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hustler
03-14-2005, 11:40 AM
I had this lay out. The match was hill/hill. Game is 8 ball and I am solids. The one and the eight are left. I thought a long time about this before making a decision. I'd be interested to hear what others think. Thanks. :confused:


START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9
)END

MFB
03-14-2005, 11:51 AM
[QUOTE=hustler]I had this lay out. The match was hill/hill. Game is 8 ball and I am solids. The one and the eight are left. I thought a long time about this before making a decision. I'd be interested to hear what others think. Thanks. :confused:


I think your only option is to play safe and attempt to put all three balls on the end rail. It would be difficult to judge how things would end up. Hopefully something like attached or better.

START(
%AD0M8%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HC8L4%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%PE3P6
)END

FLICKit
03-14-2005, 12:15 PM
[QUOTE=hustler]I had this lay out. The match was hill/hill. Game is 8 ball and I am solids. The one and the eight are left. I thought a long time about this before making a decision. I'd be interested to hear what others think. Thanks. :confused:


I think your only option is to play safe and attempt to put all three balls on the end rail. It would be difficult to judge how things would end up. Hopefully something like attached or better.

START(
%AD0M8%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HC8L4%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%PE3P6
)END

Wouldn't recommend trying that shot, unless you are very very very confident that you will be able to execute it perfectly. The slightest error on that approach will leave your opponent with an easy 8 ball shot for the victory. Since the cue ball is travelling about 2/3 the length of the table, chances for that lil error would be high unless you're absolutely confident of the playing conditions. Gotta keep in mind your risk/reward factor. The best approach could be influenced by the skill of your opponent. If they can bank very well, then that will reduce your options quite significantly. If they are unlikely to make a difficult cut or bank, then you may have more options available for ya.

1 option would be to send the 1 into the 8 and send it to the rail, while the cue ball heads towards the opposite rail. You may even be able to get the 1 ball to block the path between the cue and the 8.

START(
%AM5T7%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HL7E0%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%PO4Y4
)END

Hooked
03-14-2005, 12:20 PM
There are only two options, IMO. One being what MBF said and the other being this:

I prefer this option since it gives you a likely out on your next turn and just may hook him anyways.

START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9%UH6N6%Va2P1%Wr3P0%Xa2[0
%YD5R2%ZE8O9%[H0Z6%\D1S3%]S5O7%^H6[3%eC3a9%_G5D2%`C7G5%aG3M6
%b`1Z6%cN8J8%dH9D1
)END


You would be seperating the 8 and the cue ball, moving your ball to the middle of the table, maybe hook him, and with your ball in the middle of the table, he will have to take the bait and bank the 8 or sell out. That means you are in total control and are favored to get out.

Also, speed is in your favor. As long as you hit with, at least, a medium speed, you should still have the advantage. Hard is what is needed and it would be difficult to hit it so hard the cue ball comes back around so it is a pretty safe shot if you don't have great speed control (assuming this is a 9' and not a bar box).


That is what I would do

MFB
03-14-2005, 01:06 PM
There ya go Hustler. Three options for you. I only like mine for more than a few reasons....Ha-ha.

So what did you do? And what was the result of the game?

FLICKit
03-14-2005, 01:19 PM
There are only two options, IMO. One being what MBF said and the other being this:

I prefer this option since it gives you a likely out on your next turn and just may hook him anyways.

START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9%UH6N6%Va2P1%Wr3P0%Xa2[0
%YD5R2%ZE8O9%[H0Z6%\D1S3%]S5O7%^H6[3%eC3a9%_G5D2%`C7G5%aG3M6
%b`1Z6%cN8J8%dH9D1
)END


You would be seperating the 8 and the cue ball, moving your ball to the middle of the table, maybe hook him, and with your ball in the middle of the table, he will have to take the bait and bank the 8 or sell out. That means you are in total control and are favored to get out.

Also, speed is in your favor. As long as you hit with, at least, a medium speed, you should still have the advantage. Hard is what is needed and it would be difficult to hit it so hard the cue ball comes back around so it is a pretty safe shot if you don't have great speed control (assuming this is a 9' and not a bar box).


That is what I would do

With this approach, you gotta beware of scratching. Small margin of error, since you're trying to hit the foot rail between the 8 ball and the pocket. Go too far to the right and you scratch. Go too far to the left and you deflect off the 8-ball which could result in a scratch as well, or if not could easily wind up moving the 8-ball up table to an easily pocketable position. A scratch or an easy leave would result in giving the game away, which of course you never want to do. Should always make your opponent earn it at least. Goes back to that risk/reward factor that was mentioned earlier, and your confidence in ability to execute, especially with the added pressure of the match decider since it's hill/hill.

