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cuetable
08-11-2008, 03:12 PM
You have just broke in a 8 ball game and pocked a stripe ball. In the current rule the table is open and you can choose either solids or stripes to continue.

1, Which would you choose?
2, What are the potential problems and how do you solve them?
3, Do you see a good way to run out from here?
4, Do you see a good way to run out from here without moving your opponent's balls?


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS4ILXe4Ja ks3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf4PYjg@

*Both the one ball and the ten ball do not have very clear pathways to their nearest pockets.
http://cuetable.com/pub/8b-1.jpg

dabarbr
08-11-2008, 03:58 PM
What is blocking the ten ball? No matter, I would select the solids. The main reason is because of the position of the 14 and 15 balls along with the fact that pocketing the 10 ball there is no guarantee of securing position for another shot. The 6 ball is guarding the entrance of the stripe in the upper top corner.

In selecting the solids the 1 and 5 balls are the problem. It looks like starting with the 7 then position for the 5 to the same side pocket as the 7, then working toward the 2 or the 3. This is where the question is as to what to do to get a shot on the 1. Either positioning the 1 or moving it. Once the 1 is pocketed then the rest is just a matter of staying in control of the cue ball.

The 4 or 3 are good to get on the 8 but if the 6 had to be used for the eight it might require more work but very doable.

Upon looking at the diagram again , I believe the 6 ball is the best ball to get on the 8. Positioning the 6 from the area of the 4 ball. Pocketing the 6 and coming out 2 rails for the eight.

8-Baller
08-11-2008, 06:42 PM
Solids is definitely the way to go. The only trick here is getting the one ball in a pocket. Should be no problem getting at it if you position properly. Here's what I'd do:

7 in the side (stop shot)
2 in the corner and draw cueball closer to mid-table
4 in the corner with a bit of right english

So here's the tricky part:
3 in the bottom left corner and bring cueball closer to mid-table, ideally near the tip of the triangle.
2 in the bottom left corner and carom the cueball into the 1 hard enough so that the 1 ball banks off the bottom rail to the middle of the table
If you did that right (and it shouldn't be too hard, given the proximity of the 2 and 1 balls with eachother), you should have a clear look at the 1 to the top left corner.

After that, do a straight runout with the 5 in the side (assuming you left a decent angle for yourself), 6 in the corner and 8 in the side.

:grin:

alstl
08-11-2008, 08:10 PM
The 5 is the biggest problem imo because it only has a couple pockets. 7-2-1-5-6-4-3-money.

Avoid stripes because no easy way to get on the 14-15.

But then I'm just a banger.

Cornerman
08-11-2008, 08:46 PM
Whatever the case, the decision of which set to choose has nothing to do with the proximity of any ball to the 8-ball.

You would choose solids because it controls the table a bit better. But, a good player given the stripes would just figure the bank on the 12-ball and get out, so the solids with its 1-ball doesn't lay that much better than the stripes, but they do lay a touch better.

Fred <~~~ wouldn't get out

halhoule
08-11-2008, 09:50 PM
Did You Ever Scratch On The Cue Ball. ???
Did You Know How To Never Scratch On The Cue Ball. ???

halhoule
08-11-2008, 09:58 PM
Did You Ever Scratch On The Cue Ball. ???
Did You Know How To Never Scratch On The Cue Ball. ???

HAL HOULE

dabarbr
08-11-2008, 10:59 PM
Solids is definitely the way to go. The only trick here is getting the one ball in a pocket. Should be no problem getting at it if you position properly. Here's what I'd do:

7 in the side (stop shot)
2 in the corner and draw cueball closer to mid-table
4 in the corner with a bit of right english

So here's the tricky part:
3 in the bottom left corner and bring cueball closer to mid-table, ideally near the tip of the triangle.
2 in the bottom left corner and carom the cueball into the 1 hard enough so that the 1 ball banks off the bottom rail to the middle of the table
If you did that right (and it shouldn't be too hard, given the proximity of the 2 and 1 balls with eachother), you should have a clear look at the 1 to the top left corner.

After that, do a straight runout with the 5 in the side (assuming you left a decent angle for yourself), 6 in the corner and 8 in the side.

:grin:
It looks to me like you are taking two shots at the 2 ball.

There appears to be an angle on the 7 ball that will allow you to stun the cue ball and get a shot on 5 ball to the upper side pocket. IMO, like someone else mentioned, the 5 ball is more of a problem than the 1 ball.

Once you pocket the five ball and depending on if you get a nice angle to get over to the 3 or the 2 ball to work something for the 1 ball. At this point you will have three balls (the 2, 3 and 4) to decide as what to do with the 1 ball. With the 2 ball gone, that will free the 1 ball for either the upper left corner or the upper side pocket.

