PDA

View Full Version : I'm very disappointed with Triangle Billiards, Orange CA.


realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 11:45 AM
Facts:

Customer (A) Chris bought a used Brunswick Gold Crown 3 from them in March 2000 for around $3,500.00.

They shipped the table from California to the Ft. Worth, TX area to where Chris lived.

During shipment, the original slates to the table were broken. Not a problem, insurance paid for replacement slates.

Table is set up by a mechanic in Texas. The mechanic must have thought he had no obligation to inform Chris that the slates were not only NOT Brunswick slates (Chinese Slates) in the first place, but also forgot to mention that the slates were not even MATCHING slates! Upon further inspection of the slates, the mechanic would have noticed the severe grind marks in the finish of the slates, making it impossible to level completely.

In this picture, you can see that the matching slate line curve does line up at the head and center slate seam, but at the center and foot slate seam, it does not.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 11:46 AM
This is what it looks like at the center slate to foot slate seam.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 11:51 AM
As you can see in this picture of one of the corner pockets, look at how rounded the corners of the slate is at the edges of the pocket cut. Brunswick slates do not have rounded corners like this. Further more, Brunswick labels their slates on the under side as Genuine Brunswick Slate with stickers. These slates had no labels.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 11:54 AM
After sliding my level over the surface of the slates to expose the grind marks, this is what it looked like. The ridges in the slates are indicated by the dark curved lines on the slate.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 11:57 AM
To show you how badly ground slates can effect the roll of a ball, I place 3 levels in a row staggering them side by side going over a grind spot on the slate. In the first 2 levels, you can see the slates are very close to dead level, take a look at the 3rd level.

mullyman
08-09-2008, 11:59 AM
I can understand why you're upset, but I'm not getting the connection to the pool hall in California other than they sold the table. Did they also supply the replacement slates?
MULLY

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 12:06 PM
Chris later hired a mechanic to recover his GC3, and tighten the pockets. This next mechanic failed to inform Chris that his slates were mis-matched as well, but didn't fail to take his money for the work he performed. Take a look at the sub-rail extentions and pocket angel cuts in the following pictures.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 12:08 PM
The angles I'm showing you with my gage are the correct Brunswick angles, note how the pocket angles ended up.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 12:09 PM
Last pocket angle picture.

Cuebuddy
08-09-2008, 12:42 PM
What a mess. Will you try to get the slates chaged out or can the ones that were sent be fixed? Jim.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 12:48 PM
Eight years after buying the GC3, Chris decides to buy a Diamond 9ft ProAm, the one I showed pictures of here on AZ, only the second 9ft ProAm with a 3 piece slate.

He sells the GC3 to a guy by the name of Scott, who lives in McKenney, TX. When I took apart the GC3 to move it, the first thing I noticed was that the slates didn't match, I asked Chris if he was aware of that, he said no, then told me the story of how he ended up with replacement slates from Triangle Billiards to replace the set that was broken during shipment.

Finished setting up Chris's Diamond, left there headed to Scott's home to deliver and set up the GC3, all the while thinking about how the mis-matched slates bothered me, and that I was going to have to set this table up.

Got to Scott's house, packed everything in, got ready to set up the GC.

Was bothered so much by the rail work that was done, took it upon myself to fix the rails without any intention of charging Scott for my time, he and his wife Nancy offered me a place to sleep, shower, and feed me...LOL So, I rebuilt the rails on the GC3 to my way of doing the work, as you can see in the following pictures. I even went so far as to resurface the cushion bevel of the sub-rails.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 12:50 PM
New sub-rail extentions and pocket angles correctly done to make the corner pockets 4 1/2" and side pockets 5"

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 12:51 PM
Recovered the rails with 860 Tour Blue.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 12:59 PM
Here's what the pockets look like finished and assembled.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 01:00 PM
This is what all the corner pockets look like.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 01:04 PM
Heres the finished table.

cbi1000
08-09-2008, 01:12 PM
I Am So Glad You Are Setting Up My Table.

Excellent Work!!

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 01:13 PM
Chris was smart enough to have kept the original invoice for the sale of the GC3, and gave it to Scott.

