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kevin s
08-12-2008, 10:29 PM
If you are interested in learning a great aiming system I would recommend investing in the time and money and schedule a trip to work with Stan. There has been a lot of talk about aiming systems here lately. I am so impressed with Pro One. I have seen several posts on center to edge, ghost ball , contact points etc. I am convinced for me , I had to see it in person. I feel like it would have taken me ages to learn what Stan showed me in a few hours! Thanks Stan for your dedication and for sharing your knowledge with me!

Kevin Smith

JMS
08-12-2008, 10:33 PM
Kevin S,

How much did it cost??? Is Pro One a modified center-to-edge??? And generally speaking do the system work on all cut shots?

kevin s
08-12-2008, 10:39 PM
Kevin S,

How much did it cost??? Is Pro One a modified center-to-edge??? And generally speaking do the system work on all cut shots?
The pricing of the lessons depend on several factors. I would contact Stan directly. There is more than one option. Here the link to his web site. www.justcueit.com The answer to your other questions ....yes

halhoule
08-12-2008, 10:41 PM
Any Aiming Systems Floating Around Lately.

Have Not Heard Anything.

av84fun
08-12-2008, 11:16 PM
Any Aiming Systems Floating Around Lately.

Have Not Heard Anything.

Nah...none of them work Hal...you know that! (-:

Couldn't call today. Will try tomorrow.

THANKS!

Jim

kevin s
08-13-2008, 07:54 AM
Any Aiming Systems Floating Around Lately.

Have Not Heard Anything.
Thats funny !:smile:

Koop
08-13-2008, 08:09 AM
Any Aiming Systems Floating Around Lately.

Have Not Heard Anything.

I'm making my own like you asked. Problem is, we'll both most likely be dead long before that occurs :D

stan shuffett
08-13-2008, 08:43 AM
You're welcome, Kevin.

Thank you, Hal!!!

46 more floating out there somewhere.

Stan

Colin Colenso
08-14-2008, 02:18 AM
You're welcome, Kevin.

Thank you, Hal!!!

46 more floating out there somewhere.

Stan
Stan,

When you are potting balls of different angles, say 10 degrees and 40 degrees to the right, how would you say that the position of the pivot (fulcrum on the bridge) relates to the line through CTE?

Is it right to say that on the 10 degree cut (close to full ball), that the pivot position must be on the left of the CTE line, and that it would be on the right of the CTE line for the 40 degree cut? Given that a perfect 1/2 ball hit should have the cue and pivot directly lined up with CTE line.

Colin

stan shuffett
08-14-2008, 04:00 AM
Colin, you are correct. For shot # 1 you're looking at a fulcrum of about 1/16 of an inch to the left of the CTE line. For shot # 2..a similar difference. I agree with your halfball statement. **Keep in mind there are safegards to the system. There is no exact bridge placement by design...it's by technique. The balls just happen to go center pocket if the execution is ideal. If not, there's a 1 and 1/8 of an inch of error room per each side of the ball entering a corner pocket, let's say from a big pocket angle.

There's the CTE sight line....99% of the deal......then you still have a 1% tweak after the pivot to adjust your aimline when you're down on the ball. If you can find center CB you're dead on with a friendly margin of error to boot.

I am off to a 2 day course with PRO ONE embedded. My student is a referral from Hal.

Thank you, Hal.

Stan

Colin Colenso
08-14-2008, 06:30 AM
Colin, you are correct. For shot # 1 you're looking at a fulcrum of about 1/16 of an inch to the left of the CTE line. For shot # 2..a similar difference. I agree with your halfball statement. **Keep in mind there are safegards to the system. There is no exact bridge placement by design...it's by technique. The balls just happen to go center pocket if the execution is ideal. If not, there's a 1 and 1/8 of an inch of error room per each side of the ball entering a corner pocket, let's say from a big pocket angle.

There's the CTE sight line....99% of the deal......then you still have a 1% tweak after the pivot to adjust your aimline when you're down on the ball. If you can find center CB you're dead on with a friendly margin of error to boot.