The 6 ball is the only ball that I would consider to use to get on the 8 ball. The other balls have many problems to get to the eight. Unless you plan on the eight ball to the bottom corner.

grindz
08-12-2008, 12:52 AM
Solids

5 and 1

7-5 in side, draw to 1 same side, 2 in corner, 3, 4, 6 and 8 You win!

Masayoshi
08-12-2008, 02:12 AM
I like stripes against a very strong opponent because the 1 seems like a pretty big problem if I am determined to not let my opponent back at the table (the 9 passes the 3, right?). If I was certain my opponent would not likely be able to deal with the 12 and 14/15 I might take solids.

My order for stripes would be 10, 9, 11, 12 on the short side. From there, depending on the angle on the 12, I can decide to either shoot the 14 in the side or go short side on the 14 and 15 and have my choice from there. This way the only real tough situation would be if I got on the rail with a thin cut on the 12 which I would make absolute sure to avoid.

8-Baller
08-12-2008, 04:18 AM
It looks to me like you are taking two shots at the 2 ball.


haha....you're right.... that explains why I keep losing.....


:grin-square:

Aaron_S
08-12-2008, 07:26 AM
Neither set jumps out at me as being significantly easier than the other, but I would probably choose solids and try to run out 7, 5, 2, 1, 3, 4, 6. I did, however, notice one nice thing about the stripes that makes them look a bit less menacing. By shooting the 9-ball as the first shot, you could give yourself a pretty good opportunity to clear the biggest trouble balls (14/15) right off the bat, while leaving the 10 as an insurance ball in case the 8-ball gets in the way. Something like this:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS4ILXe4Ja ks3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf4PYjg4dLXe3dcAe4kYjg4kOBY4kP xl4kbnF1kVXy@

Everything appears to pass, and I wouldn't fault someone for attempting to get out this way.


Good rolls,

Aaron

Black-Balled
08-12-2008, 07:28 AM
Did You Ever Scratch On The Cue Ball. ???
Did You Know How To Never Scratch On The Cue Ball. ???

HAL HOULE

Ride bicycles?

Patrick Johnson
08-12-2008, 08:26 AM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS4ILXe4Ja ks3KRgU2LOwo1NKHL1OMch4PYjg4Qacc3RGPu4dLXe3datc4ea ks4ebSd3fRgU2fbdA4kYjg4kakc4lakc4lNsb3lGPt3mGPu3mQ Bh2mbFL2mXdp@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1H UAS3IcYu4JdOv3KdxB2LOwo1NKHL1OMch2PXUp1QDvk1RCnr2g Owo1gbbjza1iKHL1ieGB1jMch1jbbj2kXUp2kRJh2kEvj1kDvk 1lDvk1lITY1lCns1mCnr1mLeT1mbff1mHSx@4ARRn4BMTy4CBd N3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS3IcYu4JdOv3KdxB1LdWt1NeG B1OdWs1PHSy1cUAS1cbUD1kHSy1kRfY@

The key shot is getting the precise angle on the 11 in the side so you can get behind the 12. After that it's easy.

The first stop shot on the 10 leaves you perfect for the controlled rollthrough on the 9 for shape on the 11, so it should be do-able. If you flummox the shape on the 11 you can try the tight 12 ball shot into the upper right corner or going past the 12 for the shot in the upper left corner.

See pages 2 & 3 for the rest of the runout.

pj
chgo

skor
08-12-2008, 08:38 AM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS4ILXe4Ja ks3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf4PYjg@


7 in the top side
4 in the top left corner, leave an angle for the 3
3 in the bottom left corner, leave an angle for the 2 into the same pocket
2 in the bottom left corner, draw back for the 1
1 in the bottom left corner, draw back for the 5
5 in the top side, play position for the 6
6 in the top right corner and come back up for 8 in the bottom side pocket.

hang-the-9
08-12-2008, 10:23 AM
You have just broke in a 8 ball game and pocked a stripe ball. In the current rule the table is open and you can choose either solids or stripes to continue.

1, Which would you choose?
2, What are the potential problems and how do you solve them?
3, Do you see a good way to run out from here?
4, Do you see a good way to run out from here without moving your opponent's balls?


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS4ILXe4Ja ks3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf4PYjg@

*Both the one ball and the ten ball do not have very clear pathways to their nearest pockets.
http://cuetable.com/pub/8b-1.jpg

7 -> roll midway to 11, 2 in the corner -> roll to opposite side of the 1 by the rail where the cueball started originaly, 1 in corner by the 4 -> roll forward for 6 in the corner -> come around 2 or 1 rail for the 5 in side or corner depending on the angle you get on the 6 -> 4 in the corner, drift to the rail -> 3 in the corner with a bit of follow to go around the 9 -> 8 in the corner.

