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TOTTI
08-09-2008, 02:01 AM
HEY everybody


i wrote a thread before , it's about a problem in DRAW SHOT .
i couldn't do it since that time :( and i want to be sure that the problem is in THE CLOTH to change it ?????????
it's an easy shot it's not necessary to be a pro to apply it , just hit the ball low but the cue ball doesn't back very well !!!!!!!!!!

so this is a clip when i did the draw shot ::
http://www.zshare.net/download/16760503c788befc/

i hit the cue ball very HARD and it didn't come back as it should be ???

please What i've to do ? where is the problem ?

Hail Mary Shot
08-09-2008, 03:29 AM
hey dude. on the last second, it seemed that you hit the CB higher or above than where you originally intended the CB to be hit. always take note that the last action counts the most. though I wouldn't normally recommend this, but try to jack your cue a bit higher in a 20-25 degree angle and make sure to chalk your tip to avoid miscue or jumping the CB. lastly, adjust your bridge farther away from the CB.

*always remember that no matter how hard you hit the CB, if your aim is not accurate, you wont get the desired result.

smoooothstroke
08-09-2008, 03:59 AM
I have to disagree with raising the but of your cue on draw shots.It looks to me like you are hitting the ball hard and not getting much draw.A good draw stroke requires a long follow through stroke and the cue must excelerate thru the cue ball.It is possible to get a good deal of backspin without a hard stroke.Yes it does look like slow cloth but mostly that you are crushing the ball and stunning it.

Hail Mary Shot
08-09-2008, 04:50 AM
I took another look at the video clip using a video player software with slow-mo picture. you hit the CB just slight below center. that's what you did wrong. I do want to take a snapshot of that sequence inorder to show you in detail, but I need to go now. I'll try to post this tommorow night.

skor
08-09-2008, 06:07 AM
First thing I noticed is that your bridge is too short, but with the right stroke you could still get a nice draw.

You punch the ball and you do it too hard this like a stun effect to the shot, you miss your aiming point, not only that the tip goes up but it also moves to the side, you can see the CB spinning.

You also do not follow through enough and the stroke is lacking smoothness...

You jump backwards instead of staying down, let the CB come back to the tip of the cue, for now focus on hitting the right point with the right speed and the right stroke.

I suggest that you place both balls at the center of the table with a foot (about 30cm) between them. and stay down at the shot.
Keep your cue as leveled as possible.
Shoot it like it was in slow motion, see all that takes place during the shot.


http://www.sagi-k.com/img/draw.jpg

Scott Lee
08-09-2008, 06:26 AM
skor...a serious error you show, in your photo series here, is something we call "cowboy lasso". Your pictures show you pulling the cue backwards, after striking the CB. This is not necessary, and actually quite detrimental to a good draw stroke. The bridge hand moves the cue out of the way of the CB, not the grip hand.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott Lee
08-09-2008, 06:52 AM
TOTTI...Your basic problem is very likely with your grip pressure. Gripping the cue too tightly causes the tip to raise, during the execution of the stroke. It's already been pointed out that you are not striking the CB where you believe you are (even though you're "aiming" what you think is low on the CB). Grip your cue very loosely. Take your index finger and point it straight at the ground, while making sure you finish your stroke. Most of pressure in the grip comes from the thumb and index finger. Hope this helps. If not, find a qualified instructor to help you with this problem.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

HEY everybody


i wrote a thread before , it's about a problem in DRAW SHOT .
i couldn't do it since that time :( and i want to be sure that the problem is in THE CLOTH to change it ?????????
it's an easy shot it's not necessary to be a pro to apply it , just hit the ball low but the cue ball doesn't back very well !!!!!!!!!!

so this is a clip when i did the draw shot ::
http://www.zshare.net/download/16760503c788befc/

i hit the cue ball very HARD and it didn't come back as it should be ???

please What i've to do ? where is the problem ?

skor
08-09-2008, 08:19 AM
skor...a serious error you show, in your photo series here, is something we call "cowboy lasso". Your pictures show you pulling the cue backwards, after striking the CB. This is not necessary, and actually quite detrimental to a good draw stroke. The bridge hand moves the cue out of the way of the CB, not the grip hand.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hey Scott,

you are correct but just to clear it up, the pictures are screen shots from TOTTI's video. This is not me in the pictures.
If you download and watch the video that TOTTI posted then you'll see that the "cowboy lasso" is just part of the problem with TOTTI's attempt to draw the CB.

