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King Kong
04-05-2005, 12:47 PM
I read these posts and was outraged, regarding AZBilliards 10 Ball. I do not feel dwelling on the past is good. Except to learn from our mistakes and move on. Here are some Economic Mistakes of the past.

1. The tours failed because it failed to obtain local support from Room owners etc.
2. The tours failed because they were too long and not on weekends
3. The tours failed because of competing dates.
4. The Leagues are not tied into the success of the tournaments. The APA & BCA should have some vested interest. Say 10% to give an incentive to properly get the word out to local bars and pool rooms and some form of measuring their success and scale of pay.
5. The locations chosen were poor and lacked strong pool demographics. Example “Pittsburg”
6. Failure to have Local room owners have qualifiers and send its best players.
7. Failed to mention the tax write off and lack of economic impact on rooms that hold qualifiers.
8. Failed to get room owners to see the marketing potential and ties to the success of local talent and the effects of cross marketing in local news papers and articles about local players.
9. Failed to have Hats, shirts & etc during match play promoting local bars or pool room’s or sponsors.
10. Failed to have the qualifiers like poker to guaranty high player turn out.
11. Failed to get pro players to commit to attending
12. Failed to protect players from pay out problems except UPA!
13. Failed to allow promoters to advertise pro-players in attendance
14. Failed to have standardized selection rules for televised events. What is the selection process for “Skins game, Challenge of Champions, Team America & etc.”
15. Failed to obtain industry support. Each Manufacturer donate a table and they rotate being feature table.
16. Failed to obtain standards of conduct except UPA!
17. Failed to create a dress code for televised matches and incorporate sponsors logo
18. Failed to provide Bio’s on televised matches or back ground on players
19. Failed to try different games except Sudden death 7 Ball. One Pocket, Ring 9 Ball & etc never explored.
20. Failed to have industry giveaways. Again a write off to the company
21. Failed to have the BCA & APA leverage its player base to solicit support for tournaments from major companies. There is strength in numbers. They can approach major companies for support of pro pool with their 500,000 plus members as justification for their marketing expense.
22. BCA and APA excluding pro players and failing to sponsor or promote them.
23. BCA & APA failing to employ pro players as instructors and/or give back exhibitions & Instruction. Who would not like Archer once every 2 weeks to work with the 1’s and 2”s of the league in exchange for sponsoring him or some other pro and you get the write of as well.
24. We have business leaders in the ranks of the APA & BCA and they have never been approached about support or having their company support the sport with their advertising dollars.
25. How many high level executives buy custom cues. Cue makers have no-one or no where to refer them too regarding supporting or sponsoring the game until the UPA! Also, let’s not exclude Japanese and over sees executives as well.



There is so much that can be done and these are just examples of what we are not doing economically to empower the sport or the pro-player. Let’s not make the same mistakes twice!

Purdman
04-05-2005, 12:53 PM
Everybody wants to take out and not put in!
Everybody wants to party but nobody wants to clean! ( Keb Mo )
We are victims of comfort! ( Keb Mo )
We are poisoning the water and choking on the air, nobody cares.
Purdman :rolleyes:

AuntyDan
04-05-2005, 03:36 PM
I am confused, why is this so difficult? Why don't people in the USA interesting in created a stable, long-running Mens Pro tour copy the format of the WBPA? (With their permission of course) Are they too proud to admit that women can work out something men cannot?

I appreciate the current WPBA format is not totally ideal (Short races in the finals, purses that are still fairly small etc.) but at least they actually have kept it running consistently for nearly 30 years now, have regular TV coverage and their players always get paid the adevertised purse. Also for women in the USA there is actually a real path that aspiring new players can follow.

sjm
04-05-2005, 04:33 PM
I read these posts and was outraged, regarding AZBilliards 10 Ball. I do not feel dwelling on the past is good. Except to learn from our mistakes and move on.

For the most part, your post was superb, and your cry that steps be taken to avoid repeating the mistakes of yesteryear was a well-judged one.

