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SUPERSTAR
04-06-2005, 10:53 PM
Sounds like a fantastic idea.

Question.

If you manage to finish in the top 25% of the TV events. That means that you can no longer participate in the whole qualifying system right? You are just allowed to play in ALL the TV events?

AND... what happens if say, the first 25% is one group of people, and then say...the next 3 tournaments end up being a completely different 25% each tournament.

Wouldn't that fill up all the spots, or is there no limit on how many participate in the TV events?

Just wondering, even though i know that the likelyhood of this happening are basically nill, but you never know.

Good luck with it

SUPERSTAR

Celtic
04-06-2005, 11:14 PM
I think it looks awesome and has huge potential. It is alot like systems I have yammered on about for a long time on this very board and I love to see someone finally doing something like it. Such a tiered system of tournaments and advancement can grow to in time become a professional organization like the PGA with a segregated top tier of high profile events with only the top players able to enter and the lower tiered events used a qualifiers for the future admission into the top events. I am looking forward to seeing how well this works in practice.

BlowFish
04-06-2005, 11:53 PM
Very good start. JoeT must be one happy camper.

vapoolplayer
04-07-2005, 01:04 AM
i'd just like to take this moment to say mike janis kicks ass........... :D


looks like a GREAT IDEA..........hopefully all the regional tours as well as the UPA will jump on board.

VAP

TheFish
04-07-2005, 03:04 AM
Guess this will be a good test of how true UPA is to their word

will they humble up and take a back seat to what Janis has done and help the sport grow, or will they be what they are currently - say no, and try to run their competitors' events into the ground, or will they say yes, under the condition that everyone signs with UPA.

If they really practice what they preach, it should be the first one.


i'd just like to take this moment to say mike janis kicks ass........... :D


looks like a GREAT IDEA..........hopefully all the regional tours as well as the UPA will jump on board.

VAP

vapoolplayer
04-07-2005, 03:36 AM
Guess this will be a good test of how true UPA is to their word

will they humble up and take a back seat to what Janis has done and help the sport grow, or will they be what they are currently - say no, and try to run their competitors' events into the ground, or will they say yes, under the condition that everyone signs with UPA.

If they really practice what they preach, it should be the first one.

i don't think the UPA will have much choice if ALL of the regional tours get on board.

if everything goes as planned then the NUTS will have around 348 tourneys in its system a year...................i'd like to see the UPA do something about over 300 tourneys.................i think you'd see alot of contracts being ripped up.

VAP

frankncali
04-07-2005, 03:45 AM
I like the tier concept but have a couple questions. Maybe someone can
help me a bit.
Whats a local level event? Which tour type?
Whats a regional level event? Tour ??

So to play in the Regional level you MUST first play in a local level event????
What if there are not many near you? How many people would actually
be in this category.
Years ago I used to play the McDermott tour events that
were local out of support to the local rooms and have fun. I cashed very infrequently. Generally I had to take time from work to attend these. Now with local levels I wonder if people will have the time and money.
If you can go straight to the regional level then thats great. I would not want anyone going directly past this level however.
If you fail in one event to finish top 50% you have to return to the local level only- is this correct?

The next level is spread out one per quarter per area. Thats good.
I take it this level is one step below the touring pro level.

I like how Mike has left it a bit open for all other tours and promotors to
get aboard. By playing in these events would that stop anyone from
playing in NON NUTS events.

Where does the money come from for the TV events?

Do you have to join each tour or level with a membership fee? Or a fee to NUTS?

If you are on the local or regional train the events are only 1000 minimum events. Is there a vision of bigger dollar events on these levels.

What if you qualify for the next level but dont want to go up? Can you stay
on the other level? Example-- Joe makes a regional level event and
finish top 50% but barely or solidly either way. Joe cant not afford to travel
as a pro but wants to play events. Can he continue to play on the regional
level. Does it just mean that he is eligible for the next level??

Also
If Joe makes the top tier but does not finish top 25% he has to start over.
Is this correct? Wouldn't that put very good players back in with the
lower level aspiring players trying to make it to the next level. Would that
take a guys top 5 or top 10 finish from him or worse a win away.

Would all players have to go through the qualifying or would NUTS and the
local operators get together and let the top players head to the top or at least a little higher level.

Is this by quarter or by event? The percentages? If you make the Top level
or any level how many events do you get at that level? one?

I think this is a good start and we will see who jumps on the wagon and
who does not. I think it needs some fine tuning but is a great start.
I am not a fan of the NUTS name or ACCOR hotels. The latter is a french owned corporation that I have dealt with in the past.
I do feel that this is closer to the expense level for many of the levels.

With as many players participating on all the levels it seems like it would be easier to attract sponsors.

vapoolplayer
04-07-2005, 04:53 AM
I like the tier concept but have a couple questions. Maybe someone can
help me a bit.
Whats a local level event? Which tour type?
Whats a regional level event? Tour ??

So to play in the Regional level you MUST first play in a local level event????
What if there are not many near you? How many people would actually
be in this category.
Years ago I used to play the McDermott tour events that
were local out of support to the local rooms and have fun. I cashed very infrequently. Generally I had to take time from work to attend these. Now with local levels I wonder if people will have the time and money.
If you can go straight to the regional level then thats great. I would not want anyone going directly past this level however.
If you fail in one event to finish top 50% you have to return to the local level only- is this correct?

The next level is spread out one per quarter per area. Thats good.
I take it this level is one step below the touring pro level.

I like how Mike has left it a bit open for all other tours and promotors to
get aboard. By playing in these events would that stop anyone from
playing in NON NUTS events.

Where does the money come from for the TV events?

Do you have to join each tour or level with a membership fee? Or a fee to NUTS?

If you are on the local or regional train the events are only 1000 minimum events. Is there a vision of bigger dollar events on these levels.

What if you qualify for the next level but dont want to go up? Can you stay
on the other level? Example-- Joe makes a regional level event and
finish top 50% but barely or solidly either way. Joe cant not afford to travel
as a pro but wants to play events. Can he continue to play on the regional
level. Does it just mean that he is eligible for the next level??