TOTTI,
I hope you are not offended here as we are merely trying to help you here ;)

Dave Nelson
08-09-2008, 08:22 AM
I hit my draw shots very low and not to hard. I don't think the cue ball will jump unless you hit the cloth first. Am I right or wrong?

Dave Nelson

skor
08-09-2008, 08:49 AM
I hit my draw shots very low and not to hard. I don't think the cue ball will jump unless you hit the cloth first. Am I right or wrong?

Dave Nelson

The cue ball jumps on most shots and that's because it is impossible to keep the cue perfectly leveled (because of the rail) on most shots and especially on draw shot.
If you mean "jump" due to a miscue then this will happen when hitting the cue ball too low.
You should find the lowest point that you could hit the CB without miscuing.
You can actually use the same stroke and get different amount of draw just by hitting a different point on the vertical axis bellow center.

rkim99
08-09-2008, 09:30 AM
As I see it;


Grip.

Probably gripping too hard. And hitting way hard. Draw is actually easier if you hit about half speed of what you're doing now. Draw is in the stroke not the speed.

When I practice a draw (my favorite shot/shape, btw) my grip is actually just my first finger and thumb. I align cue low on the CB, find aim point and HOLD this position for one second. Then I do three to four practice strokes, using a loop stroke. This allows me to relax my arm and wrist. I come back to my ready position and again hold it for one second. Now stroke the ball making sure I follow through to the cloth.

I don't necessarily recommend jacking up either, but if you slow down and still having problems I would jack up slightly, maybe two butt diameters. Once you start geting draw again, start 'unjacking.'

TOTTI
08-09-2008, 09:39 AM
HEY :)
thank you ALL i'm really appreciate ur trying to help me .............

I took another look at the video clip using a video player software with slow-mo picture. you hit the CB just slight below center. that's what you did wrong. I do want to take a snapshot of that sequence inorder to show you in detail, but I need to go now. I'll try to post this tommorow night.
thanks man i'm waiting the clip :) and please if u can give me the software ? i'm looking for a software like this ...

you are correct but just to clear it up, the pictures are screen shots from TOTTI's video. This is not me in the pictures.
If you download and watch the video that TOTTI posted then you'll see that the "cowboy lasso" is just part of the problem with TOTTI's attempt to draw the CB.
what is ( cowboy lasso ) ?


skor i'll try to do it again and i'll post another video ....

CU

Scott Lee
08-09-2008, 09:40 AM
Dave...You're correct. The CB won't 'jump' (without elevating the cuestick), unless you hit the cloth first.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I hit my draw shots very low and not to hard. I don't think the cue ball will jump unless you hit the cloth first. Am I right or wrong?

Dave Nelson

Scott Lee
08-09-2008, 09:44 AM
Sorry about that! :eek: I didn't watch the video! Silly me!:rolleyes: Nice detail, btw! That's just what we do in pool school...except with video, instead of still shots. Nothing brings home a stroke error better than seeing yourself on tv (especially in slow-motion/stop-action)...as long as you have someone qualified, who can point out what you're doing wrong...and then teach you how to correct it! :)

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hey Scott,

you are correct but just to clear it up, the pictures are screen shots from TOTTI's video. This is not me in the pictures. ;)

Scott Lee
08-09-2008, 09:49 AM
TOTTI...Cowboy lasso means you are pulling the cuestick backwards, on a draw shot, after you strike the CB. The tip should remain still, at the end of your finish/followthrough. Then the cue is picked up with the bridge hand, to get the tip out of the way of the CB, coming back at you. Our instructional video series "Play Better Pool", addresses this issue, and many others!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

what is ( cowboy lasso ) ?

billyjack
08-09-2008, 10:04 AM
Totti,
I've had a similar problem that I'm on the way to fixing. Let me share what's worked for me. 1) practice with a striped ball as the CB, placed with the stripe horizontal. I found I was not hitting the CB near as low as I thought. 2) stroke key-I repeat to myself "tip to table" for every draw shot. If my tip doesn't skid along the cloth at least 4-6" ahead of the original CB position, my stroke was wrong. Worked for me.

disclaimer: If Scott disagrees with any of this, forget I ever wrote it.

Bill

Scott Lee
08-09-2008, 10:51 AM
Bill...No particular disagreement...although your tip should finish at the same place every time, on every stroke...not just draw. Also, it might not be 4-6" for TOTTI. The finish on the cloth is based on how your arm works with your body, and how long a bridge you have. ;) The info on using the stripe is topnotch!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com


disclaimer: If Scott disagrees with any of this, forget I ever wrote it.

