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KoolKat9Lives
10-24-2008, 10:55 AM
Ya gotta watch him. I watched him play Wednes and Thurs. The match yesterday vs Franklin Hernandez was something f'g else. Here's my highlights as I saw them railside.

He enters the Convention Center and stops among us common folk and starts his schpeal on current affairs, mostly about the jump stick. "No player here has any integrity! They support the jump stick. It's a gimmick!" I say to him "It certainly has changed the game but ya gotta believe there's too much money being made on the jump sticks to ever outlaw it." Earl: "It's not a different game! It's a gimmick game with too much luck! Whatever happened to kicking?! And whadaya mean it's about money!? Pool is DYING! I'm the only player with any integrity! I wear my passion on my sleeve!" .......

Off to the table... Franklin wins the lag. Earl is talking away and Franklin backs off his break stance, shoots a "you're starting real F'g early" look at Earl. Franklin breaks, and starts off strong with the first rack. Then Earl gets the next and then rack #3. As he walks around the table to move his second "ball-bead" over he's chatting away to anyone and everyone. I see him mistakenly move Franklin's second ball! The crowd is thick for this match, thicker than ANY so far, by multitides. Every seat taken within view, and 4 deep standing behind the rail.

Anyway, I believe I see Franklin get a quick look at Earls' error, but it was impossible to tell as his glance was so brief. I look around the crowd and maybe a couple others notice. Anyway, the crowd is not apparently supposed to say anything and no one does. Earl is still yapping away. Maybe 45 seconds pass while Frankin is just sitting there, not moving to rack, allowing Earl to hold court. Then Franklin gets up, takes his cue and wipes his ball back and marks up Earl's second. CLASS MOVE. I don't believe Earl ever even knew this occurred as he was busy at the time. :cool:

The play is EXCELLENT. The match progresses. Franklin plays great, and stays quiet and is a total gentleman. He plays way better than many/most that I watched over 2 days.


Then... Around rack 9, Earl lifts his right leg up and "Ripppppp", a velcro strip goes off and what appears to be an ankle weight is taken off and he quickly wraps it around his left elbow. "WTF?" Someone says he wore a waist weight belt recently to "remind him to stay down". :confused: Play goes back and forth, and Earl maintains @ a 2-3 game lead. I step over to the other side of the center to check with a friend on the Robles/Souquet match.

I come back and here's Earl shooting with a set of massive headphones on. Not music, just noise buffeting headphones, similar to those worn by airport ground crew. WTF? He is now a sight to behold with one sleeve rolled up with a weight on, anf the other further down and these huge earmuffs on. He goes a couple racks, missing nothing, saying nothing. The stroke, the movement, the play ... was the best and most electric and WOW that I have EVER witnessed.

Then, after he polishes off a 9, he turns to the crowd and momentarily pulls the headphones away from the ears. "You guys are the loudest crowd I have EVER heard! I can hear you through these things and I can't even hear a 747 through these!!!" He breaks dry and takes a seat and removes them, "man these things are hot to wear!".

It's about 9-6 Earl when a most interesting thing happened. Earl gets hooked. The OB is the 7 and it's about 5 inches from the mouth of the side. The 9 is 18 inches away in direct line of the cue which is @ 12 inches from the 9. A basic jump shot.... Earl walks over to his break stick and looks at it (mind you it has an Elkmaster tip on it). He looks, and pauses a few seconds, and turns around. He mutters something, walks back to the table, and lightly kicks the cue off the opposite long rail and drops the 7 in, in perfect po for the 8. HUGE applause. Game over.

Last note for now... I believe it is Case game now. The 2 is in the corner jaws on the foot. The cue is frozen on the head rail. He jacks up over 45 degrees and hammers the 2 in, and whitey pulls back a foot or so without hitting a rail. Perfect shape.

UnF'g real play, unreal match. Love him or hate him, he is the match to watch. Thanks to both players for great play! :thumbup:

(My friend took a ton of pic's that I hope to nab today, I will try to post some soon!)

dirtypool40
10-24-2008, 11:02 AM
Earl is many things, but has NEVER been accused of being boring!!!:thumbup:

Bigtruck
10-24-2008, 11:04 AM
Ya gotta watch him. I watched him play Wednes and Thurs. The match yesterday vs Franklin Hernandez was something f'g else. Here's my highlights as I saw them railside.

He enters the Convention Center and stops among us common folk and starts his schpeal on current affairs, mostly about the jump stick. "No player here has any integrity! They support the jump stick. It's a gimmick!" I say to him "It certainly has changed the game but ya gotta believe there's too much money being made on the jump sticks to ever outlaw it." Earl: "It's not a different game! It's a gimmick game with too much luck! Whatever happened to kicking?! And whadaya mean it's about money!? Pool is DYING! I'm the only player with any integrity! I wear my passion on my sleeve!" .......

Off to the table... Franklin wins the lag. Earl is talking away and Franklin backs off his break stance, shoots a "you're starting real F'g early" look at Earl. Franklin breaks, and starts off strong with the first rack. Then Earl gets the next and then rack #3. As he walks around the table to move his second "ball-bead" over he's chatting away to anyone and everyone. I see him mistakenly move Franklin's second ball! The crowd is thick for this match, thicker than ANY so far, by multitides. Every seat taken within view, and 4 deep standing behind the rail.

Anyway, I believe I see Franklin get a quick look at Earls' error, but it was impossible to tell as his glance was so brief. I look around the crowd and notice his friend and backer, John (a great guy btw) notice. Maybe a couple others notice. Anyway, the crowd is not apparently supposed to say anything and no one does. Earl is still yapping away. Maybe 45 seconds pass while Frankin is just sitting there, not moving to rack, allowing Earl to hold court. Then Franklin gets up, takes his cue and wipes his ball back and marks up Earl's second. CLASS MOVE. I don't believe Earl ever even knew this occurred as he was busy at the time. :cool:

The play is EXCELLENT. The match progresses. Franklin plays great, and stays quiet and is a total gentleman. He plays way better than many/most that I watched over 2 days.


Then... Around rack 9, Earl lifts his right leg up and "Ripppppp", a velcro strip goes off and what appears to be an ankle weight is taken off and he quickly wraps it around his left elbow. "WTF?" Someone says he wore a waist weight belt recently to "remind him to stay down". :confused: Play goes back and forth, and Earl maintains @ a 2-3 game lead. I step over to the other side of the center to check with a friend on the Robles/Souquet match.

I come back and here's Earl shooting with a set of massive headphones on. Not music, just noise buffeting headphones, similar to those worn by airport ground crew. WTF? He is now a sight to behold with one sleeve rolled up with a weight on, anf the other further down and these huge earmuffs on. He goes a couple racks, missing nothing, saying nothing. The stroke, the movement, the play ... was the best and most electric and WOW that I have EVER witnessed.

Then, after he polishes off a 9, he turns to the crowd and momentarily pulls the headphones away from the ears. "You guys are the loudest crowd I have EVER heard! I can hear you through these things and I can't even hear a 747 through these!!!" He breaks dry and takes a seat and removes them, "man these things are hot to wear!".

It's about 9-6 Earl when a most interesting thing happened. Earl gets hooked. The OB is the 7 and it's about 5 inches from the mouth of the side. The 9 is 18 inches away in direct line of the cue which is @ 12 inches from the 9. A basic jump shot.... Earl walks over to his break stick and looks at it (mind you it has an Elkmaster tip on it). He looks, and pauses a few seconds, and turns around. He mutters something, walks back to the table, and lightly kicks the cue off the opposite long rail and drops the 7 in, in perfect po for the 8. HUGE applause. Game over.

Last note for now... I believe it is Case game now. The 2 is in the corner jaws on the foot. The cue is frozen on the head rail. He jacks up over 45 degrees and hammers the 2 in, and whitey pulls back a foot or so without hitting a rail. Perfect shape.

UnF'g real play, unreal match. Love him or hate him, he is the match to watch. Thanks to both players for great play! :thumbup:

(My friend took a ton of pic's that I hope to nab today, I will try to post some soon!)

I love colorful players! It makes the game SO much fun!!

Great report!!! Thanks.

Ray

JoeyA
10-24-2008, 11:08 AM
KoolKat9Lives,
I have to send you some rep. That was a very detailed accounting of the match and I appreciate it.
Thanks,
JoeyA

wahcheck
10-24-2008, 11:09 AM
Thanks much for the account of Earl's match. I am glad to see that Earl has not lost his touch. I am also one of those who love to watch him play....not so much because of his antics, but I just marvel at his stroke and finesse in playing pool, and I truly believe he was gifted to show how pool is supposed to be played....(from a technical standpoint, of course)......He stands among the best to have ever played this game, IMHO ............... however, that doesn't mean I admire his personality...

ftgokie
10-24-2008, 11:13 AM
WoW..thanks for that report....I always loved watching Earl play...he makes it fun to just watch......Thanks!

Kevin Lindstrom
10-24-2008, 11:20 AM
Did he pay the table time after he won the match??????????

In all seriuosness, thanks for this great post. I wanted to be at the open this year but am too busy with work. Would have loved to see this match in person. Hope you can get pictures to post of the equipment he was sporting.
He really is a spectacular player with a real nice stroke.

Kevin

The King
10-24-2008, 11:22 AM
Sounds like your enjoying yourself ... thank you for the write up on Earl... Glad you decided to go ...

Hail Mary Shot
10-24-2008, 11:40 AM
GO GIRL....I mean EARL !!!

rossaroni
10-24-2008, 11:46 AM
Earl, you sooo crazy!:speechless:

tigerseye
10-24-2008, 11:53 AM
[QUOTE=KoolKat9Lives]I come back and here's Earl shooting with a set of massive headphones on. Not music, just noise buffeting headphones, similar to those worn by airport ground crew. WTF? He is now a sight to behold with one sleeve rolled up with a weight on, anf the other further down and these huge earmuffs on. He goes a couple racks, missing nothing, saying nothing. The stroke, the movement, the play ... was the best and most electric and WOW that I have EVER witnessed.

Then, after he polishes off a 9, he turns to the crowd and momentarily pulls the headphones away from the ears. "You guys are the loudest crowd I have EVER heard! I can hear you through these things and I can't even hear a 747 through these!!!" He breaks dry and takes a seat and removes them, "man these things are hot to wear!". QUOTE]


LOL!!! Very well said kool kat.... I can just see him with those headphones on....LOL!!!
He is entertainment at it's best...=))

wahcheck
10-24-2008, 12:29 PM
if Earl wasn't participating at the U.S. Open, somehow it would be diminished by his absence.....glad he is still up for it.........

JimGinPhx
10-24-2008, 01:17 PM
Thanks for the blow by blow.Just knowing he's playing,you can imagine the madness and buzz he brings to any table.He is a truly GREAT player who livens up any tournament.Thanks again for the match highlights.

poolplayer2093
10-24-2008, 01:31 PM
that guy's rich with character all right. hay is he still using the mike g cue with the ob1 shaft?

metallicane
10-24-2008, 01:37 PM
Thanks for the post. My buddy called me and told me of the head phones too. We were cracking up. And the weight on the ankle moved to the arm. You could not make this stuff up.

KoolKat9Lives
10-25-2008, 08:18 PM
Here's the picture I had described in the OP. What I neglected to mention was the unusual grips he employs.

Someone is missing half their 9 iron! And their driver for his break cue.

Again, that was not only some great pool, but fantastic entertainment and a memory for life.

Great match Earl!

sjm
10-25-2008, 08:26 PM
Earl...starts his schpeal on current affairs, mostly about the jump stick. "No player here has any integrity! They support the jump stick. It's a gimmick!" I say to him "It certainly has changed the game but ya gotta believe there's too much money being made on the jump sticks to ever outlaw it."

Yes, and the three players that did more to popularize the jump shot in pool than any others were Earl Strickland, Sammy Jones and Pat Fleming. Earl must bear some of the responsibility for the emergence of jump cues.

poolcuemaster
10-25-2008, 09:50 PM
Yea but Earl just did it with his full length shooter.--Leonard

sjm
10-25-2008, 11:18 PM
Yea but Earl just did it with his full length shooter.--Leonard

Yes, you are correct, but the use of the full cue jump in nine ball was revolutionary twenty five years ago, and it gave rrise to a curiosity with jump shots at all levels of play, explaining the emergence and spread of the jump cue.

FYI, I know of somebody who hates the jump cue even more than Earl does, and that would be me.

softshot
10-26-2008, 12:33 AM
Ya gotta watch him. I watched him play Wednes and Thurs. The match yesterday vs Franklin Hernandez was something f'g else. Here's my highlights as I saw them railside.

