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View Full Version : APA v. BCA ratings


J. Learned Hand
08-09-2008, 06:26 AM
I know this has probably been beat to death in other posts in the past but I have some questions about the difference between the two league rating systems. I played BCA league in the distant past and had limited success. In a 15 week season, I had 24 break and runs (out of 37 opportunities),13 5-0's and played to a 49 average. I am not and was not a very good player, so I have always wondered what would these stats equate to in the APA. I always see these "matchups" of the AZ 8's and read about 9's 10's and even 11's. Are these people like pros or are they just short of pro with their stats being far superior to average league players like I was. Just curious.

nancewayne
08-09-2008, 07:55 AM
With your BCA avg.of 4.9 out of 5.0.....you are certainly be in the Semi-Pro class! The highest APA avg. for 8-ball is a 7 handicap and for 9-ball a 9 handicap. You would be in that class of highest handicap for both!

frankncali
08-09-2008, 08:54 AM
I know this has probably been beat to death in other posts in the past but I have some questions about the difference between the two league rating systems. I played BCA league in the distant past and had limited success. In a 15 week season, I had 24 break and runs (out of 37 opportunities),13 5-0's and played to a 49 average. I am not and was not a very good player, so I have always wondered what would these stats equate to in the APA. I always see these "matchups" of the AZ 8's and read about 9's 10's and even 11's. Are these people like pros or are they just short of pro with their stats being far superior to average league players like I was. Just curious.


So your telling me that you Broke and ran 24 out of 37 racks??? AND had
limited success????

Yet you claim not to be a good player.
I wouldnt worry about the APA.

FLICKit
08-09-2008, 03:09 PM
I know this has probably been beat to death in other posts in the past but I have some questions about the difference between the two league rating systems. I played BCA league in the distant past and had limited success. In a 15 week season, I had 24 break and runs (out of 37 opportunities),13 5-0's and played to a 49 average. I am not and was not a very good player, so I have always wondered what would these stats equate to in the APA. I always see these "matchups" of the AZ 8's and read about 9's 10's and even 11's. Are these people like pros or are they just short of pro with their stats being far superior to average league players like I was. Just curious.
There is a broad range regarding an APA 7.
To relate it to the AZ rating system, an APA 7 can be anywhere from an AZ Rating 7 and up (7,8,9,10,10-1,10-2). In some rare instances even an AZ 6 could be an APA 7.
Part of that problem is due to the fact that not many AZ 8+ players play in the APA (for various reasons, many obvious). If more AZ 8+ players played, then they'd beat up on some of the APA 7's and 6's and the rest, which would give them losses and thus lower their APA rating.
APA rating has some variability depending on area and strength of competition.

Just an opinion from my level of experience.

NINEBALLART
08-09-2008, 03:25 PM
I have played BCA for ther last 8 years and we score different....We are rated from a 10 being the highest to whatever else is below that...
If you win your game you get a 10 for your score. Your opponet gets however many balls they pocketed....We play 4 games with 4 different players...At the end of the night we total our scores up.... If I got a total of 36 for the night I would be a 9..... If I got a 28 I would be a 7... and so on....A running total is kept thru the season...I finished at 8.4 at the end of 16 weeks....
Playing 4 games a night we rack twice and break twice...So after 16 weeks we had 32 chances to break and run....We had two Master rated players who play Masters in Vegas and they had the highest break and runs. One had 8 the other had 6....
How did you get 24 run outs out of 37 breaks???? How does your system work ????
Just curious.....

hang-the-9
08-09-2008, 04:27 PM
I know this has probably been beat to death in other posts in the past but I have some questions about the difference between the two league rating systems. I played BCA league in the distant past and had limited success. In a 15 week season, I had 24 break and runs (out of 37 opportunities),13 5-0's and played to a 49 average. I am not and was not a very good player, so I have always wondered what would these stats equate to in the APA. I always see these "matchups" of the AZ 8's and read about 9's 10's and even 11's. Are these people like pros or are they just short of pro with their stats being far superior to average league players like I was. Just curious.

24 BNR out of 37 is pro level. You should hit the road.

J. Learned Hand
08-09-2008, 07:43 PM
In response to the break and run questions, I can only say that its eight ball on Gandy 4 by 8 tables. Anyone who has played that game on such equipment knows its pretty easy. Furthermore, on a given night, our team members would get either two breaks or three depending on how our captain set up our line up. I usually always got one, sometimes two and twice I got three. Most of the other guys on my team did too. (Again, easy tables)

I played on various teams in Vegas. We made it down to the final eight three or four times in the five years I played. Hell, Jeremy Jones played on our team one year.

As for the road...not my cup of tea. I've played some big tourney's (Texas Open; etc) and some big names (Santos Sambajon with the 8 and the breaks - won; Atlanta Danny with the 6 out - throttled him; Javier Franco with the 7 - won; the late Johnny Morrow with the last three - won, etc.). I chose schooling to the tune of a BBA and a JD. I don't know if I am the better for it, but it feels nice sometimes.

