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View Full Version : Simonis 860 on a 7' table?


CaptainJR
03-14-2005, 07:49 AM
I said Simonis 860 in the thread title just because everyone seems to relate it to a fast table but I'm really just talking about fast cloth made by whomever. I love fast cloth on a 9' table. I don't think that fast of cloth should be on a 7' table. You simply don't have the room. When I play on a 7' table that is that fast, to often you just can't hit the shot soft enough. Or you need to give the shot a little speed to get a certain action on the cue ball but you can't because if you do the cue ball is going the full length of the table instead of half way where you need it.

It just makes cense to me that you wouldn't want a 7' table to have as fast a cloth on it as a 9' table?

Secaucus Fats
03-14-2005, 08:20 AM
I said Simonis 860 in the thread title just because everyone seems to relate it to a fast table but I'm really just talking about fast cloth made by whomever. I love fast cloth on a 9' table. I don't think that fast of cloth should be on a 7' table. You simply don't have the room. When I play on a 7' table that is that fast, to often you just can't hit the shot soft enough. Or you need to give the shot a little speed to get a certain action on the cue ball but you can't because if you do the cue ball is going the full length of the table instead of half way where you need it.

It just makes cense to me that you wouldn't want a 7' table to have as fast a cloth on it as a 9' table?

IMO, Simonis 860 works just fine on a 7 foot table.

The local pub uses 860 on their 7 ft bar-boxes, and everyone likes it. To be sure 860 is fast but it's not THAT fast. I could see a problem if they used 760, that's a lot faster. BTW, the bar changes their 860 every six months, the table is cleaned with a hand vac, then with Quick-Clean, twice daily. The balls are newish Aramith Pros which are cleaned and polished every other day. All of this tends to make for speedier conditions but no one has complained, in fact all the best local bar-box players flock to the place.


I regularly play on, 9 ft Brunswicks Gold Crown III's and IV's (860) and then I play on the above mentioned tables. I can go straight from the pool hall to the pub and never experience any speed related issues.

DeadStrokeMan
03-14-2005, 08:24 AM
BTW, the bar changes their 860 every six months, the table is cleaned with a hand vac, then with Quick-Clean, twice daily. The balls are newish Aramith Pros which are cleaned and polished every other day.


You mean - after that must attention to the table and cloth - it *STILL* needs replacing at 6 months?

Or is this just radical overkill?

I'm thinkin' of 760 for my 9'er.

Secaucus Fats
03-14-2005, 08:53 AM
You mean - after that must attention to the table and cloth - it *STILL* needs replacing at 6 months?

Or is this just radical overkill?

I'm thinkin' of 760 for my 9'er.

The tables are in heavy use from open (7:00 AM) to close (2:00 AM) 7 days a week. In the morning it's all the old retired guys, and the local Conrail workers just getting off their shift. Every day around 3:00 PM to 7:30 there's a group of Hispanic guys who play last pocket 8 Ball non-stop. There's APA league on Monday, a non-handicapped league on Wednesday, Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon 9 Ball tournaments, the rest of the time the tables are kept busy with challenge matches. I'd be willing to bet that those tables see more use in 6 months than most tables will see in a year and a half.

Walt in VA
03-14-2005, 09:15 AM
IMO, Simonis 860 works just fine on a 7 foot table.

The local pub uses 860 on their 7 ft bar-boxes, and everyone likes it. To be sure 860 is fast but it's not THAT fast. I could see a problem if they used 760, that's a lot faster... All of this tends to make for speedier conditions but no one has complained, in fact all the best local bar-box players flock to the place.


We have two 7' Valleys in our local FOP lodge - get APA 8-ball league play 3 nights a week and pretty continuous challenge play Friday and Saturday nights. We switched from Mali to 860 about 4 years ago and found that it held up much better and all the players liked it. Every time we have recovered, the vote has been for 860 again.

Some of the local bars have cloth that is so slow and cruddy it's impossible to shoot any kind of touch shot or safety softly and still get a rail. Players who are used to that love to come to our place to play - good tables and no problems.

Walt in VA

The Hamster
03-14-2005, 09:32 AM
We have two 7' Valleys in our local FOP lodge - get APA 8-ball league play 3 nights a week and pretty continuous challenge play Friday and Saturday nights. We switched from Mali to 860 about 4 years ago and found that it held up much better and all the players liked it. Every time we have recovered, the vote has been for 860 again.


Yep. 860 is a good cloth for a bar-table. I personally prefer Granito Basalt which we have on several local tables (and my 8' home table) and it's my feeling that it wears better as well.

But the two are comparable - speed wise and playability anyway.

Jack Flanagan
03-14-2005, 10:30 AM
I have experimented with several brands over the years,,,Championship 'Tour Edition' has held up better than the others & it is fa-a--s-s-st on a 7' table,,,I like it !