He enters the Convention Center and stops among us common folk and starts his schpeal on current affairs, mostly about the jump stick. "No player here has any integrity! They support the jump stick. It's a gimmick!" I say to him "It certainly has changed the game but ya gotta believe there's too much money being made on the jump sticks to ever outlaw it." Earl: "It's not a different game! It's a gimmick game with too much luck! Whatever happened to kicking?! And whadaya mean it's about money!? Pool is DYING! I'm the only player with any integrity! I wear my passion on my sleeve!" .......

Off to the table... Franklin wins the lag. Earl is talking away and Franklin backs off his break stance, shoots a "you're starting real F'g early" look at Earl. Franklin breaks, and starts off strong with the first rack. Then Earl gets the next and then rack #3. As he walks around the table to move his second "ball-bead" over he's chatting away to anyone and everyone. I see him mistakenly move Franklin's second ball! The crowd is thick for this match, thicker than ANY so far, by multitides. Every seat taken within view, and 4 deep standing behind the rail.

Anyway, I believe I see Franklin get a quick look at Earls' error, but it was impossible to tell as his glance was so brief. I look around the crowd and maybe a couple others notice. Anyway, the crowd is not apparently supposed to say anything and no one does. Earl is still yapping away. Maybe 45 seconds pass while Frankin is just sitting there, not moving to rack, allowing Earl to hold court. Then Franklin gets up, takes his cue and wipes his ball back and marks up Earl's second. CLASS MOVE. I don't believe Earl ever even knew this occurred as he was busy at the time. :cool:

The play is EXCELLENT. The match progresses. Franklin plays great, and stays quiet and is a total gentleman. He plays way better than many/most that I watched over 2 days.


Then... Around rack 9, Earl lifts his right leg up and "Ripppppp", a velcro strip goes off and what appears to be an ankle weight is taken off and he quickly wraps it around his left elbow. "WTF?" Someone says he wore a waist weight belt recently to "remind him to stay down". :confused: Play goes back and forth, and Earl maintains @ a 2-3 game lead. I step over to the other side of the center to check with a friend on the Robles/Souquet match.

I come back and here's Earl shooting with a set of massive headphones on. Not music, just noise buffeting headphones, similar to those worn by airport ground crew. WTF? He is now a sight to behold with one sleeve rolled up with a weight on, anf the other further down and these huge earmuffs on. He goes a couple racks, missing nothing, saying nothing. The stroke, the movement, the play ... was the best and most electric and WOW that I have EVER witnessed.

Then, after he polishes off a 9, he turns to the crowd and momentarily pulls the headphones away from the ears. "You guys are the loudest crowd I have EVER heard! I can hear you through these things and I can't even hear a 747 through these!!!" He breaks dry and takes a seat and removes them, "man these things are hot to wear!".

It's about 9-6 Earl when a most interesting thing happened. Earl gets hooked. The OB is the 7 and it's about 5 inches from the mouth of the side. The 9 is 18 inches away in direct line of the cue which is @ 12 inches from the 9. A basic jump shot.... Earl walks over to his break stick and looks at it (mind you it has an Elkmaster tip on it). He looks, and pauses a few seconds, and turns around. He mutters something, walks back to the table, and lightly kicks the cue off the opposite long rail and drops the 7 in, in perfect po for the 8. HUGE applause. Game over.

Last note for now... I believe it is Case game now. The 2 is in the corner jaws on the foot. The cue is frozen on the head rail. He jacks up over 45 degrees and hammers the 2 in, and whitey pulls back a foot or so without hitting a rail. Perfect shape.

UnF'g real play, unreal match. Love him or hate him, he is the match to watch. Thanks to both players for great play! :thumbup:

(My friend took a ton of pic's that I hope to nab today, I will try to post some soon!)


sounds alot like the Harlem Globe Trotters....

does this guy lose to Earl every night in every city?

suckershot
10-26-2008, 12:37 AM
that guy's rich with character all right. hay is he still using the mike g cue with the ob1 shaft?

Gulyassy cue = yes
OB1 = a resounding no

I think it was the IPT match he played with Archer where he said the OB1 was not the cue (shaft) for him.

Also, at the Pool School that I attended at Shoreline, another player was using an OB1. As Earl was helping said player with his bridge, he noticed the OB1 shaft and said, "Ooohhh...shooting with an OB1 <making a face almost like sucking on a lemon>...<chuckle> that's a hard cue to get used to..."

True story. :)

But I guarantee you if you talk to him about cues, he'll be more than happy to let you know how superior his cue is. He'll tell you all you want to know. I can't remember all the specifics, but I know he said he had a 12.8 mm shaft with the taper pulled back to something like 20 inches. Elkmaster tip. Can't remember the weight. Tennis wrap around bottom, oh, 1/3 of the cue...could see exposed wrap section where it was clear he had taken off whatever original wrap there was. He encouraged us to try out his cue, but to make certain to chalk before every shot. BTW, I should note, according to the picture that KoolKat posted above, the cue I saw must've been retired, as the cue pictured is not the cue he had at our Pool School.

Not surprisingly, nearly all of the guys who tried it proclaimed it a really nice hitting cue and interesting and such. IMO that was more a product of whose cue it was rather than the actual cue itself. But Earl himself told him the reason we couldn't do the massive spin/stroke shot that he does for kicks is because we're not playing with a cue like his. I found this to be really entertaining.

suckershot
10-26-2008, 01:05 AM
Since we're talking about Earl, I have another story from our Pool School that I think is quite funny.

So while our Pool School was happening, a local player who plays pretty sporty happens to be there practicing on the tightest table in the room; very tough 4.25 pockets. During a break in our school, Earl's walking to the front of the room, right by said player and table. Earl says to local player "hey, have you tried my shot yet?" Player says "no, set it up for me".

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AaiV1BOHV2COFo4DOaM4PYVV4UaiV1UcQp4kYVV4kaim1kR to2kbNj4kIfj4kbpt4kOXR@

So Earl sets it up (as shown), and local player tries it a few times with no luck. Sorry, couldn't figure out the cue ball showing where to hit, so if it's not evident from the layout, this is an EXTREME spin shot to go around the balls (I can't remember the exact placement of the obstacle balls, but you get the picture). Either he can't get the spin, make the ball, or both.

At this point, Earl says "Let me try with your cue." Player hands over his cue, a South West. Earl gives it a whirl a few times, and has the same problem; either he can't get the spin, make the ball, or both. Earl inspects the tip as a modest crowd of maybe 8 are looking on. Earl says "Who put this tip on for you? I don't think they did it right, it doesn't seem like it's glued on properly." Player points to local room tip replacement guy, who is standing in close proximity. Earl chuckles, then says "well, I guess I'm not doing him any favors, am I?"

Earl chalks up vigorously, then proceeds to give it the old college try a few more times. After approximately 3-4 more tries, he finally nails it and gets the spin to go around all the balls. So on a tough table, with an unfamiliar cue, he nailed it after not more than 10 tries at most. Clapping ensues.

Earl, clearly proud of himself, turns the cue around offering the butt end out toward local player. As he does this, he says "that's not a bad cue and I just proved it!"

AnitoKid
10-26-2008, 06:10 AM
Much thanks for the report!

:)

TX Poolnut
10-26-2008, 06:14 AM
Does anyone else see the irony of Earl complaining about gimmicks while wearing an elbow brace, headphones, ankle weights, pool glasses, or forearm pads?

Craig Fales
10-26-2008, 06:21 AM
Ya gotta watch him. I watched him play Wednes and Thurs. The match yesterday vs Franklin Hernandez was something f'g else. Here's my highlights as I saw them railside.

He enters the Convention Center and stops among us common folk and starts his schpeal on current affairs, mostly about the jump stick. "No player here has any integrity! They support the jump stick. It's a gimmick!" I say to him "It certainly has changed the game but ya gotta believe there's too much money being made on the jump sticks to ever outlaw it." Earl: "It's not a different game! It's a gimmick game with too much luck! Whatever happened to kicking?! And whadaya mean it's about money!? Pool is DYING! I'm the only player with any integrity! I wear my passion on my sleeve!" .......

Off to the table... Franklin wins the lag. Earl is talking away and Franklin backs off his break stance, shoots a "you're starting real F'g early" look at Earl. Franklin breaks, and starts off strong with the first rack. Then Earl gets the next and then rack #3. As he walks around the table to move his second "ball-bead" over he's chatting away to anyone and everyone. I see him mistakenly move Franklin's second ball! The crowd is thick for this match, thicker than ANY so far, by multitides. Every seat taken within view, and 4 deep standing behind the rail.

Anyway, I believe I see Franklin get a quick look at Earls' error, but it was impossible to tell as his glance was so brief. I look around the crowd and maybe a couple others notice. Anyway, the crowd is not apparently supposed to say anything and no one does. Earl is still yapping away. Maybe 45 seconds pass while Frankin is just sitting there, not moving to rack, allowing Earl to hold court. Then Franklin gets up, takes his cue and wipes his ball back and marks up Earl's second. CLASS MOVE. I don't believe Earl ever even knew this occurred as he was busy at the time. :cool:

The play is EXCELLENT. The match progresses. Franklin plays great, and stays quiet and is a total gentleman. He plays way better than many/most that I watched over 2 days.


Then... Around rack 9, Earl lifts his right leg up and "Ripppppp", a velcro strip goes off and what appears to be an ankle weight is taken off and he quickly wraps it around his left elbow. "WTF?" Someone says he wore a waist weight belt recently to "remind him to stay down". :confused: Play goes back and forth, and Earl maintains @ a 2-3 game lead. I step over to the other side of the center to check with a friend on the Robles/Souquet match.

I come back and here's Earl shooting with a set of massive headphones on. Not music, just noise buffeting headphones, similar to those worn by airport ground crew. WTF? He is now a sight to behold with one sleeve rolled up with a weight on, anf the other further down and these huge earmuffs on. He goes a couple racks, missing nothing, saying nothing. The stroke, the movement, the play ... was the best and most electric and WOW that I have EVER witnessed.

Then, after he polishes off a 9, he turns to the crowd and momentarily pulls the headphones away from the ears. "You guys are the loudest crowd I have EVER heard! I can hear you through these things and I can't even hear a 747 through these!!!" He breaks dry and takes a seat and removes them, "man these things are hot to wear!".

It's about 9-6 Earl when a most interesting thing happened. Earl gets hooked. The OB is the 7 and it's about 5 inches from the mouth of the side. The 9 is 18 inches away in direct line of the cue which is @ 12 inches from the 9. A basic jump shot.... Earl walks over to his break stick and looks at it (mind you it has an Elkmaster tip on it). He looks, and pauses a few seconds, and turns around. He mutters something, walks back to the table, and lightly kicks the cue off the opposite long rail and drops the 7 in, in perfect po for the 8. HUGE applause. Game over.

Last note for now... I believe it is Case game now. The 2 is in the corner jaws on the foot. The cue is frozen on the head rail. He jacks up over 45 degrees and hammers the 2 in, and whitey pulls back a foot or so without hitting a rail. Perfect shape.

UnF'g real play, unreal match. Love him or hate him, he is the match to watch. Thanks to both players for great play! :thumbup:

(My friend took a ton of pic's that I hope to nab today, I will try to post some soon!)
All this and no f'g pics to put in my sig line with a witty caption?

Rick S.
10-26-2008, 07:43 AM
But I guarantee you if you talk to him about cues, he'll be more than happy to let you know how superior his cue is. He'll tell you all you want to know. I can't remember all the specifics, but I know he said he had a 12.8 mm shaft with the taper pulled back to something like 20 inches. Elkmaster tip. Can't remember the weight. Tennis wrap around bottom, oh, 1/3 of the cue...could see exposed wrap section where it was clear he had taken off whatever original wrap there was. He encouraged us to try out his cue, but to make certain to chalk before every shot. BTW, I should note, according to the picture that KoolKat posted above, the cue I saw must've been retired, as the cue pictured is not the cue he had at our Pool School.

Not surprisingly, nearly all of the guys who tried it proclaimed it a really nice hitting cue and interesting and such. IMO that was more a product of whose cue it was rather than the actual cue itself. But Earl himself told him the reason we couldn't do the massive spin/stroke shot that he does for kicks is because we're not playing with a cue like his. I found this to be really entertaining.


Hmmm...That's the same cue in the photo he's been using for quite some time now. He was using it for the Desert Shootout back in July, and also for the first pool school at Kolby's here in Az.

