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rackmsuckr
08-10-2008, 05:52 PM
I look out for her and she teaches me how to run a rack, lol.

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This is from her mySpace page, written when she was 19. She is now 21. We are so going to have so much fun!

Hi, I'm Yu Ram Cha. It's pronounced YOU + DOM . I started playing pool when I was 13 years old. I'm 19 years old now and I'm a professional player in Korea. This has been a big year for me because I finished #1 on Tour in Korea, won my first major international championship, and now coming to USA for first time in my life! Things to know about me is....first my english is not great, and I am trying to learn everyday; winning makes me happy; I am a Christian and my two best memories in life are getting closer to God and coming to America! If you ever meet me, please be patient with my english...and maybe we can shoot a game of pool (:

Nostroke
08-10-2008, 06:09 PM
Hi, I'm Yu Ram Cha. It's pronounced YOU + DOM .(:

Can anybody answer this question for me. Im trying to understand 'names' of non americans.

I figured out the Last Name First thing for most Asian countries finally but on another point, if her name is pronounced DOM, why isnt it spelled that way when its translated to English?

Pretty sure Im gonna look dumb here but wth, it aint the first time. Anyone?

SoundWaves
08-10-2008, 06:40 PM
Pretty sure Im gonna look dumb here but wth, it aint the first time. Anyone?

edit... we+are+dom

bandido
08-10-2008, 06:49 PM
edit... we+are+dom
:yikes: That's hilarious!:rotflmao1: :duck:

Bigjohn
08-10-2008, 06:49 PM
I look out for her and she teaches me how to run a rack, lol.

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This is from her mySpace page, written when she was 19. She is now 21. We are so going to have so much fun!

Hi, I'm Yu Ram Cha. It's pronounced YOU + DOM . I started playing pool when I was 13 years old. I'm 19 years old now and I'm a professional player in Korea. This has been a big year for me because I finished #1 on Tour in Korea, won my first major international championship, and now coming to USA for first time in my life! Things to know about me is....first my english is not great, and I am trying to learn everyday; winning makes me happy; I am a Christian and my two best memories in life are getting closer to God and coming to America! If you ever meet me, please be patient with my english...and maybe we can shoot a game of pool (:

Don't understand the take under the wing part??????

"T"
08-10-2008, 07:40 PM
I look out for her and she teaches me how to run a rack, lol.

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This is from her mySpace page, written when she was 19. She is now 21. We are so going to have so much fun!

Hi, I'm Yu Ram Cha. It's pronounced YOU + DOM . I started playing pool when I was 13 years old. I'm 19 years old now and I'm a professional player in Korea. This has been a big year for me because I finished #1 on Tour in Korea, won my first major international championship, and now coming to USA for first time in my life! Things to know about me is....first my english is not great, and I am trying to learn everyday; winning makes me happy; I am a Christian and my two best memories in life are getting closer to God and coming to America! If you ever meet me, please be patient with my english...and maybe we can shoot a game of pool (:

Pretty cool! The first thing that pops into my mind is that guitar playing daughter of yours corrupting her, or maybe vise versa? :D

rackmsuckr
08-10-2008, 11:11 PM
Don't understand the take under the wing part??????

Well, she is a young player in a new part of the country. I will make sure she gets to and from the airport and the tournament, has a place to stay, translate if necessary (yeah, right) and basically make sure she is comfortable and all set. She will have someone to hang out with and explain rules, etc.

I am sure she would be perfectly capable of doing it all with just a little help, but I am honored that it is going to be me.

And yes, my 21 year old daughter will be there, sharing stories and Yu Ram may feel more comfortable with someone near her age around her.

Luxury
08-11-2008, 01:51 AM
Where is this tournament? Will she be in Washington?

HomeBrewer
08-11-2008, 03:14 AM
Can anybody answer this question for me. Im trying to understand 'names' of non americans.

I figured out the Last Name First thing for most Asian countries finally but on another point, if her name is pronounced DOM, why isnt it spelled that way when its translated to English?

