PDA

View Full Version : Where did the $$$$$ go in Florida?


sizl
03-09-2005, 03:54 PM
I was just reading this http://azbilliards.com/2000storya.cfm?storynum=2542
story on AZ and something just did not click with me.
They had 82 players and first place only paid $780 and 13th-16th paid $60. :eek:

I do not know the entry fee or any of the details, but it does not seem to add up. I am not trying to speculate, and I am not being negative, I am just trying to understand.

I know I will probably take some heat for this but..................................
Where did the $$$$$ go?

amatuer
03-09-2005, 04:53 PM
I was just reading this http://azbilliards.com/2000storya.cfm?storynum=2542
story on AZ and something just did not click with me.
They had 82 players and first place only paid $780 and 13th-16th paid $60. :eek:

I do not know the entry fee or any of the details, but it does not seem to add up. I am not trying to speculate, and I am not being negative, I am just trying to understand.

I know I will probably take some heat for this but..................................
Where did the $$$$$ go?

$10.00 goes to the house for green fees.

vapoolplayer
03-09-2005, 04:58 PM
I was just reading this http://azbilliards.com/2000storya.cfm?storynum=2542
story on AZ and something just did not click with me.
They had 82 players and first place only paid $780 and 13th-16th paid $60. :eek:

I do not know the entry fee or any of the details, but it does not seem to add up. I am not trying to speculate, and I am not being negative, I am just trying to understand.

I know I will probably take some heat for this but..................................
Where did the $$$$$ go?

its an amatuer tourney with 82 players , 40 dollar entry fee, 500 added.........10 to the house, plus the tourney director's cut. there isn't much money to start with.

basically you only have 20 bucks per person in the prize fund........so you only have a total of............2140 give or take some.

780 for first place is actually good money for the FURY tour.

VAP

vapoolplayer
03-09-2005, 05:01 PM
i might take some heat for this ( i don't mean to offend, and i don't mean this directly to sizl, goes for everyone) and i know this is a public forum..............but...........before you post something negative towards a tourney or tour or anyone for that matter, perhaps you could email mike, or the tourney director..........even if someone gives you the answer on here, it still is negative input, especially when money is involved.

also, you will get a more direct, and truthful answer.


thanks

VAP

sizl
03-09-2005, 05:13 PM
i might take some heat for this ( i don't mean to offend, and i don't mean this directly to sizl, goes for everyone) and i know this is a public forum..............but...........before you post something negative towards a tourney or tour or anyone for that matter, perhaps you could email mike, or the tourney director..........even if someone gives you the answer on here, it still is negative input, especially when money is involved.

also, you will get a more direct, and truthful answer.


thanks

VAP




I will make note of that :D



NOTED :D

macguy
03-09-2005, 06:00 PM
its an amatuer tourney with 82 players , 40 dollar entry fee, 500 added.........10 to the house, plus the tourney director's cut. there isn't much money to start with.

basically you only have 20 bucks per person in the prize fund........so you only have a total of............2140 give or take some.

780 for first place is actually good money for the FURY tour.

VAP

I think it was more then that, like $2780. I like to see at least 100% pay back and even some added but that was not bad for a local tournament.

frankncali
03-09-2005, 06:21 PM
its an amatuer tourney with 82 players , 40 dollar entry fee, 500 added.........10 to the house, plus the tourney director's cut. there isn't much money to start with.

basically you only have 20 bucks per person in the prize fund........so you only have a total of............2140 give or take some.

780 for first place is actually good money for the FURY tour.

VAP


So the house basically adds nothing. They had 82 players paying them 10 bucks each so instead they advertised adding $500 but in reality they brought
in $320.
Why is it that pool rooms see the need for greens fees. OR why any tournament feels the need for them?
I was traveling once and played a weekly event and it had a 13 dollar entry.
I thought it was odd so I asked later in the night why $13. The guy told
me that the house charged 3 per man to use the tables. I said okay and said
that they must not add anything into the pot. He said NO THEY ADD 2 bucks per man. I scratched my head.

As for Sizl and myself, I think we must have been spoiled. We played at 2-3 events per year with $5000 added and no green fee with usually $50 entry.

Amazing how those events were always full.

One day I will own a room and I might change then but until then I will never see the need for a green fee.

onepocketchump
03-09-2005, 06:30 PM
The entry fee is $40 per player. Of that $10 goes to the house up to $500 and $10 goes to the tournament director up to $500. $500 is added by the room.