I took the invoice and called Joseph with Triangle Billiards in Orange, CA where the sale was made, informed him of what had happened, sent him pictures of what I had found out about the slates, and asked him if Triangle Billiards would make it right.

He said the table was a used table, and that they had no responsibility for the slate being mis-matched or ground bad.

I informed him that YES, they did. The insurance company had PAID them for the broken slates, and that they had replaced the broken slates with some BS slates that were now on my customers pool table, and that they were NOT the right slates, and that TRIANGLE BILLIARDS had made the choice to pull some bs like that, and that I'd like to correct the problem.

Joseph explained that it had been 8 years since the sale of the table, and that they had NO responsibility for the mis-matched slates....AND HUNG UP ON ME!

All I can say, is I wonder if Sean Cummins, PRESIDENT of BRUNSWICK is aware of one of their BRUNSWICK AUTHERIZED DEALERS pulling some BS like this.

AND, if this had been a DIAMOND table, this would have never gone this far!!!!!!!

Glen

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 01:20 PM
I can understand why you're upset, but I'm not getting the connection to the pool hall in California other than they sold the table. Did they also supply the replacement slates?
MULLY
Triangle Billiards Store, sold the table used in the first place. The slates got broke during shipment. Broken slates were paid for by the trucking insurance company, the replacement slates were sent to replace the broken slates, only the replacement slates are not Brunswick slates, the don't match each other, and are ground so bad, they have no business being on ANY pool table.

Glen

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 01:22 PM
What a mess. Will you try to get the slates chaged out or can the ones that were sent be fixed? Jim.
I offered to pick up replacement slates from Triangle Billiards for Scotts table while I'm in California to replace the slates and make the table right, at the least cost to Triangle Billiards as in they wouldn't have to pay for shipping. I'm NOT going to have my customer pay for something to make it right, when it should have been right in the first place!

Glen

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 01:26 PM
I made contact with Triangle Billiards first, as a way of settling this in a quite manner, and to make things right. But when Joseph hung up on me on the phone, AFTER he'd looked at the pictures I sent him, and could see for himself that the slates were not right, I'm not begging for the right slates, and I'm NOT playing this BS from a Billiards retail store either. Whether they want to accept the fact that they represent BRUNSWICK with these kind of actions or not, it does not change the fact that they DO! Actions like these speak poorly of Brunswick in the long run.

Glen

Scott Lee
08-09-2008, 01:47 PM
If the slates were broken in shipment, then they weren't packed and crated correctly to begin with...which appears to match the attitude of the store in CA. I'd steer clear of Triangle Billiards, in Orange, CA, if it were me. I doubt that Brunswick cares much, since they went to having tables manufactured outside the U.S.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

ScottW
08-09-2008, 01:51 PM
Well, you say insurance covered the cost of replacement slates.

Where did these replacement slates come from? Who specified what slates were to be used for the replacement, who put in the order?

If Triangle was involved in arranging for the replacement slates, and dropped the ball, that's one thing. If they weren't, then they fulfilled their obligations - sold the table, shipped it, insured the shipping.

What *is* Triangle, anyhow? Is it a pool hall? Or a pool table vendor?

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 02:24 PM
Well, you say insurance covered the cost of replacement slates.

Where did these replacement slates come from? Who specified what slates were to be used for the replacement, who put in the order?

If Triangle was involved in arranging for the replacement slates, and dropped the ball, that's one thing. If they weren't, then they fulfilled their obligations - sold the table, shipped it, insured the shipping.

What *is* Triangle, anyhow? Is it a pool hall? Or a pool table vendor?
It's a chain of billiards retail stores. And yes, the replacement slates came from them, charged to the trucking insurance company for the replacement of the broken slates;)

Glen

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 02:33 PM
I can speak highly of Brunswick itself, as I had a Brunswick 9ft table a customer bought from the Billiards Factory in Las Vegas that when delivered and set up for a customer by the name of Miles, aka Smokey. The mechanics that set the table up just completely ignored the grinds of the slates being so bad, because they were installing Mali cloth, knowing the thick cloth would hide the roll of the balls they didn't even care about the customer.