Also
If Joe makes the top tier but does not finish top 25% he has to start over.
Is this correct? Wouldn't that put very good players back in with the
lower level aspiring players trying to make it to the next level. Would that
take a guys top 5 or top 10 finish from him or worse a win away.

Would all players have to go through the qualifying or would NUTS and the
local operators get together and let the top players head to the top or at least a little higher level.

Is this by quarter or by event? The percentages? If you make the Top level
or any level how many events do you get at that level? one?

I think this is a good start and we will see who jumps on the wagon and
who does not. I think it needs some fine tuning but is a great start.
I am not a fan of the NUTS name or ACCOR hotels. The latter is a french owned corporation that I have dealt with in the past.
I do feel that this is closer to the expense level for many of the levels.

With as many players participating on all the levels it seems like it would be easier to attract sponsors.

i'm sure mike will answer all the questions..........here's what i got from reading the press release.

all the tours will still have their regular schedules, those are the local stops.

by placing in one of those stops, you can now play in a regional tourney. (if you can't place in the top 6, trust me, the regional would crush you)

each TOUR will have a regional tourney EACH QUARTER. so basically you have 4 months (which is usually 4 events) on each tour to qualify for their regional.

then to move on, you must place in the TOP 50% to move onto the national qualifying events.

these qualifying events are NOT SINGLE TOUR EVENTS, they are COMBINED, (example.......joss and planet pool are in the same region, so their top 50 percent of players from their single tour regional event go onto the NATIONAL QUALIFYING regional event)

the top 50 percent of these national qualifying events move onto the NATIONAL T.V. events.

this is where you get your chance. you've made it all the way to the nationals, now you have to place in the top 25 percent. (so if you had 200 players, 50 would get to stay on)

if you place in the top 25% you stay on "tour" you are automatically put in the NATIONAL T.V. events. the rest of the players start over.

the way i understood it, basically the process starts over every quarter. which is good, because the local tour can still have their points list for their tour and the N.U.T.S doesn't interfere.

i also took it, that at any time, if you fall out of the top 25 percent, you have to start over..............so, if you placed high in one t.v. event, and the next two you did poorly and you dropped out of the top 25% overall..........guess what.........back to the minor leagues to re-qualify.

i think this is a GREAT idea, and i love the format.

i also think the NAME is GREAT

you have to join the tour you're trying to qualify on, or pay their single event dues, i'm sure. and 2 dollars goes to the NUTS fund.

seems to start over every quarter, so basically, you try for 4 months to get onto the regional, then you try to get in the top half at regional, then you try to get in the top half at the national qualifier, top half there, you move to t.v..........then you have to stay in the top quarter to stay on from there.

so the only place you actually get "dropped" from, is the t.v. if you don't make it to the t.v. tourney, you'll be qualifying for everything. its actually a pretty simple concept.

as far as the time and money, people have plenty of time and money to make the local tours already, the only thing they will have to worry about is if they make it to the national qualifiers or the t.v. rounds. unless there is a fund to pay for those two.

the regional will be in the same area as the local, so there is no extra travel there.

as far as the money for the t.v. rounds, i'm not sure, mike will have to tell us that.


VAP

vapoolplayer
04-07-2005, 05:07 AM
i see that there is a max of 12 telivised events per year, this would be the pro level i'm sure.

i think that the UPA should jump on the band wagon here, and make it mandatory that for entrance into the UPA events you have to archieve "touring pro" status on the N.U.T.S system. I think that the top 50 percent of the NUTS tv events should be granted UPA touring pro status.

that would allow for plenty of tourney's a year for the pro pool player to make a living.

you could also have "wild card buy ins" for the UPA events, where if someone who hasn't archieved "touring pro" status, they have to pay twice the entry fee. or half more on the entry fee............that allows them to play in that event ONLY, and they still have to incur the same fee everytime, until they archieve touring pro status.

VAP

JAM
04-07-2005, 05:22 AM
I applaud Mike Janis for bringing this baby to fruition. To make it work, the NUTS will need the collective cooperation from quite a few entities, and I sure do hope he can make this happen. It is a fresh, innovative, and creative concept! :)

There may be a few hiccups along the way to work out, one being the "unified" rules to follow, i.e., some tours allow jump cues and others do not, as an example.

Bravo to Joe Tucker, Mike Janis, and every other person who is willing to get on the NUTS band wagon. This could be the best thing that has happened for the game/sport of pool in a very long time.

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

Black-Balled
04-07-2005, 05:26 AM
I am right with JAM. This is cool! The effort of Mike J. and all the other folks who helped him put together the plan should be applauded. Sure, there will have to be refinement adn details to be hammered out, but this could be huge!

JAM
04-07-2005, 05:38 AM
I am right with JAM. This is cool! The effort of Mike J. and all the other folks who helped him put together the plan should be applauded. Sure, there will have to be refinement adn details to be hammered out, but this could be huge!

Hey, Black-Balled. Congratulations on your taking the lead on the points with the Planet Pool 9-Ball Tour! :)

Surely, you're going to Salisbury this weekend! ;)

Imagine if this NUTS things was in force, you'd be on your way to the next level. At any rate, good luck to you. :cool:

JAM

Koop
04-07-2005, 06:16 AM
I just finished reading the press release on the main page and this looks like the start of something really good for pool. Although I will never see the bright lights of TV tables it will sure be fun trying.
Mike, Joe and everyone else involved with getting this off the ground should be commended and I truly hope the UPA gets on board because something of this magnitude can really do nothing but help the players.

Just curious to know if there is someone in mind to run this whole thing. Seems like a fairly large endeavor.

Koop

SUPERSTAR
04-07-2005, 07:51 AM
The only other question that comes to my mind, would be, how do foreign players qualify?

Do they have to fly over here and qualify like in the WPBA?

SUPERSTAR

Celtic
04-07-2005, 08:02 AM
The only other question that comes to my mind, would be, how do foreign players qualify?

Do they have to fly over here and qualify like in the WPBA?

