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View Full Version : what happened to Japan's pool scene?


smashmouth
08-12-2008, 05:08 AM
they produced world champions in the 90's and I thought they were on the verge of something big

what happened?

mullyman
08-12-2008, 05:21 AM
Japanese people go through booms like nothing you've ever seen before. After The Color of Money pool halls were popping out of the woodwork and you'd see business men walking down the street carrying cue cases with Szamboti's and Bushka's etc.... and they couldn't even make a ball. It was the "IN THING" to play pool so EVERYONE did it. Even if you didn't do it it was cool to act like you did so that's why people had cues. That boom went out years ago. What you saw in the early to mid 90's were the left over people that actually learned to play and kept with it. Back in the early 90's there were always new people coming into the pool hall. Nowadays.....we don't have many younger players around.

Right now we're catching the tail end of the soft darts boom. Everyone and their mother plays soft darts. They have the shirts, the dart cases that hang off the belt, the soft tip cases etc... etc....

No offense intended, but when something hits here it's insane. Everyone has to do it and you have to have the uniform and the accessories. If you go to a tennis court wearing sweats and a t-shirt they'll look at you like you're an idiot. Tennis can only be played in official tennis clothes. Gotta have the uniform.

You should see some of these old guys riding Harley's with their brand new leathers. It's almost surreal. It's like they have the chaps, the boots, the Harley t-shirt, the bandanna, the vest etc... and everything is worn perfectly. It literally looks like they saw a catalog of leathers and dressed like that. It doesn't look natural. Really hard to explain but if you saw it you'd understand. Everything is perfect.
MULLY
and clean too

CocoboloCowboy
08-12-2008, 05:25 AM
Japanese people go through booms like nothing you've ever seen before. After The Color of Money pool halls were popping out of the woodwork and you'd see business men walking down the street carrying cue cases with Szamboti's and Bushka's etc.... and they could even make a ball. It was the "IN THING" to play pool so EVERYONE did it. That boom went out years ago. What you saw in the early to mid 90's were the left over people that actually learned to play and kept with it. Back in the early 90's there were always new people coming into the pool hall. Nowadays.....we don't have many younger players around.

Right now we're catching the tail end of the soft darts boom. Everyone and their mother plays soft darts. They have the shirts, the dart cases that hang off the belt, the soft tip cases etc... etc....

No offense intended, but when something hits here EVERYONE does it. When it's done only a few continue. Pool is not the thing right now.
MULLY

That is the store I have been told by several Cuemakers who use to send everything to JAPAN as it was PRE SOLD. :wink:

mullyman
08-12-2008, 05:29 AM
Oh yeah, I'm sure during the late 80's early 90's the majority of cues a maker brought to an expo were sold before the doors even opened. Cosmo Japan was terrible for doing that. They'd go in and buy everything up before anyone had a chance.
MULLY

CocoboloCowboy
08-12-2008, 05:29 AM
??? For Mully:

What does it cost you per hr. U.S. Equalivent to play in Japan... Youare in a Big City, or out in the Country.

CocoboloCowboy
08-12-2008, 05:33 AM
Oh yeah, I'm sure during the late 80's early 90's the majority of cues a maker brought to an expo were sold before the doors even opened. Cosmo Japan was terrible for doing that. They'd go in and buy everything up before anyone had a chance.
MULLY




About 15 years ago my buddy had arranged a meeting to buy a Lambros at the BCA Show from Mike.

Mike show up with this short Japanese lady on his heal with a Case of 24 Cues. My buddy was given pick of the 24, as Lambros honored his deal with John.

Apparently the lady was a buyer from Japan, and after John bought his Cue for 2K a REAL BEAUTY, and Hitter.

The Lady pulled out this WAD of 100's, and bought the other 23 Mike went home SOLD OUT.

mullyman
08-12-2008, 05:33 AM
I'm in Shizuoka. It's not a huge city like Tokyo but it's alright. I pay 6 bucks an hour, roughly. When I was in Tokyo a few months back with Tony I think the prices there were about the same. Most places have memberships and you get a discount. I think the counter price is 7 bucks for customers and 6 for members. 4.50 for ladies.
MULLY

CocoboloCowboy
08-12-2008, 05:34 AM
Thanks for you reply. What do you buds at the Local pool Hall think of your Justis Case?

mullyman
08-12-2008, 05:34 AM
About 15 years ago my buddy had arranged a meeting to buy a Lambros at the BCA Show from Mike.

