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View Full Version : Vs. the ghost. Ratings....


dirtypool40
10-24-2008, 11:15 PM
I know someone posted a "conversion" chart somewhere. Another guy started a thread about being able to beat the 6-ball ghost.





I was waiting for a match in a local tourney tonight and out of boredom played the 9-ball ghost on slow, but pretty easy 8-footers. I'm talking about the "real" ghost. Break and ball in hand. Shoot them as they lie, you miss, you lose. No dropping a ball, no chance for a safety. All offense.

I could stay ahead pretty comfortably. Slow, non-simonis cloth, pockets were 2 balls + about 1/4". I'd run 3 or 4 then balls would cluster or something stupid.

I don't think I could do it yet on a tight 9' with Simonis.


Where does that put me? B???

Assuming tight pockets (2 balls no more), simonis, 9-ball on a 9' table. If you can at least break even with the ghost, where's that put you? A?

How about same equipment, 10-ball? I think that's maybe 25% tougher.

Thanks in advance.....:thumbup:

selftaut
10-25-2008, 04:13 AM
Always the arguement has been that different parts of the world have different levels of play for each "rating", which is true.

But one thing you can hang your hat on is that an "A" player will beat the 9 ball ghost in races to 9 probably about 95% of the time. I think its easiest to judge yourself from that.

NateSchoepf
10-25-2008, 04:24 AM
Can someone explain the game/drill for me, I think I know but I would like the rules and the rating system so I can give it a try. thanks, Nate.

selftaut
10-25-2008, 04:38 AM
Can someone explain the game/drill for me, I think I know but I would like the rules and the rating system so I can give it a try. thanks, Nate.

Set a race against the ghost, I like races to 9 myself. Break the balls and take ball in hand anywhere and run out, 9 on the snap is a win, does not matter if you scratch on the break, you still take ball in hand, if you foul or miss the ghost gets that game.

As for ratings, as I said above an "A" speed will beat the ghost 95% of the time in races to 9. "B" speed will maybe win 30-40% of the races. "C" speed will maybe win a set every once in a while.

Pii
10-25-2008, 05:38 AM
Set a race against the ghost, I like races to 9 myself. Break the balls and take ball in hand anywhere and run out, 9 on the snap is a win, does not matter if you scratch on the break, you still take ball in hand, if you foul or miss the ghost gets that game.

As for ratings, as I said above an "A" speed will beat the ghost 95% of the time in races to 9. "B" speed will maybe win 30-40% of the races. "C" speed will maybe win a set every once in a while.

I assume you're talking about a 9 foot table.

selftaut
10-25-2008, 07:39 AM
I assume you're talking about a 9 foot table.

Yes, 9 foot table, and really is just my opinion of measure, others may have a different opinion.

Carpe_Diem
10-25-2008, 07:53 AM
I have been playing for while I guess. Since I was 17. I am un aware of the reason why after the break you automatically take ball in hand?

When I play the Ghost in eight ball, I break the rack, If I sink one or more balls I start playing from that point as stripes or solids thereafter playing each side equally as hard. Usually to a race of 7 or 9.

Is there a set way or drill for playing the ghost that can help me improve that I have not yet tried?

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry if I hijacked this thread. Thanks all. :)

Paul.



Set a race against the ghost, I like races to 9 myself. Break the balls and take ball in hand anywhere and run out, 9 on the snap is a win, does not matter if you scratch on the break, you still take ball in hand, if you foul or miss the ghost gets that game.

As for ratings, as I said above an "A" speed will beat the ghost 95% of the time in races to 9. "B" speed will maybe win 30-40% of the races. "C" speed will maybe win a set every once in a while.

dirtypool40
10-25-2008, 08:09 AM
When trying to get back in stroke, I break, take ball in hand and remove any one ball.

I like it because it helps me slow down and run the rack in my head to find the trouble spots, rather than just poke at the one.

selftaut
10-25-2008, 08:16 AM
I have been playing for while I guess. Since I was 17. I am un aware of the reason why after the break you automatically take ball in hand?