SUPERSTAR

I guess for now that is the way it would have to be. If it grows and becomes a truely huge pro level tour at the top level then perhaps in time it could extend to the international stage since the game is so huge in Europe and Asia as well. In time I would love to see a single massive money international pro pool tour, all the best players from all around the world on a single tour that plays in all 4 corners of the world on tour stops. Perhaps in 20 years the San Miguel, the UPA, the European tour, and this new tour will all merge and become a great international pro tour that is played all across the world. Few games/sports are truely international in appeal, pool is rare like that and it is a really big advantage and opportunity.

This is a great first step, let it grow slowly, I can see big things in the future for this that it can grow into but it needs to go slow because any time this sport tried to make quantum leaps forward it always crashes and burns.

Superstroke
04-07-2005, 08:07 AM
Why is everyone so concerned about the UPA?

What good does it do if they "jump on board"?

Why not just ignore them altogether, and start a N.U.T.S. tour, with N.U.T.S. rules and regulations to be controlled by the N.U.T.S.?
A N.U.T.S. membership so to speak. Have they (UPA) ever done anything to help others,or just themselves?

I mean, this is something that took some vision, and the fact that the UPA couldn't acheive this, leaves me wondering if they really deserve to benefit from it.

How would they help?

Superstroke

JAM
04-07-2005, 08:26 AM
Why is everyone so concerned about the UPA?

What good does it do if they "jump on board"?

Why not just ignore them altogether, and start a N.U.T.S. tour, with N.U.T.S. rules and regulations to be controlled by the N.U.T.S.?
A N.U.T.S. membership so to speak. Have they (UPA) ever done anything to help others,or just themselves?

I mean, this is something that took some vision, and the fact that the UPA couldn't acheive this, leaves me wondering if they really deserve to benefit from it.

How would they help?

In the words of Yogi Berra, "If people don't want to come out to the ball park, nobody's gonna stop 'em." :p

JAM

SUPERSTAR
04-07-2005, 08:38 AM
Oh yeah...one more thought.

If the top 25% are no longer allowed to play in the lower events, what does this mean for the people that use these events to supplement their income.

There are a few players that usually dominate in certain regions and have a greater chance of say finishing in the top 25%. I would assume that the income they gain on the regionals might be worth more to them, when compared to the POSSIBLE income they can achieve when compared to the fields they might encounter at the big time events at the top of the system.

Like how would they feel if they could never go back to those tournaments to make money?

SUPERSTAR

Celtic
04-07-2005, 08:51 AM
Why is everyone so concerned about the UPA?

What good does it do if they "jump on board"?

Why not just ignore them altogether, and start a N.U.T.S. tour, with N.U.T.S. rules and regulations to be controlled by the N.U.T.S.?
A N.U.T.S. membership so to speak. Have they (UPA) ever done anything to help others,or just themselves?

I mean, this is something that took some vision, and the fact that the UPA couldn't acheive this, leaves me wondering if they really deserve to benefit from it.

How would they help?

Superstroke


Division is bad in any sport. You dont want to split the playerbase and the events. You get multiple ranking systems using different tournaments to determine different point leaders and different money leaders. There is a reason all huge sports have one single premier tour/league. There is a reason the WHL was absorbed into the NHL. If this sport is going to succeed in the end and become huge it is required that one single strong tour rises to the top and becomes the undisputed only real "pro" tour of the sport.

Jersey
04-07-2005, 09:23 AM
Were can I find more info on this proposal?...is it in the 10-Ball thread?...is there a web page?...I saw people mention a press release, where can it be found?

thx~

hustlefinger
04-07-2005, 09:36 AM
There are a few players that usually dominate in certain regions and have a greater chance of say finishing in the top 25%. I would assume that the income they gain on the regionals might be worth more to them, when compared to the POSSIBLE income they can achieve when compared to the fields they might encounter at the big time events at the top of the system.
SUPERSTAR

Well, that’s the trick to this whole thing, isn’t it?

Making the big time events very appealing (or lucrative) so players would want to climb this ladder system to the top and stay there.


Like how would they feel if they could never go back to those tournaments to make money?
SUPERSTAR

Players should also have a means to return down the ladder, rather than being pushed off it.

Rick

Jude Rosenstock
04-07-2005, 10:03 AM
Oh yeah...one more thought.

If the top 25% are no longer allowed to play in the lower events, what does this mean for the people that use these events to supplement their income.

There are a few players that usually dominate in certain regions and have a greater chance of say finishing in the top 25%. I would assume that the income they gain on the regionals might be worth more to them, when compared to the POSSIBLE income they can achieve when compared to the fields they might encounter at the big time events at the top of the system.

Like how would they feel if they could never go back to those tournaments to make money?

SUPERSTAR


No you read it wrong. They cannot compete in the "Regional" or "National" events which are used to determine who is entitled to play in the television events. Players that are eligible to compete in the television rounds remain eligible to compete in all local events.

In otherwords, nobody is stopping them from going back to the Joss tour and winning week after week. All this does is say that once you're in, you can't play in those regional & national events again.

For example: If Danny Basavich places in the top 6 of a Joss event, he will be allowed to compete in the Regionals. If he does well there, he'll be allowed to compete in the Nationals. If he does well there, he'll be allowed to compete in the television rounds. Once he's accomplished this, he can still play in Joss events but he cannot compete in higher-level events that are designed to qualify players for the television round.

OldHasBeen
04-07-2005, 10:10 AM
I think the N.U.T.S. sounds like "The Nuts"!
& if you think I won't gamble - Just Give Me The N.U.T.S. - OR - "The Nuts"!

TY & GL

nineballcc
04-07-2005, 10:33 AM
Hey everyone - this is Ceci from Planet-Pool. This announcement is a bit overwhelming for everyone, we're definitely excited. A lot of business with Janis was finished at Valley Forge - and we are all so excited about working as a team instead of against each other. Kudos to Janis for the legwork he has put in to this concept.

As for the details - the fine tuning is still being worked on as you can see. Mike J is currently at the BCA Expo spreading the word and will be around the earlier part of next week. Otherwise, I am sure he would have already responded to your questions in greater detail.