I still play occasionally as I am friends with the likes of Corey, Gabe and Jeremy. They torture me just like they do most others, but sometimes I win sets (last time I beat Jeremy 9-6 playing 10 ball).

I'm just another never was with pool in my blood and I hope this clears things up. Remember, 8 ball on a Gandy 4 by 8 is stealin'

mantis99
08-09-2008, 08:26 PM
24/37 break and runs is probably above pro level, even on easy tables. If that was an average player, what would a good player do. I can't imagine someone running out more than 30/37 8 ball on the easiest table, even if it had 6" pockets. 24/37 is a 65% break and run ratio. I don't think many pros even do that!

senor
08-11-2008, 04:05 AM
24 BNR out of 37 is pro level. You should hit the road.

Don't let the Judge fool ya'! The guy can barely hold a cue! The only reason that he broke and ran so many racks is because he had the comforting knowledge that his opponents in league couldn't run three balls. If they had any life to them whatsoever, he might not of played league. The Judge is a NIT who will putt from 20 feet off the green to a back pin!

Disclaimer: With all due respect as I may need your legal services someday.

Snapshot9
08-11-2008, 04:20 AM
His average was a 49 out of a possible 75. BCA does NOT score 10 for a win, the points add up to 15 for a game. (i.e., 9-6, 11-4, 13-2). Your APA equivalent average would be 49/75 * 8 or 6.5, rounded to 7. (In contrast, the VNEA scores 10 for a win, with 4 games being played in a night).

Can you not understand that BCA has 75 possible handicaps, and APA has 7, which means when converting 11 BCA handicaps fit into 1 handicap level in the APA, which is one reason why so much sandbagging goes on in the APA.
The more discrete the handicapping is, the less sandbagging goes on.

Considering 40 is the cutoff to qualify for the advanced league in the BCA, a 49 average is pretty good. 54 average is about the highest I have seen in a BCA advanced league over a session. I think you are being overly modest about your ability.

J. Learned Hand
08-11-2008, 07:40 AM
Don't let the Judge fool ya'! The guy can barely hold a cue! The only reason that he broke and ran so many racks is because he had the comforting knowledge that his opponents in league couldn't run three balls. If they had any life to them whatsoever, he might not of played league. The Judge is a NIT who will putt from 20 feet off the green to a back pin!

Disclaimer: With all due respect as I may need your legal services someday.

Nittiness is next to godliness, sir. Old age begets conservative behavior. The older I get the farther from the green I will putt and the more safties I will play in a given game of pool. In a couple of years, I can see myself safety breaking in nine ball and putting from the tee!!!!

FLICKit
08-11-2008, 09:45 AM
His average was a 49 out of a possible 75. BCA does NOT score 10 for a win, the points add up to 15 for a game. (i.e., 9-6, 11-4, 13-2). Your APA equivalent average would be 49/75 * 8 or 6.5, rounded to 7. (In contrast, the VNEA scores 10 for a win, with 4 games being played in a night).
Interesting calculatting system... But you are saying that a 45 (45/75 * 8 = 4.8) would equal a 5.
Now that I look at it, your calculation is flawed. 49/75=.653 and .653 * 8 = 5.226 not 6.5.

Can you not understand that BCA has 75 possible handicaps,
Actually, that's a very badly worded statement. To say BCA has 75 handicaps is not accurate at all. At best you can say it has 75 ranges (using whole numbers). Next, many of those numbers are virtually unattainable. For example, how many people have you seen get a 75 over the course of the season. Heck even a 70. So 30-35 is near average with some people going 10 or 15 points more than that, and some going about 10 lower than that. So 95% of the people fit into half the range that you mentioned. So does that make it half as accurate?

Next, what is the accuracy level. I've seen people manipulate the heck out of the BCA handicap system. Note: you can try to dis-spell that statement by making some bogus comparisons (or sometimes legitimate) to other systems, but up til now I've just referred to BCA. In addition, those 75 numeric range values will fluctuate quite noticeably from season to season, and especially depending on which division you're in. So its accuracy is quite subjective.

The more discrete the handicapping is, the less sandbagging goes on.That statement has some validity and yet at the same time is bogus. It would be a very debatable statement.
In theory it sounds good. In actuality, methods to minimize sandbagging would need to go much beyond that.
For example, if I say I have a handicap that uses a 100 point range, would that make it automatically better? The correct answer is not necessarily.

Considering 40 is the cutoff to qualify for the advanced league in the BCA, a 49 average is pretty good. 54 average is about the highest I have seen in a BCA advanced league over a session. I think you are being overly modest about your ability.
Hey! That validates some of my statements... ;) I actually agree with most of what you stated here.

Note: Not saying that it's bad. Just pointing out some flawed logic.
You've come on here before making bogus (pro BCA only) statements before.

I think it's great that you are so passionate about the BCA... Passion is great. Just don't dishonor it.