When I play the Ghost in eight ball, I break the rack, If I sink one or more balls I start playing from that point as stripes or solids thereafter playing each side equally as hard. Usually to a race of 7 or 9.

Is there a set way or drill for playing the ghost that can help me improve that I have not yet tried?

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry if I hijacked this thread. Thanks all. :)

Paul.

Paul the reason for ball in hand in 9 ball ghost is because being a rotation game you must shoot the lowest numbered ball first, more than half the time you will be hooked or a real bad shot after the break, may never beat the ghost if shooting from the layout. In 8 ball you have 6 other balls to choose from after the break if you pocketed one ball, a bit easier to just shoot from where you are. I like the way you play the ghost in 8 ball, makes total sense.

Kev

Carpe_Diem
10-25-2008, 08:20 AM
Thank you very much for the clarification. I am not a very good 9 ball player and have never tried playing the Ghost is nine ball.

Cheers my friend. :thumbup:


Paul the reason for ball in hand in 9 ball ghost is because being a rotation game you must shoot the lowest numbered ball first, more than half the time you will be hooked or a real bad shot after the break, may never beat the ghost if shooting from the layout. In 8 ball you have 6 other balls to choose from after the break if you pocketed one ball, a bit easier to just shoot from where you are. I like the way you play the ghost in 8 ball, makes total sense.

Kev

dirtypool40
10-25-2008, 08:47 AM
Try it with a shorter rack first, like maybe only six balls.

Or my variation, breaking and removing trouble balls so you just get practice moving through easier layouts without worrying about clusters.

Hell, when I started I used to practice running three balls.

Eventually I am going to beat the 10-ball ghost damnit!!!!

Jason Robichaud
10-25-2008, 11:47 AM
Since dealing with numbers why bother converting to letters. Play the ghost and if you average 7 balls, you are a 7. If you average 8, then you are an 8. When you average your handicap it could be anything from a whole number like 5 to 5.1 - 5.9. I would guess pros would be well into the 8's. So, play the race to 9 and do an average for balls potted.

mantis99
10-25-2008, 02:09 PM
As for ratings, as I said above an "A" speed will beat the ghost 95% of the time in races to 9. "B" speed will maybe win 30-40% of the races. "C" speed will maybe win a set every once in a while.


I don't think a "C" player will ever beat the 9 ball ghost, especially on 9 foot tables. I don't think they will do it on an 8 with buckets really. They are usually a "C" because of a lack of upper level CB and speed control, so they often get out of line, ending the rack. I think a "C" player will routinely run 3-6 balls, and get out occasionally. I would be surprised if they ran out twice or more in a race to 9. If they could do it twice consistently then they are a C+, and very close to getting to the next level.

I think that someone who beats the 9 ball ghost, even on an 8 footer, is a solid B or better.

I doubt that even the pros get out 95% of the time, let alone an "A" player, especially if on a 9' tournament diamond or a tournament edition Brunswick. I may be wrong about that, but I watch a lot of pool, and I have seen them mess up more than that with BIH. Clusters and difficult position alone make this difficult.

dirtypool40
10-25-2008, 08:14 PM
I think the equipment has a lot to do with it, but you're right, staying "in line" for a whole rack takes skill and knowledge too.

I am 50/50 vs. the 9ball ghost on the local 8-footers, meaning in longer sets, I can keep my head above water, as long as I pay attention. But on those tables I make a lot of balls on the break and their are not a lot of clusters.

I feel I have pretty good cue ball control and I think I pattern well for my level. Usually it's just making the ball that stops me. I've never been a real strong shot maker. When the balls start falling in cleanly I get out pretty smoothly.

I'm not beating the 9-ball ghost on a 9-footer with simonis and tighter pockets yet, but that day is coming. :thumbup:

I still think beating the 10-ball ghost has to be at least 30% harder than 9-ball. You make less on the break, the balls hang near the rails more, there are more clusters. The 10-ball ghost is TOUGH!!!!