Mike show up with this short Japanese lady on his heal with a Case of 24 Cues. My buddy was given pick of the 24, as Lambros honored his deal with John.

Apparently the lady was a buyer from Japan, and after John bought his Cue for 2K a REAL BEAUTY, and Hitter.

The Lady pulled out this WAD of 100's, and bought the other 23 Mike went home SOLD OUT.


Doesn't surprise me one bit. I went to the BCA expo in Vegas back in '99 and every cue we were interested in, name any maker that was there, was already sold to Cosmo Japan.
MULLY

mullyman
08-12-2008, 05:35 AM
Thanks for you reply. What do you buds at the Local pool Hall think of your Justis Case?


Unfortunately only like 3 or 4 people there know what a Justis is.
MULLY

Black-Balled
08-12-2008, 05:50 AM
How awesome is it that we have a Man in Japan?

I can sit at my desk in DC and get the scene summary from Japan. Friggin NIPPON!!

CocoboloCowboy
08-12-2008, 12:32 PM
Unfortunately only like 3 or 4 people there know what a Justis is.
MULLY

Think that is because old "Lucky" Pushed Whitten's hard during the Pool boom.

14.1player
08-12-2008, 02:09 PM
Mullyman:Who is the strongest player in Japan right now?

Kawabata? Oi?

None of them seem like world beaters, like Okumura or Takahashi in the early 90s... Do the Filipinos see it as easy money in the Japan tourneys? :)

okinawa77
08-12-2008, 02:49 PM
Mullyman:Who is the strongest player in Japan right now?

Kawabata? Oi?

None of them seem like world beaters, like Okumura or Takahashi in the early 90s... Do the Filipinos see it as easy money in the Japan tourneys? :)


The only Japan pro player that I know is Naoyuki Oi. From the few sightings of other japanese players on TV, I'd say Oi is stronger than them.
In race to 5, he didn't miss any shots. Only chance I had to shoot, was when nothing fell on the break....which is rare because he's got a powerful break.

14.1player
08-12-2008, 03:19 PM
Yep, only really seen them in action once before, and on the Guinness Asian 9 ball Tour.

I think in some ways playing & practising on perfect equipment with a perfect rack and guaranteed wing ball might not be ideal?

My 2 cents

Danktrees
08-12-2008, 03:24 PM
my japanese friend told me that generally speaking, everyone over there suck at pool. i suppose this is evident in the fact that he won the university championship or something. he explained it to me as a tournament where students from universities came from all over the country to compete. i dont have all the details as i didnt really care about it so i wasnt paying much attention while he explained it but i deduced that the level of competition must be weak if him and his partner were able to win the whole tourny. my friend isnt a bad player but there are many locals here in toronto that would absolutely destroy him...and i'm not even talking about johnny, jason, erik or mario. even when we play i beat him fairly often. he'll win more sets overall but im able to hang in there and im not even good.

i just think that if the level of competition is so weak over there, it's hard for them to produce a champion. i know shane kinda just practiced on his own and got really good but he went around gambling with good players as well. plus shane seems to be a rare case as players dont usually develop the way he did.

also, another thing my friend brought up was that when they're gambling, it's customary to lose on purpose to a pro/better player as a sign of respect. i remember laughing at him since that concept made no sense but thats what he said and i have no way to verify it. chances are if u're playing a better player u'll lose anyways but to lose willingly without putting up a fight is a weird concept.

from my conversations with him it seems people over there arent really educated about pool, this was something he told me himself so im not just making assumptions. for example, he bought an espiritu plain jane and a predator shaft for 1400 dollars. no disrespect to russ but i've seen the exact same cue on this forum for 200-250. the funniest thing was i got him to switch off the pred shaft about 2 weeks after i met him when i gave him a nice solid shaft to use. so i guess its hard to produce great players when there's a lack of knowledge about the game and little to no competition.

tjlmbklr
08-12-2008, 03:57 PM
Japanese people go through booms like nothing you've ever seen before. After The Color of Money pool halls were popping out of the woodwork and you'd see business men walking down the street carrying cue cases with Szamboti's and Bushka's etc.... and they couldn't even make a ball. It was the "IN THING" to play pool so EVERYONE did it. Even if you didn't do it it was cool to act like you did so that's why people had cues. That boom went out years ago. What you saw in the early to mid 90's were the left over people that actually learned to play and kept with it. Back in the early 90's there were always new people coming into the pool hall. Nowadays.....we don't have many younger players around.