MFB
03-14-2005, 01:22 PM
With this approach, you gotta beware of scratching. Small margin of error, since you're trying to hit the foot rail between the 8 ball and the pocket. Go too far to the right and you scratch. Go too far to the left and you deflect off the 8-ball which could result in a scratch as well, or if not could easily wind up moving the 8-ball up table to an easily pocketable position. A scratch or an easy leave would result in giving the game away, which of course you never want to do. Should always make your opponent earn it at least. Goes back to that risk/reward factor that was mentioned earlier, and your confidence in ability to execute, especially with the added pressure of the match decider since it's hill/hill.


I agree. If this was played on bar table, it would be too tough of a shot. IMO

OldHasBeen
03-14-2005, 01:27 PM
I would kick the one from the bottom rail, trying to barely hit it. This may send the one, one rail back to the middle of the table and hopfully the cue ball would end up frozen on the back, end rail about in the middle. JMO

TY & GL

MrLucky
03-14-2005, 01:28 PM
There are only two options, IMO. One being what MBF said and the other being this:

I prefer this option since it gives you a likely out on your next turn and just may hook him anyways.

START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9%UH6N6%Va2P1%Wr3P0%Xa2[0
%YD5R2%ZE8O9%[H0Z6%\D1S3%]S5O7%^H6[3%eC3a9%_G5D2%`C7G5%aG3M6
%b`1Z6%cN8J8%dH9D1
)END


You would be seperating the 8 and the cue ball, moving your ball to the middle of the table, maybe hook him, and with your ball in the middle of the table, he will have to take the bait and bank the 8 or sell out. That means you are in total control and are favored to get out.

Also, speed is in your favor. As long as you hit with, at least, a medium speed, you should still have the advantage. Hard is what is needed and it would be difficult to hit it so hard the cue ball comes back around so it is a pretty safe shot if you don't have great speed control (assuming this is a 9' and not a bar box).


That is what I would do
:) this is also what I would do in the cited scenario!

Koop
03-14-2005, 01:28 PM
I had this lay out. The match was hill/hill. Game is 8 ball and I am solids. The one and the eight are left. I thought a long time about this before making a decision. I'd be interested to hear what others think. Thanks. :confused:


START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9
)END

Alright Andy. Spill the beans. What did you end up doing.
If you were playing at Renaissance on the 9-footers I think I would play a shot someone mentioned which is playing off the right side of the one and sending the cue back down table. Although bumping the left side and sending the 8 to the side rail is tempting too. Tough call buddy. Looking forward to hearing what you did.

Koop

Koop
03-14-2005, 01:32 PM
I would kick the one from the bottom rail, trying to barely hit it. This may send the one, one rail back to the middle of the table and hopfully the cue ball would end up frozen on the back, end rail about in the middle. JMO

TY & GL

OHB,

That is a great read as well. I think I would be afraid of hitting the cueball full and leaving it right there.
In this case, would you use any English or is it just a matter of hitting the one thin?

Thanks,
Dave

TATE
03-14-2005, 01:45 PM
I had this lay out. The match was hill/hill. Game is 8 ball and I am solids. The one and the eight are left. I thought a long time about this before making a decision. I'd be interested to hear what others think. Thanks. :confused:


START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9
)END


For sure I would just thin the left side of the one, leaving the cue ball down table and the one lightly brushing the 8, possibly hooking the opponent. I practice this kind of safety a lot.

START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9%Ud1Y8%VD8P7%WF5P6%Xa6P7
)END

Chris

MrLucky
03-14-2005, 02:04 PM
For sure I would just thin the left side of the one, leaving the cue ball down table and the one lightly brushing the 8, possibly hooking the opponent. I practice this kind of safety a lot.

START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9%Ud1Y8%VD8P7%WF5P6%Xa6P7
)END

Chris
Somehow I have a picture in my mind of "the hustler" with his laptop or blackberry in a match waiting patiently for our answer! :D

Egg McDogit
03-14-2005, 02:27 PM
hill-hill, I'd go for the cut. I'd also consider trying
to bank the 1 in front of the side pocket and freeze the
cb up on the 8. Both shots are high risk, high reward, but
in this case I'd rather do that than leave a cut/bank for
the other guy...just how I'd play it

Peace
-Egg

TheOne
03-14-2005, 02:50 PM
I think hooked got this right, stnadard shot in my book and little chance of hitting the 8 ball or scratch unless you totally mess it up.