Bill

TOTTI
08-09-2008, 11:10 AM
:shakehead:

I tryed to do it many many many times but it doesn't work :(

The Question is :
( Is it possible to be the problem in THE CLOTH or not ? )

Scott Lee
08-09-2008, 11:34 AM
TOTTI...It is not, I repeat NOT the cloth. You've been told what the problem is, and what to do to fix your problem. If you cannot do it, then you need to seek out a qualified instructor (one who uses video).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

TOTTI
08-09-2008, 11:57 AM
Scott
i tryed to de every thing but i couldn't do it ?
so i think the problem is in the cloth ??

SEE this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX6l9-gv3k0

I did exactly like what he did with his hand BUT the cue ball roll then stop it didn't back ???
i think that means the problem is in the cloth ........

av84fun
08-09-2008, 12:04 PM
:shakehead:

I tryed to do it many many many times but it doesn't work :(

The Question is :
( Is it possible to be the problem in THE CLOTH or not ? )

Right...it is not the cloth. As another poster suggested, use a striped ball as a CB with the stripe placed horizontally.

On standard "wide stripe" balls the bottom of the stripe is the lower limit of tip contact without miscueing.

Chalk the tip heavily to insure that it will leave a mark and shoot a draw shot. Then look at the striped "cue ball" and see where there mark is.

I guarantee you that it will be above the bottom of the stripe...probably by quite a bit. That is a function of any number of stroke mechanics errors.

As has been pointed out, one such error is to grip down on the butt which is called "grabbing" or "snatching".

Try this. Shoot hard draw strokes but don't pay attention to ANYTHING other than your grip hand pressure. Don't even aim at a pocket...shoot a full table bank shot.

Forget about whether you make the shot or not. Just start out with a VERY light grip pressure...like you were holding a bird in your hand (and are not intending to kill it!) (-:

Maintain that grip pressure ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE STROKE and the follow through. You should try for ZERO change in grip pressure throughout the stroke.

Do that until you get that feeling and then set up an easy draw shot. Stroke it so you are aiming the center of the tip and the bottom of the stripe. Because the tip and ball are curved, a point above the center of the tip will contact the ball so you make contact in the "no miscue zone."

Start with soft shots. Not much more than "lag speed" will get you at least a diamond of draw if the cb/ob are a diamond apart.

Once you get the one diamond draw distance nailed, increase the speed of the stroke progressively.

Finally, try this just as an experiment. On the final stroke, DO NOT look at the OB as you normally would. Instead focus ONLY on the CB...at the spot you want to make tip contact...i.e. the bottom of the stripe.

That will increase the odds that you will actually strike the ob where you want to. In fact, you may miscue/jump the cb if you hit slightly below your target.

The point is to actually hit as low as possible to get the feel of doing so. I am convinced that there is an unconscious tendency to "shy away" from maximum low contact for fear of an embarrassing miscue/jump.

There is no way the cloth is at fault. Players with good draw strokes can pull it back on their CARPET!

Regards,
Jim

dr_dave
08-09-2008, 12:18 PM
FYI, there is lots of good draw shot advice here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/draw.html#advice

Regards,
Dave

HEY everybody


i wrote a thread before , it's about a problem in DRAW SHOT .
i couldn't do it since that time :( and i want to be sure that the problem is in THE CLOTH to change it ?????????
it's an easy shot it's not necessary to be a pro to apply it , just hit the ball low but the cue ball doesn't back very well !!!!!!!!!!

so this is a clip when i did the draw shot ::
http://www.zshare.net/download/16760503c788befc/

i hit the cue ball very HARD and it didn't come back as it should be ???

please What i've to do ? where is the problem ?

skor
08-09-2008, 12:50 PM
Scott
i tryed to de every thing but i couldn't do it ?
so i think the problem is in the cloth ??

SEE this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX6l9-gv3k0

I did exactly like what he did with his hand BUT the cue ball roll then stop it didn't back ???
i think that means the problem is in the cloth ........

Apparently you did NOT do it exactly as the video shows... otherwise you'll be able to get a good draw.

Although a good player can draw the ball with a flat 14mm tip, I find that most amateurs can draw the CB much better with a small diameter tip which is nicely rounded.
If you can get a hold of a Z shaft or a snooker cue, then practice with it for a while until you'll develop a better stroke. BUT by no means a cue should be used as a substitute for a good smooth and straight stroke!!!

shinigami
08-09-2008, 12:54 PM
Everybody's giving some good advice. Don't get discouraged TOTTI!