Right now we're catching the tail end of the soft darts boom. Everyone and their mother plays soft darts. They have the shirts, the dart cases that hang off the belt, the soft tip cases etc... etc....

No offense intended, but when something hits here it's insane. Everyone has to do it and you have to have the uniform and the accessories. If you go to a tennis court wearing sweats and a t-shirt they'll look at you like you're an idiot. Tennis can only be played in official tennis clothes. Gotta have the uniform.

You should see some of these old guys riding Harley's with their brand new leathers. It's almost surreal. It's like they have the chaps, the boots, the Harley t-shirt, the bandanna, the vest etc... and everything is worn perfectly. It literally looks like they saw a catalog of leathers and dressed like that. It doesn't look natural. Really hard to explain but if you saw it you'd understand. Everything is perfect.
MULLY
and clean too


I am going have to have pictures of this. I am from Milwaukee the home of the Harley and I am sure that'll produce big laughs here. Especially since the 105th is coming up. The staple of all the "hard core" Harley bikers is no "Jap Crap". Please take no offense to this, but it's unfortunately true.

mullyman
08-12-2008, 09:06 PM
I am going have to have pictures of this. I am from Milwaukee the home of the Harley and I am sure that'll produce big laughs here. Especially since the 105th is coming up. The staple of all the "hard core" Harley bikers is no "Jap Crap". Please take no offense to this, but it's unfortunately true.


No offense taken. I wouldn't be caught dead on a rice burner.
MULLY

mullyman
08-12-2008, 09:13 PM
my japanese friend told me that generally speaking, everyone over there suck at pool. i suppose this is evident in the fact that he won the university championship or something. he explained it to me as a tournament where students from universities came from all over the country to compete. i dont have all the details as i didnt really care about it so i wasnt paying much attention while he explained it but i deduced that the level of competition must be weak if him and his partner were able to win the whole tourny. my friend isnt a bad player but there are many locals here in toronto that would absolutely destroy him...and i'm not even talking about johnny, jason, erik or mario. even when we play i beat him fairly often. he'll win more sets overall but im able to hang in there and im not even good.

i just think that if the level of competition is so weak over there, it's hard for them to produce a champion. i know shane kinda just practiced on his own and got really good but he went around gambling with good players as well. plus shane seems to be a rare case as players dont usually develop the way he did.

also, another thing my friend brought up was that when they're gambling, it's customary to lose on purpose to a pro/better player as a sign of respect. i remember laughing at him since that concept made no sense but thats what he said and i have no way to verify it. chances are if u're playing a better player u'll lose anyways but to lose willingly without putting up a fight is a weird concept.

from my conversations with him it seems people over there arent really educated about pool, this was something he told me himself so im not just making assumptions. for example, he bought an espiritu plain jane and a predator shaft for 1400 dollars. no disrespect to russ but i've seen the exact same cue on this forum for 200-250. the funniest thing was i got him to switch off the pred shaft about 2 weeks after i met him when i gave him a nice solid shaft to use. so i guess its hard to produce great players when there's a lack of knowledge about the game and little to no competition.


I would guess since you weren't really paying attention to what he was trying to say that there must have been some sort of communication gap that made you mistake one thing for another.

I've never heard of anyone losing to a better player on purpose as a sign of respect. I think what your friend was trying to say is that they don't mind losing to a better player because they can take it as paying for a lesson from a good player. But to lose on purpose, no, never heard that one, and I've been here IN the pool scene for close to 20 years.

As for cue prices, sorry, man, different country, different economy. It's not a lack of knowledge as much as it's a lack of ability to understand English and find things in America at a better price. Not to mention that if they did find it how are they supposed to communicate with the cue maker?

As for there not being any good players over here, grab your friends and come on over, I'll hook you up with some people that will send you home broke.
MULLY

mullyman
08-13-2008, 03:06 AM
Mullyman:Who is the strongest player in Japan right now?

Kawabata? Oi?