Pretty sure Im gonna look dumb here but wth, it aint the first time. Anyone?

The method most commonly used to bring Chinese into English is called Pinyin, pronounced like 'peenyeen' in English. After many (possibly hundreds?) of years attempting to develop such a system, Pinyin has finally been agreed upon by most nerds involved as the best way to phonetically Anglicize spoken Chinese, and to write the language in a way that doesn't necessitate us learning a character-based system to be able to convey Chinese in written form.

It really doesn't take too much study before you can read it and know how to pronounce something out loud from it, but that is of course not the same thing as pronouncing words perfectly (as you've seen is the case in trying to pronounce Yu Ram Cha's name). That is to say, despite Pinyin being a phonetic system, some sounds are just not intuitive to English speakers, just as speakers of many Asian languages commonly have trouble with the sounds from our language that flat-out don't exist in theirs.

Anyway, for the Pinyin letter 'r' ... reach your tongue up and as far back towards your tonsils as it will go in your mouth. Now put it forward 'til it reaches the back of your front-upper teeth. Calculate the midpoint of the two, put your tongue there, and move it forward and down while aspirating a blend of the sounds 'd', 'r', and 'zh'.

Yeah. That's why she just says to pronounce it 'DOM'.

HomeBrewer
08-11-2008, 03:21 AM
Wait, isn't she Korean?

Anyway, same principles apply.

Cornerman
08-11-2008, 04:20 AM
Can anybody answer this question for me. Im trying to understand 'names' of non americans.

I figured out the Last Name First thing for most Asian countries finally but on another point, if her name is pronounced DOM, why isnt it spelled that way when its translated to English?

Pretty sure Im gonna look dumb here but wth, it aint the first time. Anyone?

It'd be easier to hear me on this one Dave. But, I'll try.

Yu Ram.

Pretty much every where else in the world except for English speaking countries, the letter "A" is pronounced something very close to "ah." I'd like to say "a" as in father, but you being from NYC, and I being from Western Mass will say "ah" completely different. Just like Schon Cues. Schon as in "hot".

So, that's the "A" in Ram. Ask any Spanish speaker how they pronouce an "A" and it's the same thing.

The "R" is trickier. The letters L and R are "liquid" consanants in English. BUt, there is only one liquid consonant in many of the Asian languages. Even in the original Baybayin in the Philippines, there was only one. With the Spanish influence, there are now both L's and R's. But in Chinese, Japanese, and presumably Korean, there would only be one. This is why you'll hear many Asians who don't speak much English use R's instead of L's and vice versa.

That being said, when I took a Japanese class (which is where I got the above information plus Linguistics 101 in college), the teacher when she made the liquid sound would trill her tongue (yeah, it was pretty sexy) such that the sound of that liquid consonant (Ra, Re, Ri, Ro, Ru) had a hint of a "D" sound trilled with an "R" sound. She never realized it, so that could be true for many native speakers But, anyway, I can imagine hearing "Yu Ram" as You Dom with the "D" being a trilled liquid consonant..{edit: to be very clear, this is not a trilled R sound like Spanish. It's something hard to describe, but the linguistics students would call it a 'postalveolar flap' with some speakers using a popping of the tongue very slightly such that a hint of D is heard between the L and R sounds}

IMO, it is the English that has it wrong, not vice versa. Phoenetically speaking. For example, your name would be pronounced Dah Vay or Dah Veh if the speaker didn't know how to pronounce Dave.

Fred <~~~ linguistically speaking

rackmsuckr
08-11-2008, 08:03 AM
Thank you Home Brewer and Fred for the explanation. It sounds like (no pun intended) that it is very close to Spanish, where you roll your R's and the A sounds like Ah.

rackmsuckr
08-11-2008, 08:05 AM
Where is this tournament? Will she be in Washington?