Earl is an experimenter, as everyone knows quite well. And he LOVES tape, whether it's golf, or pool. He has some in the bag, at all times.

You're right about the specs....I got one of his sticks (he had 2) when he was out here. Same exact set-up, only mine's black. Even has his name engraved in the butt.

That stroke shot is something else.....He still packs in the people! If you want to watch one of his matches, you best be there early to have any chance of sitting close enough to see anything.

He's simply amazing to watch....even after all these years.

Rick S.
10-26-2008, 07:56 AM
Does anyone else see the irony of Earl complaining about gimmicks while wearing an elbow brace, headphones, ankle weights, pool glasses, or forearm pads?

Elbow brace? Nah, never wore one.

Headphones are worn to drown out distactions form the audience. (Which he has many to deal with)


Ankle weights....he wears alot. Even while jogging 5 miles in the mornings. Sometimes he'll take one off his ankle, and put it on his bridge arm, to help keep it rock solid while shooting.

pool glasses...you can see the edge of the ball better. At 47 his eyes aren't what they used to be. Not to mention, he got paid to wear them.

gimmicks OFF the table are a little different than those used ON the table. (Jumpsticks)

bfdlad
10-26-2008, 08:56 AM
Here is the link to where you will be able to see Earl in November or attend one of the pool schools.
Earl does a great exhibition and although while on the road he does around 10 exhibitions along with Johnny Archer, Earl's show is never the same thing twice.
Earl gets up first and does around an hour of trick shots, stroke shots and stories from the road. Even though Johnny and I are fortunate enough to see Earl's Exhibitions all the time we still never know what he is going to do or say next and always end up sat off to the side somewhere watching the show carefully so as not to miss anything. I think that tells you alot about the talent Earl brings to each and every show. Anyway here is the link. http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=5870

suckershot
10-26-2008, 10:04 AM
Hmmm...That's the same cue in the photo he's been using for quite some time now. He was using it for the Desert Shootout back in July, and also for the first pool school at Kolby's here in Az.


Maybe he's had a few cues he's been switching between. The one he was using at our school was a slightly darker color wood, had a white tennis wrap, and no wrap underneath the tennis wrap. On the cue in the picture, you can see there is linen or something underneath the tennis wrap...on the cue I saw at our school, that small section between the tennis wrap and forearm was maple that had been exposed by removal of the original wrap.

suckershot
10-26-2008, 10:08 AM
And he LOVES tape, whether it's golf, or pool. He has some in the bag, at all times.


LOL...I forgot about this until now. Goodness, does he ever love surgical tape? I have never seen such huge masses of surgical tape until I saw Earl's fingers at the pool school. He must've wrapped the tape around his fingers 10 times at least, there was SO much tape on his fingers.

Tape notwithstanding, Earl was great and the primary reason I went to the pool school.

JB Cases
10-26-2008, 10:12 AM
Yea but Earl just did it with his full length shooter.--Leonard

That's not entirely true. Earl had a "jump cue" that was much shorter than his playing cue. We all know that a shorter cue makes jumping easier.

Everyone is fond of pointing out that he jumps with a full cue and he does some shots. But on other shots, at least through the Cuetec years, he had a shorter cue to jump with. I have seen him use it many times.

I don't know if he still has a cue like this, I'd presume so since he employed so much.

So please don't spread the falsehood that Earl Strickland doesn't use jump cues because he certainly did and probably still does.

JB Cases
10-26-2008, 10:16 AM
So apparently the no earplugs rule was tossed out?

Rick S.
10-26-2008, 10:26 AM
That's not entirely true. Earl had a "jump cue" that was much shorter than his playing cue. We all know that a shorter cue makes jumping easier.

Everyone is fond of pointing out that he jumps with a full cue and he does some shots. But on other shots, at least through the Cuetec years, he had a shorter cue to jump with. I have seen him use it many times.

I don't know if he still has a cue like this, I'd presume so since he employed so much.

So please don't spread the falsehood that Earl Strickland doesn't use jump cues because he certainly did and probably still does.

John...

Pretty sure that's not true...

I have never see Earl carry a short shaft.

I was his neighbor for 6 years, (thru Cuetec years) saw him play a LOT of pool. Tourny's and practicing, and I never saw one.

I just called him to ask, and got his voicemail. I will find out for sure, and let you know.

KoolKat9Lives
10-26-2008, 10:43 AM
So apparently the no earplugs rule was tossed out?

Not sure John. I know there was a no Ipod/music rule, but noise defeaters? If there was that rule, I wouldn't wanna be the ref to approach Earl. Nah, you tell him! :eek: :grin-square:

One "breach" that was pointed out to me by Jerry Forsyth while up in the "real-time scoring nosebleeds" :wink: was "someone" racking their own. It was not called. But that's a topic for another thread. The racking was horrendous. The Deschaine match actually stopped because after about 30 minutes NO ONE could get a satisfactory rack (even after the ref pounded the balls down). They waited for another table to open and abandoned table 7. Helfert surely has more insight on this as he was following our "main player" closely. I don't want to speculate as to how with all this new equipment they couldn't rack without such hassle.

Another breech was seen when a funny little guy was cruising around with a mini-dachsund inside the rails. :wink:

Pushout
10-26-2008, 10:44 AM
Love him or hate him, he's still one of the smoothest there is when he's on. If you've seen Earl play well, it's no wonder why he won the US Open five times.

Da Bank
10-26-2008, 11:51 AM
Earl is the greatest. He's crazy, but alot of the things he says are actually correct... he's just the only guy saying them.

No one is more talented in the history of the game, and after watching him play in person, meeting him, etc... I'm convinced of this.

If you had Johnny Archer or Efren Reyes' mentality combined with Earl's talent, he'd never ever be beaten. I really believe if you had that combo that the only way anyone would have a chance of beating him would be to flip for the break, winner breaks, and run literally every rack.

JB Cases
10-26-2008, 06:07 PM
John...

Pretty sure that's not true...

I have never see Earl carry a short shaft.

I was his neighbor for 6 years, (thru Cuetec years) saw him play a LOT of pool. Tourny's and practicing, and I never saw one.

I just called him to ask, and got his voicemail. I will find out for sure, and let you know.

Well, I did a double take the first time I ever saw him go back to his bag and get a shorter cue to jump with. As most of you know I am pro-jump cue since I was instrumental in introducing the Bunjee Jumper to the USA. I have heard the "Earl doesn't use jump cues" argument by anti-jump cue people for the last ten years.

He definitely had a shorter cue that he uses on some jump shots. It's not a 41" jump cue with a phenolic tip like most of today's jump cues are but it's much shorter than a regular cue. I don't know any of the other characteristics of it as I didn't go up and try to inspect it.

I think I have a video where Earl is playing Bustamante and he goes to the chair and gets this cue to make a jump shot, even as Billy Incardona is commenting on Earl's disdain for jump cues and watching earl grab another cue to perform a jump shot. I want to say I remember this because since seeing Earl use the shorter cue to jump with I have been looking for video proof and that video has it. I think it's one of the BCTV US Open videos posted on YouTube. I will look and see and if I find it I will post the link.

Even at that though the guy is one of, if not the, best in the world at jumping with a full cue. The thread is Earl, Love him or Hate him, and I admit to both. The guy is so insanely talented with a pool cue that it's magical. I guess sometimes with great talent something is not in balance the other direction, I don't know. I doubt his feats will ever be repeated.

JB Cases
10-26-2008, 06:26 PM
Well since I now 'have' to watch the Strickland - Bustamante match for research purposes I might as well share it with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTGMZVben94

Ok well, here it is, at 08:34 in the video you can clearly see Earl reposition his cues at his chair to be side by side standing at the same angle. The break (break/jump) cue is much shorter than his playing cue. At 08:50 the camera cuts to Earl sitting in the chair and the break-jump cue is about three inches shorter than the playing cue. Earlier in the match at 6:34 he used that cue to jump with and it was commented that he switched cues to shoot the jump shot. Incardona says he will jump with the "regulation cue" (meaning full sized) but he is incorrect that the cue is 59". It is indeed regulation as it is within the BCA/WPA rules but it is much shorter than 59" making it much easier to jump with.

At just before 34:36 he is using a cue that appears to be about five inches shorter than his playing cue to jump with. It may just be an illusion and be the same cue he used earlier in the match.

I am pretty sure that somewhere in the match it's easier to see this.

So there you have it. Earl doesn't use a phenolic tipped jump cue, these being the ones he rails against. But he does in fact use a shorter cue to jump with and break with. So I think that this should lay to rest all the Earl jumps with a full cue comments. Now you can say he jumps with a shorter cue that makes it easier to jump with. That coupled with his already insane talent is a deadly combination.

Ky Boy
10-26-2008, 06:29 PM
I'm not totally convinced that Earl's argument for aging and needing all the extra's to help him are true...


But I do believe there are not many people who could play as well as he does with all that stuff attached to them. I don't even like to wear my watch when playing let alone a weight on my arm weighing a couple of pounds or more.

There is NO other comparison for Earl's ability or entertainment. Pool is better with him than without him. At least I always watch when he is playing.

Gary

Jule
10-26-2008, 06:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLR9pAkGes4

In this video he uses a regular jump stick (right at the beginning).

Maybe he has finally given in?

JB Cases
10-26-2008, 07:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLR9pAkGes4

In this video he uses a regular jump stick (right at the beginning).

Maybe he has finally given in?

What a video! Earl is such a character. Unreal. After all that controversy he still gets up and runs out like it's nothing.

I have always said that the marriage of Earl Strickland's talent and the increase in available shots a modern jump cue offers would be fantastic. Maybe Mike Gulyassy, as a fellow world class player, was able to convince Earl of the merits of modern jump cues.

Of course in the video he chucks his across the room after he shoots.

KoolKat9Lives
10-26-2008, 07:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLR9pAkGes4

In this video he uses a regular jump stick (right at the beginning).

Maybe he has finally given in?

I am convinced Earl despises the jump stick. Whether he's used it a few times, used it sparingly, or used it for a short period and quit, I can't testify to.

All I know is, and like I mentioned in my original post, he had what I saw was a textbook shot to jump at the Open. He went to his "other" stick that he had out (I didn't pay attention to it - drats). He looked right down at it for a good 3 seconds and turned around and kicked the shot in.

If you were watching and paying attention there and then, Earl made his current viewpoint about jumpsticks abundantly clear. As a traditionalist in some regards, I agree in great part with him on this one.

JB Cases
10-26-2008, 07:32 PM
I am convinced Earl despises the jump stick. Whether he's used it a few times, used it sparingly, or used it for a short period and quit, I can't testify to.

All I know is, and like I mentioned in my original post, he had what I saw was a textbook shot to jump at the Open. He went to his "other" stick that he had out (I didn't pay attention to it - drats). He looked right down at it for a good 3 seconds and turned around and kicked the shot in.

If you were watching and paying attention there and then, Earl made his current viewpoint about jumpsticks abundantly clear. As a traditionalist in some regards, I agree in great part with him on this one.

He does despise it. Irrationally so. I am sure he hates himself every time he uses a shorter cue to jump with. However even he can't deny that it offers better performance on that aspect of the game. I tried to get him to sign an autograph saying he loves jump cues (tongue in cheek) and he wrote "I hate jump cues" on it.

People call themselves traditionalists when there is no clear tradition. If pool and billiards display anything it's constant change. What other sport has so many variations and so many rule and equipment changes in so short a span of time?

SJM is right - people like Earl popularized the jump shot and so it was only natural for inventors to try and perfect a jump cue. Charles Mignaud popularized the spin shot with the introduction of the leather tip and inventors have been working on that one for over a hundred years. If Pat Johnson is right and spin is all in the tip should we then ban the "perfect tip" when we find it just because it allows people to apply spin to the cueball better than something that was used 50 years ago?

Should we go back to maces and grass bumpers for rails? Pool is a game of evolution. Those that seek to selectively ban certain innovations based on "tradition" are on thin ice with that argument. The only tradition pool has is that it's played with balls and a stick on a table.

Craig
10-26-2008, 07:37 PM
Like or Hate the guy, past or present. He has/had more STROKE and run out ability than anyone to ever play the game.

Jay Helfert even said one time he made 9 footers look like bar boxes, at one time the guy was like a machine made balls from every where, he is the only person I have ever seen get out of line stay out of line and run rack after rack.

He truly had/has a gift from GOD to play pool. I wish I only had half his STROKE, pool friends you can't buy what Earl Strickland had/has that is the ability to play the game at the highest level of any human being alive.