Kicking into the one and getting the white on the end rail would be nice, but why when there's an easy safe with much more certainty? Playing the way hooked suggested allows you to put both the cb and the object ball exactly where you want it putting distance between cb and ob with a good chance of a snooker.

mjantti
03-14-2005, 02:54 PM
I had this lay out. The match was hill/hill. Game is 8 ball and I am solids. The one and the eight are left. I thought a long time about this before making a decision. I'd be interested to hear what others think. Thanks. :confused:


START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9
)END

START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9%UC9Q1%VE6O4%WH1N6%Xa5O7
%YG1D2%ZB9I2%[e4Z3%\G6C6%]r4S2%^f1Z7%eC0`8%_C6I7%`E3K3%aG0M9%bR2Z4%cL6W2%dC3 Q4
)END

Without looking at any other answers, I would have played safe. Because there is a low percentage long bank to pocket A without a good chance to hold for the 8, I would have cut the one in a way that the cueball misses the 8-ball and goes 3 rails to the opposite end of the table. Can't really control the 1-ball, but I'd say it could finish 3 rails near the B. The idea is to leave a long bank for your opponent but if you manage to keep the 1-ball away from the opposite short rail, your opponent shouldn't have any safety option and would have to go for a all-or-nothing long bank on the 8, which seems a lot less than 50/50 shot to me.

mjantti
03-14-2005, 03:09 PM
For sure I would just thin the left side of the one, leaving the cue ball down table and the one lightly brushing the 8, possibly hooking the opponent. I practice this kind of safety a lot.

START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9%Ud1Y8%VD8P7%WF5P6%Xa6P7
)END

Chris

I don't like this, because if you leave the 8-ball on from either side of the 1-ball, the opponent will have quite an easy way to make a countersafety thus forcing me to take a long bank on the 1-ball I could have taken in the first place (though unlikely).

First countersafety:
START(
%AD9M6%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HC9L3%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pe7X3%Q\1_1%UH8D2%VC4J2%WD3K3
%Xd4W6%YY6P9%ZI7C6
)END

The other:

START(
%AE4L9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HC8M2%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pe7X3%Q\1_1%Uh1Q7%VC3N2%WD7N6
%Xd4W6%]F0E4%^C3L1%eB8a2
)END

or even trying to make the 8-ball:

START(
%AE4L9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HC8M2%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pe7X3%Q\1_1%UC5N6%VC3N9%WD1O4
%Xd4W6%YY1P3%ZC9N0%]C7D8%^C7L6%eC6a6
)END

I always try to look a few shots ahead. Any safety won't do much in 8-ball.

fxskater
03-14-2005, 04:04 PM
I like Hooked and OldHasBeen's shots. I dont like trying to move all 3 balls at once. I might also play this shot:
START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9%QE5M0%WG9O3%Xa7O6%YG0O8
%ZD0O2
)END

leaving the cueball at A

if i know the table is straight, but it turns it into a safety battle where as hooked's shot gave you an aggressive edge. My suggestion is play better shape :.)

hustler
03-14-2005, 04:43 PM
Thank you all who replied.

I thought of some of the things that were mentioned.

Hooked advice- I was worried about scratching by drawing a little too much or grazing off the 8 into the corner. It would have been a tough stroke to execute considering the distance between the cue ball and the one. But I think this is a better choice than what I did.

Flick It advice - I thought if I tried your suggestion I would have to cut the one into the 8 ball too much to bump the 8 to the side rail. And by cutting the one too much I wouldnt be able to hold back the cue ball from going back toward the middle of the table. Tough angle to do this. I would really need to kill the cue ball. I would have been satisfied to leave a bank though.

MFB- I reluctantly tried what you suggested.

I knew it would be very tough to execute. I told myself whatever I do I need to leave the one and cue on the rail . Ended up hitting the one too full and missed too much of the 8 and sold out by leaving the easy 8 - a $400 sell out. Speed and hit on the one needed to be almost perfect to do this.

If I could do it again there is no doubt I kick at it from behind (as OHB suggested). I didnt think of that and I would have been more comfortable with that decision no matter the results.

Ive read some the other responses ...thanks again.

FLICKit
03-14-2005, 05:35 PM
Thank you all who replied.

I thought of some of the things that were mentioned.

Hooked advice- I was worried about scratching by drawing a little too much or grazing off the 8 into the corner. It would have been a tough stroke to execute considering the distance between the cue ball and the one. But I think this is a better choice than what I did.

Flick It advice - I thought if I tried your suggestion I would have to cut the one into the 8 ball too much to bump the 8 to the side rail. And by cutting the one too much I wouldnt be able to hold back the cue ball from going back toward the middle of the table. Tough angle to do this. I would really need to kill the cue ball. I would have been satisfied to leave a bank though.

MFB- I reluctantly tried what you suggested.

I knew it would be very tough to execute. I told myself whatever I do I need to leave the one and cue on the rail . Ended up hitting the one too full and missed too much of the 8 and sold out by leaving the easy 8 - a $400 sell out. Speed and hit on the one needed to be almost perfect to do this.

If I could do it again there is no doubt I kick at it from behind (as OHB suggested). I didnt think of that and I would have been more comfortable with that decision no matter the results.

Ive read some the other responses ...thanks again.