None of them seem like world beaters, like Okumura or Takahashi in the early 90s... Do the Filipinos see it as easy money in the Japan tourneys? :)


You know, I don't keep up with the Japanese pro circuit. I honestly couldn't tell you who is on top right now. I did hear that Okumura retired from pool and moved over to 3 cushion. There's going to be a pro tour stop here in my area in September. I've signed up to join the tournament. I guess I'll get the scoop then.
MULLY

JMS
08-13-2008, 03:48 AM
Back in March of 2000 I was fresh out of Bootcamp and further training from the Marines I was stationed in Camp Hansen, Okinawa Japan. After I got kicked out of every last Buy-me-drinky bar in Kinville I stumbled (literally) into a pool hall. I then started playing in the corner by myself. A few locals came up to me and wanted to play for something. So we ended up playing for $1000 yen and 3 fortune cookies. The little fella broke dry, I then put the house cue back on the wall and continued to run 3 racks of rotation with nothing but some chopsticks. It was a thing of beauty. My mind, body, and twig were in sync. I didn't even use chalk, only soy sauce when I had to but a lil something on the cue ball. Needless to say they quit And I became their mentor. I became a folk hero all over the island, they still know me as Sensei Kick Ass-san. I even put out some instructional material translated into Japanese so my guess is every aspiring pool player in Japan bought them and actually got even worse. So they all got worse because of me. True story and I'm sticking to it.

monchiwai
08-13-2008, 09:17 AM
I would guess since you weren't really paying attention to what he was trying to say that there must have been some sort of communication gap that made you mistake one thing for another.

As for there not being any good players over here, grab your friends and come on over, I'll hook you up with some people that will send you home broke.
MULLY

Totally agree with Mully on this.... i have been staying in Tokyo for almost 4 years now and i find that there are a lot of japs here who really kick a$$!!!

I mentioned before in another thread/forum, many of the local pool halls here have 1 or 2 super-tight-pockets tables (see my signature) and there are always A and SA level players running balls in these tables...

mullyman
08-13-2008, 10:05 AM
Totally agree with Mully on this.... i have been staying in Tokyo for almost 4 years now and i find that there are a lot of japs here who really kick a$$!!!

I mentioned before in another thread/forum, many of the local pool halls here have 1 or 2 super-tight-pockets tables (see my signature) and there are always A and SA level players running balls in these tables...

You're in Tokyo? Why haven't we hooked up to shoot some?

I guess you know the scene well too. There are some good players in Tokyo but down in Osaka, damn. I think the strongest players in the nation are in the Kansai area. We're about average here in Shizuoka.
MULLY

CocoboloCowboy
08-13-2008, 12:46 PM
Back in March of 2000 I was fresh out of Bootcamp and further training from the Marines I was stationed in Camp Hansen, Okinawa Japan. After I got kicked out of every last Buy-me-drinky bar in Kinville I stumbled (literally) into a pool hall. I then started playing in the corner by myself. A few locals came up to me and wanted to play for something. So we ended up playing for $1000 yen and 3 fortune cookies. The little fella broke dry, I then put the house cue back on the wall and continued to run 3 racks of rotation with nothing but some chopsticks. It was a thing of beauty. My mind, body, and twig were in sync. I didn't even use chalk, only soy sauce when I had to but a lil something on the cue ball. Needless to say they quit And I became their mentor. I became a folk hero all over the island, they still know me as Sensei Kick Ass-san. I even put out some instructional material translated into Japanese so my guess is every aspiring pool player in Japan bought them and actually got even worse. So they all got worse because of me. True story and I'm sticking to it.

Great Story.:wink:

JMS
08-13-2008, 01:03 PM
Great Story.:wink:

Thanks, I'm thinking about bringing my pool school back to Japan after a 7 year hiatus.

CocoboloCowboy
08-13-2008, 01:10 PM
I have a very good friend who was flight crew on lLamplighter in the Korean War, he shares some funny story about flying out of, living, and his crew owning a Brothel in Japan during the Korean War.

Apparently this Brothel change ownership when new Lamplighter Crews were sent to Japan. Apparently his crew live high on the hog you could say during their time in Japan.

CocoboloCowboy
08-13-2008, 01:11 PM
Thanks, I'm thinking about bringing my pool school back to Japan after a 7 year hiatus.