So, with 82 players the prize fund was $2280 + $500 for a total of $2780. 100% of that was paid out. Fury Cues donated $500 in cues and product to the room and Sterling Gaming donated a $400 Sierra Cue for the raffle.

Being the title sponsor of the Fury Tour, we at Sterling are very pleased with the feedback we get from players and room owners about the tour. Since our name is associated with it we welcome any and all feedback.

Thank you.

John Barton - Minister of Propaganda. :-) Sterling Gaming

sizl
03-09-2005, 06:37 PM
So the house basically adds nothing. They had 82 players paying them 10 bucks each so instead they advertised adding $500 but in reality they brought
in $320.
Why is it that pool rooms see the need for greens fees. OR why any tournament feels the need for them?
I was traveling once and played a weekly event and it had a 13 dollar entry.
I thought it was odd so I asked later in the night why $13. The guy told
me that the house charged 3 per man to use the tables. I said okay and said
that they must not add anything into the pot. He said NO THEY ADD 2 bucks per man. I scratched my head.

As for Sizl and myself, I think we must have been spoiled. We played at 2-3 events per year with $5000 added and no green fee with usually $50 entry.

Amazing how those events were always full.

One day I will own a room and I might change then but until then I will never see the need for a green fee.





Exactly! :cool:

jjinfla
03-09-2005, 06:49 PM
Well there is the point about operating legally within the statutes of the law. Someone once told me that for an owner to legally run a tournament they must add to the payout. So they charge $7 for the tournament, $2 of which is greens fees. Then they turn around and add the $2 to the prize fund, and sometimes a bit more, and they are operating legally.

I know a few guys who compete in the Fury Tour (Kingsbay) and I don't hear them complaining about the fees or the payouts. It must be a well run, popular tour to draw 82 players. And then I believe there are special prizes awarded at the end of the season so they have to have a kitty for that.

Jake

onepocketchump
03-09-2005, 06:58 PM
I am on the fence about green fees. As a player I would like to see the room donate the table time to the tournament. As a former room owner I know that several things happen when you have a two day tournament. One is that you lose revenue from table rentals as the tables are out of play for the majority of the day. Two is that the tables that are used get more "tough" play and wear than with normal customers.

So, I can see where green fees are acceptable. People seem to line up to play in bar table events where they have to jack money in for every game. I personally favor starting the table time when the match starts and having the loser pay it. The most any player would pay is two match's worth of time and whoever goes all the way though with no losses doesn't have to pay. Put a cap on the per match fee and then the room gets their money and the players don't get hurt.

Then the math could be easier. What goes in gets paid out.

John

frankncali
03-09-2005, 07:03 PM
Smorg
I never once *****ed about Planet 9-Ball and from what you are saying
about their treatment of players I would not.
They IMO are doing what a good room should do. I would spend my $$$ there instead of another place. I wish P-9balls owner would open a west coast room near me.





The tournament being discussed was held at Planet 9-Ball and I don't have the particulars, but Planet 9-Ball is a VERY friendly tournament room. They host BCA, VNEA, USPPA and APA tournaments, monthly tournaments, the Florida Men's Tour, The Patriot Cup, Pro Qualifiers, the U.S.Open Wheelchair tournament, tournaments for the orphans, tournaments to send local youngsters to Nationals, tournaments for hurricane victims, the recent flood and others whose names escape me at the moment. In almost all instances they Add money and Do Not charge a 'green fee'. I don't know how much TD Rick Rogers received or whether or not a 'green fee' was part of the package for hosting the King's Bay Amateur event, but I'll try to find out. I suggest that anyone that doesn't approve of Planet 9-Ball's procedures should stay the hell away (and quit *****ing about a room room that bends over backwards for it's players & tournaments)... sheesh !

sizl
03-09-2005, 07:12 PM
The tournament being discussed was held at Planet 9-Ball and I don't have the particulars, but Planet 9-Ball is a VERY friendly tournament room. They host BCA, VNEA, USPPA and APA tournaments, monthly tournaments, the Florida Men's Tour, The Patriot Cup, Pro Qualifiers, the U.S.Open Wheelchair tournament, tournaments for the orphans, tournaments to send local youngsters to Nationals, tournaments for hurricane victims, the recent flood and others whose names escape me at the moment. In almost all instances they Add money and Do Not charge a 'green fee'. I don't know how much TD Rick Rogers received or whether or not a 'green fee' was part of the package for hosting the King's Bay Amateur event, but I'll try to find out. I suggest that anyone that doesn't approve of Planet 9-Ball's procedures should stay the hell away (and quit *****ing about a room room that bends over backwards for it's players & tournaments)... sheesh !