I came along, replaced the cushions, tightened the pockets, got ready to level the slates...and BAMM...they're horrible! I got on the phone to the store the table was bought from, and of course the store didn't want to have anything to do with it unless Miles wanted to pay for new slates, so I took it up with Sean Cummins, President of Brunswick, and 2 weeks later new replacement slates showed up at the Billiards Factory. I picked up the new slates, and installed them on Miles table and everything turned out perfect.

I just think that when someone represents a company, they should represent the company in the same fashion that the company itself does, and I do believe Brunswick does represent itself very well.

Glen

Craig Fales
08-09-2008, 02:41 PM
I can speak highly of Brunswick itself, as I had a Brunswick 9ft table a customer bought from the Billiards Factory in Las Vegas that when delivered and set up for a customer by the name of Miles, aka Smokey. The mechanics that set the table up just completely ignored the grinds of the slates being so bad, because they were installing Mali cloth, knowing the thick cloth would hide the roll of the balls they didn't even care about the customer.

I came along, replaced the cushions, tightened the pockets, got ready to level the slates...and BAMM...they're horrible! I got on the phone to the store the table was bought from, and of course the store didn't want to have anything to do with it unless Miles wanted to pay for new slates, so I took it up with Sean Cummins, President of Brunswick, and 2 weeks later new replacement slates showed up at the Billiards Factory. I picked up the new slates, and installed them on Miles table and everything turned out perfect.

I just think that when someone represents a company, they should represent the company in the same fashion that the company itself does, and I do believe Brunswick does represent itself very well.

Glen
I think Brunswick would like to hear of all problems with a company that represents their product...I'm thinking that Triangle will soon not be handling Brunswick if they don't make it right....

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 02:55 PM
I can assure you, this problem is not going to go away or get swept under the carpet. I still have a customer that has a Brunswick Gold Crown 3 that is NOT right, and it's not right due to the company that sold the table in the first place. It's not my customer's fault, it's not the original customers fault, it's the fault of the attitude of the selling company. I didn't bash the mechanic's that worked on the table, I in fact fixed what they had done because I felt so bad about what had happened, and didn't even charge Scott for all the extra work I did, in which case had I charged him, it would have run about an extra $775.00 for the rail work, including cushions.

I really feel like it's the job of the mechanic to look out for, and protect their customers from BS like this, and not look the other way....because it's just another pool table for them!

Glen

PS. If the table would have had the original slates with it, and they were the Brunswick slates for that table, and it was sold "as is", I'd have never said a word;)

srober40
08-09-2008, 03:09 PM
Despite the problems with the slate, the table plays great. Cloth is fast and the pockets are fantastic. You have to hit em right to make em.

Glen did a fantastic job making the table play like it should. I am still amazed at how much Glen was able to stretch the cloth. It is super tight. The hack that worked on it before must not have known what he was doing. Glen took his time and corrected the poor work done by the previous felt applicator. (calling this guy a mechanic wouldn't be right)

Thanks again Glen.

Scott
(From McKinney TX)

My next table will be a Diamond.............

highrun55
08-09-2008, 03:12 PM
Well King Cobra, when I hit the powerball lottery, you will be the one putting new diamonds in my room, you are the stuff my friend

Mickey scott
D&D Family Billiards
Thorndale Pa.

highrun55

jimmyg
08-09-2008, 03:18 PM
Whenever I do business with a professional, regardless of the specific discipline, I always look to find someone with exceptional skills, self pride, a strong sense of personal responsibility, honesty, respect, and a work ethic that includes being a perfectionist.

You, Sir, have all. :thumbup:

If I ever need the services of a table mechanic, I will contact you first.

Good luck.
Jim

Brian
08-09-2008, 05:22 PM
Chris was smart enough to have kept the original invoice for the sale of the GC3, and gave it to Scott.

I took the invoice and called Joseph with Triangle Billiards in Orange, CA where the sale was made, informed him of what had happened, sent him pictures of what I had found out about the slates, and asked him if Triangle Billiards would make it right.

He said the table was a used table, and that they had no responsibility for the slate being mis-matched or ground bad.