You should talk to Mully to see if that idea would fly, as Pool is out of Vogue in Japan now.:wink:

JMS
08-13-2008, 01:22 PM
Thats because they're waiting for Sensei Kick-Ass-San to return. If anyone has seen Full Metal Jacket, the guy that played the Drill Instructor retired in Japan in the late 70's- early 80's and had a brother in Okinawa.
I would open a pool tour and let Mully be my Tournament Director for the Samarai Pool Tour.

cycopath
08-13-2008, 02:03 PM
I mentioned before in another thread/forum, many of the local pool halls here have 1 or 2 super-tight-pockets tables (see my signature) ..

3.6 inch pockets?! You are a sick man. I was apprehensive at setting mine at 4.25 inches, but 3.6... that would be brutal!

poolplayer2093
08-13-2008, 02:17 PM
i was in japan like 6 years ago and i ran into some monster players. but from what i heard from friends a couple of the pool halls that used to be there had been closing

SCCues
08-13-2008, 03:39 PM
You know, I don't keep up with the Japanese pro circuit. I honestly couldn't tell you who is on top right now. I did hear that Okumura retired from pool and moved over to 3 cushion. There's going to be a pro tour stop here in my area in September. I've signed up to join the tournament. I guess I'll get the scoop then.
MULLY
The Japanese used to send a number of players to the US Open each year, but the last few years I haven't seen any Japanese. They even sent a TV crew one year to keep up with their top players. Okumura played Earl in the final the year Earl won his 5th US Open and I haven't seen the Japanese contingent since.

James

mullyman
08-13-2008, 03:45 PM
The Japanese used to send a number of players to the US Open each year, but the last few years I haven't seen any Japanese. They even sent a TV crew one year to keep up with their top players. Okumura played Earl in the final the year Earl won his 5th US Open and I haven't seen the Japanese contingent since.

James


Well, like I said, I don't really keep up with the pros over here but I do finger through the billiard magazine each month when it comes out. I know a couple of the younger players have been to the States recently in some tournaments. Not exactly sure which tournaments they are but I've seen photos.

I doubt you'll see many from now on though with oil prices the way they are. Not only will a ticket to the USA run you around a thousand dollars, depending on the season, there is now a 600 dollar oil surcharge tacked onto that. That oil surcharge is the exact reason why I'm not sitting in Cincinnati right now.
MULLY

monchiwai
08-13-2008, 07:17 PM
You're in Tokyo? Why haven't we hooked up to shoot some?

I guess you know the scene well too. There are some good players in Tokyo but down in Osaka, damn. I think the strongest players in the nation are in the Kansai area. We're about average here in Shizuoka.
MULLY

Yea... i think we should... if by any chance you come to tokyo (as i rarely go outside tokyo), do drop me a PM and we go shoot some pool together.... :D

Yes, i think Kansai area produces a lot of strong players...
Around tokyo, i believe Kanagawa prefecture is at the top...

Tokyo-dave
08-13-2008, 08:23 PM
Kasai produces the better players based on my experience. Many of them have learned by playing straight pool, and also they play a game they call "Japan" which is just like the "go-ku" game that I'm sure you're familliar with, only the 3, and 5 are also money balls. As far as action goes, unless you get into a game with a Filippino player, it's hard to find a game for anything more than around 2,000 yen. But in the Kanagawa area, B players will start at 5,000 yen.
Another interesting tidbit: Players from the Kasai area tend to favor Adam/Musashi while the players in the Kanto area overwhelmingly favor Mezz.
And, in my opinion, the top player in Japan has got to be Oi. He's the house pro in a small 6 table place about 20 minutes from where I lived, so I've been sent home early many many times by that kid. I literally watched him go from B player to world beater in about a 4 year period of time.
I still think that there are several Japanese players that play well enough to win majors, but traditionally the Japanese are big chokers in the larger events. If I'm correct, Mekari finished in the final 4 in least years US open? He's one of those guys that has been considered to be well past his peak years in Japan.
dave

mullyman
08-13-2008, 09:06 PM
Kasai produces the better players based on my experience. Many of them have learned by playing straight pool, and also they play a game they call "Japan" which is just like the "go-ku" game that I'm sure you're familliar with, only the 3, and 5 are also money balls. As far as action goes, unless you get into a game with a Filippino player, it's hard to find a game for anything more than around 2,000 yen. But in the Kanagawa area, B players will start at 5,000 yen.
Another interesting tidbit: Players from the Kasai area tend to favor Adam/Musashi while the players in the Kanto area overwhelmingly favor Mezz.
And, in my opinion, the top player in Japan has got to be Oi. He's the house pro in a small 6 table place about 20 minutes from where I lived, so I've been sent home early many many times by that kid. I literally watched him go from B player to world beater in about a 4 year period of time.
I still think that there are several Japanese players that play well enough to win majors, but traditionally the Japanese are big chokers in the larger events. If I'm correct, Mekari finished in the final 4 in least years US open? He's one of those guys that has been considered to be well past his peak years in Japan.
dave