If he would see a doctor and get his mind right he could and would still be a dominating player today. And this is just my opinion I mean nothing degrading by this.

I watch alot of his matches today versus yrs past and he plays much slower today than he did in yrs past there for I guess it creates BS in his mind, versus before he use to look like a race horse running around the table running out from every where, same as for Johnny Archer as well he use to run around the table running out from every where now he is like in slow motion.


All I can say Im glad I had the pleasure to see him play in his prime, and as long as he continues to play I will watch every match possible, some people including myself will never get the pleasure to know what it is like to play at the level Earl Strickland played at, at one time not even many Pro Players. The man has been a gift to the pool world.

travisw
10-26-2008, 07:56 PM
great write up koolkat, earl is a great character and it jsut keeps gettting better. Pretty soon he is going to look like Brian Urlacher out there with all his padding

suckershot
10-26-2008, 10:43 PM
Should we go back to maces and grass bumpers for rails? Pool is a game of evolution. Those that seek to selectively ban certain innovations based on "tradition" are on thin ice with that argument. The only tradition pool has is that it's played with balls and a stick on a table.

Probably the most sensible thing I've seen anyone post in a long time.

ccshrimper
10-27-2008, 04:28 AM
Jump cues make it too easy IMO. In the old days, only people with pretty fair strokes could jump, control the cue ball and make the balls. Now, D players can jump a ball and never learn how to kick while improving. What really used to impress me about the pros was their kicking. Now, I see a jump shot and think to myself "Half the people in here could make that shot". It takes away the defense of the game alot because anyone with a $100 jump cue can get out of your safe.

jay helfert
10-27-2008, 05:28 AM
Ya gotta watch him. I watched him play Wednes and Thurs. The match yesterday vs Franklin Hernandez was something f'g else. Here's my highlights as I saw them railside.

He enters the Convention Center and stops among us common folk and starts his schpeal on current affairs, mostly about the jump stick. "No player here has any integrity! They support the jump stick. It's a gimmick!" I say to him "It certainly has changed the game but ya gotta believe there's too much money being made on the jump sticks to ever outlaw it." Earl: "It's not a different game! It's a gimmick game with too much luck! Whatever happened to kicking?! And whadaya mean it's about money!? Pool is DYING! I'm the only player with any integrity! I wear my passion on my sleeve!" .......

Off to the table... Franklin wins the lag. Earl is talking away and Franklin backs off his break stance, shoots a "you're starting real F'g early" look at Earl. Franklin breaks, and starts off strong with the first rack. Then Earl gets the next and then rack #3. As he walks around the table to move his second "ball-bead" over he's chatting away to anyone and everyone. I see him mistakenly move Franklin's second ball! The crowd is thick for this match, thicker than ANY so far, by multitides. Every seat taken within view, and 4 deep standing behind the rail.

Anyway, I believe I see Franklin get a quick look at Earls' error, but it was impossible to tell as his glance was so brief. I look around the crowd and maybe a couple others notice. Anyway, the crowd is not apparently supposed to say anything and no one does. Earl is still yapping away. Maybe 45 seconds pass while Frankin is just sitting there, not moving to rack, allowing Earl to hold court. Then Franklin gets up, takes his cue and wipes his ball back and marks up Earl's second. CLASS MOVE. I don't believe Earl ever even knew this occurred as he was busy at the time. :cool:

The play is EXCELLENT. The match progresses. Franklin plays great, and stays quiet and is a total gentleman. He plays way better than many/most that I watched over 2 days.


Then... Around rack 9, Earl lifts his right leg up and "Ripppppp", a velcro strip goes off and what appears to be an ankle weight is taken off and he quickly wraps it around his left elbow. "WTF?" Someone says he wore a waist weight belt recently to "remind him to stay down". :confused: Play goes back and forth, and Earl maintains @ a 2-3 game lead. I step over to the other side of the center to check with a friend on the Robles/Souquet match.

I come back and here's Earl shooting with a set of massive headphones on. Not music, just noise buffeting headphones, similar to those worn by airport ground crew. WTF? He is now a sight to behold with one sleeve rolled up with a weight on, anf the other further down and these huge earmuffs on. He goes a couple racks, missing nothing, saying nothing. The stroke, the movement, the play ... was the best and most electric and WOW that I have EVER witnessed.

Then, after he polishes off a 9, he turns to the crowd and momentarily pulls the headphones away from the ears. "You guys are the loudest crowd I have EVER heard! I can hear you through these things and I can't even hear a 747 through these!!!" He breaks dry and takes a seat and removes them, "man these things are hot to wear!".

It's about 9-6 Earl when a most interesting thing happened. Earl gets hooked. The OB is the 7 and it's about 5 inches from the mouth of the side. The 9 is 18 inches away in direct line of the cue which is @ 12 inches from the 9. A basic jump shot.... Earl walks over to his break stick and looks at it (mind you it has an Elkmaster tip on it). He looks, and pauses a few seconds, and turns around. He mutters something, walks back to the table, and lightly kicks the cue off the opposite long rail and drops the 7 in, in perfect po for the 8. HUGE applause. Game over.

Last note for now... I believe it is Case game now. The 2 is in the corner jaws on the foot. The cue is frozen on the head rail. He jacks up over 45 degrees and hammers the 2 in, and whitey pulls back a foot or so without hitting a rail. Perfect shape.

UnF'g real play, unreal match. Love him or hate him, he is the match to watch. Thanks to both players for great play! :thumbup:

(My friend took a ton of pic's that I hope to nab today, I will try to post some soon!)

Great analysis here! I tried to give you rep but couldn't. So I'll do it on here. I was busy racking balls for another match, so I missed this one. Earl still has IMMENSE talent, just sometimes he fails to use it. Often he gives up during a match if he falls behind or something happens to bother him. He never used to do that.

JB Cases
10-27-2008, 05:35 AM
Jump cues make it too easy IMO. In the old days, only people with pretty fair strokes could jump, control the cue ball and make the balls. Now, D players can jump a ball and never learn how to kick while improving. What really used to impress me about the pros was their kicking. Now, I see a jump shot and think to myself "Half the people in here could make that shot". It takes away the defense of the game alot because anyone with a $100 jump cue can get out of your safe.

We have been down this road many times before. Jump cues don't make the shot. You might as well say that chalked leather tips make spinning the cueball too easy.

It's a tool designed optimally for the task. How well it is used is completely up to the skill of the user.

In the "old" days we used slower cloth which made jumping easier with SOME cues. Also jumping is easier on thicker slate.

As to the strategy aspect jump cues ADD to the game because they force people to play tighter safeties thus increasing overall skill level.

The facts are that a jump cue in the hands of a master like Earl is a deadly weapon (in many ways). In the hands of an amateur it's a weak band-aid. For both it's a tool that must be practiced with to get any kind of consistent and good results. Just like a "regular" pool cue.

sjm
10-27-2008, 05:46 AM
Should we go back to maces and grass bumpers for rails? Pool is a game of evolution. Those that seek to selectively ban certain innovations based on "tradition" are on thin ice with that argument. The only tradition pool has is that it's played with balls and a stick on a table.

Maybe we should just permit jump shots by scooping (very low hit with a level cue)? After all, by your assessment, there is nothing sacred in keeping our game comparable to the game played by players past, to make the accomplishments of today's pros somehow measurable against feats of players past. Perhaps one day a technological innovation in cuemaking will permit one to shoot right through an obstructing bal without jumping. Such an innovation, just like the advent of jump cues, would reduce the penalty for position poorly played. Any and every change might come along, but there will come a point where we should stop callking the game pool.

I don't think this matter as simple as you suggest. Innovations that compromise the basic skill set that ought to be required for success are a threat to our game.

worldison2
10-27-2008, 06:48 AM
Innovations that compromise the basic skill set that ought to be required for success are a threat to our game.

SJM,
I respectfully disagree. I really don't think the jump cue has threatened the game of pool, just added a little power to the offense.

I love my safety game in 9-ball (when I play pool I play so much safety that people say "when he comes to the table the World is on 2")

When that jump cue comes out, (from my opponents), I know that I have snookered them so badly that they have no other choice but to use it. But I'm thinking, "next time I have to do a better safety so they can't use that damned thing". It has made my safety game so much better.

That being said, look at "recent" other sports changes (some more successful than biliards):

Baseball: The DH rule, so controversial that one league still won't go with it. (but it sucks to see a pitcher at the plate, unless you're the Phillies last night)
Football: The NFL just went to the 2-point conversion.
Basketball: The 3-point shot.

Every sport evolves (mostly for more offense hence more excitement), and the traditionalists hate it, but that's life.

I consider the jump-shot a minor evolution.

JB Cases
10-27-2008, 08:33 AM
Maybe we should just permit jump shots by scooping (very low hit with a level cue)? After all, by your assessment, there is nothing sacred in keeping our game comparable to the game played by players past, to make the accomplishments of today's pros somehow measurable against feats of players past. Perhaps one day a technological innovation in cuemaking will permit one to shoot right through an obstructing bal without jumping. Such an innovation, just like the advent of jump cues, would reduce the penalty for position poorly played. Any and every change might come along, but there will come a point where we should stop callking the game pool.

I don't think this matter as simple as you suggest. Innovations that compromise the basic skill set that ought to be required for success are a threat to our game.

If you want to keep the game "sacred" then play only one game and go with the earliest set of rules. You like 14.1 don't you? That's a sacred game to many. Originally it was called Continuous pool because the way it was played was to rack all 15 balls and the blast it wide open and run out that way until you missed. Then the rules were changed to leave out the 15th ball and use it as a break ball. What a penalty for all those who worked so hard on their blast break. Now they had to learn a who new set of shots centered around the "break ball" and the new strategies that this brought with it. Now the game you cherish is called 14.1 Continuous and is a better game than the old Continuous Pool I think you would agree.

If the jump cue as we know it now had come into existence 50 years ago then it would be considered "traditional" today. There wouldn't be any debate on whether it belongs in the game or not.

How much did the leather tip change the "skillset"? Like the jump cue it added a vast range of shots to the game. A chalked leather tip by itself does not draw the cueball three rails for position. The person holding the cue does and could NEVER do it no matter how much stroke they possess WITHOUT a chalked leather tip on their cue. Without the tip that possibility is gone. With it they have the fullest possible range of ball interactions that their skill level can achieve.

The jump cue is nothing different. It is a particular construction that tackles one aspect of the game. But by itself it is inert and does nothing. In the hands of a skilled artist it allows amazing shots. In the hands of the inept it is nothing more than a sellout generator.

It's funny that it's not the jump shot itself that people take issue with but the cue. I can only imagine the anti-tip articles that must have come out in 1857 (or whenever) when "English" Jack Carr toured the country showing off the great things he could do with the cueball using a leather tipped cue. Or, it could have been that the best of the time couldn't wait to try the new "tip" and see what they could do with it.

The jump cue does increases the basic skill set by increasing the range of possible shots. To get to those shots though one needs a jump cue and the skill to achieve them. I can never do what Semih Sayginer, Mike Massey or Earl Strickland can do even if you hand me their cues. However if you hand them my jump cue they can more with it than I could dream of. Strickland is pissed for the wrong reasons. He is upset because someone invented a cue that makes jumping easier when he worked hard to learn to do it.

Yes he did develop a stroke and the technique to be able to jump better than most with a full cue. So have many others. But the thing is that as good as they are with a full cue they are still quite limited in the range of possible shots just as someone who has the greatest stroke in the world but no tip is limited in what they can do with the cueball. An APA 5 from 2008 would beat the 1800 world champion in any pocket billiards game because of the tip. However, give the 1800 World Champ a few months to practice with the same equipment and his natural ability would quickly surpass the APA 5's.

Lastly the jump shot and subsequently the jump cue are a product of rules that promote the need for such a shot. Again, going back to the tradition argument, the current rules of professional nine ball which not 30 years old themselves, have a clear need for the jump shot and as such, in my view, also the jump cue.

JimGinPhx
10-27-2008, 08:59 AM
I think the game would be much more interesting if it was played strictly on the tables surface.Billiards shows such beautiful patterns ,angles and imagination, if you like the game for the way I think it was meant to be played.The jump shot brings a gimmick into the game.When you lock your opponent in jail,imagination is the only way out.The jump shot eliminates the imagination.The diamonds on the table are there for a reason,not just to keep score.