Most people develop their good strokes over time. One thing that definitely helped me with my stroke is practicing with heavier balls. 3-cushion balls are heavier and requires a better stroke, same with the Asian 4-ball game. Now those balls are huge!

trendkill
08-09-2008, 01:12 PM
Totti, try a couple things for me as I see this a lot with my students. First, use a closed bridge as it will allow you to control your cue and the cb much better. Second, don't mistaken power for stroke. Just because you hit the ball hard doesn't mean you're stroking it. I hope that makes sense. You would like to see the cue as level to the table as possible, elevation can only cause you headache.

Also, your bridge length from fingertips to cb, I like to see around 5 or 6 inches. It's not too short, but not too long. When you stroke through the cb, make sure you don't have a "see saw" motion in your stroke. That will cause you to come closer to center ball at the point of contact.

Your forearm should be 90 degrees AT point of contact with the cb for a more natural snap zone. Meaning, your wrist will snap at point of contact inducing maximum back spin.

Hope this helps.
Mike

trendkill
08-09-2008, 01:13 PM
And another thing, no the problem is not the felt. It does look like very slow felt...but if you can build up a good stroke on that stuff, you'll be a monster on simonis.

Bob Jewett
08-09-2008, 02:32 PM
... i hit the cue ball very HARD and it didn't come back as it should be ???

please What i've to do ? where is the problem ?
It's clear that you are trying very hard to get this right but you are making no progress on your own. Find a good player (preferably a coach or instructor) who can watch you in person and make suggestions.

But your major problem is probably that you are not hitting the cue ball low enough. Another problem may be that you are not chalking properly. Few beginners know how to chalk. If your tip is well chalked, and you hit the cue ball firmly and well below center, it will draw back. It is not the fault of the cloth.

Fatboy
08-09-2008, 03:03 PM
:shakehead:

I tryed to do it many many many times but it doesn't work :(

The Question is :
( Is it possible to be the problem in THE CLOTH or not ? )


it aint the cloth, some faster cloth's will cause the ball to roll farther making it seem like you are drawing the ball farther, but you not spinning the CB and its not drawing back, I'm far from being a great player but I can draw the ball on any cloth it diosent matter.

you also have some of the smartest people here trying to help you, take advantage of it, best of luck, it will come with practice and patience.

Neil
08-09-2008, 04:25 PM
..............

berlowmj
08-09-2008, 04:25 PM
As always, the expertise & generousity of A-Zers comes through.

smoooothstroke
08-09-2008, 06:36 PM
This is what works for me and is the advice I have given to people.Start with the cb about 15-18 inches from the object ball.With a level cue are nearly so try a smooth follow through.Do not hit the ball hard.Picture your cue following through the cb and all the way through the object ball as well!

If this works for you practice getting maximum backspin with the softest stroke possible.This should give you a feel for a pure stroke that excelerates smoothly.Once you learn to get draw from a soft shot watch out because on a hard stroke you will be shocked how much draw you can get.

pooltchr
08-09-2008, 06:46 PM
But your major problem is probably that you are not hitting the cue ball low enough. .

I think Bob had hit the nail on the head. Something many players don't consider...if you are lined up for perfect horizontal center ball, then drop your tip down about 4mm, the contact point on the cb does not change that much. This is because as you aim lower on the cue ball, it is no longer the center of the tip that will make contact, but rather the upper edge of the tip. So it's not hard to think you are aiming one tip below center and end up nearly at center ball.

Steve

dr_dave
08-09-2008, 07:05 PM
I think Bob had hit the nail on the head. Something many players don't consider...if you are lined up for perfect horizontal center ball, then drop your tip down about 4mm, the contact point on the cb does not change that much. This is because as you aim lower on the cue ball, it is no longer the center of the tip that will make contact, but rather the upper edge of the tip. So it's not hard to think you are aiming one tip below center and end up nearly at center ball.If people want to see illustrations of this and other stuff related to "tips of English" and tip contact point, I have several good diagrams in my July '06 article (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2006/july06.pdf).