Still, the ten ball thread was a call for financing, and therefore entailed sizing up pro pool as a sector in which to invest, not to mention recommend that others invest similarly. To do that ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES dwelling on the past, for the same reason prudent investors look at a company's earnings history and the scrupulousness of its operations before buying stock in it.

There is nobody who would invest significantly in pool that would not study its past, and its time that professional male players realized that their track record is, in the end, something potential investors in the sport will always scrutinize. Through their behavior,it's safe to say that male professionals have yet to understand this.

I sure hope they read your post, because it will help to put them on the right track and to set the right priorities.

pete lafond
04-05-2005, 05:22 PM
I am confused, why is this so difficult? Why don't people in the USA interesting in created a stable, long-running Mens Pro tour copy the format of the WBPA? (With their permission of course) Are they too proud to admit that women can work out something men cannot?

I appreciate the current WPBA format is not totally ideal (Short races in the finals, purses that are still fairly small etc.) but at least they actually have kept it running consistently for nearly 30 years now, have regular TV coverage and their players always get paid the adevertised purse. Also for women in the USA there is actually a real path that aspiring new players can follow.

Great comments..

vapoolplayer
04-05-2005, 06:44 PM
I am confused, why is this so difficult? Why don't people in the USA interesting in created a stable, long-running Mens Pro tour copy the format of the WBPA? (With their permission of course) Are they too proud to admit that women can work out something men cannot?

I appreciate the current WPBA format is not totally ideal (Short races in the finals, purses that are still fairly small etc.) but at least they actually have kept it running consistently for nearly 30 years now, have regular TV coverage and their players always get paid the adevertised purse. Also for women in the USA there is actually a real path that aspiring new players can follow.

i believe that is the UPA's overall goal aunty.............i might be wrong.

the contract that the men have so much of a problem signing for the UPA is an EXACT MIRROR COPY of thw WPBA contract from what i understand.

things take time, you have to develop an interest, as well as make people see that the UPA is here to stay before you can just set up a system like that.

i'm not out and out defending the UPA, just trying to look at it from the up side.

remember, the wpba has been around for 30 years, but its just the last 10 or so i would call the "golden years" the 20 before that were rough i'm sure.

VAP

Jersey
04-05-2005, 07:09 PM
I read these posts and was outraged, regarding AZBilliards 10 Ball. I do not feel dwelling on the past is good. Except to learn from our mistakes and move on. Here are some Economic Mistakes of the past.

1. The tours failed because it failed to obtain local support from Room owners etc.
2. The tours failed because they were too long and not on weekends
3. The tours failed because of competing dates.
4. The Leagues are not tied into the success of the tournaments. The APA & BCA should have some vested interest. Say 10% to give an incentive to properly get the word out to local bars and pool rooms and some form of measuring their success and scale of pay.
5. The locations chosen were poor and lacked strong pool demographics. Example “Pittsburg”
6. Failure to have Local room owners have qualifiers and send its best players.
7. Failed to mention the tax write off and lack of economic impact on rooms that hold qualifiers.
8. Failed to get room owners to see the marketing potential and ties to the success of local talent and the effects of cross marketing in local news papers and articles about local players.
9. Failed to have Hats, shirts & etc during match play promoting local bars or pool room’s or sponsors.
10. Failed to have the qualifiers like poker to guaranty high player turn out.
11. Failed to get pro players to commit to attending
12. Failed to protect players from pay out problems except UPA!
13. Failed to allow promoters to advertise pro-players in attendance
14. Failed to have standardized selection rules for televised events. What is the selection process for “Skins game, Challenge of Champions, Team America & etc.”
15. Failed to obtain industry support. Each Manufacturer donate a table and they rotate being feature table.
16. Failed to obtain standards of conduct except UPA!
17. Failed to create a dress code for televised matches and incorporate sponsors logo
18. Failed to provide Bio’s on televised matches or back ground on players
19. Failed to try different games except Sudden death 7 Ball. One Pocket, Ring 9 Ball & etc never explored.
20. Failed to have industry giveaways. Again a write off to the company
21. Failed to have the BCA & APA leverage its player base to solicit support for tournaments from major companies. There is strength in numbers. They can approach major companies for support of pro pool with their 500,000 plus members as justification for their marketing expense.
22. BCA and APA excluding pro players and failing to sponsor or promote them.
23. BCA & APA failing to employ pro players as instructors and/or give back exhibitions & Instruction. Who would not like Archer once every 2 weeks to work with the 1’s and 2”s of the league in exchange for sponsoring him or some other pro and you get the write of as well.
24. We have business leaders in the ranks of the APA & BCA and they have never been approached about support or having their company support the sport with their advertising dollars.
25. How many high level executives buy custom cues. Cue makers have no-one or no where to refer them too regarding supporting or sponsoring the game until the UPA! Also, let’s not exclude Japanese and over sees executives as well.