Yes, come on out to Parlor Billiards in Bellevue. It will be a qualifier and you will get to see her scorch through the field. :cool:

Cornerman
08-12-2008, 04:03 AM
Thank you Home Brewer and Fred for the explanation. It sounds like (no pun intended) that it is very close to Spanish, where you roll your R's and the A sounds like Ah.
Not nearly as heavy like the rolled Rs in the Euro languages, but it's a similar tongue mechanism that makes just a hint of a D sound.

Fred

Nostroke
08-13-2008, 11:37 AM
It'd be easier to hear me on this one Dave. But, I'll try.

Yu Ram.

Pretty much every where else in the world except for English speaking countries, the letter "A" is pronounced something very close to "ah." I'd like to say "a" as in father, but you being from NYC, and I being from Western Mass will say "ah" completely different. Just like Schon Cues. Schon as in "hot".

So, that's the "A" in Ram. Ask any Spanish speaker how they pronouce an "A" and it's the same thing.

The "R" is trickier. The letters L and R are "liquid" consanants in English. BUt, there is only one liquid consonant in many of the Asian languages. Even in the original Baybayin in the Philippines, there was only one. With the Spanish influence, there are now both L's and R's. But in Chinese, Japanese, and presumably Korean, there would only be one. This is why you'll hear many Asians who don't speak much English use R's instead of L's and vice versa.

That being said, when I took a Japanese class (which is where I got the above information plus Linguistics 101 in college), the teacher when she made the liquid sound would trill her tongue (yeah, it was pretty sexy) such that the sound of that liquid consonant (Ra, Re, Ri, Ro, Ru) had a hint of a "D" sound trilled with an "R" sound. She never realized it, so that could be true for many native speakers. But, anyway, I can imagine hearing "Yu Ram" as You Dom with the "D" being a trilled liquid consonant.

IMO, it is the English that has it wrong, not vice versa. Phoenetically speaking. For example, your name would be pronounced Dah Vay or Dah Veh if the speaker didn't know how to pronounce Dave.

Fred <~~~ linguistically speaking

Thanks Fred but i m still struggling. I dont think there is a letter for letter exchange between the two languages correct? E.G. I mean Chinese doesnt even have an alphabet perod. SO my queston is-Why does Yu Ram Cha choose to spell it with an R which if my 'no letter for letter' theory is corect was her choice seeing as she knows and has said it is pronounced Dom.

Take Ga Young-the Ga is pronouned by those with a Korean background as if the G has a bit of 'K' in it. She had to choose an English letter however and she uses one (G) that fits the best. We dont have a letter that is half G and half K so the G has to do but Yu Ram does have a letter 'D' that pronounces her name just like she wants it-Why not use it?

I dont want anyone to think this is about YRC-This is about me trying to understand 'languages' a litttle better. Thanks.

Eric.
08-13-2008, 12:21 PM
Thanks Fred but i m still struggling. I dont think there is a letter for letter exchange between the two languages correct? E.G. I mean Chinese doesnt even have an alphabet perod. SO my queston is-Why does Yu Ram Cha choose to spell it with an R which if my 'no letter for letter' theory is corect was her choice seeing as she knows and has said it is pronounced Dom.

Take Ga Young-the Ga is pronouned by those with a Korean background as if the G has a bit of 'K' in it. She had to choose an English letter however and she uses one (G) that fits the best. We dont have a letter that is half G and half K so the G has to do but Yu Ram does have a letter 'D' that pronounces her name just like she wants it-Why not use it?

I dont want anyone to think this is about YRC-This is about me trying to understand 'languages' a litttle better. Thanks.


Nostroke,

Fred's explanation is only sorta, kinda right, but it does sound very authoritative. :p
The best explanation is that some languages like Korean or Chinese for examp[le, just don't translate well into English. FWIW, I believe that a large portion of the Korean vocabulary was taken from Chinese. There just isn't a way to phonetically transpose words without losing inflections. In Korean (like Chinese), sometimes the "R" isn't a hard, defined "R". It's not trilled either. The best attempt at explaining it is that it is a soft, partial "R".