Regards,
Dave

BigDogatLarge
08-09-2008, 08:37 PM
:shakehead:

I tryed to do it many many many times but it doesn't work :(

The Question is :
( Is it possible to be the problem in THE CLOTH or not ? )

Totti,

Go ahead and get new cloth and when you still aren't able to draw as well as you would like, then you will see what many learned people have been telling you about draw. I can't believe the amount of knowledge at your fingertips. Look at the posts these fine folks have done in the past and what their credentials are concerning pool. Then you will begin to realize what a vast pool (no pun intended) of knowledge you have been given. IMO

Dwight

TOTTI
08-10-2008, 02:07 AM
I DON"T KNOW HOW CAN I THANK YOU
I'll keep your advices in my mind and i'll try again and again .

the problem is that there's no instructor in my town to learn me so i've to learn myself bymyself ...............
and i'll try to find another table to apply draw show on it , if i did it perfectly i'll know that the problem is in my table's CLOTH ..,,..,,..,,..

pooltchr
08-10-2008, 04:52 AM
I DON"T KNOW HOW CAN I THANK YOU
I'll keep your advices in my mind and i'll try again and again .

the problem is that there's no instructor in my town to learn me so i've to learn myself bymyself ...............
and i'll try to find another table to apply draw show on it , if i did it perfectly i'll know that the problem is in my table's CLOTH ..,,..,,..,,..

Here's an easier way. Watch and see if someone else in the room can get draw on that table. Then you will know it's you and not the cloth.

Steve

thomba02
08-10-2008, 04:59 AM
snap your wrist as you hit the cue ball and follow through...you need more stroke than power in draw shots

trendkill
08-10-2008, 08:55 AM
I DON"T KNOW HOW CAN I THANK YOU
I'll keep your advices in my mind and i'll try again and again .

the problem is that there's no instructor in my town to learn me so i've to learn myself bymyself ...............
and i'll try to find another table to apply draw show on it , if i did it perfectly i'll know that the problem is in my table's CLOTH ..,,..,,..,,..

I'm not sure why you're so persistent on it being the cloth. I can guarantee you it's not. If you do what we all have told you to do, and do it correctly, and you still can't draw your rock...I'll personally buy you some new cloth. I would personally say you need some stroke work before you start worrying about drawing the ball though.

I've read everybody's advice...there's something to get out of all of it. Just keep in mind when you're at the table, it takes practice and dedication to get anywhere in this game.

Hail Mary Shot
08-10-2008, 09:04 AM
I DON"T KNOW HOW CAN I THANK YOU
I'll keep your advices in my mind and i'll try again and again .

the problem is that there's no instructor in my town to learn me so i've to learn myself bymyself ...............
and i'll try to find another table to apply draw show on it , if i did it perfectly i'll know that the problem is in my table's CLOTH ..,,..,,..,,..


hello again Totti. sorry for the delay reply since I had just arrived. anyway, I used a VLC video player. it is capable of capturing video sequences and decrease the play rate of the video to as much as .13 of a sec. so that would be an ample time for you to capture shots. I would no longer post the video clip since Skor beat me to it. just look at illustration 2. it shows you where you hit the CB on the final stroke (not where you intended the CB to be hit).

and again for the last time, and all of the posters comments here(including myself), it is not the fault of the cloth and don't fault it. it's your stroke where you need to improve. here is why it is not the fault of the cloth. the CB didn't have much backspin to begin with (after contact). it didn't drastically slowed down but merely slowly moved due to how and where you hit it. if you stroked and hit the CB right, you would see the CB's spin to how much. example, if you play pingpong and delivered a correct topspin into the net, the ball won't stop spinning even after the ball hit the net.

btw, you can achieve the same draw distance (as shown in you video) by only using a medium stroke. all you need is to hit the CB low enough. try putting 2 balls in the middle, 12 inches apart (adjacent to the side pockets). then try pocketing the OB using a draw. don't hit it hard, just medium. and see the results.

please inform us of your progress. btw, don't rush on learning things as it would come to you with normal and correct practice. and dont forget to chalk you cue tip constantly and correctly. :wink:

TOTTI
08-10-2008, 11:23 AM
I used a VLC video player
thanks :) i didn't know about this ....

i'll not change the cloth now and i'll try and try and try to do it .
and sure i'll tell you the progress soooooooooooooooooooon ...


THANK YOU ALL
BYE

Hail Mary Shot
08-10-2008, 11:43 AM
Totti, I just checked the video link from youtube that you posted. that was an example of the medium stroke and middle of the table draw shot that I was talking about.

check on the final stroke at 1.41 (where the tip of the cue hit the CB). the cueball was hit just below the red marker. eventhough it seemed that he was aiming at the red marker on his practice strokes at first, the final stroke was really below those previous aims. don't get deceived by those initial stroking. if i were to say, the instructor did the opposite to what you had done. from the practice strokes and aim, down to the final execution.