Plant-Pool's first qualifying event will be Salisbury April 16-17. We will be announcing some of details during the player meeting (sorry guys - this does mean Nick's meeting will be longer - but it will definitely be worth it)

A couple of the questions I can answer for now...

Each tour will have it's own regular membership fees and event entry fees. There will be an additional $2 per player entry fee (at each event) that will be the NUTS fee. The reason it is per event - each event is a qualifier.

As Mike mentioned in his press release, the next four months will be qualifying for the Allen Hopkins SKINS event. We have a $5000 paid seat already for that event - players will play local events, then regional events, then a national. Winner takes the seat in the SKINS game.

As Mike mentioned, this is just the start. It's one peice at a time, and the separate tours are dedicated to making this happen. The whole proposition is part of a vision that each tour has had individually, but have not been able to complete on their own. Unifying and strengthening the sport, bringing in larger sponsors (especially non-billiard commercial sponsors); and heading in the direction of so many other sports - something the fans will want to track and follow.

I know you all have plenty of additional questions - and I hate to keep you hanging - but as it was mentioned before, this is the very first time tours have combined efforts on this large of a scale, and there is a lot of final pieces that need to be put in place.

Keep your ears open, and your eyes on the press releases.

Timberly
04-07-2005, 10:56 AM
Why is everyone so concerned about the UPA?

What good does it do if they "jump on board"?

Why not just ignore them altogether, and start a N.U.T.S. tour, with N.U.T.S. rules and regulations to be controlled by the N.U.T.S.?

Superstroke
The UPA is a tour and the goal for NUTS is to Unify tours. If the UPA and NUTS were able to work together, as they should, then the transition of NUTS and it's goals should run quite smooth. If the biggest of all the tours (UPA) were not to cooperate, it would cause needless headaches. Just ignoring the UPA would cause animosity, which obviously isn't the goal here. I have absolutely no idea if Mike's game plan includes the UPA or not. I am simply posting by ASSumption at this point. Regardless of whether the UPA jumps on board or not, NUTS can work. As it currently stands, the UPA can cut other tours off at the knee's (BJ's quote). If NUTS can come to fruition, it will be a much larger group than the UPA which will take away the leverage that the UPA currently has. In my "I really know nothing opinion", the NUTS can work with or without the UPA but I think it would be in everyone's best interest to try to include the UPA in this organization.... New UNIFIED Tour System.... think Unity, not animosity.

shinyballs
04-07-2005, 11:17 AM
For Pete's sake drop the N and make it U.T.S. !!!!!

N.U.T.S., I mean are they kidding??

SUPERSTAR
04-07-2005, 11:18 AM
Ok, i see what your saying about me reading it wrong.

But then the question is the same question that the women have had to deal with on the NEWT tour.

If the field has certain players that make it to the top level of the system, and they can't play in the middle two levels.

What happens to the guys who WOULD have qualified in the lowest level, but are knocked out by the top guys?

See what i'm saying?

How would you then determine the top 8 that get selected to move on if you have players that are already qualified for the top level tournaments, playing and knocking people out?
Because if the top guys WERE allowed, that might taint the qualification system.
Plus. Say the top guy wins as expected...and wins all the prize money. What happens to the other guys who qualified, but now have to dig in their pockets to come up with cash to continue.

Most qualifying systems, have a qualifier type scenario, with cash added to go towards the tournament they qualified for. If this is a system that the player has to keep on diggin in their pockets to come up with more and more cash only to get knocked out further down the road, it might not be as appealing.


I'm sure you understand my point. It's just a touchy issue cause now it's becoming not just a who is the best player qualified, it can come down to...who dodged the bullet and had the cushy draw with the TOP guys involved...and who did the top guys eliminate that didn't get to make the final 8. Even thought they might have gotten their chance had the top guys already moved on to the big time and not been there to eliminate them.

SUPERSTAR

stevelomako
04-07-2005, 11:26 AM
The UPA is a tour and the goal for NUTS is to Unify tours. If the UPA and NUTS were able to work together, as they should, then the transition of NUTS and it's goals should run quite smooth. If the biggest of all the tours (UPA) were not to cooperate, it would cause needless headaches. Just ignoring the UPA would cause animosity, which obviously isn't the goal here. I have absolutely no idea if Mike's game plan includes the UPA or not. I am simply posting by ASSumption at this point. Regardless of whether the UPA jumps on board or not, NUTS can work. As it currently stands, the UPA can cut other tours off at the knee's (BJ's quote). If NUTS can come to fruition, it will be a much larger group than the UPA which will take away the leverage that the UPA currently has. In my "I really know nothing opinion", the NUTS can work with or without the UPA but I think it would be in everyone's best interest to try to include the UPA in this organization.... New UNIFIED Tour System.... think Unity, not animosity.

Timberly,
The UPA is NOT a tour. It is a players ASSOCIATION.

United States Professional Pool Players Association.

That's where I think the problem lies, they need to focus on representing players by saying to promoters "IF you sanction your event with us these players are on our membership and will/might play in your event"

NOT going to promoters saying "If you DON'T sanction with us we will try to undermine the event you are trying to put on"

It's an association that to succeed, needs to have unity within THEMSELVES first!

landshark77
04-07-2005, 11:49 AM
Ok guys how does this affect the women? Almost all of these tours have a women's tourney that is separate AND the women can play in the open. Are the women allowed to win these q'ers?? If so what happens when they get into the higher tiers?

CC- if they are not eligible for the q'ers, do the women still have pay the $2 to play???

Black-Balled
04-07-2005, 11:55 AM
How come this won't be 10ball?

landshark77
04-07-2005, 12:03 PM
Ok guys how does this affect the women? Almost all of these tours have a women's tourney that is separate AND the women can play in the open. Are the women allowed to win these q'ers?? If so what happens when they get into the higher tiers?

CC- if they are not eligible for the q'ers, do the women still have pay the $2 to play???

AND if the answer is yes, how does the WPBA feel about this?? Several Pros are known for their participation on the various regional tours. For some reason I can see the WPBA pitching a fit because, say, Karen Corr q'ed all the way up to the SKINS event. JMHO.