JB Cases
10-27-2008, 10:18 AM
I think the game would be much more interesting if it was played strictly on the tables surface.Billiards shows such beautiful patterns ,angles and imagination, if you like the game for the way I think it was meant to be played.The jump shot brings a gimmick into the game.When you lock your opponent in jail,imagination is the only way out.The jump shot eliminates the imagination.The diamonds on the table are there for a reason,not just to keep score.

What is imaginative about using markers on the table to figure the angles. Wouldn't the game be more challenging without the diamonds and a plethora of "diamond systems" to make kicking easy?

You don't think it takes some imagination and physical dexterity to perform a jump shot? Let's compare then:

To make a shot with no blocking ball you have to find the corerct aiming line, you have to decide on the proper speed, you have to decide on the proper spin to use, then you have to execute it with a perfect stroke.

To make a shot that is blocked using a kick shot, you have to find the correct approach angle, decide on the proper speed, decide on the proper spin, then execute it with a straight stroke.

To make shot that is blocked using a jump shot you have to find the correct aiming line, you have to find the correct elevation, decide on the proper force to use, decide on the proper spin to apply, and then execute it from an uncomfortable position.

Seems to me that in both jumping and kicking there are extra elements. And in Kicking there are plenty of systems to help you figure them out. In jumping the only thing that helps you to becoming proficient at it is practice. I know plenty of folks who suck at jump shots even though they have great jump cues. They miss the object ball, jump the cueball off the table, or completely sell out more often than they succeed.

If the jump shot itself is a gimmick then blame Earl Strickland for making young pool players like me want to be able to do it. Blame the people who made the rules for making it a necessity.

If you truly understand the game the game then you appreciate the difficulty and beauty of a well played jump shot as much as you would any other shot.

ribdoner
10-27-2008, 10:29 AM
IMO we've seen a kinder, gentler EARL the last year or so

KoolKat9Lives
10-27-2008, 10:36 AM
Blame the people who made the rules for making it a necessity. [QUOTE=JB Cases]

I blame the world. Seems to work for me. ;)

[QUOTE=JB Cases]If you truly understand the game the game then you appreciate the difficulty and beauty of a well played jump shot as much as you would any other shot.

I do appreciate a great jump shot. I go "OMG" every time someone knocks down a nice jump. It is a learned skill and an art. I watched The Truth practicing some jumps that were awe inspiring.

We all know this specific advent meets different people differently. My viewpoint is currently a selfish one. As someone that just got back into the game last year (after a whopping 2 year career at age 16-17), and discovered the necessity of jumping, I am slow to embrace it. I lost ground. I have made @ 4 jump shots in small money matches, and never one in competition.

I may be resistant, but I'm not stupid. Today's practice will include jumping. It's a skill that I can't do without at my level.

Rick S.
10-27-2008, 10:49 AM
That's not entirely true. Earl had a "jump cue" that was much shorter than his playing cue. We all know that a shorter cue makes jumping easier.

Everyone is fond of pointing out that he jumps with a full cue and he does some shots. But on other shots, at least through the Cuetec years, he had a shorter cue to jump with. I have seen him use it many times.

I don't know if he still has a cue like this, I'd presume so since he employed so much.

So please don't spread the falsehood that Earl Strickland doesn't use jump cues because he certainly did and probably still does.


Just got off the phone with Earl....he said he's NEVER had a 'short' shaft that's used for jumping. And that 'someone was full of $#%#.

He uses his break stick, with a full length shaft, for full cue jumps.

However, he does carry a jumpstick now. You can count the amount of times he's used it on one hand.

He came down with the Flu halfway thru the tourny, and still sounds terrible.

He attributes one his losses to the jumpstick. He said Cory made a wild shot with it, at a crucial time in the match.

The jump stick is purely a gimmick, and degrades the game. Plain, and simple.

KoolKat9Lives
10-27-2008, 12:07 PM
Just got off the phone with Earl....he said he's NEVER had a 'short' shaft that's used for jumping. And that 'someone was full of $#%#.

He uses his break stick, with a full length shaft, for full cue jumps.

However, he does carry a jumpstick now. You can count the amount of times he's used it on one hand.

He came down with the Flu halfway thru the tourny, and still sounds terrible.

He attributes one his losses to the jumpstick. He said Cory made a wild shot with it, at a crucial time in the match.

The jump stick is purely a gimmick, and degrades the game. Plain, and simple.

Thanks for getting up with Earl and sharing it straight on. I know you guys are long, long time friends and I trust this info as solid. Vouched.

Bigtruck
10-27-2008, 12:30 PM
I think the game would be much more interesting if it was played strictly on the tables surface.Billiards shows such beautiful patterns ,angles and imagination, if you like the game for the way I think it was meant to be played.The jump shot brings a gimmick into the game.When you lock your opponent in jail,imagination is the only way out.The jump shot eliminates the imagination.The diamonds on the table are there for a reason,not just to keep score.

Welcome to posting on the forum Jim!!

Well.....I differ with you Jim. This type thinking only limits your "outside the box" jump shots. I have used the diamonds on numerous occasion on a jump shot. The "jump kick"...ahhhh what a beauty.. 1,2,3 rail kick or shape off a ball. Jump cut.....Mmmmmm......tasty. Let's not forget the jump draw!!


Ray
(I'm going to go do some jump shots right now!)

ps. I'm also good at kicking! ;)

Hail Mary Shot
10-27-2008, 12:42 PM
since some people pointed out that pool is an evolving game, thus the influx of new innovative cue products and stuff came into the picture, then I guess the rules and nature of some pool games have to evolve as well.

such evolution and prohibition in some rules that will maintain the competitive and challenging nature of pool itself, thus separating highly competitive or professional pool from that of recreational or amateur pool.

if people could find or make a way to make pool a simple game, thus people could also find some way of making it more fun and challenging.

we already had seen rules such as no softbreaks, no breakcues beyond such limit, no jumpcues, shotclock, etc...etc... so it's just a matter of time when the organizers feel that jumping would be banned or have some form of restrictions or limit as to it's use. but for the moment, all those people could enjoy their jump cues til it's days are numbered.
this is as far as competitive pool is concerned.

as far a recreational pool is concerned, I dont care if they use it shot after shot, thus creating a new game of AIR POOL. lol.

Hail Mary Shot
10-27-2008, 12:49 PM
may I ask this, are jump cues allowed in snooker matches and 3Cs? :D :D :D

JimGinPhx
10-27-2008, 03:10 PM
I agree there is skill in the jump shot.However,pool is a game of angles,spin,masse,deflection etc.The skill and imagination required to get out of jams staying on the surface of the table,at a high level,to me is more impressive then a jump shot.To me,you don't have to be a good player to execute a good jump shot.A mediocre player can execute a good,or even great,jump shot.It's no different in golf.You don't have to be a great player to be a great putter.As equipment has evolved,games have evolved.If youv'e seen the tape of Efren and Earl playing nine ball,Efren plays safe and,inadvertently makes a ball and hooks himself.Efren looks at the routes he might go for a couple minutes,then KICKS two rails cross table,makes the object ball and brings down the house.Even Earl applauded.To me it makes the game more mentally challenging then just jacking up and jumping.

sjm
10-27-2008, 03:56 PM
I agree there is skill in the jump shot.However,pool is a game of angles,spin,masse,deflection etc.The skill and imagination required to get out of jams staying on the surface of the table,at a high level,to me is more impressive then a jump shot.To me,you don't have to be a good player to execute a good jump shot.A mediocre player can execute a good,or even great,jump shot.It's no different in golf.You don't have to be a great player to be a great putter.As equipment has evolved,games have evolved.If youv'e seen the tape of Earl locking up Efren playing nine ball,and Efren looking at the routes he might go for a couple minutes,then Efren KICKS two rails cross table,makes the object ball and brings down the house.Even Earl applauded.To me it makes the game more mentally challenging then just jacking up and jumping.

I agree 100%. I think the kick shot is the single most interesting shot in nine ball, and difficult kicks present problems that, in some cases, only the truly elite players can solve.

JB Cases
10-27-2008, 05:51 PM
I agree there is skill in the jump shot.However,pool is a game of angles,spin,masse,deflection etc.The skill and imagination required to get out of jams staying on the surface of the table,at a high level,to me is more impressive then a jump shot.To me,you don't have to be a good player to execute a good jump shot.A mediocre player can execute a good,or even great,jump shot.It's no different in golf.You don't have to be a great player to be a great putter.As equipment has evolved,games have evolved.If youv'e seen the tape of Earl locking up Efren playing nine ball,and Efren looking at the routes he might go for a couple minutes,then Efren KICKS two rails cross table,makes the object ball and brings down the house.Even Earl applauded.To me it makes the game more mentally challenging then just jacking up and jumping.

I agree that great shots elicit audience approval. The shot you refer to however is one in which Efren hooked himself and even if had a jump cue there was no way to jump it. Efren just wanted to hit the ball and he ended up making it.

A mediocre player can also execute a great kick shot. Tell me seriously you have never seen a B player flail at a kick shot and get lucky?

On top of that I have seen Tom Rossman teach B and C players how to make one, two, and three rail kick shots with consistency and accuracy in 5-10 minutes. There are diamond systems that anyone can learn to make those impressive kick shots. Not one of them makes the player who knows them Efren Reyes caliber just because they can make kick shots.

Some of the greatest pool shots in 9 and 10 ball have been jump shots as well. And there are no diamond systems to tell you how to judge jumping your cueball six feet into a six inch window and just how much force to apply and shooting with draw to make the cueball kill when it hits the table.

The jump shot is SO MUCH MORE than just bouncing the cueball. It's every pool shot you can think of PLUS another dimension. I am biased because I am so familiar with it. I am the kind of person that is never satisfied with the way things are. I have to understand everything about a subject when I sell it. This is why I studied the jump shot, it's history, the techniques, the underlying physics of it, why some cues are better than others, when it's applicable, it's impact on the game, and so on.

I can't change the mind of people like you and Stuart. That's fine. But I will campaign for the continued inclusion of a great innovation that extends the game of billiards and adds many more great shots that are yet unplayed.

Back to tradition; Billiards evolved as an indoor form of Croquet. Croquet has long employed the jump shot.

JB Cases
10-27-2008, 05:55 PM
I agree 100%. I think the kick shot is the single most interesting shot in nine ball, and difficult kicks present problems that, in some cases, only the truly elite players can solve.

And the same can be said for jump shots. Let's try it and see how it sounds;

I think that the jump shot is the single most interesting shot in nine ball and difficult jumps present problems that, in some cases, only the truly elite players can solve.

In both sentences it is clear that complex problems can only be solved (willfully) by elite players. Isn't that the whole thing right there. No problem solves itself in pool. The player wielding the cue, be it a 59" or a 41" cue is the one who must put it all together and execute the solution.

JB Cases
10-27-2008, 06:00 PM
may I ask this, are jump cues allowed in snooker matches and 3Cs? :D :D :D

The jump shot is not allowed in snooker as there is no need for it. There is no requirement to contact a rail in snooker and there is no ball-in-hand penalty other than shooting out of the D after a scratch.

There is also no need for a jump cue in 3-cushion. However a billiard player is probably allowed to use one if they choose to. I think billiard players understand that it's the player and not the cue that makes the shot far more than pool players do.

In billiards they have masse cues which are shorter fatter cues that make it easier to perform masse shots. I don't know if such cues are allowed in a standard 3 cushion match.

JB Cases
10-27-2008, 06:07 PM
Just got off the phone with Earl....he said he's NEVER had a 'short' shaft that's used for jumping. And that 'someone was full of $#%#.

He uses his break stick, with a full length shaft, for full cue jumps.

However, he does carry a jumpstick now. You can count the amount of times he's used it on one hand.

He came down with the Flu halfway thru the tourny, and still sounds terrible.

He attributes one his losses to the jumpstick. He said Cory made a wild shot with it, at a crucial time in the match.

The jump stick is purely a gimmick, and degrades the game. Plain, and simple.

I wouldn't expect Earl to say anything different. However I don't lie and my personal observations and the video link I posted backs it up. Nothing is PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Tell Earl to explain why he uses a shorter cue to break and jump with as was posted in the video.

And I don't care if he used the jump cue he has less than five times the fact is that he has one and he uses it. And not surprisingly the other video where he used it in the Mosconi Cup he pocketed the ball and kept running out which just goes to PROVE my point that a super talent like Earl with a jump cue is a deadly combination.

(also, just so you know, jump cues have full length shafts, most of them anyway)

sjm
10-27-2008, 06:18 PM
And the same can be said for jump shots. Let's try it and see how it sounds;

I think that the jump shot is the single most interesting shot in nine ball and difficult jumps present problems that, in some cases, only the truly elite players can solve.