Pete
08-12-2008, 11:17 AM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS4ILXe4Ja ks3KRgU2LOwo1NKHL1OMch4PYjg4Qacc3RGPu4dLXe3datc4ea ks4ebSd3fRgU2fbdA4kYjg4kakc4lakc4lNsb3lGPt3mGPu3mQ Bh2mbFL2mXdp@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1H UAS3IcYu4JdOv3KdxB2LOwo1NKHL1OMch2PXUp1QDvk1RCnr2g Owo1gbbjza1iKHL1ieGB1jMch1jbbj2kXUp2kRJh2kEvj1kDvk 1lDvk1lITY1lCns1mCnr1mLeT1mbff1mHSx@4ARRn4BMTy4CBd N3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS3IcYu4JdOv3KdxB1LdWt1NeG B1OdWs1PHSy1cUAS1cbUD1kHSy1kRfY@

The key shot is getting the precise angle on the 11 in the side so you can get behind the 12. After that it's easy.

The first stop shot on the 10 leaves you perfect for the controlled rollthrough on the 9 for shape on the 11, so it should be do-able. If you flummox the shape on the 11 you can try the tight 12 ball shot into the upper right corner or going past the 12 for the shot in the upper left corner.

See pages 2 & 3 for the rest of the runout.

pj
chgo

This is the Pattern I saw. Don't know how well I would do with it, but it is what I would go for.

Pete

dabarbr
08-12-2008, 11:41 AM
This is the Pattern I saw. Don't know how well I would do with it, but it is what I would go for.

Pete
This is a fine pattern for the stripes. Patrick Johnson also suggested this. I myself consider this to require too much precision. The 9 ball must be hit perfect along with the 12 ball. You might wind up having to shoot the 14 or 15 balls into the lower side pocket which I consider risky.

I would select this pattern for the stripes but only if I didn't have a choice for the solids. The solids have more flexibility for error. Multiply choices with the 2,3 and 4 balls to acquire a shot on the 1 ball.

Siz
08-12-2008, 11:50 PM
The 12/14/15 makes stripes very tough.

If I were forced to take stripes, I would probably play the 10 and draw back towards the 14 & 15. I would then decide whether or not to try to run the rack depending on whether I had the right shape on either the 14 or 15 to get behind the 12 (either going straight across the table or off the end rail). If not, a safety off the 15 behind the 14.

Sticking with stripes, Aaron's alternative of opening with the cut 9 for position on the 14/15 does have the attraction of leaving the 10 blocking the 1 in case the safety route is chosen. But personally I would not feel confident of missing the 8.

However, given the choice, solids look better. The 1 is the biggest problem ball, and I would try to clear the 2 out of the way and then use the 4 to come across to the side rail to shoot the 1 into either corner or center.

So 7 into center, 5 (another problem) into same pocket, 2, 3 4, 1, 6, 8. The ending is not ideal given the uncertain shape on the 1. But you would be unlucky when shooting the 1 not to have a path to get the c.b. to near the side rail for the 6,8.

cuetable
08-13-2008, 03:58 AM
Here is a video from IPT2005 - King of the Hill - Efren Reyes vs Ray Martin posted by victor2k. Efren has an interesting solution for the layout.

*Please note I don't mean to post the video as THE ANSWER. Rather, please view it as an interesting discussion material. I'd like to hear what people think of Efren's choice :)

http://library.cuetable.com/showthread.php?p=2589#post2589

Cornerman
08-13-2008, 04:29 AM
Here is a video from IPT2005 - King of the Hill - Efren Reyes vs Ray Martin posted by victor2k. Efren has an interesting solution for the layout.

*Please note I don't mean to post the video as THE ANSWER. Rather, please view it as an interesting discussion material. I'd like to hear what people think of Efren's choice :)

http://library.cuetable.com/showthread.php?p=2589#post2589
I think this is a good reason why I think you won't see me doing a diagram of the entire out on here sometimes, Wei. If anyone posted that runout, he'd get barbequed on here.

To me, it seemed obvious (as it did to many) that you have to either work your way to the 1-ball in the side, or move the stripe in the corner. Moving the stripe is fraught with peril, so getting to the 1-ball in the side is the whole out. But, it takes precision to be a favorite to run out from here.

Fred

Snapshot9
08-13-2008, 05:02 AM
I usually like favor stripes a little, but would take solids, less problems to deal with. Stripes require lots of perfect shape, which doesn't always happen.

7 in side, draw back for 5 in same side. Shot afterwards depends on the angle I had on the 5 ball to begin with. Could be the 1 ball, 4 ball, or 6 ball.