I informed him that YES, they did. The insurance company had PAID them for the broken slates, and that they had replaced the broken slates with some BS slates that were now on my customers pool table, and that they were NOT the right slates, and that TRIANGLE BILLIARDS had made the choice to pull some bs like that, and that I'd like to correct the problem.

Joseph explained that it had been 8 years since the sale of the table, and that they had NO responsibility for the mis-matched slates....AND HUNG UP ON ME!

All I can say, is I wonder if Sean Cummins, PRESIDENT of BRUNSWICK is aware of one of their BRUNSWICK AUTHERIZED DEALERS pulling some BS like this.

AND, if this had been a DIAMOND table, this would have never gone this far!!!!!!!

Glen

Perhaps you have enough pull on AZB to have the Forum establish a "Hall of Shame". People can expose fraud, poor customer service, excuses by people using AZB to hustle business that keep the money but don't deliver, etc, in one thread to warn the forum members.

Brian

UPlayLucky
08-09-2008, 08:52 PM
Is this the store located in Orange, CA?

rackem
08-09-2008, 08:55 PM
Is this the store located in Orange, CA?
Yes and also a store in Costa Mesa.

realkingcobra
08-09-2008, 09:27 PM
Yep, this is the store. Same store location that was on the sales invoice that Chris gave to Scott. Same invoice I called and talked to Joseph about, in which he insisted that it was a used table they sold. Same table they sent the replacement slates for to replace the broken slates. At first he was suprised that I had the invoice, then he tried to ask me if I knew what I was doing, because "most mechanic's" don't....LOL I asked him, "Do you know who I am?";) YES I know what I'm doing, AND what I'm talking about. Then he hung up on me when I wouldn't see things his way. What way is that, that it don't matter what the customer gets?



Triangle Billiards Service Department
Serving Satisfied Customers for 29 Years.

We are the oldest established billiard and game store in Orange County. Please give us a call and we will show you why we are your #1 choice for all your service and upgrade needs. All service includes a written warranty.

Our professional Service Department offers high-quality services for your pool table such as:

Moving
Moving from any location to another, including within your home or office.

Recovering
Recovering of pool table surface. We have many quality fabrics and color choices. Be sure to ask about the new Brunswick Centennial Stain Resistant Tournament Cloth.

Refinishing
Refinishing of the wood parts of your pool table. We refinish everything all the way up to the entire table.

Repair
Repair services are available on most tables. Call us for an estimate.

Re-rubbering
We can liven up your pool table by replacing old rubber cushions with new active cushions for maximum enjoyment. Ask about Brunswick Centennial Tournament Cushions for the best play available.

Pocket Replacement
Just tell us what kind of pockets you want and we will replace just about any type. Choose from a huge variety of styles and materials.

Re-levelling
We can professionally level your table for consistent ball rolls.


We have been servicing pool tables since the business first opened its doors in 1978. We operate 5 busy crews of experienced pool table mechanics, and we have a $1,000,000 liability policy.

Here's a Tip: To freshen up your table, replace the cloth with Brunswick Centennial Cloth + New Brunswick Centennial Cushions + New Pockets and you will be on your way toward having your best game ever!

Mon-Fri: 10am - 6pm
Sat: 10am - 5pm
Sun: 12 noon - 5pm


Location:

Triangle Billiards
750 E. Katella Ave
Orange, CA 92867
(800) 544-2727 Toll Free
(714) 771-5380
(714) 771-5468 FAX

realkingcobra
08-10-2008, 08:05 AM
What's also important to me, is IF, down the road Scott decides to sell this GC3, and has a knowledgeable mechanic working on delivering and setting up the table again, the conversation could come up again about the slates being mis-matched and ground bad. Which could in turn, effect the selling price of the table to someone else.;)

Glen

satman
08-10-2008, 08:30 AM
I can assure you, this problem is not going to go away or get swept under the carpet. I still have a customer that has a Brunswick Gold Crown 3 that is NOT right, and it's not right due to the company that sold the table in the first place. It's not my customer's fault, it's not the original customers fault, it's the fault of the attitude of the selling company. I didn't bash the mechanic's that worked on the table, I in fact fixed what they had done because I felt so bad about what had happened, and didn't even charge Scott for all the extra work I did, in which case had I charged him, it would have run about an extra $775.00 for the rail work, including cushions.

