 ball, and 9ball is pool.

sjm
03-03-2005, 07:26 PM
It's amazing how 8 ball is so completely ignored. I heard quite a few times that Efren isn't all that he's cracked up to be because he's got only one 9-ball WPC, unlike Earl and Archer. But without taking Efren's 8 ball (and the DCC one pocket titles, for that matter) achievements into consideration you're igonoring half of what makes the man the phenomenal all-around player that he is.

For some, however, pool is 9 ball, and 9ball is pool.

Great post, Lewdo. I've watched every great player since Lassiter, and the only player that I think merits mention in the same breath as Efren is Mike Sigel. Efren is everything and more than he's cracked up to be.

1pocket
03-04-2005, 06:55 AM
I don't consider the BCA the governing body. Every year I offer to have a $50,000 added 14.1 event if they'll raise $20,000 for me. They don't even answer me. I have some five star hotels as sites.
Maybe I should have said 'the self-procalimed governing body' :)

Their own mission statement fails to even mention "players":

Our Vision: Achieve a united, growing, prosperous and highly regarded billiard industry through BCA leadership.
Our Mission: Enhance the success of our members and promote the game of billiards.

It's a shame that the pool industry association seems to try to so distance themselves from the pro players themselves -- go figure!!

TheOne
03-04-2005, 08:22 AM
Yes, The One, that was me. The World 8-ball championship was a standard stop on the PBT, the major tour in men's pro pool before it folded in 1999. In the mid-1990's Efren won two world 8-ball championships back to back on 9-foot tables. I don't recall which ones they were, but I was there for one of them.

The PBT World 8-ball championships were contested at the Riviera in Las Vegas in August, not the recommended month to visit that city. I remember one year when I went, it was 109 degrees when my plane landed, and it was 11:30 PM!

Few of the competitors gave Efren a tougher game than you did!

Thanks sjm, he still took my cash though lol but well worth the memory. Just watched him play a young vietnamese kid on TV in the San Miguel and sure wish I was allowed to play in it - oh well. I agree about Efren, its funny I grew up with mainly snooker idols like Alex Higgins but over the last few years of following 9ball etc Efren sure seems to stand out from the crowd. 1 pocket, 8 ball and 9 ball, not to mention his asian snooker titles. I would like to see him win another 9ball WC though, that surely would be the cherry on top!

BTW I will be in vegas for the VNEA and Reno for the Open in the summer. I am trying to make it to the BCA (masters singles, dont have a team) which I think you mentioned you are going to. If so it would be good to have a hit? If there's many AZ's going we can all enter the same mini comp, sort of mini AZ cup :-)

lewdo26
03-04-2005, 09:41 AM
Great post, Lewdo. I've watched every great player since Lassiter, and the only player that I think merits mention in the same breath as Efren is Mike Sigel. Efren is everything and more than he's cracked up to be.
How are you, sjm? You know, as I once told you, this year's DCC was the first time I had the opportunity to watch Efren in person. In this particular evening, he was warming up for his one pocket match by simply spreading all 15 balls on the table and running them. That took place over the course of about an hour. Sometimes he would cluster two balls together to make it a little more challenging. A bunch of top pros were sitting around on the floor watching him: Corey Deuel, Mika, Pagulayan, Bustamante, Luat, Sambajon, Gabe Owen...

I must say that I've never witnessed the awe that Efren inspired on other top players. Usually they all possess a "I-too-can-do-it" attitude, and with good reason. Efren ran about 10 racks without a miss, sometimes purposely taking a bank, combo, or some other low percentage shot. Never hesitating more than 30 seconds... More important than what he was doing was the *way* he was doing it.

Mika and Pagulayan would from time to time shake their heads or smirch in astonishment. You should've seen the ease with which Efren ran 150+ consecutive balls... Corey Deuel's jaw was half-way down to the floor.

And there Efren was, hitting some balls before his match... with the casual poise of an aristocrat drinking water.

As you know, sjm, I do not have the benefit of your experience studying the game of top players over the decades. But that evening, it was obvious to all of us who were there, that we were being treated to the work of a much too uniquely gifted individual.

TheOne
03-04-2005, 01:40 PM
interesting link listing many of Efrens titles. He has indeed won 4 8 ball WC, even though I think this list is missing the latest?

Interesting he lists his pool idol as Siguel

http://www.espnstar.com/asian9ball/asian9ball_playerdetails_554942.html

lewdo26
03-04-2005, 05:20 PM
interesting link listing many of Efrens titles. He has indeed won 4 8 ball WC, even though I think this list is missing the latest?

Interesting he lists his pool idol as Siguel

http://www.espnstar.com/asian9ball/asian9ball_playerdetails_554942.html
Great link, The One. An impressive resume, of course. I did wonder before why is it that Efren and those inspired by him used the finger bridge almost exclusively, and thought he may have been influenced by Mike Sigel. Parica uses the pre-Sigel loop bridge.