Railbird
03-14-2005, 11:25 AM
IMO, Simonis 860 works just fine on a 7 foot table.

The local pub uses 860 on their 7 ft bar-boxes, and everyone likes it. To be sure 860 is fast but it's not THAT fast. I could see a problem if they used 760, that's a lot faster. BTW, the bar changes their 860 every six months, the table is cleaned with a hand vac, then with Quick-Clean, twice daily. The balls are newish Aramith Pros which are cleaned and polished every other day. All of this tends to make for speedier conditions but no one has complained, in fact all the best local bar-box players flock to the place.


I regularly play on, 9 ft Brunswicks Gold Crown III's and IV's (860) and then I play on the above mentioned tables. I can go straight from the pool hall to the pub and never experience any speed related issues.

Secaucus Fats,

Welcome to the forum, I have a question for you.
Which local pub are you referring to? I have played in quite a few pubs/bars in the New Jersey area over the years, and have never experienced one that had Simonis 860 cloth on their table, usually they have the cheapest cloth available, although some do use a somewhat better cloth.

Jim

larrynj1
03-14-2005, 11:57 AM
i have to agree with railbird on this one. this bar has to be located in a new jersey on another planet.

Secaucus Fats
03-14-2005, 02:56 PM
Secaucus Fats,

Welcome to the forum, I have a question for you.
Which local pub are you referring to? I have played in quite a few pubs/bars in the New Jersey area over the years, and have never experienced one that had Simonis 860 cloth on their table, usually they have the cheapest cloth available, although some do use a somewhat better cloth.

Jim

Address deleted

Secaucus Fats
03-14-2005, 03:06 PM
i have to agree with railbird on this one. this bar has to be located in a new jersey on another planet.

Larry,

See the above reply to Railbird.

Everything I wrote is on the up and up and there's more than a few guys at Herberts that can vouch for what I'm saying...i.e: Tony A., Paolo, Adolfo, Pat
(all of whom play at the Rover on a fairly regular basis.)

BTW, you're welcome to come play in our Sunday 9 Ball Tournament. BCA rules, cue ball fouls only, double elimination race to 3, $20 entry. House adds 50% of total entry fees collected. Payouts to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. No greens fees, no cut for TD (me). Oh, and no oversize cueball.

If you need more info, ask me Tuesday at Herbert's. :cool:

larrynj1
03-14-2005, 05:12 PM
i'll have to stop by after the hopkins showand see this place. tell me when elmer fails to show, and i'm in!!

mechanic/player
03-14-2005, 06:59 PM
i just installed 860 on my 7ft brunswick brookstone ,and shimmed the pockets to 4.5 in. , my game will improve alot being able to practice on this table 10 to 12 hrs a week.

MrLucky
03-14-2005, 07:22 PM
One of my Bar table joints just put Simonis on their two valleys and it was a huge improvement over the old rag type cover they had been using! :)

Jedi V Man
03-14-2005, 09:02 PM
I just took a break from installing Simonis 860 on my table in my basement. I am also shimming the pockets up to 4.5" as someone mentioned above.

It seems most all of the bar tables used in my area for league play have 760 on them. 760 is WAY to fast for a barbox, but ideal for a 9' table.

I have been using 860 for years and prefer it for barboxs. It takes english well, is a moderate fast speed and holds up very well for home use.

my .02

JimS
03-15-2005, 06:34 AM
I think 760 is too fast. It's not realistic in that the conditions present with 760 are not likely to be found in other places where a guy might play. 860 is the default cloth everywhere....860 or it's equivilant I mean. Championship mentioned above is a great alternative to 860; cheaper and plays almost exactly like 860.

mechanic/player
03-15-2005, 06:55 AM
i did my buddys old barbox hes had for yrs 2 weeks ago with 860,installed new cushions and shimmed the pockets from 4.5 in to 4 in,he wanted them smaller cause hes been shootin on it for yrs,u certainly hav to look and take longer to be sure of your shot.

CaptainJR
03-15-2005, 09:25 AM
I'd like to expound on what I was talking about a little. What I'm looking for at home on my 7' table is......... given the same shot, for example

START(
%Ag7V2%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%P[3U7%QZ1L4%U\4L0%Vf7C8%Ws2\3
%Xh4V6%Yf3U6%Z\8U6%[r6L0%\g8U2%]h3D2%^r4J9
)END


One ball is two dots length ways and one dot width from the corner. Cue ball one dot toward center from the side pocket. Dots on a 7' table are not as far apart as on a 9' table. So on a 7' table this would be a shorter shot.

To get the cue ball to position 'A', I want to use as close to the same stroke speed on my 7' table at home as I'd use on the 9' table at the pool hall. This would mean the 7' table would have to have slower cloth.

You see when I'm shooting on the 9'ers I have a tendency to come up short and I'm thinking it is because I practice on a 7' table so much.

Do you think this situation would make my practice at home more valid practice for the pool hall 9'ers?