Tom In Cincy
04-07-2005, 12:10 PM
This is a stretch to say the least...

Pool Room owners, players, regional promoters, national promoters, TV, pro players (men and women), pro tournament promoters (men and women), Casinos... All working together? And, of course, the sponsers.. all of them..

And, who is going to be the 'official' ruling body? will the World Standard rules apply at all levels? if so, does that mean the Pro-Rules (they are different than the World Sandard Rules) are out the window?

I would love to see this in my life time..... ;)

Timberly
04-07-2005, 02:20 PM
Timberly,
The UPA is NOT a tour. It is a players ASSOCIATION.

United States Professional Pool Players Association.

That's where I think the problem lies, they need to focus on representing players by saying to promoters "IF you sanction your event with us these players are on our membership and will/might play in your event"

NOT going to promoters saying "If you DON'T sanction with us we will try to undermine the event you are trying to put on"

It's an association that to succeed, needs to have unity within THEMSELVES first!
Hence the reason I made it a point to state "in my I know nothing opinion". :p

I've only recently gotten back into pool and I'm not really familiar with all the good, bad, & ugly that has gotten so many people riled up against the UPA. The last time I was "in the know" when it came to pool, CJ Wiley was trying to get his thing (can't remember what he called it) off the ground. I'm really not qualified to have an opinion about it either way. I will say that undermining tours that don't sanction them is a gross misconduct and is nothing short of bullying. If MJ and the powers that be can get this thing off and running, I do believe these tactics will come back to haunt them. Be careful of the toes you step on today for they might be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow. The pool world would be a better place if the tours and associations could get along and work together. If that can happen with the UPA then that would be great, if they don't want to cooperate, then so be it. This can and will be bigger than they are if it can get off the ground. I wish MJ and everyone the best on this. I'll be sitting here on the rail sweatin it. :cool:

vapoolplayer
04-07-2005, 02:59 PM
well at least with this catchy name, if the UPA doesn't like it..........mike can tell them to kiss, or lick..........the N.U.T.S.............. :rolleyes: :D :cool:


sorry, no one made a joke of it, so i had to be the first...........


and i think this should turn ALL the tours into 10 ball...........

VAP

stevelomako
04-07-2005, 03:48 PM
Hence the reason I made it a point to state "in my I know nothing opinion". :p

I've only recently gotten back into pool and I'm not really familiar with all the good, bad, & ugly that has gotten so many people riled up against the UPA. The last time I was "in the know" when it came to pool, CJ Wiley was trying to get his thing (can't remember what he called it) off the ground. I'm really not qualified to have an opinion about it either way. I will say that undermining tours that don't sanction them is a gross misconduct and is nothing short of bullying. If MJ and the powers that be can get this thing off and running, I do believe these tactics will come back to haunt them. Be careful of the toes you step on today for they might be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow. The pool world would be a better place if the tours and associations could get along and work together. If that can happen with the UPA then that would be great, if they don't want to cooperate, then so be it. This can and will be bigger than they are if it can get off the ground. I wish MJ and everyone the best on this. I'll be sitting here on the rail sweatin it. :cool:

Hey, You're qualified to have any opinion you want. I like reading your post's, you're interested, you want to know and you're funny. The comment about the toes cracked me up but I hope no one has toes on their ass.......hmmmm.......maybe thats why you see some guys scratching their asses so much.........its their toes that are itching.

Timberly
04-07-2005, 05:13 PM
The comment about the toes cracked me up but I hope no one has toes on their ass.......hmmmm.......maybe thats why you see some guys scratching their asses so much.........its their toes that are itching.
I couldn't for the life of me, and still can't remember exactly how the saying goes... sometimes you gotta close you're eye's and swing... that's what I did. :D

Back to the topic at hand.... There's a lot of great questions and concerns out there as far as how this will work. That's exactly what MJ was asking to happen and you guys need to keep voicing these. They need your input... questions, ideas, concerns, etc in order to see things from all perspectives. They can come up with the idea as they have, and they can sign people up on the basic premise of the idea, as they have done and are continuing to try to do. Once those things have happened they'll come together to hammer out the details. This is where this thread will come into play. They can think they've covered everything and then someone here will pose a question of something they never thought about. Having said that, c'mon folks, get that little rat spinning the wheel upstairs and think of all the pros & cons you can come up with and voice them along with all your concerns and questions.

(insert a little cheerleader smiley face here)

14.1player
04-07-2005, 06:27 PM
I think that the NUTS system would work well in improving the US situation to try to qualify for the WPC:

WPC Press Release Qualy System: www.worldpoolchampionship.com

At the moment, it seems UPA focused, and not enough non-UPA and regional participation.

The fact that the winner and runner-up of BCA Open is given a spot, when the BCA Open is a 32 man UPA Invitational, AND the fact that the UPA top 12 ranked players go to WPC, means we will be seeing the same old players and not developing new US talent.

JMO ;)

Timberly
04-08-2005, 12:34 AM
I don't really have any details and promised to keep mum on the couple that I was given but I just spoke to MJ and he said to let everyone know that things are going really well.

MJ has his heart & soul into making this work for the game, the players, and the fans of the game. This isn't a selfish endeavor and for that alone he has my respect.

He doesn't really have access to the computer right now and as you can imagine, he's going non stop while he's out there. He has been getting phone calls with updates about what's being posted here so he knows we're behind him on this. Knowing that people support this is not only a confidence booster for him and helps give him the drive to continue, but it also helps bring more people and companies to the table because they know their customers support the idea.

Have a great day everyone,

Your resident cheerleader
(I couldn't be one in real life... gotta luv the internet) :D

Mike Templeton
04-08-2005, 04:58 AM
well at least with this catchy name, if the UPA doesn't like it..........mike can tell them to kiss, or lick..........the N.U.T.S.............. :rolleyes: :D :cool:


sorry, no one made a joke of it, so i had to be the first...........


VAP
VAP,

I'm glad someone finally had "the NUTS" to do it :D .

