PDA

View Full Version : Bar box problems


Chicken_Blood
04-04-2005, 08:20 PM
I have been playing exclusively on 8' & 9' tables for about four years know. Anyway I recently moved to a small town where there aren’t anything but bar boxes. Its like I just started playing. I can’t slow roll because the tables not level. The cloth is full of chalk and the balls have never been cleaned. Any bar box specialists out there who can clue me in?

Thanks

landshark77
04-04-2005, 08:24 PM
Well I can't play to save my life on anything but the bar boxes in the exact condition that you just described, lol. I dunno how to help you though. :(

christyd
04-04-2005, 08:27 PM
I have been playing exclusively on 8' & 9' tables for about four years know. Anyway I recently moved to a small town where there aren’t anything but bar boxes. Its like I just started playing. I can’t slow roll because the tables not level. The cloth is full of chalk and the balls have never been cleaned. Any bar box specialists out there who can clue me in?

Thanks

I feel your pain...........I hate barboxes.....lol
Seriously though, one thing that has helped me is I try to avoid slow rolling the ball and I shorten down my bridge.

Christyd

lukeinva
04-04-2005, 08:35 PM
Move to a different town!!

christyd
04-04-2005, 08:36 PM
Move to a different town!!


I agree 100%

landshark77
04-04-2005, 08:37 PM
Move to a different town!!
No, I got it...join the APA!!! :p :p

Chicken_Blood
04-04-2005, 08:44 PM
APA...Shudder, gasp, groan.

landshark77
04-04-2005, 08:49 PM
APA...Shudder, gasp, groan.
Hey, don't knock it, lol! I play and I can win on the crappiest tables out there! :eek:

cuejoey
04-04-2005, 08:54 PM
just an idea ..try to make the best of what you have..talk with the owner and get your own machinest level if you have to and level it yourself..also get a brush and damp rag to clean the cloth..when i was playing in a regular place that's what i did....do the best you can with the equiptment ....good luck on your playing ........you will do just fine....

Chicken_Blood
04-04-2005, 08:56 PM
Man that ranking system would just kick my ass.

landshark77
04-04-2005, 09:04 PM
Man that ranking system would just kick my ass.

Yeah well, you would be able to adapt to the not so great equipment, lmao!

Cue Joey has a great idea, I know the person who does this where I play out off. We are lucky because the owner actually really cares and changes the rails and cloth frequently. The tables still roll off and the cloth isn't the best grade, but I know other places that have holes in the felt and the rails are dead. If the owner plays the more likely the equipment will be taken care of a bit better. JMHO.

recoveryjones
04-04-2005, 09:17 PM
Another thing that you are probably experiencing difficulty with is the oversize cueball often found on coin operated bar box tables? Is the cue ball oversized? If so tops is more often the shots of choice as bottoms is a lot tougher apparently with the bigger cue ball.There are other problems and things to deal with concering the larger cue ball and cut shot problems that need some adjustments.Other people here might know more than me and could probably elaborate a little more than I can.

Also there's the alcohol/vision factor. :D RJ

mastercueartist
04-04-2005, 09:57 PM
I understand your frustration. Many Many years ago I went to a game with one of the best players that ever lived.Now the table was located on neutral groung so to speak as it was only dropped in place a few hours prior.
I looked at him and said there is no way we can lock down and shoot on this junk!!! He looked at me and said "Well your opponent has to shoot on the same junk you do".He was right ,Yes I prefer to shoot on a GC1 but a table is a table if you got moxy.I really like the other suggestion also.Clean the table up and level it off.Maybe if you build enough repore with the owner he will start takeing better care of the table .

Rod
04-04-2005, 10:04 PM
I have been playing exclusively on 8' & 9' tables for about four years know. Anyway I recently moved to a small town where there aren’t anything but bar boxes. Its like I just started playing. I can’t slow roll because the tables not level. The cloth is full of chalk and the balls have never been cleaned. Any bar box specialists out there who can clue me in?