In both sentences it is clear that complex problems can only be solved (willfully) by elite players. Isn't that the whole thing right there. No problem solves itself in pool. The player wielding the cue, be it a 59" or a 41" cue is the one who must put it all together and execute the solution.

Point well taken, but, in practice, few jump shots a) have right or left hand english on the cue ball, or b) have the cueball go to a rail before hitting the object ball, so the path of the cue ball all the way from beginning to end is nearly always linear.

With the kick shot, there are many more variables. English can a) create swerve on the way to the first rail, or b) change the way the cue ball goes off of each rail. Top spin or draw also affects the angle at which the cueball comes off the first rail. In addition, the speed at which the cueball hits the rails affects the angle, as well as the linearity, at which the cueball comes off the rails. Let's add that how the shooter accounts for and selects speed, english, and top/bottom orientation can make the object ball "bigger" or "smaller" for making a good hit. In addition, these choices can affect where the object ball can possibly be sent once hit. I believe that learning how to make the kind of decisions required in the nine-ball kicking game takes a pool lifetime.

For these reasons, while I concede that both the jump and the kick shot require skill, I feel the kick shot, on average, requires much more skill and much more knowledge than the jump shot to execute.

BigDaddyInc.
10-27-2008, 06:53 PM
i say they oughtta ban those dang $300 pie shaped x shaped low deflection, play like a pro shafts! LOL! sorry only kidding. I use deflection in my game i dont wanna lose it.

Rick S.
10-27-2008, 07:19 PM
I wouldn't expect Earl to say anything different. However I don't lie and my personal observations and the video link I posted backs it up. Nothing is PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Tell Earl to explain why he uses a shorter cue to break and jump with as was posted in the video.

And I don't care if he used the jump cue he has less than five times the fact is that he has one and he uses it. And not surprisingly the other video where he used it in the Mosconi Cup he pocketed the ball and kept running out which just goes to PROVE my point that a super talent like Earl with a jump cue is a deadly combination.

(also, just so you know, jump cues have full length shafts, most of them anyway)

Look at the video again.....it's a standard length shaft. When he puts it down, it's leaning, and there is a gap between the sticks, which make it look shorter. Believe me....it's not a short shaft.

You can tell when he's stroking the ball.....it's a 'normal' shaft.

I have one of his breaks sticks right here......a Cuetec, just like in the photo.

JimGinPhx
10-27-2008, 07:56 PM
I apologize for not stating correctly what led to Efren being locked up.Efren did play safe and inadvertently made a ball,hooking himself.Thanks for the correction.

JimGinPhx
10-27-2008, 08:07 PM
Thanks for the reminder by JB Cases of the situation with Efren hooking himself.I watched it a couple days ago.Da!

smoooothstroke
10-27-2008, 08:28 PM
I think Earl is good for pool.

I cannot condone his actions at times but he has to play by the rules just like everyone.

I don't love or hate the guy.In fact I do not like or dislike him.I think his actions are sometimes reprehensible but always entertaining.

I sense that he is showing his genuine personality more then just acting a part.

Big ego? Yes,Big game? Yes.

Absolutely I enjoy watching him,I don't think I would enjoy playing him.

burns420
10-27-2008, 08:29 PM
he looks like chuck norris.

JB Cases
10-27-2008, 09:04 PM
Hail Mary,

You are right. And the compliment to evolution is adaptation. Players will adapt to whatever rules are implemented and exploit them until the rules are changed again.

I wouldn't care if the jump shot were banned tomorrow. I will still keep playing pool and getting my enjoyment out of playing great when it happens. If they banned kick shots and allowed jump shots then I would feel the same way.

The point of all this is that there is very little consistency in pool and certain very little in the way of a tradtion to stand on.

I personally don't care. I brought out a cue that was already on the market, that had been developed by people much smarter than myself. What I did was play a part in popularizing it even more. To that end I studied it and understand it's not a gimmick but is instead a highly efficent tool that fills a need in the game as it's currently played. I made that tool a part of my busness and was very successful. Had the need not existed then the tool wouldn't have been invented.

Change the rules so that the jump cue is not needed and it will go away. To date though no one has successfully proposed rules that make more sense than the current ones and thus the jump shot and the attendant jump cue remain.

I doubt that jump cues are high on the agenda of the rules makers these days. I say however that if they ban the jump cue then they should also ban the jump shot from the game. Because it's a proven fact that some 59" cues are more suited to jumping balls than others. Take away the shot and it solves all equipment issues as well.

I also favor taking off the diamonds as well. Don't let those with knowledge of diamond systems have an unfair advantage over those who don't. On top of that we don't have any way to verify that all manufacturers place the diamonds in the same place. So eliminate them from table decoration and that will force the players to rely only on their own judgement when kicking balls.

JB Cases
10-27-2008, 09:10 PM
Look at the video again.....it's a standard length shaft. When he puts it down, it's leaning, and there is a gap between the sticks, which make it look shorter. Believe me....it's not a short shaft.

You can tell when he's stroking the ball.....it's a 'normal' shaft.

I have one of his breaks sticks right here......a Cuetec, just like in the photo.

I provided a breakdown of what I see in the video and of course took it into account that the cues might be leaning at different angles.

Look man, you are going to believe Earl and that's what I would expect a friend to do. I am quite familiar with the subject and know what a shorter cue is.

No one is talking about the length of the shaft, I don't know where you are getting that.

All I said is that he used a shorter cue for jumping. Which is clear to see in the video if you pay attention to the time markers I showed you.

The proof is on record and that's all there is to it. Read this post and pay attention to the markers I pointed out - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=1481613&postcount=38

When you have two cues side by side shaft to shaft standing at the same angle then it's clear if they are the same size or not. If they are propped at different angles then by definition they absolutely cannot be shaft to shaft as is seen here. It's impossible.

Rick S.
10-27-2008, 09:39 PM
I provided a breakdown of what I see in the video and of course took it into account that the cues might be leaning at different angles.

Look man, you are going to believe Earl and that's what I would expect a friend to do. I am quite familiar with the subject and know what a shorter cue is.

No one is talking about the length of the shaft, I don't know where you are getting that.

All I said is that he used a shorter cue for jumping. Which is clear to see in the video if you pay attention to the time markers I showed you.

The proof is on record and that's all there is to it. Read this post and pay attention to the markers I pointed out - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=1481613&postcount=38

When you have two cues side by side shaft to shaft standing at the same angle then it's clear if they are the same size or not. If they are propped at different angles then by definition they absolutely cannot be shaft to shaft as is seen here. It's impossible.

Proof my ass...Ask ANY pro if Earl has ever used a stick that's shorter than normal for breaking, or jumping. I'll guarantee you won't find one, anywhere. It's awfully strange you are the one and only guy who has ever made a statement like that.

YOU are the first guy to accuse him of that in what 20 something years? Have you EVER heard, or read anything about it? Has ANYONE else? If so, speak up.

I was with him for a bunch of tournys....I looked, and played out of his case on a few occasions. I have quite the collection of Earl memorabilia, including sticks. And none of them have been 'chopped off', on the top, or on the bottom.

Believe what you want, but don't start false rumors when you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Bigtruck
10-27-2008, 09:47 PM
I seem to remember Earl using a jump cue in a TV match somewhere......

Might have been the Mosconi Cup games. I remember being surprised after all the fuss he makes about them.

Ray

ps. That's a great match by the way. Earl vs Buste


edited to add: after watching the video, I'm convinced his break/jump cue IS shorter.

JB Cases
10-27-2008, 10:03 PM
Proof my ass...Ask ANY pro if Earl has ever used a stick that's shorter than normal for breaking, or jumping. I'll guarantee you won't find one, anywhere. It's awfully strange you are the one and only guy who has ever made a statement like that.

YOU are the first guy to accuse him of that in what 20 something years? Have you EVER heard, or read anything about it? Has ANYONE else? If so, speak up.

I was with him for a bunch of tournys....I looked, and played out of his case on a few occasions. I have quite the collection of Earl memorabilia, including sticks. And none of them have been 'chopped off', on the top, or on the bottom.

Believe what you want, but don't start false rumors when you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

I stated I saw it with my own eyes more than once. The most prominent was at the Windy City Open where I had front row seat to watch Earl's match.

I offered the video as proof of my personal observations. I welcome anyone else to analyze the video and explain the "seeming" difference in cue lengths.

The video only confirmed what I already knew.

As to why I bring this up? Because it's wrong for someone to rail against jump cues when he himself uses a cue that is "non-standard" for jumping balls. I am not going to ask Earl because he will deny it. This is the same guy that won five World Championships using a Cuetec and then said that Cuetec ruined his game. This is the guy who said horrible things about a sponsor that stuck by his side for 17 years until Earl's behavior became too much of a public relations nightmare.

And it's wrong for people to use Earl as an example of someone who jumps with "only" his playing cue when he in fact does not.

And for the record I find it really hard to believe that an equipment freak like Earl wouldn't use a shorter cue to jump with. A guy who puts extensions on his fingers is going to completely deny reality and allow his opponents a complete advantage over him when the solution to him retaining a clear advantage is only a few inches of cue length????

But that's neither here nor there. You can explain it away with camera angles but I think you know that what I am saying is correct. However there are plenty of people on this board who would love to see me proven wrong so go ahead and ask them to analyze the video. Get TAR in on it since they do video. I don't care. I will bet $100 that I am right and if anyone can prove that I am wrong about the cue that Earl used in the video link I provided then I will donate $100 to the AZ pro player fund.

Bigtruck
10-27-2008, 10:13 PM
There is a guy here in Texas that breaks with a 40" jump cue!

A little shorter break cue? Genius.

A longer Jump cue? Good for all but the very close jumps.

I like it! I'm having a three piece jump/break being made right now that is about 52" total.

Ray

Hail Mary Shot
10-28-2008, 01:31 AM
I also favor taking off the diamonds as well. Don't let those with knowledge of diamond systems have an unfair advantage over those who don't. On top of that we don't have any way to verify that all manufacturers place the diamonds in the same place. So eliminate them from table decoration and that will force the players to rely only on their own judgement when kicking balls.


I have no problem with this one being removed as well John. it's kinda funny though, since those diamonds had existed for the longest time that I could remember, yet most people couldn't perfect or take advantage of those drawn and pathed diagrams. in fact, most people (novice) nowadays are better at jumping rather than doing a one rail escape. guess the diamond system is the hard math.

JB Cases
10-28-2008, 02:36 AM
I have no problem with this one being removed as well John. it's kinda funny though, since those diamonds had existed for the longest time that I could remember, yet most people couldn't perfect or take advantage of those drawn and pathed diagrams. in fact, most people (novice) nowadays are better at jumping rather than doing a one rail escape. guess the diamond system is the hard math.

When you say "most" people I guess you are referring to the ones who haven't actually learned any kicking systems. Most novices I know aren't that far along yet. Jeez the lengths you people will go to to try and "prove" that one group of shots is "harder" than another is astounding.

I will tell you what. Let's take two people off the street and set up five jump shots from easy to hard and five kick shots from easy to hard. You get the best jump cue available and I will use Tom Rossman's books on kicking. I will bet a cool $1000 cash that if we both start from zero that in 30 minutes I will have my novice making all five kick shots in 3 tries or less while yours won't be able to make all five jump shots.

Bet???

Hail Mary Shot
10-28-2008, 03:06 AM
When you say "most" people I guess you are referring to the ones who haven't actually learned any kicking systems. Most novices I know aren't that far along yet. Jeez the lengths you people will go to to try and "prove" that one group of shots is "harder" than another is astounding.

I will tell you what. Let's take two people off the street and set up five jump shots from easy to hard and five kick shots from easy to hard. You get the best jump cue available and I will use Tom Rossman's books on kicking. I will bet a cool $1000 cash that if we both start from zero that in 30 minutes I will have my novice making all five kick shots in 3 tries or less while yours won't be able to make all five jump shots.