There is so much that can be done and these are just examples of what we are not doing economically to empower the sport or the pro-player. Let’s not make the same mistakes twice!

Good points all...as for point #23...APA Atlanta has been endorsed by Johnny Archer, and they sponsor and he gives of his time and talent doing Clinics for beginner & advanced players, as well as 'play the pro' nights, where for $5 you can play a rack of your favorite game against him...all proceeds to charity...the room, (Mr. Cues II), also raffles cues and gear during these events...

bruin70
04-05-2005, 07:13 PM
the whole idea of asking for monetary help from its spectator base is obscene! i'm not going to help a bunch of immature children fend their way in life.

vapoolplayer
04-06-2005, 01:29 AM
the whole idea of asking for monetary help from its spectator base is obscene! i'm not going to help a bunch of immature children fend their way in life.


of course not...........do the same thing that everyone else has been doing for 20 years.............wait for someone else to fix it.......... :rolleyes:

VAP

bruin70
04-06-2005, 02:27 AM
of course not...........do the same thing that everyone else has been doing for 20 years.............wait for someone else to fix it.......... :rolleyes:

VAP

i'm not "waiting" for anyone to fix it.

pool's rep has been suffering for going on 100+
years. geez man,,,i hope that this is not something everyone loses sleep over.

td873
04-06-2005, 07:11 AM
There is so much that can be done and these are just examples of what we are not doing economically to empower the sport or the pro-player. Let’s not make the same mistakes twice!
I believe that improving the 'internal workings' of our sport is important, and cohesion among the players, room owners, governing body, leagues, etc is a problem with our sport in general. However, I believe that to propel pool into the echelon of golf or tennis, we need a fundamental change in our repuation.

It is a commentary on pool's reputation that beer and casinos (and formerly cigarettes) support our players more than GMC or Dell (or Rolex). However, I don't believe that there are more 'bad apples' in the pool world than there are in the golf/tennis/bowling world. We've just had more negative publicity.

It doesn't help us that golf has movies like "The Legend of Bagger Vance" (public associates Legend with golf), "Tin Cup", and "Bobby Jones - Stroke of Genius" (Genius in title) to legitimize their sport, and we get "Pool Hall Junkies" (Junky in the title), "The Color of Money" and "The Hustler" (Hustler in the title) to illustrate to the world what our sport is about. [Anyone who has seen these movies can attest to the contrasting images of the sports.] (*note* I did like both Paul Newman movies)

The perception given to the non-poolplaying public by our pool movies is EXACTLY what parents worry their kids will be involved in if they play pool. I believe that big business doesn't want to support a cause that (based on the movies of course) encourgages gambling, drinking, smoking, and 'misbehavin'.

Pool will never enjoy the money of golf without big business's financial support, and at the same time, will never get big business to consider pool a worthwhile investment without improving pool's reputation. [Perhaps, a demographic study to show big business (i.e., advertisers) that the people who watch pool and see their advertising actually have the ability to spend money on their products would be a start...]

What is needed is a change in public opinion to remove the stigma of pool's negative image. If anyone knows how to change a hundred milliion people's minds overnight, that would be a perfect solution ;)


-td