It kinda reminds my of the Olympic badminton player from China named "Xie". It's not "see" or "tsie" or "sigh"...it's "sheeyea".


Eric >no habla

Cornerman
08-13-2008, 12:34 PM
Take Ga Young-the Ga is pronouned by those with a Korean background as if the G has a bit of 'K' in it. She had to choose an English letter however and she uses one (G) that fits the best. We dont have a letter that is half G and half K so the G has to do but Yu Ram does have a letter 'D' that pronounces her name just like she wants it-Why not use it? Because it's not quite a D. It's an L and R, with just a hint of D in the background. Some people will hear more of the D. Some people who know the sound of that liquid consonant will hear it and only it. Some people will only hear the R.

As I said, hearing it would be a hell of a lot easier than me explaining. it.


I dont want anyone to think this is about YRC-This is about me trying to understand 'languages' a litttle better. Thanks.
I think the post on Pinyin probably answers to that. It's simply a matter of phoenetics. And one person's phoenetics are slightly different than the next. Someone came up with a "best letter for letter" in pinyin But, also, when it came to it, she (Yu Ram) legitimately had 3 letters to choose from: L, R or D for her name. I don't know how many Japanese or Koreans ever choose D. She may have had it written down as Ram long before she realized it sounded like "Dom" to anyone else. Someone probably said to her that it sounded like "Dom." Someone else might say that it sounds like "Rom."

Similar to your example, even words that have come to the US that are Chinese, Korean, or Japanese are simply spelled differently depending on where they came from and where they landed. For example, you'll see Chinese Kung Fu written as Gung Foo. Sichuan vs. Szechuan. Li vs. Lee.

If you take a Linguistics class or even a Classical class on the migration of people, say, in Europe (the study of Indo-European languages and its development and modifications), you'll see how some words like the name of Zeus and the word Pater (father) has changed to Jupitar in the Roman to Greek translation. Nearly none of the letters are the same as far as English speakers are concerned, but phoenetic study-wise, its clear they are the same.

It's really that simple. Try having your names phoenetically changed over to Korean or Japanese. They have to add a letter that doesn't really exist in your name to get it close. Then you'll have to say, "it's really pronounced like Davee, not Daveye." And then someone on their end will be asking how's come you didn't just translate it to something closer!!

Fred <~~~ okay, Linguistics class is nearly over.

Cornerman
08-13-2008, 12:44 PM
Nostroke,

Fred's explanation is only sorta, kinda right, but it does sound very authoritative. :p

Eric >no hablaOh come on!!! I was slightly better than "sorta right!"

Fred <~~~ laymanishly right?

Nostroke
08-13-2008, 12:46 PM
She may have had it written down as Ram long before she realized it sounded like "Dom" to anyone else. Someone probably said to her that it sounded like "Dom." Someone else might say that it sounds like "Rom."



Now we are getting somewhere- that makes sense. thanks Fred

and thanks for your work on TAR- I enjoyed the MD shootout tremendously.

Eric.
08-13-2008, 12:51 PM
Oh come on!!! I was slightly better than "sorta right!"

Fred <~~~ laymanishly right?


As close as a "foul tip" in Baseball. ;)


Eric

TheNewSharkster
08-13-2008, 12:54 PM
Yes, come on out to Parlor Billiards in Bellevue. It will be a qualifier and you will get to see her scorch through the field. :cool:


Thats right down the road from me. What day?

Nostroke
08-13-2008, 01:02 PM
Nostroke,

Fred's explanation is only sorta, kinda right, but it does sound very authoritative. :p
The best explanation is that some languages like Korean or Chinese for examp[le, just don't translate well into English. FWIW, I believe that a large portion of the Korean vocabulary was taken from Chinese. There just isn't a way to phonetically transpose words without losing inflections. In Korean (like Chinese), sometimes the "R" isn't a hard, defined "R".