Thanks

Get to know your equipment. C/b's roll because there not round or out of center balance (absolutly nothing you can do on a slow roll). Play the shots you can with more speed but use low english. This helps keep the c/b on a straight line. Your not trying to draw the ball just using more speed. ( drag type draw). If it turns over before the o/b it will still follow but a may be slightly different line.

K are you confused yet? LOL The table isn't level, see above. It's to detailed to go in depth but speed used with the correct stroke will reduce or elimate table rolls. Bar boxes, whether c/b induced or table induced is something we all deal with. Even big tables may need attention in this area. It's not just a bar box, play on a 12 footer sometime.

Rod

lukeinva
04-04-2005, 10:07 PM
I understand your frustration. Many Many years ago I went to a game with one of the best players that ever lived.Now the table was located on neutral groung so to speak as it was only dropped in place a few hours prior.
I looked at him and said there is no way we can lock down and shoot on this junk!!! He looked at me and said "Well your opponent has to shoot on the same junk you do".He was right ,Yes I prefer to shoot on a GC1 but a table is a table if you got moxy.I really like the other suggestion also.Clean the table up and level it off.Maybe if you build enough repore with the owner he will start takeing better care of the table .


Tell him you will take care of the tables for $20 each a week and then start an APA league!! or move to another town like I said before!

Jack Flanagan
04-04-2005, 10:20 PM
I got tired of the same thing, chicken blood,,,,so I bought the pool room,,,I'm the worst person in the world when it comes to experimenting,,,,I currently use 4 different kinds of cloth and 4 different rail rubbers, but they're all on dynamo barboxes,,,one table is so fast, only the brave actually shoot on it,,,LOL

MFB
04-04-2005, 10:27 PM
I have been playing exclusively on 8' & 9' tables for about four years know. Anyway I recently moved to a small town where there aren’t anything but bar boxes. Its like I just started playing. I can’t slow roll because the tables not level. The cloth is full of chalk and the balls have never been cleaned. Any bar box specialists out there who can clue me in?

Thanks

Don't slow roll. Use a lot of stun shots. Use other balls to stop the cueball. Stay away from your object ball, play area position, not pinpoint. Learn the goofy rolls and use them to your advantage.

Mike Templeton
04-05-2005, 05:15 AM
Get to know your equipment.
Rod
Getting to know the equipment is the key. And be patient. The same thing happened to me when I moved from Greenville, SC (all big table action) to Chattanooga (all bar box action). I was frustrated at first, but practiced on the bar boxes for a few months. After a little time, you will adjust and it won't be such a big deal.

MIke

AceHigh
04-05-2005, 05:32 AM
Get to know your equipment.
Rod

Whahahahahahahah!!!!

chefjeff
04-05-2005, 08:01 AM
I have been playing exclusively on 8' & 9' tables for about four years know. Anyway I recently moved to a small town where there aren’t anything but bar boxes. Its like I just started playing. I can’t slow roll because the tables not level. The cloth is full of chalk and the balls have never been cleaned. Any bar box specialists out there who can clue me in?

Thanks

Until about 3 months ago, I was stuck playing exclusively on barboxes. You'll live.

There's a technique called, barbox speed. That is, don't even attempt to slow roll a normal shot. Hit it ala 9-ball speed. The draw-drag shot comes in real handy on crappy barboxes when you want a soft touch on the object ball.

Exception: I was on a barbox playing "bar" rules (call kisses, etc.) the other night. I broke and ran down to the 8, but it was just barely blocked from the pocket by a ball. I thought if I hit it softly enough, being it was in the worn area where the balls are racked, it just might curve around the interfering ball. So, I gave it my best soft shot, the 8 rolled by the interfering ball, curved left as I had hoped (!!!), touched the end rail, hit the tit, and went in for the win! I laughed inside, but the crowd watching all gasped, thinking I was a pool God with special powers. ;)

One guy said I didn't call the two rails, but I laughed him off, as I thought he wasn't serious (turns out he was :rolleyes: ). I took the win, anyway.