Doug, I personally was not directing anything toward Planet 9-Ball. I have heard nothing but good things about the place and the owner. I was just wanting to get the facts, thats all. And I was definitely not *****ing :eek:

frankncali
03-09-2005, 07:14 PM
I am on the fence about green fees. As a player I would like to see the room donate the table time to the tournament. As a former room owner I know that several things happen when you have a two day tournament. One is that you lose revenue from table rentals as the tables are out of play for the majority of the day. Two is that the tables that are used get more "tough" play and wear than with normal customers.

So, I can see where green fees are acceptable. People seem to line up to play in bar table events where they have to jack money in for every game. I personally favor starting the table time when the match starts and having the loser pay it. The most any player would pay is two match's worth of time and whoever goes all the way though with no losses doesn't have to pay. Put a cap on the per match fee and then the room gets their money and the players don't get hurt.

Then the math could be easier. What goes in gets paid out.

John


In the few 3cushion tournatments I ahve been in the table time was handled
by the loser. I was not too much in favor of that but its reasonable table time. My problem was that I was still learning 3c and lost all the time. With
only the loser paying the better player there again comes out on top.
I am a little bit different in thinking that tournament money should be spread out and handicapped events should be made where lower skill level players
can play and do well.
The way I look at it is that if a room gets 20-32 players for a weekly tournament that would not have been there then they have gained customers even if its for that night. Having cars in the ot and people in the place is very important to the business. Hopefully some of those 20-32 players would come back another night.
I ran a tournament here last year for a few months and talked the owner in the giving away some bar buck type prizes. Small ones like $10 or even a couple ones for a free pitcher of beer. The catch was it could not be used that same day. We tracked the amount spent by the person when using the $$$ and they always spent more and even tipped better. Before seeing this firsthand he said he did not see where giving something away could make him money. Afterwards he had no problem. Might not be the same in all places.

Running a pool room is no easy chore thats for sure.

Jack Flanagan
03-09-2005, 07:26 PM
you lose revenue from table rentals as the tables are out of play for the majority of the day. Two is that the tables that are used get more "tough" play and wear than with normal customers.
John

,,,plus, the water, lights, gas, and employees have to be paid,,,all this plus the lost table revenue makes it not worth it for all except the affluent pool rooms,,,,IMHO, 'cause I'm not the affluent room owner......

Teacherman
03-09-2005, 11:55 PM
...One day I will own a room and I might change then but until then I will never see the need for a green fee.

I give you 3 months. :D

KBP
03-10-2005, 05:01 AM
The tournament being discussed was held at Planet 9-Ball and I don't have the particulars, but Planet 9-Ball is a VERY friendly tournament room. They host BCA, VNEA, USPPA and APA tournaments, monthly tournaments, the Florida Men's Tour, The Patriot Cup, Pro Qualifiers, the U.S.Open Wheelchair tournament, tournaments for the orphans, tournaments to send local youngsters to Nationals, tournaments for hurricane victims, the recent flood and others whose names escape me at the moment. In almost all instances they Add money and Do Not charge a 'green fee'. I don't know how much TD Rick Rogers received or whether or not a 'green fee' was part of the package for hosting the King's Bay Amateur event, but I'll try to find out. I suggest that anyone that doesn't approve of Planet 9-Ball's procedures should stay the hell away (and quit *****ing about a room room that bends over backwards for it's players & tournaments)... sheesh !


To clear a few things up. Most rooms don't want to put any money out so we, Kings Bay Promotions created a system that gets us into the rooms, therefore the green fees. Most rooms won't pay the TD either so again we had to created a system for that. We are trying to keep a good venue for amateur players to play. The house gets $10 green fees up to the added monies and the same goes for the TD. Anything over the added monies stays in the prize fund. These fees are part of the package for hosting a Kings Bay Amateur event. If I could get it another way and get more money added I would but the biggest problem I have is the room does not want any money coming out of their pocket. I use to own a pool room myself and I did it different but it just doesn't always work the way we want it too. Believe me I have tried. I am looking for sponsors everyday to add money and have even hired a sports marketing company to help me. I just want to provide a good venue for amateur players to play. Something between league play and open events. I don't like to dissappoint anybody and I am out there trying reall hard with this. I hope this answers some of the questions

KBP
03-10-2005, 05:10 AM
Well there is the point about operating legally within the statutes of the law. Someone once told me that for an owner to legally run a tournament they must add to the payout. So they charge $7 for the tournament, $2 of which is greens fees. Then they turn around and add the $2 to the prize fund, and sometimes a bit more, and they are operating legally.