Mike

jjinfla
04-08-2005, 05:04 AM
This plan just seems so mind boggling and overwhelming to me. Just trying to coordinate all the TD's and get them to report to one central body seems like a formidable task. And then to get the TD to collect money from their players and turn it over to that body seems a stretch. The TD's are not making any money now so why would they do all the work they are doing just to make some money for someone else? There has to be some way to compensate the TD's to get their cooperation.

And who would set up, coordinate, and run all of these regional tournaments? Talk about a conflict of tournaments now what would it be like with all these added tournaments? There are only 4 weekends in most months.

Are there enough hours in the day to manage the logistics and record keeping involved in tracking all of the tours? To maintain a website? To operate/own a computer with the proper program for the database?

Now if the TV appearances become reality then that would be the carrot to get the players to cough up the extra money. Look at the WPBA, there are plenty of women who play every month hoping against all odds that they will have one great day and win enough matches to get to the TV rounds when they really have no chance of accomplishing that.

But then who would have thought the APA would ever have grown as large as it has?

Jake

vapoolplayer
04-08-2005, 05:15 AM
This plan just seems so mind boggling and overwhelming to me.

why does that not surprise me........... :confused:


Now if the TV appearances become reality then that would be the carrot to get the players to cough up the extra money. Look at the WPBA, there are plenty of women who play every month hoping against all odds that they will have one great day and win enough matches to get to the TV rounds when they really have no chance of accomplishing that.

are you some failed poolplayer.........or do the women in florida beat you that bad that you always have something to say about them????


VAP

Timberly
04-08-2005, 05:22 AM
This plan just seems so mind boggling and overwhelming to me. Just trying to coordinate all the TD's and get them to report to one central body seems like a formidable task.
Jake
You have to realize that while this is new to us, it's not new to MJ and the others. This has been thought about and mulled over for yrs. When the desert dust settles in Vegas and everyone gets back home from the weekend, I'm sure we'll be enlightened and many of your questions will be answered.

Johnny "V"
04-08-2005, 05:28 AM
If this actually becomes a reality I would be the first to say Holy Crap.

It just sounds too much like 3 guys sitting around at 3:00 in the morning after a huge party... "Yea we could own a bar.... maannnn... Bobby you could tend bar and Jimmy could cook burgers in the back... We wouldn't ever have to pay for drinks..." while they are using Jimmy as a foot rest because he just passed out.

JV

vapoolplayer
04-08-2005, 05:35 AM
If this actually becomes a reality I would be the first to say Holy Crap.

It just sounds too much like 3 guys sitting around at 3:00 in the morning after a huge party... "Yea we could own a bar.... maannnn... Bobby you could tend bar and Jimmy could cook burgers in the back... We wouldn't ever have to pay for drinks..." while they are using Jimmy as a foot rest because he just passed out.

JV

how do you think the UPA got started???? LOL :cool:

VAP

chefjeff
04-08-2005, 06:25 AM
Oh yeah...one more thought.

If the top 25% are no longer allowed to play in the lower events, what does this mean for the people that use these events to supplement their income.

There are a few players that usually dominate in certain regions and have a greater chance of say finishing in the top 25%. I would assume that the income they gain on the regionals might be worth more to them, when compared to the POSSIBLE income they can achieve when compared to the fields they might encounter at the big time events at the top of the system.

Like how would they feel if they could never go back to those tournaments to make money?

SUPERSTAR

They'd feel what anybody feels when competition increases:

1.) Depressed and therefore quit...or...
2.) Challenged and therefore get even better

jmo,

Jeff Livingston

jjinfla
04-08-2005, 06:32 AM
why does that not surprise me........... :confused:
are you some failed poolplayer.........or do the women in florida beat you that bad that you always have something to say about them????
VAP

Hey VAP if that confuses you then you have no clue at all.

And if you can't debate the logic then of course you must attack the person.

Just the name N.U.T.S. lends itself to ridicule. I don't see TV accepting that name.

As for me being a poolplayer - hell no - I'm a donator at the local tournaments. But I do enjoy it. But last year I did win over $1500 in local tournaments. Not bad for an old guy who doesn't take the game all that seriously.

Why do you state that I am being critical of the women when all I am doing is being realistic? How many of them actually do get on TV? But they all want to don't they? How many of them would play if there was no TV?

This reminds me of an old class B Mickey Rooney movie where they are sitting around saying: you can sing, I can dance we have friends who can help and I know where there is an old barn we can fix up and they pull off a million dollar extravaganza and don't have two quarters between them.

Okay VAP, do you really think a TD is going to go out and collect money to turn it over to N.U.T.S. That would be nuts. Hell, even the policy runners in Chi Town got a cut of the action. And it turned out to be quite a big cut on those twenty five cent bets.

But who knows, maybe Mike can pull it off. It all depends on what the TD's think, not what you or I think.

Jake

Wally in Cincy
04-08-2005, 06:40 AM
If this actually becomes a reality I would be the first to say Holy Crap.

It just sounds too much like 3 guys sitting around at 3:00 in the morning after a huge party... "Yea we could own a bar.... maannnn... Bobby you could tend bar and Jimmy could cook burgers in the back... We wouldn't ever have to pay for drinks..." while they are using Jimmy as a foot rest because he just passed out.

JV

Johnny V and Jake,

Please bear in mind that MJ is no rookie at this. He has been running a very successful tour for years and from what I have seen his events are always well-run and top-notch.

There's reason to be optimistic about this.

Perk
04-08-2005, 06:55 AM
I hope this idea, or some version of this comes into place. Sounds like it would be good for the players. I believe the name would have to change before it becomes a reality though.

<--of course the WSOP has a segment called "The NUTS", so who knows if sponsors/tv deals would let it fly.

chefjeff
04-08-2005, 07:00 AM
If this actually becomes a reality I would be the first to say Holy Crap.

It just sounds too much like 3 guys sitting around at 3:00 in the morning after a huge party... "Yea we could own a bar.... maannnn... Bobby you could tend bar and Jimmy could cook burgers in the back... We wouldn't ever have to pay for drinks..." while they are using Jimmy as a foot rest because he just passed out.