Jeff Livingston

Opie
04-05-2005, 08:16 AM
It sounds like your problem isn' t really with the size of the table, more like the condition it's in. The place I play mainly has Diamond Smart 7 fts. It has a 9 ft. but I don't ever play on it. The 7 foots are somewhat easier because the "long" shot isn't really that long but they're alot more difficult because even if you have a good break there is usually at least two balls clustered together and there is always at least one ball on the rail. It takes much better ball management and break out skills to play well on a 7ft.

Chicken_Blood
04-05-2005, 01:25 PM
Until about 3 months ago, I was stuck playing exclusively on barboxes. You'll live.

There's a technique called, barbox speed. That is, don't even attempt to slow roll a normal shot. Hit it ala 9-ball speed. The draw-drag shot comes in real handy on crappy barboxes when you want a soft touch on the object ball.

Exception: I was on a barbox playing "bar" rules (call kisses, etc.) the other night. I broke and ran down to the 8, but it was just barely blocked from the pocket by a ball. I thought if I hit it softly enough, being it was in the worn area where the balls are racked, it just might curve around the interfering ball. So, I gave it my best soft shot, the 8 rolled by the interfering ball, curved left as I had hoped (!!!), touched the end rail, hit the tit, and went in for the win! I laughed inside, but the crowd watching all gasped, thinking I was a pool God with special powers. ;)

One guy said I didn't call the two rails, but I laughed him off, as I thought he wasn't serious (turns out he was :rolleyes: ). I took the win, anyway.

Jeff Livingston
One of the locals actually got irate because I played safeties on him (I play mostly one pocket). When I asked what rules he played by (BCA, APA, etc) I got the same look my dog gives me when I talk to him (blank stare mouth open). Anyway there were about twenty people in the room playing on four tables. This person (nickname stick) was the room hotshot so everyone was watching us play. I think there may have been almost four complete sets of teeth in the whole place.

Finally this pool sage (his teeth looked like a mouth full of corn nuts) enlightened me with the local rules:
No ball in hand (even if you hit no ball).
Call everything (kisses, rails, etc).
CB behind the line on fouls (the only foul is a scratch).
No jump shots (he called them trick shots).
Combo off any ball, even if you don’t hit your ball first (a safety
players dream).
And finally…No more than three safeties per game.

WTF…Please tell me this is not the way most bar players play. I left a copy of the BCA rules with the owner who said he would go over them and see if they fit his room.

Jack Flanagan
04-05-2005, 01:33 PM
WTF…Please tell me this is not the way most bar players play. I left a copy of the BCA rules with the owner who said he would go over them and see if they fit for his room.

not in my place,,,LOL,,,I'll be glad to show the BCA rules, framed and in 2 places on the wall, to anybody arguing...

most forget what the disagreement was actually about after they've read for a few minutes,,,LOL

chefjeff
04-05-2005, 01:41 PM
One of the locals actually got irate because I played safeties on him (I play mostly one pocket). When I asked what rules he played by (BCA, APA, etc) I got the same look my dog gives me when I talk to him (blank stare mouth open). Anyway there were about twenty people in the room playing on four tables. This person (nickname stick) was the room hotshot so everyone was watching us play. I think there may have been almost four complete sets of teeth in the whole place.

Finally this pool sage (his teeth looked like a mouth full of corn nuts) enlightened me with the local rules:
No ball in hand (even if you hit no ball).
Call everything (kisses, rails, etc).
CB behind the line on fouls (the only foul is a scratch).
No jump shots (he called them trick shots).
Combo off any ball, even if you don’t hit your ball first (a safety
players dream).
And finally…No more than three safeties per game.

WTF…Please tell me this is not the way most bar players play. I left a copy of the BCA rules with the owner who said he would go over them and see if they fit for his room.

I used to carry a one page copy of the BCA 8-balls rules in my car until one night a similar incident happened where the idiot just tore them up and refused to play (or pay, as I remember it :rolleyes: )

The guy the other night that complained about my 8-ball touching the sides of the pocket had just watched me run 16 balls in a row (8 from previous game) and then he is trying to tell me how to play pool! If this has happened once, it's happened a thousand times. This is one aspect of pool players' psychology that I'll never get.

