PDA

View Full Version : New Cloth 'Kicks??' not regular type of kick.


fxskater
03-05-2005, 01:30 PM
Has anyone ever heard of a kick? I don't mean kicking at another ball. I mean the type of shot where the CB contacts the rail with reverse english, but reacts like it has running ienglish. It can only occure on brand new cloth. My friend was a national class player and showed me this the other night. It was something i had never seen, heard of, or noticed before. It can happen when you play a 2 rail cross table shot with center ball as well, where the first rail imparts reverse english. Look at these diagrams to see what i mean.

Diagram A: Reverse english on the cueball, the cueball should follow path A and slow up off the rail, but it follows path B. My Diagram isn't that great but it should help you understand what a kick is.

START(
%AB5[9%BC3\5%CB7[9%DC5\4%EC2\3%FB6\3%GB8\8%HB2\2%IB7\7%JC3[6
%KB5[9%LC1\2%MC1\2%NB4\1%OB2\1%PI5V3%Ql2H0%Rm5F2%Wf6D5% XJ4U9
%Yr2M1%Zg6D2%[r7H7%\g5D1%eA4a3
)END



In the second example, same principle but the rail imparts the english.

START(
%AB5[9%BC3\5%CB7[9%DC5\4%EC2\3%FB6\3%GB8\8%HB2\2%IB7\7%JC3[6
%KB5[9%LC1\2%MC1\2%NB4\1%OB2\1%PG6X1%Ql2H0%Rm5F2%Wf6D5% XN5[3
%Ys2N2%Zg6D2%[r7H5%\g5D1%]N1[2%^G4X2%eB5a3
)END

Has anyone else ever heard of or seen this? It amazed me the first time i seen it. I'm not sure if it was an optical illusion but it actually looked like it picked up speed when it should slow down.

sjm
03-05-2005, 02:16 PM
When a table is refelted, its rails are usually replaced. New cloth and new rails create some unique results, a couple of which you've indicated.

Remember, it's not just the cloth, it's also the rails.

Muxy
03-05-2005, 03:13 PM
When you post those Wei Table thingy's, don't always assume the average newbie will knwo what the Start and End tags mean always post the link i dont even have it on bookmark.

Back to subject. I have had some wacky stuff happen to me when my home hall reclothed there tables.

fxskater
03-05-2005, 04:46 PM
The rails were not replaced on the table that i was shown the shot on. It was just brand new championship cloth. Shoulda posted the link to the WEI table, but i hate re-explaining how to use it every time i post.

Muxy
03-05-2005, 11:59 PM
Well myself dont have it book marked and havent been able to view your shots.

buddha162
03-06-2005, 02:12 AM
The rails were not replaced on the table that i was shown the shot on.

I could be wrong but maybe sjm was talking about the rail cloth being replaced as well, not the cushions themselves.

-Roger

mjantti
03-06-2005, 01:54 PM
When the rail cloth is brand new, there are some major differences at first. The "skid" is just caused because the new cloth is much more slippery than old and the cueball just slides on the moment of impact with the cushion. The same goes with reverse sidespin, the effect is severely reduced, because there isn't enough friction to change the angle of the cueball. Here's an example (A for new cloth, B for old)
START(
%AB5[9%BC3\5%CB7[9%DC5\4%EC2\3%FB6\3%GB8\8%HB2\2%IB7\7%JC3[6
%KB5[9%LC1\2%MC1\2%NB4\1%OB2\1%PG6X1%QG1H9%RD1H6%WE4D4% XC0I3
%YH3P8%ZE9C7%[D6Q6%\F2C5%]C1I8%^G4X2%eA1a7
)END

With new cloth it's very difficult to spin the cueball with slow speed and expect a major change in direction and speed after the contact on the cushion.

Another example: on a worn cloth, quite simple position play from 8 to 9, but on a brand new cloth very difficult to get enough speed from the cushion.

START(
%AB5[9%BC3\5%CB7[9%DC5\4%EC2\3%FB6\3%GB8\8%H]6H4%IC7O5%JC3[6
%KB5\5%LC1\2%MC1\2%NB8[8%OB7\3%P`0O1%R]1_1%Y^2I8%Z_5N3%][9D5
%^]1G6%eA6`6
)END

Bob Jewett
03-06-2005, 05:26 PM
Has anyone ever heard of a kick? I don't mean kicking at another ball. I mean the type of shot where the CB contacts the rail with reverse english, but reacts like it has running ienglish. ...
I have never heard of "kick" being used in this special way. Usually it's called "slide" when new cloth causes unexpected loops and angles off cushions especially with reverse english. Maybe it's a regional term.

To kick at a ball is to play the cue ball to hit a cushion before hitting the object ball (US usage).

A "kick" occurs when the cue ball and object ball sort of lock together, probably due to chalk at the contact point, and the object ball takes a bizarre angle and perhaps spin (UK usage). This is called "cling" or "skid" in the US.

daveneal
03-07-2005, 09:34 AM
I have never heard of "kick" being used in this special way. Usually it's called "slide" when new cloth causes unexpected loops and angles off cushions especially with reverse english. Maybe it's a regional term.

To kick at a ball is to play the cue ball to hit a cushion before hitting the object ball (US usage).

A "kick" occurs when the cue ball and object ball sort of lock together, probably due to chalk at the contact point, and the object ball takes a bizarre angle and perhaps spin (UK usage). This is called "cling" or "skid" in the US.


I have never heard this phenomonon being called kick. What really matters is that if you notice it happen on a table with a new cloth, you should alter your game to account for it. Its not likely that the table will perform differently in the short space of one match.

fxskater
03-07-2005, 05:35 PM
Thanks Bob, I'm familiar with the other uses, Steve Davis mentions the UK version of the kick about every second miss in matches he commentates 'Maybe that was a kick there Jim, although the ball didn't appear to jump at all...'

sjm
03-07-2005, 05:40 PM
I could be wrong but maybe sjm was talking about the rail cloth being replaced as well, not the cushions themselves.

-Roger

In fact, I was referring to both the rail cloth and the rails, but as has been noted, sometimes, only the rail cloth is replaced. This is still enough to change how the cue ball comes off the rail, as also noted by others.