I really feel like it's the job of the mechanic to look out for, and protect their customers from BS like this, and not look the other way....because it's just another pool table for them!

Glen

PS. If the table would have had the original slates with it, and they were the Brunswick slates for that table, and it was sold "as is", I'd have never said a word;)

You're in a customer service business. That's your job. Good for you. I've had friends tell me, that I shouldn't give my customers small parts for free. Like when I install a phone jack adaptor to plug in a satellite box and a phone. The adaptor sells in retail stores for anywhere from $2.79 to $4.29. I buy them in bulk and pay like 15 cents a piece.
I also do extra labor when doing repairs for people. It keeps them as YOUR customer, and it gets you referrals.
Of course, to some hourly workers, customer service just means the customer didn't call in and complain to the boss. I used to work for a company who looked at things that way. Make us more money, we don't care if the customer likes what we charge, as long as the system works. Cut some corners and get em' done. WOW!!!!!
I believe in this case, the insurance company probably paid for Brunswick replacement slates, and maybe they had this particular set sitting in the back room, or access to them at half the insured price. This is just my guess from the original posters writings.
Either way, the table looks great, and rep to you for taking the time, and extra effort for your customers.

POOLGODBEWITHME
10-16-2008, 02:58 AM
Just curious Glen, did you ever get ahold of brunswick about this issue?
And did they make things right?


,Tom

realkingcobra
10-16-2008, 07:59 AM
Just curious Glen, did you ever get ahold of brunswick about this issue?
And did they make things right?


,Tom
Nope, my last conversation with them ended with them hanging up on me, saying it wasn't their problem!!! It's a ripped off situation if you ask me:angry:

Glen

JoeyInCali
10-16-2008, 08:43 AM
Here's a Tip: To freshen up your table, replace the cloth with Brunswick Centennial Cloth + New Brunswick Centennial Cushions + New Pockets and you will be on your way toward having your best game ever!

Centennial cloth and cushions?
I didn't they existed but I bet they don't beat Simonis and Artemis.

ChrisShanklin
10-16-2008, 08:52 AM
Brunswick Centennial cloth is Championship 3030 dipped in teflon and rebranded it is the only teflon coated worsted cloth. I tend to think that 3030 is better than Simonis, but others would say its not.

As for brunswick cushions :barf:
Artemis are definitely better.

realkingcobra
10-16-2008, 10:09 AM
Brunswick Centennial cloth is Championship 3030 dipped in teflon and rebranded it is the only teflon coated worsted cloth. I tend to think that 3030 is better than Simonis, but others would say its not.

As for brunswick cushions :barf:
Artemis are definitely better.
Chris, try the Simonis 860HR, the Championship 3030 don't come close;)

Glen

mullyman
10-22-2008, 06:14 PM
Nope, my last conversation with them ended with them hanging up on me, saying it wasn't their problem!!! It's a ripped off situation if you ask me:angry:

Glen

The people at Brunswick hung up on you? Damn, that's bold. I would think that even if they were getting pissed off at you that a company of that size would take the time to think of customer care and at least handle it professionally. Hanging up on you? Again, damn.
MULLY

Android
10-23-2008, 04:53 AM
I am not a lawyer (and did not sleep at a holiday inn), but this sounds like fraud to me. If the insurance company paid $1000 for replacement Brunswick slates and Triangle Billiards used $500 slates was the end customer defrauded? I don't know but it might be worth talking to a lawyer or Distrct Attorny about. Maybe even the threat of the law will be enough to get Triangle moving in the right direction.

Andy

Craig Fales
10-23-2008, 06:47 AM
The people at Brunswick hung up on you? Damn, that's bold. I would think that even if they were getting pissed off at you that a company of that size would take the time to think of customer care and at least handle it professionally. Hanging up on you? Again, damn.
MULLY
I think he's referring to the people at Triangle. Yes this could be fraud if the insurance company paid for Brunswick slates and Triangle used cheap knockoff slates. Don't ever go away on this, my next call to Triangle would be from my attorney.

gforces1911
10-23-2008, 07:15 AM
Deleted. Previous two posts covered it.