Hey Eric.!
I undertand that but YRC states that the 'D' reflects the proper pronunciation of her name in English yet she decided to spell it with an 'R'. The only explanation that makes sense to me is that she chose the 'R' before she realized the D was a better fit which is what Fred alluded to.

AT any rate, I look forward to seeing you and the lovely misses in 2 weeks at the Straight Pool Champioship.

Eric.
08-13-2008, 02:50 PM
Hey Eric.!
I undertand that but YRC states that the 'D' reflects the proper pronunciation of her name in English yet she decided to spell it with an 'R'. The only explanation that makes sense to me is that she chose the 'R' before she realized the D was a better fit which is what Fred alluded to.

AT any rate, I look forward to seeing you and the lovely misses in 2 weeks at the Straight Pool Champioship.

Nostroke,

Korean, being similar to Chinese, uses the same "pronunciation techniques".

Fred got the "a" sound right. The "r" is pronounced by lightly pressing your tongue to the roof of your mouth or the back of your front teeth (at least I do) and it is a "soft r", without a pronounced "rrr". It is definitely not trilled.

Ask Gike sometime, she speaks both Korean and Mandarin.

Oh, I'll see ya at the 14.1 thing. Being that I live about 10 min away, it would be crazy not to go.


Eric

Hidy Ho
08-13-2008, 04:00 PM
Korean, being similar to Chinese, uses the same "pronunciation techniques".


OK man ... Korean is no where close to Chinese. Korean, like Japanese, is NOT a tonal language like Chinese or Thai (where a word written as "ma" can have various different meaning based on tonality of it. Since I didn't grow up with tonal language, this was most difficult for me to grasp when I was learning Thai.

I can speak, write and read Korean (I also speak Jive) and I don't find it all that difficult to write Korean in phonetic English.

I don't know where this YOU-DOM thing is coming from. When I read her name is Korean, it's very close to "yu-ram" or "yu-rahm". And I think "ga-young" is must closer to Korean pronunciation than "Ka-young". In old school, they always used "K" instead of "G" and I never understood why. Ga-Young's last name is spelled Kim in English but in Korean, I think it's closer to Gim (g as in geese and not gym).

In fact, in English, my last name start with "ch" but in Korean, it's pronounced more close to "J" and many Chinese spelling is "zh".

poolplayer2093
08-13-2008, 04:02 PM
Can anybody answer this question for me. Im trying to understand 'names' of non americans.

I figured out the Last Name First thing for most Asian countries finally but on another point, if her name is pronounced DOM, why isnt it spelled that way when its translated to English?

Pretty sure Im gonna look dumb here but wth, it aint the first time. Anyone?

ive always wondered this as well

Eric.
08-13-2008, 04:08 PM
OK man ... Korean is no where close to Chinese. Korean, like Japanese, is NOT a tonal language like Chinese or Thai (where a word written as "ma" can have various different meaning based on tonality of it. Since I didn't grow up with tonal language, this was most difficult for me to grasp when I was learning Thai.

I can speak, write and read Korean (I also speak Jive) and I don't find it all that difficult to write Korean in phonetic English.

I don't know where this YOU-DOM thing is coming from. When I read her name is Korean, it's very close to "yu-ram" or "yu-rahm". And I think "ga-young" is must closer to Korean pronunciation than "Ka-young". In old school, they always used "K" instead of "G" and I never understood why. Ga-Young's last name is spelled Kim in English but in Korean, I think it's closer to Gim (g as in geese and not gym).

In fact, in English, my last name start with "ch" but in Korean, it's pronounced more close to "J" and many Chinese spelling is "zh".

Youre kidding, right? Not only is Korean similar in style (I'm not saying that it close like Spanish to Italian), but a lot of the Korean language is more or less a derivative of Chinese, even though you wont be able to converse back and forth. Jazz, you are joking, right?

I agree that it is pronounced as yu-rahm (with the "soft r" description).