Oh well,

Jeff Livingston

Chicken_Blood
04-05-2005, 01:43 PM
not in my place,,,LOL,,,I'll be glad to show the BCA rules, framed and in 2 places on the wall, to anybody arguing...

most forget what the disagreement was actually about after they've read for a few minutes,,,LOL

Hey Jack,
Who knows maybe I have played league too much and just forgot that it’s a game after all. The problem is that I play with several BCA instructors so we know the BCA rules forwards & backwards.

Hey I just had an epiphany. PLAY FOR FUN!

P.S. Where in the deep south?

Chicken_Blood
04-05-2005, 01:48 PM
I used to carry a one page copy of the BCA 8-balls rules in my car until one night a similar incident happened where the idiot just tore them up and refused to play (or pay, as I remember it :rolleyes: )

The guy the other night that complained about my 8-ball touching the sides of the pocket had just watched me run 16 balls in a row (8 from previous game) and then he is trying to tell me how to play pool! If this has happened once, it's happened a thousand times. This is one aspect of pool players' psychology that I'll never get.

Oh well,

Jeff Livingston
Me either, I look for better players. Play better players and you get better yourself.

Jack Flanagan
04-05-2005, 02:06 PM
P.S. Where in the deep south?

Mississippi,,,deep south, as in "off the Deep end",,,,LOL

jason
04-05-2005, 04:31 PM
hit hard and hope!

JLW
04-05-2005, 10:03 PM
Chicken Blood-

I've played pool in a lot of bars and most of the "pool players" share a few qualities. Here are some off the top of my head:

1. Contest every shot you make if they can find any excuse.
2. Try to play a "safety" by tapping the cue ball without hitting another ball or a rail.
3. Always take the easiest shot they have.
4. Are out on the dance floor when their quarters come up.
5. Get upset when they get done dancing and someone else is "playing their game"
6. Get upset when you run the table (which they attribute to you being really lucky).
7. Get upset when you play "dirty pool" and play leave on them.
8. Try to give you advice (usually wrong) on what balls to shoot.
9. Are very impressed by a powerful draw shot, but have no appreciation for strategy and great position play (which they attribute to you being really lucky).
10. Shoot hard on every shot and pretend that the position they get is intentional.

Welcome to the world of bar box pool.

stolz2
04-06-2005, 01:14 AM
Don't slow roll. Use a lot of stun shots. Use other balls to stop the cueball. Stay away from your object ball, play area position, not pinpoint. Learn the goofy rolls and use them to your advantage.

Im going to through the same transition now, I play on 9 foot GC's but on the weekend at this new local bar on crappy bar box..
The biggest advantage you have when playing these bar rules.. is to "cheat" and make your safty play look look like you ment to shoot the shot but maybe just dogged it. Now no one has a chance with me there. Im just learning the Big ball, and can now draw it almost 2 bar table lengths. You will figure it out.

Mack

Tablemechanic
04-06-2005, 03:40 AM
First they need to vacum the tables, then check how level they are and get them releveled. You do not need a machinist level to do this. Find someone in the area who has worked on tables before. Also the balls should be replaced.

If this does not fix it then the tables need to be redone.

You should never try to slow roll balls on a bar box.

Steve

Qnut
04-06-2005, 04:09 PM
Agreed with all of the above, although I'm not sure how easy much of it will be to accomplish.

I can't imagine the bar owner would be upset if you cleaned the table, so start there. If the place is like many I've seen, it's probably never cleaned & there's probably a bunch of dirt that has worked its way through the felt. As far as I know there isn't anything you can do about this until the cloth is removed/replaced. (Good luck with that one, lol)

Balls need to be professionally cleaned (or quite possibly replaced if they are that bad).

The cue ball could be replaced no matter what style it was (at little expense vs. significant improvement).

If the table is unlevel, you can do that yourself (at least to within a reasonable range). I'm don't know much about pool table maintainence & repair, but I can get a table leveled so that it is at least decent in about 10 minutes with no tools at all.

Just shoot the balls up and down & side to side and see which way it slopes. I would use a high ball with the stripe centered so that I could make sure I wasn't accidentally putting any english on the ball. After that it's just common sense on which legs to adjust, and trial and error on how much. I used to have to do this every week when I played at this bar that moved the table every Friday for a band. It was annoying, but didn't take that long.