Kicking at it from behind would have difficulties as well. Based on your diagram, you'd have to go off the end rail, and spin it backwards a good bit in order to make contact with the 1. Not impossible, definitely do-able, but a bit more difficult than you might first think. You'd have to spin it enough to make contact, then you'd have to hit a rail afterwards, and you'd have a wild cue ball running around that could possibly even scratch. More sell out options that you do not want.

Me, personally, I could execute Hooked's shot with a little snip, and follow, so that it'd go to the right (topwards) first, and then the top spin would take it the end rail and back up table.

Or, I could use a little bottom right, to slide it all the way to the rail on the right, and then spin off towards the middle of the table.

START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9%QE6L8%_W1G8%`I6C3%aG5N1
)END

I could also use just draw, and hit to the right side of the 1 ball, just enough to miss the 8 ball, so that the cue ball would come up table towards the 3rd diamond. Maybe even call the side pocket on the right (top) at D, after the 1 ball travels 3 rails. Even if it didn't go in, it'd come into play as an obstacle.

START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9%QE6L8%Uq9P5%VW0Z8%WD3P7
%XE5O4%YV1Z6%ZC5Q7%[R1I0%\]4C8%]^7D4%^r6O8%_^2F9%`R8C5%aG3M9
)END

But that's not a shot that just anyone could execute, so I definitely wouldn't recommend it to everyone.

hustler
03-14-2005, 11:48 PM
Alright Andy. Spill the beans. What did you end up doing.
If you were playing at Renaissance on the 9-footers I think I would play a shot someone mentioned which is playing off the right side of the one and sending the cue back down table. Although bumping the left side and sending the 8 to the side rail is tempting too. Tough call buddy. Looking forward to hearing what you did.

Koop

Hey Koop,
It wasnt at Renaissance but I'll talk to you about it when I see you again. Just one of those shots that Ive been rattling my brain the last few days. I was kind of upset at myself for playing it the way I did becuase I feel I should've know better. The way I did it...the hit and speed had to be perfect. Ive got some good advice from the forum so Ill have to just set this up again and work it out so it doesn't happen again.

Koop
03-15-2005, 07:09 AM
Hey Koop,
It wasnt at Renaissance but I'll talk to you about it when I see you again. Just one of those shots that Ive been rattling my brain the last few days. I was kind of upset at myself for playing it the way I did becuase I feel I should've know better. The way I did it...the hit and speed had to be perfect. Ive got some good advice from the forum so Ill have to just set this up again and work it out so it doesn't happen again.

Hey buddy,

Sounds good. Sorry about the 4 bills but I know you'll get it back.

Talk to you soon.
Koop

FLICKit
03-15-2005, 12:03 PM
Thank you all who replied.

I thought of some of the things that were mentioned.

Hooked advice- I was worried about scratching by drawing a little too much or grazing off the 8 into the corner. It would have been a tough stroke to execute considering the distance between the cue ball and the one. But I think this is a better choice than what I did.

Flick It advice - I thought if I tried your suggestion I would have to cut the one into the 8 ball too much to bump the 8 to the side rail. And by cutting the one too much I wouldnt be able to hold back the cue ball from going back toward the middle of the table. Tough angle to do this. I would really need to kill the cue ball. I would have been satisfied to leave a bank though.

MFB- I reluctantly tried what you suggested.

I knew it would be very tough to execute. I told myself whatever I do I need to leave the one and cue on the rail . Ended up hitting the one too full and missed too much of the 8 and sold out by leaving the easy 8 - a $400 sell out. Speed and hit on the one needed to be almost perfect to do this.

If I could do it again there is no doubt I kick at it from behind (as OHB suggested). I didnt think of that and I would have been more comfortable with that decision no matter the results.

Ive read some the other responses ...thanks again.


Here's another solution that you might want to try.

Just thin the 1 ball so as to move it barely to the right. At the same time allow your cue ball to travel up table to about the half way point.

START(
%AF4N9%Bs7\2%Cs9[9%DB6B9%Et0C0%FC1\1%G[5B5%HE0M6%I[6\6%J[5B1
%KB3[8%Lt2B6%M[3\5%NB8\1%OB4B6%Pb6O9%U`0Q6%VC6P9%[G5P5%\a4O8
%eB4a0
)END

The difficulty here, is that most people would tend to hit the 1 ball too thick on the first try. Better to overcut it (as long as you make contact), than to undercut it and risk all the dangers that lie therein. Not necessarily killer (unless in the worst case scenario) but would leave more viable options to your opponent. But, if you try it a few times, you should see how thin you'd be able to hit it, and should be able to do it with relative repeatability. It's all about seeing that outermost edge of the 1-ball and then taking a smooth stroke. You'd also want to keep a very sharp eye for even the slightest graze of the 1-ball. Also, you'd have to be aware of how true the table is playing in order to even attempt this shot. If the table is even the slightest bit off, then this shot would increase in difficulty immensely.