Edit- similar might not have been the best description, more like similar techniques to enunciate (without the tonal inlfections)

Eric >:confused:

Hidy Ho
08-13-2008, 04:31 PM
but a lot of the Korean language is more or less a derivative of Chinese, even though you wont be able to converse back and forth. Jazz, you are joking, right?

No I'm not joking. There are many Korean who would take offense at this assumption. I'm not an expert as I came over to The Promise Land as early teen. Some of this stuff I have to ask my parents who are both post-college grads and have taught Korean language in US for over 25 years before retirement as lowly paid fed gov employees.

Here's a link and some info:

http://www.declan-software.com/korean.htm#Origins_

There is a consensus among linguists that Korean is a member of the Altaic family of languages, which originated in northern Asia and includes the Mongol, Turkic, Finnish, Hungarian, and Tungusic (Manchu) languages. Although a historical relationship between Korean and Japanese has not been established, the two languages have strikingly similar grammatical structures.

...

The Korean language may be written using a mixture of Chinese ideograms (hancha) and a native Korean alphabet known as hangul, or in hangul alone, much as in a more limited way Indo-European languages sometimes write numbers using Arabic symbols and at other times spell numbers out in their own alphabets or in some combination of the two forms. See the section on this page for a further discussion of the orginal of hangul.
[Jazz - there has been recent "movement" to move away from hancha to 100% hangul]
...

Although the Korean and Chinese languages are not related in terms of grammatical structure, more than 50 percent of all Korean vocabulary is derived from Chinese loanwords, a reflection of the cultural dominance of China over 2 millennia. In many cases there are two words--a Chinese loanword and an indigenous Korean word -- meaning the same thing. The Chinese-based word in Korean sometimes has a bookish or formal flavor. Koreans select one or the other variant to achieve the proper register in speech or in writing, and to make subtle distinctions of meaning in accordance with established usage.
[Jazz - they are not pronounced same)]
...

Almost all Korean adults can read/write some level of Chinese characters (although Korean is alphabet based language). My parents, when visiting China, can communicate by writing Chinese.

Eric.
08-13-2008, 04:48 PM
No I'm not joking. There are many Korean who would take offense at this assumption. I'm not an expert as I came over to The Promise Land as early teen. Some of this stuff I have to ask my parents who are both post-college grads and have taught Korean language in US for over 25 years before retirement as lowly paid fed gov employees.

Here's a link and some info:

http://www.declan-software.com/korean.htm#Origins_

There is a consensus among linguists that Korean is a member of the Altaic family of languages, which originated in northern Asia and includes the Mongol, Turkic, Finnish, Hungarian, and Tungusic (Manchu) languages. Although a historical relationship between Korean and Japanese has not been established, the two languages have strikingly similar grammatical structures.

...

The Korean language may be written using a mixture of Chinese ideograms (hancha) and a native Korean alphabet known as hangul, or in hangul alone, much as in a more limited way Indo-European languages sometimes write numbers using Arabic symbols and at other times spell numbers out in their own alphabets or in some combination of the two forms. See the section on this page for a further discussion of the orginal of hangul.
[Jazz - there has been recent "movement" to move away from hancha to 100% hangul]
...

Although the Korean and Chinese languages are not related in terms of grammatical structure, more than 50 percent of all Korean vocabulary is derived from Chinese loanwords, a reflection of the cultural dominance of China over 2 millennia. In many cases there are two words--a Chinese loanword and an indigenous Korean word -- meaning the same thing. The Chinese-based word in Korean sometimes has a bookish or formal flavor. Koreans select one or the other variant to achieve the proper register in speech or in writing, and to make subtle distinctions of meaning in accordance with established usage.
[Jazz - they are not pronounced same)]
...

Almost all Korean adults can read/write some level of Chinese characters (although Korean is alphabet based language). My parents, when visiting China, can communicate by writing Chinese.

We agree.


Eric >not a linguist, prefers fettucini

Hidy Ho
08-13-2008, 05:04 PM
We agree.


Eric >not a linguist, prefers fettucini

I thought it's seafood :confused: