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Timberly
04-05-2005, 08:20 AM
I'm pretty new to league play because it's popularity boom came about during my hiatus.. I don't know if this is the norm or what, but either way it pisses me off. I play on an independent scotch doubles league (I'm not going to play APA or TAP). Last night was the first night of playoff's and we were supposed to have 4th place locked up with a good chance of finishing higher. A couple of months ago our team had to forfeit one night. I was out of town on a family emergency, two others were out of town and the rest were working. It's the only night we've ever missed. The team we played had the option of meeting us one night during the week and making up the session, which they took. When it came time to play, they changed their minds and wanted us to forfeit all 12 games. Ok fine, not a problem. The problem is that instead of giving us 12 losses, they took away 12 of our wins! How can they take away wins that have already been accomplished???? Now we're in 5th place going into the play off's. Is this the way it's supposed to be done, or am I right in thinking we should've been given 12 losses?

While I'm venting... I just want to say what an absolute CROCK it is that the UPA is sanctioning an INVITATIONAL event. How do they justify giving points in a tournament that not all the players can play in because not everyone gets an invitation??? Again, am I missing something???

:mad:

Jude Rosenstock
04-05-2005, 08:31 AM
I'm pretty new to league play because it's popularity boom came about during my hiatus.. I don't know if this is the norm or what, but either way it pisses me off. I play on an independent scotch doubles league (I'm not going to play APA or TAP). Last night was the first night of playoff's and we were supposed to have 4th place locked up with a good chance of finishing higher. A couple of months ago our team had to forfeit one night. I was out of town on a family emergency, two others were out of town and the rest were working. It's the only night we've ever missed. The team we played had the option of meeting us one night during the week and making up the session, which they took. When it came time to play, they changed their minds and wanted us to forfeit all 12 games. Ok fine, not a problem. The problem is that instead of giving us 12 losses, they took away 12 of our wins! How can they take away wins that have already been accomplished???? Now we're in 5th place going into the play off's. Is this the way it's supposed to be done, or am I right in thinking we should've been given 12 losses?

While I'm venting... I just want to say what an absolute CROCK it is that the UPA is sanctioning an INVITATIONAL event. How do they justify giving points in a tournament that not all the players can play in because not everyone gets an invitation??? Again, am I missing something???

:mad:



Regarding your league beef, you have every right to be upset. (I feel like a Gossip Columnist) Bring this up with your league director, preferrably during a league meeting of sorts (when everyone is present). If he's going to do something like that, he should have to explain for it. Ask him if it's printed in the rules somewhere.

About the UPA, it is not uncommon for organizations to have invitation-only events where points are allocated. They don't claim to be an "Open Tour" and have had several restricted or semi-restricted events in the past. Without knowing who is invited and who isn't, I am all but certain they will invite all of the top 32 (anyone who might be in contention for Player of The Year). What is likely the case is that the field needed to be limited to a set number of players and the host wanted to be assured that certain players would be there.

hustlefinger
04-05-2005, 08:42 AM
I'm pretty new to league play because it's popularity boom came about during my hiatus..

The problem is that instead of giving us 12 losses, they took away 12 of our wins! How can they take away wins that have already been accomplished???? Now we're in 5th place going into the play off's. Is this the way it's supposed to be done, or am I right in thinking we should've been given 12 losses?
:mad:

Don’t worry too much it’ll all work out in the end. You’re probably familiar with basic math, or high level math, or even new math, but……….. league math is in a *league* of it’s own. It’s a strange and magical number manipulation system. Numbers appear and disappear at will. :)

Rick

Timberly
04-05-2005, 08:53 AM
I am all but certain they will invite all of the top 32 (anyone who might be in contention for Player of The Year). What is likely the case is that the field needed to be limited to a set number of players and the host wanted to be assured that certain players would be there.[/QUOTE]
I can understand that but the problem with it is timing.... example being Shawn Putnam... He's won the 1st two events this yr, is currently ranked #1 and naturally wants to hold onto that spot but he didn't get an invitation. These events have to be planned well ahead of time and of course the invitations must go out early. There is no perfect solution because of timing... seem's to me that it would be more fair to players in the points contention if the invitationals weren't point events.

Since I've used Shawn's situation as an example, I want to clearly state that I don't know the whole story, and I'm in no way speaking for him. I just know he mentioned in VF that he didn't get an invitation which at the time didn't seem all that important until I recently discovered that it's a UPA points event. I think Shawn did end up getting into the event which is great for him but the lingering question is... what if he didn't?

Thanks for your input Jude.

Jude Rosenstock
04-05-2005, 09:18 AM
People always drop-out. In a way, that makes it a self-correcting system. Not to say that it's perfect and it would have been widely discussed had Putnam not been invited but in today's world of limited finances (for both players and sponsors), it's all but unavoidable. The best you can do is allow history to be your guide. The only problem with that is sometimes, you get a Shawn Putnam.

chefjeff
04-05-2005, 01:14 PM
(snip) The team we played had the option of meeting us one night during the week and making up the session, which they took. When it came time to play, they changed their minds and wanted us to forfeit all 12 games. Ok fine, not a problem. The problem is that instead of giving us 12 losses, they took away 12 of our wins! How can they take away wins that have already been accomplished???? Now we're in 5th place going into the play off's. Is this the way it's supposed to be done, or am I right in thinking we should've been given 12 losses?

(snip)
:mad:

It seems to me that the team you were supposed to play, until THEY backed out, are the ones who forfeited, not you guys. You followed the league guidelines for a makeup match, which means you chose to NOT forfeit, but simply change the time/place.

Your team came to the makeup match, right? And then the other team said they weren't going to play even though they had agreed to earlier on, right?

Your team showed for the makeup match; the other team forfeited it, is how I see it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Jeff Livingston

Jon
04-05-2005, 01:21 PM
I agree with Jeff.
And people wonder why "everybody" doesn't play in a league...

crawdaddio
04-05-2005, 01:48 PM
League pool sucks. (I have only played APA). I can't even count the number of complaints I have heard or had myself. The APA only wants your money. Period.

Sad thing is, I still play it...............just nothin' else to do around here.

~DC

Kerry Impson
04-05-2005, 01:55 PM
I also agree with Jeff. But if they are allowed to pull something like that, you're right - at the very least your team should get 12 losses and not have 12 wins removed. That's ludicrous! Unfortunately it all depends on the rules, so definitely take Jude's advice and talk with the league director. Good luck!

crawdaddio
04-05-2005, 01:57 PM
Here's one.

A friend's team took first place, qualifying them for vegas. Only one player could make the trip. The others could not schedule it due to work, family, whatever. So they decided to just keep the first place "travel" prize money (which wasn't even CLOSE to covering travel expenses BTW). When the league operator found out, she told them either make the trip and play, RETURN THE PRIZE MONEY, or be permanently banned from the APA!! So now six very talented and dedicated pool players are banned for life from the APA. Absolutely rediculous.

APA: "Show me the money"

BTW- I also agree with Jeff, it seems to me that the other team would have to take the forfeit.

~DC

Jack Flanagan
04-05-2005, 02:00 PM
APA = Always Pay, Always

Wally in Cincy
04-05-2005, 02:08 PM
...six very talented and dedicated pool players are banned for life from the APA. Absolutely rediculous.



An APA operator throwing his customers out of the league? You don't see that often.

Our LO puts up with all kinds of nonsense from players who should have been thrown out, in one instance a captain bsaically stole half of her teams Vegas travel money (from fundraisers) and she's still playing.

Timberly
04-05-2005, 02:40 PM
Your team came to the makeup match, right? And then the other team said they weren't going to play even though they had agreed to earlier on, right?
The other team was given the option to let the forfeit stand or utilize a make-up date. They originally said they would take a make-up date but when it came down to finalizing a date they backed out. That would've been fine with us, we understand we couldn't make our commitment to be at the regularly scheduled match and due to that we were going to get 12 forfeits. Taking away 12 completed wins is something that never crossed our minds. I still don't have all the details on the situation. All I know is that the captain of the other team called the league, blah, blah and this was the end result. The worst part is that it's not a team that's 3 or 4 games behind us it's the team that was directly behind us and by taking away 12 wins, they're now ahead of us. I would love nothing more than to play them because we can beat them but we're playing the 1st place team which we tied 6-6 the last time we played them so we've got a chance. At this point, I don't care about 1st... I just want a chance to play the team that did this to us or at the very least get far enough in the play offs to finish ahead of them.

jason
04-05-2005, 04:26 PM
I agree...

Now print out every post and deliver them to your league director and fellow league members.


:)>$$$$

vapoolplayer
04-05-2005, 06:49 PM
I'm pretty new to league play because it's popularity boom came about during my hiatus.. I don't know if this is the norm or what, but either way it pisses me off. I play on an independent scotch doubles league (I'm not going to play APA or TAP). Last night was the first night of playoff's and we were supposed to have 4th place locked up with a good chance of finishing higher. A couple of months ago our team had to forfeit one night. I was out of town on a family emergency, two others were out of town and the rest were working. It's the only night we've ever missed. The team we played had the option of meeting us one night during the week and making up the session, which they took. When it came time to play, they changed their minds and wanted us to forfeit all 12 games. Ok fine, not a problem. The problem is that instead of giving us 12 losses, they took away 12 of our wins! How can they take away wins that have already been accomplished???? Now we're in 5th place going into the play off's. Is this the way it's supposed to be done, or am I right in thinking we should've been given 12 losses?

While I'm venting... I just want to say what an absolute CROCK it is that the UPA is sanctioning an INVITATIONAL event. How do they justify giving points in a tournament that not all the players can play in because not everyone gets an invitation??? Again, am I missing something???

:mad:

without going into a rant i'll just say...........welcome to "league" pool

you'll run into tons of assholes who instead of just playing, will be rule mumbo jumbos, and pull every technicality they can on you. this is one of the reasons i no longer will play league pool. i get more out of paying 70-100 bucks once or twice a month to play open tourneys.

VAP

Timberly
04-06-2005, 05:02 PM
I realized today that there's one important point I didn't make clear in my posts and in case someone from the other team does happen to read these boards, it's very important for me to state the following... I have no problem with anyone on the other team. I consider all of them friends and enjoy shooting pool with them in both the league and when we're hanging out at the bar. My anger is geared towards the decision the league made.... That being said, I'm still as competitive as the next person and I still want to kick their ass! :p

cuejoey
04-07-2005, 12:43 AM
without going into a rant i'll just say...........welcome to "league" pool

you'll run into tons of assholes who instead of just playing, will be rule mumbo jumbos, and pull every technicality they can on you. this is one of the reasons i no longer will play league pool. i get more out of paying 70-100 bucks once or twice a month to play open tourneys.

VAP
i agree..to bad there are not more open tourneys...........