With 7, 5 out of the way, and getting the 1 ball out of the way, it is not hard to finish the run. I never worry about the 8 ball if in the open because I can always get shape on it anywhere on the table.

I always try to leave my options open for runs, have backup balls for shape, and can switch to plan B or C whenever I need to, to finish the run.

Patrick Johnson
08-13-2008, 07:07 AM
Here is a video from IPT2005 - King of the Hill - Efren Reyes vs Ray Martin posted by victor2k. Efren has an interesting solution for the layout.

*Please note I don't mean to post the video as THE ANSWER. Rather, please view it as an interesting discussion material. I'd like to hear what people think of Efren's choice :)

http://library.cuetable.com/showthread.php?p=2589#post2589

Efren's solution couldn't be THE solution - beginning with his opening shot it's just about impossible with the Cuetable layout:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS4ILXe4Ja ks3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf4PYjg4bABD2bbUA4kYjg4kCVI5kF fb2kIOj2kOep@

pj
chgo

Flettir
08-13-2008, 09:04 AM
You have just broke in a 8 ball game and pocked a stripe ball. In the current rule the table is open and you can choose either solids or stripes to continue.

1, Which would you choose?
2, What are the potential problems and how do you solve them?
3, Do you see a good way to run out from here?
4, Do you see a good way to run out from here without moving your opponent's balls?


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS4ILXe4Ja ks3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf4PYjg@

*Both the one ball and the ten ball do not have very clear pathways to their nearest pockets.
http://cuetable.com/pub/8b-1.jpg

How about the 7 stop-4 stun for leave-3 top left to setup 1 for the side-1 slight follow for angle-2 top med to get cue to top long wall-6 right english 2 walls around the 14/15 bottom long wall near the 8-5 in side with stop-8 straight in.

I really do need to learn to use the wei table.

cuetable
08-13-2008, 02:12 PM
Efren's solution couldn't be THE solution - beginning with his opening shot it's just about impossible with the Cuetable layout:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS4ILXe4Ja ks3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf4PYjg4bABD2bbUA4kYjg4kCVI5kF fb2kIOj2kOep@

pj
chgo

I did alter the beginning layout a little to make it more fair for one to choose either solid or stripes. A similar open position can be achieved by top follow on the 7...

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS4ILXe4Ja ks3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf4PYjg4bABD2bbUA4kYjg4kCVI8kA Af6kTTdzc@

BRKNRUN
08-13-2008, 02:18 PM
Did You Ever Scratch On The Cue Ball. ???
Did You Know How To Never Scratch On The Cue Ball. ???

HAL HOULE

Yes I have scratched the CB before..

No, I don't know how to never scratch on the cue balll.


I am curious of how this can be done....or in this case never done.

dfweyer
08-14-2008, 08:50 AM
My effort....

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasm1ECUh2FXPb4GABD1HUAS4ILXe4Ja ks3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf4PWOY4bABD2bdpD4kWOY4kBwF3kF OS@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3Dasn1ECUh2FXPb2GdpD1HUAS4ILXe4J aks3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf3PFOS3Xasn3XbSw3kFOS3kasV3k Meg@4ARRn4BMTy4CBdN3DbSw1ECUh2FXPb2GdpD1HUAS4ILXe4 Jaks3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf3PMeh4WBdN4WXhB4Wcpt4eaks4 ecgm3eCIT3kMeh3kBEO3kGrl3kbIn3kJAo@4ARRn4BMTy4Ccpt 3DbSw1ECUh2FXPb2GdpD1HUAS4ILXe3JCIT3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL 1OMcf3PJAo4URRn4Udvs3kJAo4kQsX4kbfy4kJQL@4Advs4BMT y4Ccpt3DbSw1ECUh2FXPb2GdpD1HUAS4ILXe3JCIT3KRXU2LOw o1NKHL1OMcf4PJQL4VMTy4VdWp4kJQL4kKok3kEWk3kXuD@4Ad vs4BdWp4Ccpt3DbSw1ECUh2FXXc2GdpD1HUAS4ILXe3JCIT3KR XU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf3PXuD2aXXc2acYu3kXuD2kWaN2kQWl2kG hm@4Advs4BdWp4Ccpt3DbSw1ECUh2FcYu2GdpD1HUAS4ILXe3J CIT3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf2PGhm1YCUh4YcQu2kGhm1kBfv2k AJA@4Advs4BdWp4Ccpt3DbSw4EcQu2FcYu2GdpD1HUAS4ILXe3 JCIT3KRXU2LOwo1NKHL1OMcf2PAJA1cUAS1cenA2kAJA1kRvY@