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J. Learned Hand
08-09-2008, 06:51 AM
What do you think of the gaffy format at the Million Dollar Shootout? Yesterday on TAR, several players were pretty upset about it.

Roy Steffensen
08-09-2008, 07:55 AM
Why upset? Please explain

allen_jr
08-09-2008, 09:14 AM
OK, you got my attention - what are the complaints?

We have some of the best players in the world.

They are playing 6 rounds of 25 games each, over a 3 day period. The players are guaranteed to play 150 games each before they can be eliminated.

They are alternating break so that they each have the same opportunity to score.

The equipment is the best in the world, Diamond Professional Tables with Simonis Cloth.

could you please explain what the complaints are? From what I have heard, they love this format. They get to play, they cant get beat by a lucky roll or two. I want this event to be the best it can be, and we will address any issues that we can, so please elaborate....

You should change the title of this thread to get more input from more people, I would like to hear their ideas...

Cameron Smith
08-09-2008, 09:30 AM
OK, you got my attention - what are the complaints?

We have some of the best players in the world.

They are playing 6 rounds of 25 games each, over a 3 day period. The players are guaranteed to play 150 games each before they can be eliminated.

They are alternating break so that they each have the same opportunity to score.

The equipment is the best in the world, Diamond Professional Tables with Simonis Cloth.

could you please explain what the complaints are? From what I have heard, they love this format. They get to play, they cant get beat by a lucky roll or two. I want this event to be the best it can be, and we will address any issues that we can, so please elaborate....

You should change the title of this thread to get more input from more people, I would like to hear their ideas...

The only issue I had with the format was that a players performance was judged against the whole field rather than his group when deciding who qualified for the next round. This issue doesn't come in to play this year due to lower participation, but it will in subsequent years.

Since all groups won't be equal in difficulty, I'm sure some players will be eliminated because they were in a particulary tough group.

Also I hate alternating breaks, it soooooooooo boring to watch.

Scott Lee
08-09-2008, 09:56 AM
allen_jr...Unfortunately, you can't change the thread title, once you put it in, without starting another different thread. On the other hand, IMO, the format you've selected seems very fair to all involved. They'll ALL definitely get to play a lot! I've always been a believer in round-robin play, to show who's the best player overall. People say you can't do it with large groups, but I've directed RR tournaments with as many as 25 players, and completed it entirely in ONE day (of course, they were short races).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

You should change the title of this thread to get more input from more people, I would like to hear their ideas...

allen_jr
08-09-2008, 11:00 AM
The only issue I had with the format was that a players performance was judged against the whole field rather than his group when deciding who qualified for the next round. This issue doesn't come in to play this year due to lower participation, but it will in subsequent years.

Since all groups won't be equal in difficulty, I'm sure some players will be eliminated because they were in a particulary tough group.

Also I hate alternating breaks, it soooooooooo boring to watch.


Yes, I understand your point... however, in a large field event, where many of the players have won their way via satellite (hopefully-in the future) then by comparing wins after 75 games of play, against the whole field, it will work to some players advantage, and against others. this will be luck of the draw. Suppose 100 'B' players have won their way into this event. Also, suppose 100 top pros have bought into this event. It is possible that the draw could end up placing 4 amateurs together in a group. The draw could also put 4 world champions in a group. The draw could also put 1 world champion and 3 amateurs in a group. That would be the luck element in this event, at a large field level. Part of the allure of poker is that anyone can win. Allowing amateurs the chance to advance to round 2 or 3 withut ever playing a top pro, or having to compare their scores to a top pro, will bring in a small "luck" factor. Of course, at some point, the amateurs will have to contend with the pros, and eventually the top pros that are remaining will secure the top paid spots. However, all players have a chance to advance, so there is some enouragement for amateur players to try to win satellites to get into this event. And by providing encourgement for amateurs to get in this event, we provide encouragement for lots of players who have "paid" $5000 to get in this event. This provides a large prizepool and a pool of lower-skilled players (no offense!) that will attract the top level pros to this event, and motivate them to post $5000. However, there will still be a small luck factor involved in early rounds that the pros will have to overcome.... This may not be a perfect system, but we think it could be fun and challenging for players at all skill levels to get involved... Overall, the top pros will still win this event.

As for alternating break, it may not be as exciting to watch, but it is more fair and challenging for top players. Each player has equal opportunities at winning. What other sport can you be the best at and get beat without ever even having a chance to play? In Tennis, you get your chance to serve, ditto volleyball, in baseball - you are guaranteed a chance to bat....
i could go on, but I'm sure you get my point. I think different events should feature different styles of play...

I have another tournament format idea that will be exciting and adds the element of winner breaks... it actually incorporates that as part of the game... One day soon we will get this event organized and run it, I think anyone who likes winner break formats will love it.. just dont want to divulge it yet :)

jasonlaus
08-09-2008, 11:08 AM
Allen keep up the good work. Thanks. Remember you can't please everyone & I'm sure you will keep improving the event by listening to the ideas of others. Most would not even respond to other ideas, glad to see someone with an open mind doing something for pool.

grindz
08-09-2008, 12:19 PM
I'm just wondering is the system set up to avoid a few players being able to get an incredible jump on the field by playing the weakest player, while others only match up with the toughest? Or is that just an inherent part of round robin events?