I can't imagine this would be "bad" for the table, though it may not wind up perfectly level by professional table mechanic standards.

Some of the stuff you won't be able to control and/or change, and you will have to adjust your game accordingly. It can be frustrating, but you will learn to adapt.

Thankfully, nowadays most of the bars in our area have learned to give the bar boxes a little respect. Some of them have actually become a pleasure to shoot on. Hope your luck is as good....

~Chris

mikepage
04-07-2005, 03:37 PM
[QUOTE=Chicken_Blood]I have been playing exclusively on 8' & 9' tables for about four years know. Anyway I recently moved to a small town where there aren’t anything but bar boxes. [...]

Somebody else mentioned drag shots. I think this is a really important point. If you want the cueball to hit the object ball six feet away rolling slowly, there are two ways to do it. One is roll the cueball slowly. And the other is to hit the cueball harder with backspin such that the cueball skids down the table with the brakes on. You want the backspin to wear off just before the cueball hits the object ball.

Here are some other things that are different on a bar box. Bar box players don't worry as much about getting the cueball close to the object ball. This is because corner pockets are big, and the table is not so long. There is more emphasis on making sure the cueball is in the clear.

Also, on a table with tighter pockets, getting straight in on a shot is often the kiss of death. While on a bar box, anytime the object ball is within a couple feet of the corner pocket, you have an angle because of the big pockets. This is more a caution going in the other direction I guess.

chefjeff
04-14-2005, 07:05 AM
[QUOTE=Chicken_Blood]I have been playing exclusively on 8' & 9' tables for about four years know. Anyway I recently moved to a small town where there aren’t anything but bar boxes. [...]

Somebody else mentioned drag shots. I think this is a really important point. If you want the cueball to hit the object ball six feet away rolling slowly, there are two ways to do it. One is roll the cueball slowly. And the other is to hit the cueball harder with backspin such that the cueball skids down the table with the brakes on. You want the backspin to wear off just before the cueball hits the object ball.

Here are some other things that are different on a bar box. Bar box players don't worry as much about getting the cueball close to the object ball. This is because corner pockets are big, and the table is not so long. There is more emphasis on making sure the cueball is in the clear.

Also, on a table with tighter pockets, getting straight in on a shot is often the kiss of death. While on a bar box, anytime the object ball is within a couple feet of the corner pocket, you have an angle because of the big pockets. This is more a caution going in the other direction I guess.


Because I've been subing on a 9-ballbar league, I thought of this thread while playing Sunday night.

I watched a pretty good shooter screw himself several times and so I asked him if he normally played on 9 footers. He said 'yes' and wondered how I knew this. I told him I could tell by the shots he selected and the pockets he selected. My advice (after the match ;) ) to him was to avoid the side pockets. I'm not sure he got it, but...

The side pockets on the Valley bar tables (most common here) are so fricking tiny that a golf ball has a hard time going in. They are MORE than one inch smaller that most 9-footers! AND...this is the part that gets me....and the way the cloth is stretched arouond the tits (to look good, according to a mechanic) it makes the sides snooker-like, thus about 1,000 more deadly than a big table's sides.

So, generally speaking, learn to set up for, and chose, the corners, in the words of George Fels, "whenever possible."

Jeff Livingston

Chicken_Blood
04-15-2005, 10:28 AM
Thanks all,
Well tonight’s the night, playing in a nine ball tournament at the same place (at least we agree on the rules). Let’s see if I got it mostly right:

Don't slow roll.
Corner pockets are better than side pockets.
Over cut everything.
Realize there are no long shots on a bar box.
Shorten your bridge.
Favor follow shots.
Use a lot of stun shots.
Join the APA.
Move to a different town.

That about it?

chefjeff
04-15-2005, 10:37 AM
Thanks all,
Well tonight’s the night, playing in a nine ball tournament at the same place (at least we agree on the rules). Let’s see if I got it mostly right:

Don't slow roll.
Corner pockets are better than side pockets.
Over cut everything.
Realize there are no long shots on a bar box.
Shorten your bridge.
Favor follow shots.
Use a lot of stun shots.
Join the APA.
Move to a different town.