Stan
Thanks for clarifying Stan!

A little quick rough calculation has the aim line for a 10 degree hit about 2/3rd across half the OB. Or about 2/3 or approx 10/16 inch from the CTE line on the OB.

With a 12 inch bridge, a 1/16th inch offset would aim to this line at a distance of about 10 feet. So I'd guess the offset required for a 3 foot shot would be about 3/16ths. The 40 degree shot would be about 1/2 this amount (about 3/32 inch) to the other side of the CTE line. That's pretty rough math, but just pointing out that I think the offset is usually a bit larger than the 1/16th.

But as you say, the actual offset is a consequence of the technique you use, not the focus of it, but the system results in fulcrum offsets of varying amounts depending on cut angle and distance from CB to OB. Would you agree with that?

Now I wish we could grasp exactly how the technique achieves this aim line, other than by some degree of intuition.

Colin

JoeyA
08-14-2008, 09:07 AM
Any Aiming Systems Floating Around Lately.

Have Not Heard Anything.

You just have to live long enough. Eventually one will come floating by. I think Katrina floated one right by my door. "chuckles"
JoeyA

JoeyA
08-14-2008, 09:14 AM
Kevin,
As you groove Pro One, please share with us how it affects your game.
Thanks,
JoeyA

stan shuffett
08-14-2008, 10:18 AM
Colin,

My measurements fall @ 1/16 up to maybe 4/16

SCCues
08-14-2008, 10:25 AM
I would have given almost anything to have had the chance to take lessons from someone like Stan when I was starting out playing pool. When I started we didn't have videos, descent books, or anybody who wanted to help you learn. The good players back then were more concerned with separating you from your money!

I wish I could work out something to get some lessons. I've never had a lesson in my life and most of what I know I've picked up on my own from watching and asking questions when someone was willing to give a little help.

I've learned the game of 9 ball from watching Accu-stats videos and listening to the pros give their view on what the player should or will do in the different situations.

One thing that held me back in my progress was the lack of an aiming system for many years. I finally picked up a system from a friend of mine and it works pretty good on most shots, but there are still shots that i'm not comfortable with as far as how I should hit it.

James

LAMas
08-14-2008, 12:42 PM
Thanks for clarifying Stan!

A little quick rough calculation has the aim line for a 10 degree hit about 2/3rd across half the OB. Or about 2/3 or approx 10/16 inch from the CTE line on the OB.

With a 12 inch bridge, a 1/16th inch offset would aim to this line at a distance of about 10 feet. So I'd guess the offset required for a 3 foot shot would be about 3/16ths. The 40 degree shot would be about 1/2 this amount (about 3/32 inch) to the other side of the CTE line. That's pretty rough math, but just pointing out that I think the offset is usually a bit larger than the 1/16th.

But as you say, the actual offset is a consequence of the technique you use, not the focus of it, but the system results in fulcrum offsets of varying amounts depending on cut angle and distance from CB to OB. Would you agree with that?

Now I wish we could grasp exactly how the technique achieves this aim line, other than by some degree of intuition.

Colin

Stan gave the Rosetta Stone in that there are different offsets from the CTE.

Imperically, there is a different offset for a given angle at a given distance (between the OB and CB) and other offsets for different angles at different distances....

How it can work:

On Acad I have drawn what I believe to be the tenets of CTE - shift - pivot - hit.

With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 1 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .50" (~13mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .50" to the left = 50 degrees.

With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 2 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .20" (~5mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .20" to the left = 50 degrees.

With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 8 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .05" (~1.25mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .05" to the left = 50 degrees.

I though an too old to memorize all of the offsets. - good luck all.

Colin Colenso
08-14-2008, 02:20 PM
Stan gave the Rosetta Stone in that there are different offsets from the CTE.

Imperically, there is a different offset for a given angle at a given distance (between the OB and CB) and other offsets for different angles at different distances....