Bet???


how bout this one John, you can go to every pool room available and ask those who jump balls why they jump shots rather than kicking? and ask them which is easier. how about that? :thumbup: I assure you that the numbers don't lie.

another one, is that you set-up some random lay-outs where your novice student thinks of a way to kick out of it, without demonstrating to him how to do an escape. fair enough? :thumbup:

what you are saying is argumentative at it's best John. you said it yourself that you would need a book to learn such thing. the point is, most novices aren't that much interested in reading and learning kicking lay-outs but rather would automatically look for an easy way out. did I just said easy? what do I mean by that? oh yeah, one path/direction to go rather than going thru a lot of direction. as one commercial would point out, why walk when you can fly ! :D

JB Cases
10-28-2008, 04:08 AM
how bout this one John, you can go to every pool room available and ask those who jump balls why they jump shots rather than kicking? and ask them which is easier. how about that? :thumbup: I assure you that the numbers don't lie.

another one, is that you set-up some random lay-outs where your novice student thinks of a way to kick out of it, without demonstrating to him how to do an escape. fair enough? :thumbup:

what you are saying is argumentative at it's best John. you said it yourself that you would need a book to learn such thing. the point is, most novices aren't that much interested in reading kicking lay-outs but rather would automatically look for an easy way out. did I just said easy? what do I mean by that? oh yeah, one path/direction to go rather than going thru a lot of direction. as one commercial would point out, why walk when you can fly ! :D

You can play the psychology game and ascribe motivation to "novices" if you want to but it's a red herring. A novice will remain a novice if he/she doesn't avail themselves of the knowledge they need to advance.

I did say I would need a book to instruct the novices. Only because I haven't learned the diamond system well enough to teach it. Do you think that a complete novice will know how to jump precisely simply by having a jump cue in their hand?

Which direction do you consider is the one which has the cue aiming at the bed of the table? Having to learn and know which angle to hit the cueball at with the proper force and spin in order to land just right in the target area is easy to you?

Here goes arrogant John - I have more experience with this subject IN REAL LIFE - than just about anyone on this board. I have seen plenty of decent players who couldn't jump at all with a jump cue UNTIL they were instructed how to do it. And after they "got it" then they were able to continue to refine their new skill through practice and discovery.

You want to make it seem like kicking will die out if the jump cue is allowed. It won't because kicking is an essential part of playing pool. It's one aspect of the game that any serious player must know if they truly want to excel. Just as under modern rules they must also master the jump shot with all sizes of cues.

You don't have the numbers. I do from many many years on the road selling the jump cues. Maybe you never saw my pitch but it included a lot of kick shots, jump-kicks, jump banks, jump safes, etc....

I spent a lot of time learning to teach when I found out that it's not as easy as handing someone a jump cue and they give you a hundred bucks because they can instantly jump everything. If you ever spent an hour with me at one of these shows then you would change your outlook 180 degrees. I had to teach people to stand right, to stroke right, how to judge angles, how to kill the cueball, how to apply spin when jumping, how to practice. Some people needed to have their normal pool stroke corrected before they could even consider jumping so I did that too. Some people came to the booth thinking that jumping over Coke bottles was what it was all about and when they left they understood that it's a shot like any other that needs to be refined.

No different than the person who learns a kicking system and thinks that just contacting the ball is enough. That person will never go beyond into the realm of kicking that Stu (and me) finds so wonderful.

It's funny how the jump-cue opponents always use "novices" and their supposed habits to justify banning the cue. No one mentions the great shots that the pros make. No one applauds someone like Shawn Putnam who has taken precision jump shots to a new level. You only focus on the neophytes. You all know how hard it is to play high level pool under pressure. Imagine how tough it is for the pros when they are faced with a jump shot, be it "easy" or difficult. They know that even with all their practice it's still low percentage but it's a chance. The jump shot gives them this chance and the jump cue, like the leather tip, allows them to perform the shot as well as they are able to.

Focus on what the upper echelon are doing with the tool and not the bottom of the skill level range and you might then appreciate the real skill that goes into mastering this shot and the tool that enhances it.

Hail Mary Shot
10-28-2008, 06:02 AM
You can play the psychology game and ascribe motivation to "novices" if you want to but it's a red herring. A novice will remain a novice if he/she doesn't avail themselves of the knowledge they need to advance.

I did say I would need a book to instruct the novices. Only because I haven't learned the diamond system well enough to teach it. Do you think that a complete novice will know how to jump precisely simply by having a jump cue in their hand?

Which direction do you consider is the one which has the cue aiming at the bed of the table? Having to learn and know which angle to hit the cueball at with the proper force and spin in order to land just right in the target area is easy to you?

Here goes arrogant John - I have more experience with this subject IN REAL LIFE - than just about anyone on this board. I have seen plenty of decent players who couldn't jump at all with a jump cue UNTIL they were instructed how to do it. And after they "got it" then they were able to continue to refine their new skill through practice and discovery.

You want to make it seem like kicking will die out if the jump cue is allowed. It won't because kicking is an essential part of playing pool. It's one aspect of the game that any serious player must know if they truly want to excel. Just as under modern rules they must also master the jump shot with all sizes of cues.

You don't have the numbers. I do from many many years on the road selling the jump cues. Maybe you never saw my pitch but it included a lot of kick shots, jump-kicks, jump banks, jump safes, etc....

I spent a lot of time learning to teach when I found out that it's not as easy as handing someone a jump cue and they give you a hundred bucks because they can instantly jump everything. If you ever spent an hour with me at one of these shows then you would change your outlook 180 degrees. I had to teach people to stand right, to stroke right, how to judge angles, how to kill the cueball, how to apply spin when jumping, how to practice. Some people needed to have their normal pool stroke corrected before they could even consider jumping so I did that too. Some people came to the booth thinking that jumping over Coke bottles was what it was all about and when they left they understood that it's a shot like any other that needs to be refined.

No different than the person who learns a kicking system and thinks that just contacting the ball is enough. That person will never go beyond into the realm of kicking that Stu (and me) finds so wonderful.

It's funny how the jump-cue opponents always use "novices" and their supposed habits to justify banning the cue. No one mentions the great shots that the pros make. No one applauds someone like Shawn Putnam who has taken precision jump shots to a new level. You only focus on the neophytes. You all know how hard it is to play high level pool under pressure. Imagine how tough it is for the pros when they are faced with a jump shot, be it "easy" or difficult. They know that even with all their practice it's still low percentage but it's a chance. The jump shot gives them this chance and the jump cue, like the leather tip, allows them to perform the shot as well as they are able to.

Focus on what the upper echelon are doing with the tool and not the bottom of the skill level range and you might then appreciate the real skill that goes into mastering this shot and the tool that enhances it.


Speaking of the Pros, then tell me this. why is it that pros opt to jump over to pocket a ball rather than kick to pocket the ball, if you say that jumping has a low percentage or chance compared to kicking? if you could show me a young pro player that opted to pocket a ball using a 2-3 rail kick rather than using a jumpshot in a scenario where the player has a straight in jumpshot to pocket the ball, then consider me as one of your padawan learner, john almighty. :thumbup:

Rick S.
10-28-2008, 06:13 AM
Speaking of the Pros, then tell me this. why is it that pros opt to jump over to pocket a ball rather than kick to pocket the ball, if you say that jumping has a low percentage or chance compared to kicking? if you could show me a young pro player that opted to pocket a ball using a 2-3 rail kick rather than using a jumpshot in a scenario where the player has a straight in jumpshot to pocket the ball, then consider me as one of your padawan learner, john almighty. :thumbup:

It's like talking to a wall.....then again, what would you expect from someone in the 'business'.

If he really thinks it's that hard to jump a ball...he needs to go take lesssons from Robin D. She'll have Ray Charles jumping, AND making balls in under 3 minutes...guaranteed.

You know if he'll go as far as making up a Earl jumpstick story, there isn't any telling what's coming next.

Hail Mary Shot
10-28-2008, 06:25 AM
It's like talking to a wall.....then again, what would you expect from someone in the 'business'.

If he really thinks it's that hard to jump a ball...he needs to go take lesssons from Robin D. She'll have Ray Charles jumping, AND making balls in under 3 minutes...guaranteed.

You know if he'll go as far as making up a Earl jumpstick story, there isn't any telling what's coming next.

RAY CHARLES? ROFLMAO !!! :thumbup:

blueridge
10-28-2008, 06:37 AM
To me,you don't have to be a good player to execute a good jump shot.A mediocre player can execute a good,or even great,jump shot.

I don't many mediocre players who can consistently execute good jump shots let alone jump at all.

If youv'e seen the tape of Efren and Earl playing nine ball,Efren plays safe and,inadvertently makes a ball and hooks himself.Efren looks at the routes he might go for a couple minutes,then KICKS two rails cross table,makes the object ball and brings down the house.Even Earl applauded.To me it makes the game more mentally challenging then just jacking up and jumping.

I've seen it many times. It was the greatest pool shot ever. Still, this has nothing whatsoever to do with jump shots. A kick shot was the only option Efren had. There was no jump shot available. Furthermore, even Efren has started to shoot the jump shot in recent years, and he uses one of those awful jump cues that so many people hate. He did it twice in 1 match, I think it was against Earl in the 2005 US open. All this criticism against jump shots and jump cues is just plain stupid. You never hear golfers get criticized for using a sand wedge for getting out of a sand trap.

Hail Mary Shot
10-28-2008, 06:49 AM
It's like talking to a wall.....then again, what would you expect from someone in the 'business'.

If he really thinks it's that hard to jump a ball...he needs to go take lesssons from Robin D. She'll have Ray Charles jumping, AND making balls in under 3 minutes...guaranteed.

You know if he'll go as far as making up a Earl jumpstick story, there isn't any telling what's coming next.


I did mention young, right? so Earl wouldn't qualify. and besides, Earl finally realized how the jump cue made life easier for his opponent's getting out of tight situations. that alone is a testament in itself on why the jump cue was made for. why would you make a product that will make you lose games or make your life more difficult, right? doesn't seem logical at all.

Hail Mary Shot
10-28-2008, 07:25 AM
I don't many mediocre players who can consistently execute good jump shots let alone jump at all.



I've seen it many times. It was the greatest pool shot ever. Still, this has nothing whatsoever to do with jump shots. A kick shot was the only option Efren had. There was no jump shot available. Furthermore, even Efren has started to shoot the jump shot in recent years, and he uses one of those awful jump cues that so many people hate. He did it twice in 1 match, I think it was against Earl in the 2005 US open. All this criticism against jump shots and jump cues is just plain stupid. You never hear golfers get criticized for using a sand wedge for getting out of a sand trap.

the question is why you use the sand wedge rather than the putter,wood, other wedges and irons? you can use those putters, wood, other wedges and irons to get around the sandtrap but golfers opt not to use them. the obvious reason is not to make your life difficult by getting out easily using the sand wedge. I hope you wont say that a golfer must possess some good sand jumping skills since using a sand wedge can be really challenging than using a putter roll or wood chop in a sandtrap. :D

JimGinPhx
10-28-2008, 12:00 PM
The point I was making about kicking vs jumping:you don't need a special cue to kick.You need knowledge of angles,drag,the rails,spin,weather conditions that could affect the rails etc.It takes a lot of practice ,knowledge and confidence to execute the kick.There are a lot of jump cues that make it pretty easy to be competent at jumping.Along with, it must drive room owners crazy to hear or see a person learning or practicng jumping on their tables.

GordonRamsay
10-28-2008, 12:06 PM
its funny how I see lots of people jumping over balls when there is an easy 2 cushion bank for the carom....from someone who is new to the sport... it's not that hard to figure out the correct angle...


maybe there needs to be a rule against it... like in snooker...heck if they can figure out and navigate a 12ft table to make a carom, there should be no excuse why you shouldn't on a 9ft or smaller.

i think lots of players (amateurs) like to do it because it just looks cool....which is the exact wrong way to go about applying a skill.



oh well... I never jump... except for a semi-masse every once in a while.

Rick S.
10-28-2008, 02:13 PM
I stated I saw it with my own eyes more than once. The most prominent was at the Windy City Open where I had front row seat to watch Earl's match.

I offered the video as proof of my personal observations. I welcome anyone else to analyze the video and explain the "seeming" difference in cue lengths.

The video only confirmed what I already knew.

As to why I bring this up? Because it's wrong for someone to rail against jump cues when he himself uses a cue that is "non-standard" for jumping balls. I am not going to ask Earl because he will deny it. This is the same guy that won five World Championships using a Cuetec and then said that Cuetec ruined his game. This is the guy who said horrible things about a sponsor that stuck by his side for 17 years until Earl's behavior became too much of a public relations nightmare.

And it's wrong for people to use Earl as an example of someone who jumps with "only" his playing cue when he in fact does not.

And for the record I find it really hard to believe that an equipment freak like Earl wouldn't use a shorter cue to jump with. A guy who puts extensions on his fingers is going to completely deny reality and allow his opponents a complete advantage over him when the solution to him retaining a clear advantage is only a few inches of cue length????