I am looking forward to watching next year already!

td

pbat2751
08-09-2008, 12:33 PM
Yes, I understand your point... <snipped for space>
I have another tournament format idea that will be exciting and adds the element of winner breaks... it actually incorporates that as part of the game... One day soon we will get this event organized and run it, I think anyone who likes winner break formats will love it.. just dont want to divulge it yet :)

Allen Jr


Let the haters hate and the players play:thumbup:

Its nice to see a worldclass event at all and the 1st year is always the toughest. I couldn't see it this year but I should be down there next year.


Thanks again to you and your old man for putting on these great events at VF

PBat2751 <-- Buy you a beer in March

P.S. Kudos for having the TAR guys @ the event! Just let them sell swag lol

allen_jr
08-09-2008, 01:48 PM
I'm just wondering is the system set up to avoid a few players being able to get an incredible jump on the field by playing the weakest player, while others only match up with the toughest? Or is that just an inherent part of round robin events?

This event is not a standard round robin... here's how it works:

Initially, there was a random draw for the first Session

After the first session, players were matched up according to their scores for the 2nd session. The top 2 scoring players were paired up, the next 2 were paired up, and so on.

After each session, players are paired together in this manner. They cannot play the same player twice, so if there is a conflict, they move down the list to the next player that they have not played yet.

We did this in order to ensure/try to ensure that players are fairly matched. Two players that did not score very well in the 1st Session get the opportunity to play each other and maybe gain some wins to move up. The top players play and try to overcome each other... We feel this keeps it more competitive. Players have an equal opportunity to earn "wins" and thus move up the leaderboard. The format is based on wins (Break & runs are used for tie breakers), and the draw process tries to ensure that players are always evenly matched up....

hope this helps

smashmouth
08-09-2008, 02:08 PM
Why upset? Please explain

exactly, what were the players complaining about? only think I can think of is the music, oh and Archer doesn't count cause he complains bout everything

buffalo bill
08-09-2008, 03:01 PM
don't attempt to drive around here without a gps and lots of gas,you may miss your match

1on1pooltournys
08-09-2008, 03:23 PM
Is the race to 13 winner break or alternate break? Also, it is single elimination correct? I don't think that will determine the best player. Just curious, why have them play such a fair way for two days and then have to play a race to 13 single elimination after working so hard? Just curious?

jimmyg
08-09-2008, 03:24 PM
Nothing to get too excited about, just another "hit and run".:rolleyes: ;)

Jim

Gunn_Slinger
08-09-2008, 03:27 PM
I still don't understand, why is the name of the thread John Schmidt?
Maybe I just got too much sun today. LOL
mrs.g

Bob Jewett
08-09-2008, 04:28 PM
don't attempt to drive around here without a gps and lots of gas,you may miss your match
Once you realize that the area around Valley Forge has four different road systems that don't connect to each other, it's not bad. Remember to stay at a hotel that is on the same set of roads as the convention center. Evidently this is a relictual transportation design strategy designed to confuse the Red Coats.

Cameron Smith
08-09-2008, 04:56 PM
Allen Jr


Let the haters hate and the players play:thumbup:



He asked for input so I provided some. I like the round robin format, and am satisfied with his response.

kaznj
08-09-2008, 05:05 PM
I was able to attend all day Friday. I enjoyed watching the pros and APA players. The 25 game format allowed me to see great players for longer periods. I wish I could have stayed over for Saturday. Nice job.

J. Learned Hand
08-09-2008, 07:15 PM
Okay. Let me start by saying I apologize for naming the thread John Schmidt. I posted this in the morning because I saw he was online and wanted to here what he thought about the tourney as I saw on TAR that he was commentating one night but opted out of playing (for what I am sure was a good reason). Before I got the thread started he went offline. Thus, he didn't respond because I just missed him.

Now, regarding my comment about the format. As TAR went off last night one of the players was in the booth and the TAR guys were chatting amongst themselves and with the player. It seemed that nobody knew who would play who. The player didn't seem disgruntled really, it just seemed that maybe he was a little jarred by the way things were. The guys commented that they were watching a players meeting after the round and they saw various hand jestures (not vulgar, mind you) and verbal exchanges from the group. All in all I think it was unfamiliarity, not dislike. I hoped John Schmidt would comment, that's why I asked him.

In the end, I kinda like the format because the cream always rises if you know what I mean. The only thing I can see that looks awkward is the "who will play who." I understand, as I have read here, that it is not a "true" round robin. With the limited field maybe this is what the players thought they should play, I don't know.

To Allen Jr., I'm sorry for any misconceptions and I appreciate the tourney including all that you and your father are doing. Furthermore, I am sure the players will too as the event grows into what we all hope it soon will be (i.e. the highest paying tourney in the world).

allen_jr
08-09-2008, 07:56 PM
leaderboard and Session scores are available at:
www.milliondollar9ball.com (http://www.milliondollar9ball.com)

and great coverage and more at:
www.theactionreport.com (http://www.theactionreport.com)

thanks everyone, talk to you tomorrow!