How it can work:

On Acad I have drawn what I believe to be the tenets of CTE - shift - pivot - hit.

With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 1 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .50" (~13mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .50" to the left = 50 degrees.

With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 2 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .20" (~5mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .20" to the left = 50 degrees.

With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 8 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .05" (~1.25mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .05" to the left = 50 degrees.

I though an too old to memorize all of the offsets. - good luck all.
True, it is a kind of Rosetta Stone. Hence I've been hoping it would be aknowledged by an authority and hopefully accepted as part of the undertsanding of the implementation of the system.

Hopefully it puts to bed the canard that a half ball hit (pure, not just CTE as a reference line) can only be hit to a pocket at approximately 30 degrees, + or - a couple of inches. Not for shots 22 to 40 degrees.

Anyway, nice calculations LAMas, though unfortunately I like my bridge at around 14 inches ;-)

I don't think it is worth remembering these offsets, though I do wonder how well players can learn to see them somewhat intuitively after using this system for quite a while.

Perhaps just like players learn to intuitively grasp the aim offset when referencing the OB contact point, they could also learn to see the required aim line relative to the CTE line, and this pretty much directs their bridge to the required offset.

Colin

stan shuffett
08-14-2008, 04:33 PM
Colin,
I do not place my bridge hand down on a dot every time I shoot. There's no conscious effort to do so. What I gave you was a range of offsets of the v in my bridge away from the CTE line whether it be right or left. I am almost always at about 2/16" away. I can demonstrate this over and over, left or right of the CTE line. This 2/16” represents the shots available @ my bridge distance without adjustments.

PRO ONE is not a perfect system but it's the best aiming system I have ever used. I never shoot a shot without it. With any other system I’ve ever used I was hot and cold. Many times I felt as though I was guessing and then went to instinct entirely. With PRO ONE I use it for every shot, everyday, all day long. That's huge! It's not going to change. It's just going to keep getting easier.

The fact that Landon uses this system for every shot is a strong indicator to me of its strength. Imagine that, a 14 year old staying with the same aiming process for every shot. He doesn’t do it for my PR.

Stan

cookie man
08-15-2008, 10:49 AM
The fact that Landon uses this system for every shot is a strong indicator to me of its strength. Imagine that, a 14 year old staying with the same aiming process for every shot. He doesn’t do it for my PR.


This is testimony enough for me.

jongreve
08-15-2008, 12:18 PM
Kevin S,

How much did it cost??? Is Pro One a modified center-to-edge??? And generally speaking do the system work on all cut shots?


Generally speaking it works every time on every shot, generally.


<disclaimer: I know nothing about the system, just could not resist pointing out the contradictory sentence>

PKM
08-15-2008, 01:09 PM
Hopefully it puts to bed the canard that a half ball hit (pure, not just CTE as a reference line) can only be hit to a pocket at approximately 30 degrees, + or - a couple of inches. Not for shots 22 to 40 degrees.

You mean the canard that a half-ball hit can make shots 22-40 degrees, right? As I understand it, people are claiming this for SAM. This is off topic, but does anyone wish to defend this?

randyg
08-15-2008, 03:52 PM
You mean the canard that a half-ball hit can make shots 22-40 degrees, right? As I understand it, people are claiming this for SAM. This is off topic, but does anyone wish to defend this?


Good Lord, let it rest. Unless you have been to school, don't quote S.A.M. as if you have been taught it. Thanks.....SPF=randyg

PKM
08-15-2008, 04:17 PM
Good Lord, let it rest. Unless you have been to school, don't quote S.A.M. as if you have been taught it. Thanks.....SPF=randyg

Is this not a legitimate topic of discussion on a pool forum? Stan Shuffet was willing to discuss his system, and it sounds much more complicated than SAM. And incidentally, I don't think it will have any detrimental effect on attracting potential students, likely the opposite.

Can a half-ball hit (center to edge) make shots ranging from 22-37 degrees without a pivot or not? That's not even really a system question, just a pool question.