* last, try to loosen your grip inorder to smoothen your stroke. take notice on how the instructor stroked the CB on the final shot (smooth).

BigDogatLarge
08-10-2008, 04:51 PM
I DON"T KNOW HOW CAN I THANK YOU
I'll keep your advices in my mind and i'll try again and again .

the problem is that there's no instructor in my town to learn me so i've to learn myself bymyself ...............
and i'll try to find another table to apply draw show on it , if i did it perfectly i'll know that the problem is in my table's CLOTH ..,,..,,..,,..

Totti,

Where do you live? I am sure that someone that comes here is near you or knows a room or person that is near you.

Dwight

TOTTI
08-10-2008, 06:58 PM
Totti, I just checked the video link from youtube that you posted. that was an example of the medium stroke and middle of the table draw shot that I was talking about.

check on the final stroke at 1.41 (where the tip of the cue hit the CB). the cueball was hit just below the red marker.
NO i mean when he hit the CB by his hand and it's back perfectly . i did id by my hand but the CB roll and stop it doesn't back ?????


Totti,

Where do you live? I am sure that someone that comes here is near you or knows a room or person that is near you.
I hope so but i don't think so :)
i'm from Saudi Arabia . far away from you :)

REGARDS ... ... ...

BigDogatLarge
08-11-2008, 12:17 AM
Ok people, we have a guy in saudi arabia that needs help with his draw stroke, anyone know who is the closest one to him. Pass it along, let's help this man before he buys all the cloth in the middle east. lol

Dwight

TOTTI
08-11-2008, 10:07 AM
Ok people, we have a guy in saudi arabia that needs help with his draw stroke, anyone know who is the closest one to him. Pass it along, let's help this man before he buys all the cloth in the middle east. lol
:grin:

i asked someone yesterday about my problem , he said that the problem because the floor of my table made of WOOD not MARBLE ???

what do you think ?

and i wanna ask u about tables like Brunswick and Diamond , they made of wood or marble ?

thomba02
08-11-2008, 10:08 AM
italian slate...a type of manufactured rock i think.

i've played on wooden tables before, i can draw fine...just aim lower and snap your wrist...

Scott Lee
08-11-2008, 10:14 AM
TOTTI...Whoever said that is crazy. The bed of the table (or the cloth) has no bearing on whether or not you can draw the CB. It is ALL about the quality of the stroke! All quality pool tables have a slate bed.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

:grin:

i asked someone yesterday about my problem , he said that the problem because the floor of my table made of WOOD not MARBLE ???

what do you think ?

and i wanna ask u about tables like Brunswick and Diamond , they made of wood or marble ?

Scott Lee
08-11-2008, 10:19 AM
thomba02...slate is natural rock, and comes from the Earth (from several places, including Italy, Brazil & China). It is mined in a quarry, and then cut and machined, for use as pool table slates.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

italian slate...a type of manufactured rock i think.

i've played on wooden tables before, i can draw fine...just aim lower and snap your wrist...

Hail Mary Shot
08-11-2008, 10:31 AM
:grin:

i asked someone yesterday about my problem , he said that the problem because the floor of my table made of WOOD not MARBLE ???

what do you think ?

and i wanna ask u about tables like Brunswick and Diamond , they made of wood or marble ?


we already saw the video. we pointed out what you did wrong (complete with shot by shot illustration). it is unanimous that you hit the CB wrong. no matter what your table has for a flooring, be it marble, slate, wood, cement, etc... if your fundamentals are lacking, you won't be able to draw just the same. players do mistake of stunning the CB or a draw error on a marble or slate floored table, so what made you think that it is still the table's fault (having wood flooring) that you can't draw?

anyway, no offense but since you always brought this table and cloth thing up everytime, and it seems that you want to conclude or force your own suspicions that it's the table's fault, inspite of what people here told you that it's not. then don't follow our advice, you have your own. buy the table (with a flooring that you think would help you draw a lot) and a new cloth (with what you think that will help you draw a lot), does that solve your problem?


***
also get the diamond table with matching centennial balls and cuetec cues by Allison Fisher. I heard with those equiptment, you would be able to draw and be able to beat your dad, 5-1. ---Travis Trotter :thumbup:

PKM
08-11-2008, 11:00 AM
But assuming you have good fundamentals, surely the condition of the cloth affects the amount of draw for a given stroke?