I know a few guys who compete in the Fury Tour (Kingsbay) and I don't hear them complaining about the fees or the payouts. It must be a well run, popular tour to draw 82 players. And then I believe there are special prizes awarded at the end of the season so they have to have a kitty for that.

Jake

Yes there are prizes at the end of the season. Sterling Gaming, our title sponsor with the Fury cues makes sure that top 8 points leaders get merchandise. I, the tour, take $10 out of the $40 membership money and put in a prize fund per division and give it to the top 8 points places. We do try to run a well run event. 82 players is our top for this season. We have had as many as 91 in seasons before. On the average in Florida we get 60 plus players at each event and there were a total of 23 events for this year.
Kay

Mike Templeton
03-10-2005, 06:29 AM
I, the tour, take $10 out of the $40 membership money and put in a prize fund per division and give it to the top 8 points places.
Kay,

I was thinking about coming to Mr Cues in Atlanta next weekend to play my first Fury event. According to this, my first tournament will cost me $80, and then it will be $40 for each tournament after that. Is that correct?

Mike

satman
03-10-2005, 07:02 AM
I give you 3 months. :D

I used to own a couple of small rooms and you can't run a tournament and keep your regular customers off the tables for a weekend and make nothing. Let's do this: the players can come and play in the tournament with no green fee, we'll give them a paper certificate for placing, and they get to entertain us and the regulars by displaying their skills. Not trying to start anything with anyone, but unless you have a Pro event that will attract customers who pay a door charge and buys food and drinks {revenue the room might not normally get} they need the green fee's to justify the event.
There are so many tournaments now compared to the early and mid 80's, that it is rediculous. We used to drive 1 hour to play in a small weekly tournament that payed $50 to $80 for first. And yes we had to put quarters in the tables. I agree there are some unscrupulous people that take advantage of the players, but if you don't feel you're be treated right, don't go back. I've been to bar table tournaments where it has cost me over $100 in the tables for the weekend, so I'll gladly pay the 10 or $20 green fee to play for the weekend. Just my opinion, best of luck to all of you. Sam

KBP
03-10-2005, 11:16 AM
Kay,

I was thinking about coming to Mr Cues in Atlanta next weekend to play my first Fury event. According to this, my first tournament will cost me $80, and then it will be $40 for each tournament after that. Is that correct?

Mike


Yes Mike, That is true. You are allowed to play in any of the other KBP Fury events with that $40 membership and $10 of that membership money goes into an end of the year prize fund for the top 8 points leaders. You can play in Ga and NC with that one membership. Mr. Cues in Atlanta has been cancelled due to a conflict with the dates and is being rescheduled in Aug. We are having an event in NC at MoJO's in Apex, NC. March 12. I sent out press releases and its posted on our web site about the schedule change. Glad you got in touch with me
Kay

KBP
03-10-2005, 11:25 AM
82 players is our top for this season. We have had as many as 91 in seasons before. On the average in Florida we get 60 plus players at each event and there were a total of 23 events for this year.
Kay


82 players at Planet 9-Ball is a great turnout. Which room held the previous title with 91 ? Congratulations on a successful Tour... and thanks.

I believe it was at Planet 9-Ball and we had 90 in Ocala one time too. We do have some good turn outs in Florida. Its great and I love doing it.I just wish I now had to time to play some too but no can do. Got to keep the tournaments and tour going and it takes a lot of time. Check out the website we have at either www.furytour.com or http://home.gate.net/~higgins3/. The fury site is still under constrution but it has a link that will take you to the web site I built (be nice it was my first and only site)
Kay

Mike Templeton
03-10-2005, 12:22 PM
Yes Mike, That is true. You are allowed to play in any of the other KBP Fury events with that $40 membership and $10 of that membership money goes into an end of the year prize fund for the top 8 points leaders. You can play in Ga and NC with that one membership. Mr. Cues in Atlanta has been cancelled due to a conflict with the dates and is being rescheduled in Aug. We are having an event in NC at MoJO's in Apex, NC. March 12. I sent out press releases and its posted on our web site about the schedule change. Glad you got in touch with me
Kay
Kay,

Thanks