BigCat
10-26-2008, 02:26 AM
I don't think a "C" player will ever beat the 9 ball ghost, especially on 9 foot tables. I don't think they will do it on an 8 with buckets really. They are usually a "C" because of a lack of upper level CB and speed control, so they often get out of line, ending the rack. I think a "C" player will routinely run 3-6 balls, and get out occasionally. I would be surprised if they ran out twice or more in a race to 9. If they could do it twice consistently then they are a C+, and very close to getting to the next level.

I think that someone who beats the 9 ball ghost, even on an 8 footer, is a solid B or better.

I doubt that even the pros get out 95% of the time, let alone an "A" player, especially if on a 9' tournament diamond or a tournament edition Brunswick. I may be wrong about that, but I watch a lot of pool, and I have seen them mess up more than that with BIH. Clusters and difficult position alone make this difficult.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read his post. A "C" player should almost never get out. And even regular pros have great difficulty beating the 9 ball ghost 9 out of 10 times. There is just too much probability for clusters and problems areas with that wide of a sampling.

Ray

selftaut
10-26-2008, 05:07 AM
I was thinking the exact same thing when I read his post. A "C" player should almost never get out. And even regular pros have great difficulty beating the 9 ball ghost 9 out of 10 times. There is just too much probability for clusters and problems areas with that wide of a sampling.

Ray

I think its just a matter of what one thinks constitutes players to be A speed, B speed etc...there is always a wide range of opinions on the subject, nobody is right or wrong. Also different areas have different standards for rating players. In my opinion, A speed would be a player that has a chance of winning a regional tour tournament such as the Joss, Predator, Blaze, New England Open Class etc...but are not touring pros. I know up here in the northeast, you would not want to be betting your paycheck against the A speeds playing the ghost. And some of the C's here will sometimes get out on you with an open shot.

mantis99
10-26-2008, 07:57 PM
I think its just a matter of what one thinks constitutes players to be A speed, B speed etc...there is always a wide range of opinions on the subject, nobody is right or wrong. Also different areas have different standards for rating players. In my opinion, A speed would be a player that has a chance of winning a regional tour tournament such as the Joss, Predator, Blaze, New England Open Class etc...but are not touring pros. I know up here in the northeast, you would not want to be betting your paycheck against the A speeds playing the ghost. And some of the C's here will sometimes get out on you with an open shot.

I consider myself a "C" player or a "C+" on a good day. I run 4-7 balls a lot, so if you leave me an open shot, you are definately taking a chance that I will get out. However, I only run out approximately 1 in 20 racks of 9 ball assuming an open table. I just seem to get out of line somewhere in the rack. Also, I generally beat the 3 ball ghost badly, the 4 ball ghost I play close to 50/50 with, and have never even come close to beating the 9 ball ghost. I would suggest that the 6 and up will kick my butt regularly. I certainly can run out, it just does not happen consistently.

I know some people do consider A players to be near pro level, however, I don't think the top 100 players get out with BIH 95% of the time on a 9 footer.

Cory in DC
10-26-2008, 08:59 PM
The statement in question was "As for ratings, as I said above an "A" speed will beat the ghost 95% of the time in races to 9. "B" speed will maybe win 30-40% of the races. "C" speed will maybe win a set every once in a while."

I don't think anyone said that the pros win 95% of racks vs. the ghost, meaning that they can run out 95% of the time by breaking and taking ball in hand. Instead, the statement was that the pros win 95% of races to 9 vs. the ghost.

For a pro to win 95% of races to 9 vs. the ghost only requires that the pro have about a 69% chance of getting out in each individual rack. If the odds of getting out go up to 75%, the pro wins nearly 99% of races to 9. (So be careful when someone better than you asks for a long race.)

Even if the pro is only 60% to get out each rack, he's still a 4 to 1 favorite to win the race to 9.

Cory