BRKNRUN
08-11-2008, 11:25 AM
Hey...at least he did not blame the cue....:rolleyes:

I am not 100% sure but it looks like there may have been a touch of english thrown in with that draw shot...(based on the way the 10-ball rotates)

Hail Mary Shot
08-11-2008, 11:36 AM
But assuming you have good fundamentals, surely the condition of the cloth affects the amount of draw for a given stroke?


that's why you need to adjust to how much you need stroke the CB (assuming you have the fundamentals). the problem of the TS is not on how much he has to put on the stroke, but rather how to and where to stroke the CB (fundamental flaw). the CB's (10ball) spin tells a lot from what he did.

Hail Mary Shot
08-11-2008, 11:42 AM
Hey...at least he did not blame the cue....:rolleyes:

I am not 100% sure but it looks like there may have been a touch of english thrown in with that draw shot...(based on the way the 10-ball rotates)


I believe the cue alibi would had been more acceptable. don't you believe the z-shaft can help you draw the CB much easier? :D

seriously speaking, you can't perform a better draw in a z-shaft if you kept on hitting the CB dead center ! :D

pooltchr
08-11-2008, 03:56 PM
I think we can all agree, at least in this case, it ain't the arrow...it ain't even the hunting ground.....it's the Indian!!!

Steve

Hail Mary Shot
08-11-2008, 11:47 PM
I think we can all agree, at least in this case, it ain't the arrow...it ain't even the hunting ground.....it's the Indian!!!

Steve

I believe Totti wanted to perform a full table draw. well, he won't be able to perform that unless he hit the CB at the right spot regardless of what cloth or table flooring he has. if a 9mm tip still doesn't solve his problem, he really needs to work on his aim.

thomba02
08-12-2008, 03:42 AM
thomba02...slate is natural rock, and comes from the Earth (from several places, including Italy, Brazil & China). It is mined in a quarry, and then cut and machined, for use as pool table slates.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

same thing :smile:

TOTTI
09-22-2008, 08:43 PM
Hi again :rolleyes:



I discovered why i can't draw well ..........
the problem is in my cue :embarrassed2:
I bought new cue two weeks ago and i can draw maybe half table :cool:
but i can't draw farther !!!!!!!!

i played on marble table it's really wonderful , there's huge difference between it and my table .................





So i'll not change my table's cloth :D

Hail Mary Shot
09-23-2008, 12:41 AM
Hi again :rolleyes:



I discovered why i can't draw well ..........
the problem is in my cue :embarrassed2:
I bought new cue two weeks ago and i can draw maybe half table :cool:
but i can't draw farther !!!!!!!!

i played on marble table it's really wonderful , there's huge difference between it and my table .................





So i'll not change my table's cloth :D


congratulations! you have finally figured out why you can't draw that well. but honestly speaking, basing from the video of yourself that you showed us, you really did hit and stroked the CB incorrectly that's why you weren't able to attain a better result.

but if you still insist that it's the equiptment's fault that you can't draw any better, well goodluck to you and avoid playing on equiptments that you think would affect your drawing technique, which is very difficult. :thumbup:

words of wisdom: pool equiptments are just tools, it is up to the user's ability to maximize the pool equipments potential. question is "do you really believe that your ability was able to fully utilize your cue and table's potential?

softshot
09-23-2008, 01:23 AM
[SIZE="5"]Hi again :rolleyes:



I discovered why i can't draw well ..........
the problem is in my cue :embarrassed2:
I bought new cue two weeks ago and i can draw maybe half table :cool:
but i can't draw farther !!!!!!!!

i played on marble table it's really wonderful , there's huge difference between it and my table .................



some of the best in the world told you EXACTLY why you didn't get the results you expected... and you are still blaming the CLOTH????

you get better draw on new cloth... you get less draw with a heavy cueball...

but if you hit the cue ball correctly you WILL get draw..

learn how to stroke.... or blame the cloth for losing for the rest of your life

Hail Mary Shot
09-23-2008, 10:16 AM
some of the best in the world told you EXACTLY why you didn't get the results you expected... and you are still blaming the CLOTH????

you get better draw on new cloth... you get less draw with a heavy cueball...

but if you hit the cue ball correctly you WILL get draw..

learn how to stroke.... or blame the cloth for losing for the rest of your life

with that kind of an excuse, it would take a long time for him to learn how to play pool.

"you adjust to the equiptment, it's not the equiptment that will adjust for you." but it's not just the equiptment, you must also learn how to shoot properly.

man, I don't understand why some people insist that they could draw the CB farther even if they hit it just a few mm below off center. some people are trying too hard to defy physics. oh well, I guess it's all Efren's fault.

philw
09-23-2008, 10:03 PM
This is starting to sound like a Travis Trotter thread by the minute!