JV

I only know what I've read about this here and in the cover story, so I may be incorrect in my opinion, but here goes....

What you're describing in your post is the "idea" stage of value development. Lots of people have done what you described so funny and well. And it is worth a dime a dozen.

But this tour idea has gone beyond that. It has created a product, a prototype, if you will, for all to see and consider. And it seems many here are doing that.

The step they're taking now is to mass produce this product. This is harder, much harder.

Inherent in all of their activities is the hardest, but most profitable value, marketing. MJ is in Vegas someone said, selling his product. Right on, MJ!!! If he can convince others to buy into his NUTS (MJ, do some research on the acceptablilty of this name before commiting to it, please) money will follow. When reluctant others understand the product and see the value in it, why wouldn't they participate?...it'd be in their self-interest to do so.

Nothing good comes easy. Go, MJ, go!

Jeff Livingston

Jersey
04-08-2005, 07:23 AM
People with 'Vision', are always seen as 'suspect' to those without vision...someone, someday has to step up and try something new, something nobody else thinks is possible, reasonable or even necessary...people are creatures of habit, even if their habit is killing them, they refuse and even fight change...it scares some people to think, 'hey this may work', because it is not familiar to them...and what if it does work?...then those who doubt will have no option but to change with the times...and we all know it is 'time' for something like this to happen in the Billiards community...

MJ, do the work, form the needed alliances, keep all of us in mind as you do this work and know that the average pool player will benefit from your efforts...

thx~

JAM
04-08-2005, 07:34 AM
If there was ever a book that applies to this thread, it's "Who Moved My Cheese." It's definitely the NUTS. :D

http://www.whomovedmycheese.com/products/productDetails.asp?myCursor=1&categoryID=1&parentCatID=4

JMHO, FWIW! :p

JAM

Johnny "V"
04-08-2005, 07:58 AM
Mike and my conversing has gone back years before this forum and believe me my comment was in no way directed at MJ's TD capability. I have no doubt that if anyone has the ability to pull a few of the tours together it would be Mike. But I will go out on a limb here (yea right) and guess that two things are going to happen here.

1) Most of the tours are not going to want to give up a piece of their share for the betterment of the sport/game.

2) If making the UPA the top of the food chain is the goal I am going to guess that they will state something along the lines that 'they cannot support something that they cannot administer.'

My reference in the post was based on the potential possibilities that have been posted in this thread. Reality is the reaction that the rest of the tours will have towards something like this is going to be interesting to say the least. All you have to do is look at the state of the tours right now and all the bickering that is going on. Double schedules, discrimination, bullying tactics does not sound like a group of people wanting to work together for the greater good. They are more like rodents trying to get the biggest piece of the cheese.

Like I said if it works... Fantastic!!! And I would play in as many N.U.T.S. tournies that I could afford. I say go for it MJ, I just thought my reference was amusing and wanted to share.

JV

Johnny "V"
04-08-2005, 08:06 AM
If there was ever a book that applies to this thread, it's "Who Moved My Cheese." It's definitely the NUTS. :D

http://www.whomovedmycheese.com/products/productDetails.asp?myCursor=1&categoryID=1&parentCatID=4

JMHO, FWIW! :p

JAM
Weird thing is I have never heard a reference to this story until just this week and I have heard two in the past two days.

JV<--- starting to get that funny feeling!

Williebetmore
04-08-2005, 08:20 AM
Planter's Peanuts seems an ideal sponsor - has anyone called them yet???

PrinsNick
04-08-2005, 08:22 AM
Nevermind the entire NUTS concept being overwhelming, these posts are crazy! I'm glad to see such a great response. While I'm in no position to answer all the questions that have been asked here, I will try to clarify some of them. Mike will address other concerns when he gets back from Vegas. Please remember that this whole thing is very new and that the entire structure laid out in the press release is a proposed structure which will be tweaked in the coming future. But as Ceci said, there is already one guaranteed spot for the NUTS national qualifier in Allen Hopkins' $130,000 added Skins Billiards Championship in November, so regional tour qualifiers are starting immediately. Our first one is next weekend, and the Hampton Ridge Tour has some coming up.

Whats a local level event? Which tour type?
Whats a regional level event? Tour ??

So to play in the Regional level you MUST first play in a local level event????
What if there are not many near you? How many people would actually
be in this category...

A local level event is any tour event of the tours that are currently part of the NUTS, for instance the Viking Tour, Planet Pool, Hampton Ridge, Fury, etc. Eight players (top 6 finishers plus 2 wildcards) per event from each of these tour events will qualify for the regional level qualifier.

If there aren't any close to you, you should start encouraging your local/regional tour operator to join the NUTS. We need tours all over the country to be involved in this, and as players, you have the power to demand that the tour that you play in also get a chance to offer qualifiers.

Where does the money come from for the TV events?

From sponsorship and from the $2 per player per event.

Do you have to join each tour or level with a membership fee? Or a fee to NUTS?

You will have to join one (or more) of the tours currently involved as a tour member, and then pay the $2 per tournament NUTS fee. No separate NUTS membership is necessary, but the only way you can get into the NUTS qualifiers is by playing on one of these tours.

As for UPA concerns, as far as I know the UPA will not immediately be part of the NUTS. The idea with the NUTS is to involve and unite REGIONAL tours under one big umbrella so that ultimately, pool can get major corporate sponsorship in order to give it its rightful place on the sports map. This could be pool's answer to poker...

PrinsNick
04-08-2005, 09:31 AM
The UPA is a tour and the goal for NUTS is to Unify tours. If the UPA and NUTS were able to work together, as they should, then the transition of NUTS and it's goals should run quite smooth. If the biggest of all the tours (UPA) were not to cooperate, it would cause needless headaches. Just ignoring the UPA would cause animosity, which obviously isn't the goal here. I have absolutely no idea if Mike's game plan includes the UPA or not. I am simply posting by ASSumption at this point. Regardless of whether the UPA jumps on board or not, NUTS can work. As it currently stands, the UPA can cut other tours off at the knee's (BJ's quote). If NUTS can come to fruition, it will be a much larger group than the UPA which will take away the leverage that the UPA currently has. In my "I really know nothing opinion", the NUTS can work with or without the UPA but I think it would be in everyone's best interest to try to include the UPA in this organization.... New UNIFIED Tour System.... think Unity, not animosity.