But that's neither here nor there. You can explain it away with camera angles but I think you know that what I am saying is correct. However there are plenty of people on this board who would love to see me proven wrong so go ahead and ask them to analyze the video. Get TAR in on it since they do video. I don't care. I will bet $100 that I am right and if anyone can prove that I am wrong about the cue that Earl used in the video link I provided then I will donate $100 to the AZ pro player fund.


Look at the video again....

At 8:31 Earl adjusts his stick...Puts it in the notch cut out of the arm in the chair. His other stick is resting against the back wall...a long way away from them being 'together' or side by side. Which explains the difference in length.

Same thing when he returns to the chair later on.....

Surely... out of the hundreds of hours of Earl video's you can find just one that shows him with a 'short stick'. Or a photo would work too.....or even ONE person besides yourself that knows about Earl's 'secret' stick.

Surely there has to be ONE person....? (OTHER than yourself)

Where you dream this shit up is beyond me...

JB Cases
10-28-2008, 04:53 PM
Speaking of the Pros, then tell me this. why is it that pros opt to jump over to pocket a ball rather than kick to pocket the ball, if you say that jumping has a low percentage or chance compared to kicking? if you could show me a young pro player that opted to pocket a ball using a 2-3 rail kick rather than using a jumpshot in a scenario where the player has a straight in jumpshot to pocket the ball, then consider me as one of your padawan learner, john almighty. :thumbup:

I didn't say that jumping has a low percentage compared to kicking. It's two distinctly different skill sets. The player at the table has to decide which of the two methods to get to the object ball he would prefer to use. Sometimes the kick shot is the better shot and sometimes it's the jump shot.

To be a good player under today's rules you need to have both shots in your arsenal.

I said that even with practice the jump shot is still low percentage. And of course this depends on the placement of the balls. Of course a ball hanging in the hole is high percentage to make it for an accomplished jumper as it is for an accomplished kicker as well. But even that brings up a point. If you have a ball sitting in the pocket and you can one rail kick it or jump it then your choice depends on position you need after you make it. If you need to stop the cue ball near the same pocket then you are wise to jump it with enough spin to perform a stop shot. If you need the cueball to travel down table then perhaps kicking it to thin the object ball is the better shot. Either way you two options.

punter
10-28-2008, 05:22 PM
As to why I bring this up? Because it's wrong for someone to rail against jump cues when he himself uses a cue that is "non-standard" for jumping balls. ........

And for the record I find it really hard to believe that an equipment freak like Earl wouldn't use a shorter cue to jump with. A guy who puts extensions on his fingers is going to completely deny reality and allow his opponents a complete advantage over him when the solution to him retaining a clear advantage is only a few inches of cue length????



I don't agree that if one complains about jump cues 'ruining the game', while at the same time using one himself, that it means he is hypocritical.

It more likely means that he understands, as you said, that not using one would put him at a disadvantage. He can still hold the opinion that jump cues are a sort of way to 'cheat' the skill of safety play and kicking skills. I'm guessing Earl probably feels that jumping takes some of the difficulty out of the game, and takes away some of the advantage he may have had if jump cues were not allowed.

JB Cases
10-28-2008, 05:39 PM
Look at the video again....

At 8:31 Earl adjusts his stick...Puts it in the notch cut out of the arm in the chair. His other stick is resting against the back wall...a long way away from them being 'together' or side by side. Which explains the difference in length.

Same thing when he returns to the chair later on.....

Surely... out of the hundreds of hours of Earl video's you can find just one that shows him with a 'short stick'. Or a photo would work too.....or even ONE person besides yourself that knows about Earl's 'secret' stick.

Surely there has to be ONE person....? (OTHER than yourself)

Where you dream this shit up is beyond me...

I did look at the video again. Who has more to lose by publicly accusing Earl Strickland of being a hypocrite on the jump cue issue? Earl or me? Earl could care less what people think as evidenced by his actions.

I am here every day though. My customers are here and my competitors are here. So I would be putting my reputation in serious jeopardy by making unfounded accusations like this.

But anyway, here are the frame by frame clips of what I consider to be the most telling part of the video along with my thoughts on what I see. Feel free to disagree with my analysis and let the audience decide who is right.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

At 8:27 Earl begins to reposition his cues. His left hand is holding the one not leaning against the chair.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1a.jpg

At 8:28 he has his arms around both cues.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1b.jpg

At 8:29 with his arms still around both cues he brings them into the chair.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1c.jpg

At 8:29 he removes his arms from around the cues and they appear to be leaning against the chair side by side at the same angle. One cue appears to be shorter than the other one.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1d.jpg

At 8:30 Earl's arms are folded in his lap and the cues are in the same position with one clue clearly shorter than the other.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1e.jpg

At 8:50 The camera cuts to Earl after Bustamante's break. The closeup shows two cues that appear to be standing side by side at the same angle with one clearly shorter than the other. Here I assume that Earl has not moved the cues that he repositioned at 8:30 since they appear to be in the same place relative to his body. Certainly it's a stretch to say that one of these cues is on the back wall or several feet away.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1f.jpg

And lastly, At 34:36 here is another shot of Earl in the chair with two cues in close proximity standing at nearly the same angle where one appears to be about five inches shorter than the other one.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue2.jpg

So I welcome correction and will publicly apologize and edit my comments regarding my contention that Earl used a shorter cue to jump with if you can provide an analysis of this video evidence that the AZ community can agree refutes mine. I still stand by what I personally witnessed but that will always be suspect because of the fact that I sell jump cues.

JB Cases
10-28-2008, 05:44 PM
I don't agree that if one complains about jump cues 'ruining the game', while at the same time using one himself, that it means he is hypocritical.

It more likely means that he understands, as you said, that not using one would put him at a disadvantage. He can still hold the opinion that jump cues are a sort of way to 'cheat' the skill of safety play and kicking skills. I'm guessing Earl probably feels that jumping takes some of the difficulty out of the game, and takes away some of the advantage he may have had if jump cues were not allowed.

I can agree with this. But it does take the air out of using Earl as the poster-boy for banning jump cues using the reasoning that he "does it with a full cue" when he, in fact, does not.

KoolKat9Lives
10-28-2008, 05:51 PM
I can agree with this. But it does take the air out of using Earl as the poster-boy for banning jump cues using the reasoning that he "does it with a full cue" when he, in fact, does not.

Are they any other accomplished pro's out there that are firmly against the jump cue being used in the game? I would guess the answer is yes, although naturally, he/she may be hesitant to go on the record for fear of sponsorship issues.

Is there any accomplished pro out there that uses a jump cue less than Earl? I would guess the answer is no.

Just wonderin'.

JoeyA
10-28-2008, 05:57 PM
I did look at the video again. Who has more to lose by publicly accusing Earl Strickland of being a hypocrite on the jump cue issue? Earl or me? Earl could care less what people think as evidenced by his actions.

I am here every day though. My customers are here and my competitors are here. So I would be putting my reputation in serious jeopardy by making unfounded accusations like this.

But anyway, here are the frame by frame clips of what I consider to be the most telling part of the video along with my thoughts on what I see. Feel free to disagree with my analysis and let the audience decide who is right.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

At 8:27 Earl begins to reposition his cues. His left hand is holding the one not leaning against the chair.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1a.jpg

At 8:28 he has his arms around both cues.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1b.jpg

At 8:29 with his arms still around both cues he brings them into the chair.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1c.jpg

At 8:29 he removes his arms from around the cues and they appear to be leaning against the chair side by side at the same angle. One cue appears to be shorter than the other one.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1d.jpg

At 8:30 Earl's arms are folded in his lap and the cues are in the same position with one clue clearly shorter than the other.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1e.jpg

At 8:50 The camera cuts to Earl after Bustamante's break. The closeup shows two cues that appear to be standing side by side at the same angle with one clearly shorter than the other. Here I assume that Earl has not moved the cues that he repositioned at 8:30 since they appear to be in the same place relative to his body. Certainly it's a stretch to say that one of these cues is on the back wall or several feet away.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue1f.jpg

And lastly, At 34:36 here is another shot of Earl in the chair with two cues in close proximity standing at nearly the same angle where one appears to be about five inches shorter than the other one.
http://www.jbcases.com/strickland/strickland-shortcue2.jpg

So I welcome correction and will publicly apologize and edit my comments regarding my contention that Earl used a shorter cue to jump with if you can provide an analysis of this video evidence that the AZ community can agree refutes mine. I still stand by what I personally witnessed but that will always be suspect because of the fact that I sell jump cues.

It is obvious to me that there is a hole in the ground where the cue on the right is located. It may be a drain hole or just some missing foundation but by golly there's a hole in the ground and that is why the cue looks like it is shorter.JoeyA

punter
10-28-2008, 06:13 PM
It is obvious to me that there is a hole in the ground where the cue on the right is located. It may be a drain hole or just some missing foundation but by golly there's a hole in the ground and that is why the cue looks like it is shorter.JoeyA


I was there, and noticed the hole too. :grin:

nichollss
10-28-2008, 06:28 PM
I believe the shorter cue is his playing cue, not the break / jump cue. The reason I say this is I always thought that Earl played with a longer cue, well I was in Atlanta a few years back at the Pool Room in Marietta (before Johnny bought it) and I saw these two cues beside each other and you could see the difference it length, just like the pictures. So I asked Earl why he played with a longer cue. He said he didn't. The longer cue was a standard length cue and the shorter one was his playing cue. I was shocked that he played with one shorter. I started looking at the cue and it was a special made cue from Cuetec and from what I can remember the wrap was close to the end. Kinda of like it didn't have a butt cap.

ribdoner
10-28-2008, 06:48 PM
I believe the shorter cue is his playing cue, not the break / jump cue. The reason I say this is I always thought that Earl played with a longer cue, well I was in Atlanta a few years back at the Pool Room in Marietta (before Johnny bought it) and I saw these two cues beside each other and you could see the difference it length, just like the pictures. So I asked Earl why he played with a longer cue. He said he didn't. The longer cue was a standard length cue and the shorter one was his playing cue. I was shocked that he played with one shorter. I started looking at the cue and it was a special made cue from Cuetec and from what I can remember the wrap was close to the end. Kinda of like it didn't have a butt cap.

Could be........Earl and Jimmy Reed experimented more with different length cues than most.

wahcheck
10-28-2008, 07:08 PM
I was there, and noticed the hole too. :grin:


I stuck my measuring tape in the hole, and it was about 5" deep.......

ribdoner
10-28-2008, 08:09 PM
I stuck my measuring tape in the hole, and it was about 5" deep.......


i used my dipstick...bout 10" before i bottomed out:outtahere:

smoooothstroke
10-28-2008, 10:22 PM
In the video of Strickland trowing his cues across the room wasn't one of them a short jump cue? Regardless of what he uses or does not use he can have the opinion that there should be a minimum length allowed.

Personally I would like to see jump cues go away along with mechanical bridges for jumping.I recently lost a game of 9 ball to a C player who jumped perfectly from the middle of the table pocketing the ball with perfect shape by using one of those clear plastic tall bridges.It seamed to me that he was more accurate jumping with that see-through bridge then when shooting a ball from his normal stance.

I use a JJ jump break.

JB Cases
10-29-2008, 02:13 AM
In the video of Strickland trowing his cues across the room wasn't one of them a short jump cue? Regardless of what he uses or does not use he can have the opinion that there should be a minimum length allowed.

Personally I would like to see jump cues go away along with mechanical bridges for jumping.I recently lost a game of 9 ball to a C player who jumped perfectly from the middle of the table pocketing the ball with perfect shape by using one of those clear plastic tall bridges.It seamed to me that he was more accurate jumping with that see-through bridge then when shooting a ball from his normal stance.

I use a JJ jump break.

It was a jump cue that he tossed. Sure he can have the opinion that they should all be burned. However it's a little bit like a Greenpeace activist driving an SUV in the jungle I guess.

You are probably right that the C-player did better with the bridge and the jump cue than he could if he had a normal shot using his normal cue. Why might this be? Well he might be concentrating more when he has to use a bridge and a jump cue at the same time. I would be much more careful in that situation. Perhaps if he gave that much attention to his normal play then he wouldn't be a C-player.

I personally think that a see through bridge is a great thing. Such a device can only lead to better pool playing.

Or maybe Finger Extensions, that's the ticket, anyone know where I can buy those??? :-)

JoeyA
10-29-2008, 08:35 AM
i used my dipstick...bout 10" before i bottomed out:outtahere:

Dreamer.
JoeyA