By the way, I re-read my post and where I wrote "...top players sitting around on the floor..." , read "playing floor." [lol] They were sitting in chairs near the table where Efren was practicing. [more laughs]

On another note, are you back from the Philipines? I noticed you went a few weeks without posting. Too bad you didn't get to play Efren *at chess*, huh? ;) Best regards.

sjm
03-04-2005, 07:14 PM
BTW I will be in vegas for the VNEA and Reno for the Open in the summer. I am trying to make it to the BCA (masters singles, dont have a team) which I think you mentioned you are going to. If so it would be good to have a hit? If there's many AZ's going we can all enter the same mini comp, sort of mini AZ cup :-)

I am definitely going to the BCA Open, to attend the pro event, not to compete. I will most likely arrive on Wednesday, May 18 and will stay for four days. If you'll be there, let me know in advance and we'll arrange to hook up. I'd love to meet you.

Jersey
03-04-2005, 08:38 PM
This is really a sad state of affairs...I have played pool since I was in 7th grade, my grandfather own halls in Chapel Hill, NC...my father was a well known player in NJ when I was growing up...I'm now 40, and while I would say that it has been just a couple of years now since I was introduced to league play...I have been disapointed by the squabbles between different league systems...BCA, APA, TAP, ACS...etc.

I see now that pocket billiards in all its forms is truely a grass roots operation...regardless of tv, national and international tournaments etc...it is us, those people that are in the rooms night after night that continue to make this a great game...

If the 'GREATS' of the game (Mr. Grady Mathews) are being ignored by the industry that they created, so much so that records are not kept and up and coming players are unable to look back and learn, understand and continue the growth of the sport, then whats it all for???...and who is profiting for the current situation we all find our local room owners, 'devoted' league operators and ourselves in???

TheOne
03-05-2005, 01:47 AM
I am definitely going to the BCA Open, to attend the pro event, not to compete. I will most likely arrive on Wednesday, May 18 and will stay for four days. If you'll be there, let me know in advance and we'll arrange to hook up. I'd love to meet you.


For sure sjm, I think theres a very good chance I will be there at the moment. It would be great to meet up, I would also like to watch the Pro event.

TheOne
03-05-2005, 01:52 AM
Great link, The One.
On another note, are you back from the Philipines? I noticed you went a few weeks without posting. Too bad you didn't get to play Efren *at chess*, huh? ;) Best regards.

I'm back in Thailand now but apart from a couple of sessions playing against some swedish guy for small $$ I haven't played much. I'm looking at setting up a business here and its taking up most my time unfortunately. Hope to start playing again soon though.

I really wanted to play him at chess but he had just lost to a guy before I played him at pool and then after we finished playing he went straight back for a rematch so I didn't get a sniff. He was engrossed in his game - he sure wanted his cahs back lol!

Jersey, sure is sad that there are limited records on the web. I can't beleive that there is no central resource fot this? Makes me want to develop one, but I wonder whether there really is the knowledge of past results out there still and if so how easy it would be to obtain?

cueman
03-05-2005, 09:41 AM
It would be a lot of work keeping up with it and I suspect that has a lot to do with it. It would not make the person any money who keeps up with it. But maybe Mike could find someone who just wants to do it and he could make a section here on AZBilliards for World Champions in all cue games. Grady could provide all he knows, the Johnson City results should count also. Only using BCA, old PBT and WPA world events has kept a lot of people who deserve the title World Champion from being recognized. Doesn't the Derby City All around title winner fit the bill of World all Around Champion or at least United States all Around Champion?

sjm
03-05-2005, 10:10 AM
It would be a lot of work keeping up with it and I suspect that has a lot to do with it. It would not make the person any money who keeps up with it. But maybe Mike could find someone who just wants to do it and he could make a section here on AZBilliards for World Champions in all cue games. Grady could provide all he knows, the Johnson City results should count also. Only using BCA, old PBT and WPA world events has kept a lot of people who deserve the title World Champion from being recognized. Doesn't the Derby City All around title winner fit the bill of World all Around Champion or at least United States all Around Champion?

I think we need to be careful here on two counts. 1) Success in events not having truly elite international fields cannot reasonably be viewed as world championships, and 2) We cannot logically proclaim more than one player to have been world champion in a given discipline in any given year.

While Derby City is a magnificent event that just keeps getting better, it doesn't draw a field as elite as any of the US Open, the BCA Open or the WPC. The European and Asian presence at Derby City is modest compared to their presence in those other events.

As for the problem of having only one world champion in each discipline in a given year, it gets tricky. In 1977, who was the world straight pool champion? Was it Allen Hopkins who won the PPPA World Open 14.1 Championship over a very elite field or was it Tem Jennings who won the US Open 14.1 Championship over a very elite field? Sadly, this isn't an easy question to answer.

Renegade
03-06-2005, 11:25 PM
Great lists, everyody. I hope someone tries and consolidates everything in one list. good luck hehe.

amazing as efren's resume is, how come he doesn't have a trickshot championship under his belt? i've seen him on tv make some incredible trickshots....