You know, even after all these years "Japan" and "Go-Kyu" are games that I never really got into. For those of you reading this and not understand the games they're basically 9-ball ring games with money being paid on the 3,5,7 and 9 balls. 1x payment in the corners and 2x payment in the sides. Double that for the 9-ball. Break run out is double up on everything.

I just have never been able to get interested in that. There's always a game going on. I play sometimes but I really don't care for it. Playing 9-ball with 3,4, or 5 people really prevents you from finding any kind of regular pace. Irritates me.
MULLY

okinawa77
08-14-2008, 06:33 AM
Kasai produces the better players based on my experience. Many of them have learned by playing straight pool, and also they play a game they call "Japan" which is just like the "go-ku" game that I'm sure you're familliar with, only the 3, and 5 are also money balls. As far as action goes, unless you get into a game with a Filippino player, it's hard to find a game for anything more than around 2,000 yen. But in the Kanagawa area, B players will start at 5,000 yen.
Another interesting tidbit: Players from the Kasai area tend to favor Adam/Musashi while the players in the Kanto area overwhelmingly favor Mezz.
And, in my opinion, the top player in Japan has got to be Oi. He's the house pro in a small 6 table place about 20 minutes from where I lived, so I've been sent home early many many times by that kid. I literally watched him go from B player to world beater in about a 4 year period of time.
I still think that there are several Japanese players that play well enough to win majors, but traditionally the Japanese are big chokers in the larger events. If I'm correct, Mekari finished in the final 4 in least years US open? He's one of those guys that has been considered to be well past his peak years in Japan.
dave

Hi dave,

Thanks again for hooking me up with the Flannel Pool n Darts Bar.
They only have 4 tables now, but they are Pro Comp style tables. They have about 4 or 6 soft tip dart boards, now. And it's mostly darts. I met Oi. He's a real down to earth guy. The owner is cool, too. He plays pretty sporty.

Tokyo-dave
08-14-2008, 02:47 PM
Yeah Rob,
I'm glad that you got to meet "Oi kun." He is a really nice guy, and always willing to play anybody for anything. (he's also quite the lady killer). Where else in the world but Japan can you walk into a four table room, and be lucky enough to find a world class player house pro that's willing to play you cheap sets for as long as you want. And to Mullyman, I know how you feel about "go-kyu." It used to drive me apeshit to play the game, but I often found myself playing just because it seemed the only way to 'get involved' with the other players in the room, and was often time the only form of action. It drives me nuts, because it's a stricly offensive game, and nine times out of ten, I'd find myself standing at the table after waiting 10 minutes for my turn only to be left with nothing to look at!! And no reward for kicking safe either!!! But, on the other hand, I know an older guy that isn't much of a 9 ball tournament player, but the guy could break you in "go-kyu" every time. He was a master at ALWAYS kicking the 9 up into side pocket territory, and even if he didn't have the 9 in side pocket territory, he'd double and triple bank it into the side!! Drove me nuts and broke every time!! Rob, and Mullyman, now that I'm back in the states after spending the better part of my adult life in Japan (19 years) although I'm glad to be back home, from a pool point of view I really miss the place when it comes to playing pool. The table manners, the conditions, the prices, and the availability of exposure to world class talent was wonderful compared to where I am now. Would have been nice to have been able to hook up with you guys while I was there. Mullyman, good luck and have fun in the tour stop you'll be playing in. JPBA? JBC?
Have fun!
dave

mullyman
08-14-2008, 02:56 PM
It's a JPBA event.

I'm with you a billion percent on loving the game in this country. I've been here 17 years so far. The majority of my playing has been done here, I had only been playing seriously for about 5 years when I came over. I feel like I missed out on quite a lot of improvement from not being in the US, but just knowing the difference in manners etc... I wouldn't trade this for anything.
MULLY

CocoboloCowboy
08-14-2008, 02:57 PM
Great info Tokyo-dave.