That about it?

That's a good list. I forgot to add one other thing: Most barboxes have a big cabinet that most 9-footers don't have. This means that your stance on certain shots doesn't allow your knee to go under the table as it would on a 9-footer. So, you'll have to create a new stance for these shots that will be unfamiliar for a while, what with your knee squished up against the cabinet.

Jeff Livingston

Chicken_Blood
04-16-2005, 08:22 AM
Played in the nine ball tourney last night. Took second out of 25, all the advice helped considerably. Out of all the comments I think the advice on not slow rolling and staying away from the anorexic side pockets were the most useful. I still dont like playing on a small table but I will deal with it.

chefjeff
04-16-2005, 11:45 AM
Played in the nine ball tourney last night. Took second out of 25, all the advice helped considerably. Out of all the comments I think the advice on not slow rolling and staying away from the anorexic side pockets were the most useful. I still dont like playing on a small table but I will deal with it.

Good job....You must've made, what, fifty bucks? ...now what kinda percentage do we get? ;)

Jeff Livingston

Chicken_Blood
04-16-2005, 01:49 PM
Good job....You must've made, what, fifty bucks? ...now what kinda percentage do we get? ;)

Jeff Livingston

$10.00 entry fee, 25 people and the bar matches the pot ($500.00).
Single elimination (no loosers bracket) Pays three places:

1st place $250.00
2nd place $150.00
3rd place $100.00

I am sorry but my vision just went blurry...Something about a percentage?

myk13
04-16-2005, 01:54 PM
I own a bar with 4 bar boxes in it. Since i myself play alot i take better care of them, and my operator does too. He replaces felt often and keeps the balls clean. However we have a bar league with about 15 other local bars involved, and alot of them never even clean the tables. I agree with a couple things i have read so far. when you find a table with a larger cue ball, the follow shot and playing natural leave is usually the best choice, because the larger ball is also heavier and harder to draw. As for the tables that are not level i also agree with playing low english and hitting the ball firmer to help keep it on line.

mnorwood
04-16-2005, 08:53 PM
If you buy a table buy one that is similar to the one you compete on.

It would be good to buy a used one that is beat up. It would be good to spill a couple of beers on it and burn one of the rails with a cigarette. Also take a chisel and dig a couple of small holes in the cue ball and the 8 and 9 ball. Finally, buy a compilation of classic rock (leonard skinnard, almond brothers, etc.) and turn the volume all the way up while you play.

Hope this helps,
Marcus

Chicken_Blood
04-18-2005, 01:40 PM
If you buy a table buy one that is similar to the one you compete on.

It would be good to buy a used one that is beat up. It would be good to spill a couple of beers on it and burn one of the rails with a cigarette. Also take a chisel and dig a couple of small holes in the cue ball and the 8 and 9 ball. Finally, buy a compilation of classic rock (leonard skinnard, almond brothers, etc.) and turn the volume all the way up while you play.

Hope this helps,
Marcus
I might also want to fire 15 or 20 pellets into the felt and have a slow burning trash fire in the back.

Jack Flanagan
04-18-2005, 02:02 PM
you might want to pull a few rail rubbers loose so you can stay familiar with dead rails, too,,,,'works for me'

look for a table with two different rail profiles on the side rails, so you can't run one past the side pocket...LOL

catscradle
04-19-2005, 04:31 AM
The book Eight Ball Bible might help out your barbox tactics. It is about playing 8-ball on bar boxes. Even though it is strictly talking about 8-ball, I think it would help with any game on bar boxes.

matthew staton
05-23-2005, 08:04 AM
I have been playing exclusively on 8' & 9' tables for about four years know. Anyway I recently moved to a small town where there aren’t anything but bar boxes. Its like I just started playing. I can’t slow roll because the tables not level. The cloth is full of chalk and the balls have never been cleaned. Any bar box specialists out there who can clue me in?

Thanks


shoot firm and use a lot of draw strokes.