Hail Mary Shot
09-23-2008, 11:32 PM
This is starting to sound like a Travis Trotter thread by the minute!


are you saying that the new cue he has is a Cuetec by Allison? :grin:

softshot
09-24-2008, 12:25 AM
are you saying that the new cue he has is a Cuetec by Allison? :grin:




the cue has nothing to do with it.......... he is using that ... " silver cup"
chalk..

HE doesn't realize that master chalk is the key to good draw..........


it's all about the chalk..

cigjonser
09-24-2008, 04:36 AM
The main problem, as mentioned many times before, is that you are not delivering the tip of the cue low enough on the cueball on the final stroke.

If you don't want to fix your stroke, or just don't know how right now, here's a shortcut that might help:

When you take your practice strokes, aim the tip right where the cueball touches the felt, and on your final stroke, try to hit that same point.

Normally, the cueball would go flying off the table if you actually contacted the cueball there, but since during your final stroke the tip is moving upwards, starting out by aiming TOO low should compensate for it and you should get better draw.

This is a band-aid fix though, and you should work on getting your stroke to deliver the cue to the point where you are aiming either by practicing the methods described by the other posters who are giving excellent advice, or taking a lesson from a good instructor, but it will at least show you what is possible when the tip is delivered to the correct spot on the cueball.

Best of luck.

bullshooter69
09-24-2008, 05:15 AM
I was working on draw shots last nite. I didn"t read every post but i have not seen anyone mention about following through on the cue ball. Make sure you stroke through the ball. If you are only hitting the cue ball low you still may not be able to draw the cue ball.

TOTTI
09-25-2008, 05:45 PM
thanks guys for passing by .................

I was used very bad cue and chalk i don't know its brand .... BUT in the beginning i didn't expect the problem is in my cue I just think about the cloth :D

anyway I bought good cue with good tip and master chalk and i can draw well but if the OB is far away from CB i can't draw well maybe i need some practice ..................

Hail Mary Shot
09-25-2008, 09:57 PM
thanks guys for passing by .................

I was used very bad cue and chalk i don't know its brand .... BUT in the beginning i didn't expect the problem is in my cue I just think about the cloth :D

anyway I bought good cue with good tip and master chalk and i can draw well but if the OB is far away from CB i can't draw well maybe i need some practice ..................


you'd better be practicing correctly. otherwise Travis Trotter would definitely kick your butt, 5-0 . :thumbup: :thumbup:

mullyman
09-25-2008, 10:08 PM
If you're still having problems try this.

Place the balls about 30cm apart. When you stroke through the shot imagine that you are stroking to hit the object ball at it's low point. Stroke your cue striaight through the cueball trying to hit that low point on the object ball with your tip. Of course you're not going to stroke that far through the ball, it's an imaginary point to aim at. Keep it a medium speed and try to keep your stroke smooth and follow through.
MULLY

smoooothstroke
09-25-2008, 10:20 PM
I DON"T KNOW HOW CAN I THANK YOU
I'll keep your advices in my mind and i'll try again and again .

the problem is that there's no instructor in my town to learn me so i've to learn myself bymyself ...............
and i'll try to find another table to apply draw show on it , if i did it perfectly i'll know that the problem is in my table's CLOTH ..,,..,,..,,..

If there are no instructors near you are there any pool players?Are there any pool players who can draw the cue ball back consistently?

pooltchr
09-26-2008, 03:28 AM
thanks guys for passing by .................

I was used very bad cue and chalk i don't know its brand .... BUT in the beginning i didn't expect the problem is in my cue I just think about the cloth :D

anyway I bought good cue with good tip and master chalk and i can draw well but if the OB is far away from CB i can't draw well maybe i need some practice ..................

I don't know if this is going to sink in or not, but I will give it a shot anyway. THERE IS NO MAGIC WAND IN POOL! If you insist on laying the cause of your problem on the equipment you use, you will NEVER be able to fix the problem. Everything that happens on the table is a direct result of something YOU do. Until you understand and accept the fact, you are going to struggle with any improvement.

If you aren't the cause of a problem, there is no way you can fix it. If you understand that you and you alone are responsible for everything that happens with your shot, you can learn to correct the problems. It's like in AA...the first step is to admit you have a problem.

Steve

smoooothstroke
09-26-2008, 02:15 PM
bump......