Timberly, I have to correct you. The UPA is far from being the "biggest tour." Seven events a year--of which two events on their schedule have been in existence long before the UPA was established--the Super Billiards Expo event at VF and the BCA Open--at 64 players per event or less is not exactly big. The UPA just happens to be the only men's pro association with a tour schedule right now. I'm not talking them down--if it weren't for them there would be no professional organization at all--but in the three years they have been around, we haven't exactly seen an impact brought about by their presence. They have just filled the vacuum that was left after the Camel Pro Series died and not really accomplished anything more than that. The UPA cannot "cut off other tours at the knees." They are not strong enough for that. Maybe in the future, but not right now...

landshark77
04-08-2005, 10:17 AM
are you some failed poolplayer.........or do the women in florida beat you that bad that you always have something to say about them????


VAP
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!

And THAT is why I like you VAP! :p

landshark77
04-08-2005, 10:21 AM
Nick and Ceci....what about the women??? :confused:

DaveK
04-08-2005, 10:24 AM
A local level event is any tour event of the tours that are currently part of the NUTS, for instance the Viking Tour, Planet Pool, Hampton Ridge, Fury, etc. Eight players (top 6 finishers plus 2 wildcards) per event from each of these tour events will qualify for the regional level qualifier.

If there aren't any close to you, you should start encouraging your local/regional tour operator to join the NUTS. We need tours all over the country to be involved in this, ...

Any discussion about including Canada in the plans ? I don't know of any regional tours in Western Canada, but there are a couple in Southern Ontario (?), the Canadian Showdown and Canadian 10K.

As for my opinion, I feel this is an excellent idea and could be a great step forward in creating a cohesive professional pool tournament scene in North America. This seems one of the few ways where a real player ranking system can be implimented across the entire country or continent. JMO

Dave

landshark77
04-08-2005, 10:24 AM
Why do you state that I am being critical of the women when all I am doing is being realistic? How many of them actually do get on TV? But they all want to don't they? How many of them would play if there was no TV?


Jake

Uh, my bet is all of them. You play pool because you love pool, not TV. If TV was the first priority don't you think they would be sweating the sets out in Hollywood and not the sets at the PH??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Timberly
04-08-2005, 10:51 AM
Timberly, I have to correct you. The UPA is far from being the "biggest tour." Seven events a year--of which two events on their schedule have been in existence long before the UPA was established--the Super Billiards Expo event at VF and the BCA Open--at 64 players per event or less is not exactly big. The UPA just happens to be the only men's pro association with a tour schedule right now. I'm not talking them down--if it weren't for them there would be no professional organization at all--but in the three years they have been around, we haven't exactly seen an impact brought about by their presence. They have just filled the vacuum that was left after the Camel Pro Series died and not really accomplished anything more than that. The UPA cannot "cut off other tours at the knees." They are not strong enough for that. Maybe in the future, but not right now...
Timberly<----blabbering know nothing :D

Before you read the rest of this post and take it wrong, let me first say thank you for your input. Now, please read the following keeping in mind that I've got a shit eatin grin on my face as I type this.... I might sound angry, but that's not the case at all... it's just not easy to construe tones on a computer which is bad for me because I've got a really dry, smart ass sense of humor that people online tend to misunderstand.

My verbage, again is wrong. The meaning of what I said, in not so clear terms, is what you said... "The UPA just happes to be the only men's pro association with a tour schedule". I was referring to the calibur of player they "represent" and not so much the size of the UPA and their tour but I didn't do a good job of making my thoughts clear.

My comment about cutting other tours off at the knee's was a quote from someone else's post in reference to what's been stated in other posts. If the tour didn't agree to sanction the UPA then the UPA would schedule tourney's on the same date as the tour that didn't sanction them. Again, I know nothing except for what people tell me and some people here have said that this has happened to them.

I'm just going to sit back and keep my trap shut because I can't for the life of me verbalize what's in my thoughts the correct way. Not to mention, as I've already stated, I've been away from pool for a long time and I'm really not "in the know" about any of this. All I know is that I support what MJ and everyone else is doing to make this work. I've at least managed to get that point across and I'll leave it at that. :cool:

BTW Nick, I should be seeing you on the 30th... I'll buy you a beer but I ain't buying you that austrailian rum stuff! I'm only going to spectate but I might bring a friend along to play in the tourney that weekend....

T

PrinsNick
04-08-2005, 11:05 AM
Nick and Ceci....what about the women??? :confused:

LS,

Since this is still very new and since the other tours who are currently part of NUTS do not have separate women's tours like ours, we are still trying to decide what to do. We will discuss this at Break Time in Salisbury and get some input from the ladies. As it stands right now, the Planet Pool ladies will not have to pay the $2 next weekend, but may be included somehow after that.

Nick

PrinsNick
04-08-2005, 11:21 AM
Timberly<----blabbering know nothing :D

Before you read the rest of this post and take it wrong, let me first say thank you for your input. Now, please read the following keeping in mind that I've got a shit eatin grin on my face as I type this.... I might sound angry, but that's not the case at all... it's just not easy to construe tones on a computer which is bad for me because I've got a really dry, smart ass sense of humor that people online tend to misunderstand.

My verbage, again is wrong. The meaning of what I said, in not so clear terms, is what you said... "The UPA just happes to be the only men's pro association with a tour schedule". I was referring to the calibur of player they "represent" and not so much the size of the UPA and their tour but I didn't do a good job of making my thoughts clear.

My comment about cutting other tours off at the knee's was a quote from someone else's post in reference to what's been stated in other posts. If the tour didn't agree to sanction the UPA then the UPA would schedule tourney's on the same date as the tour that didn't sanction them. Again, I know nothing except for what people tell me and some people here have said that this has happened to them.

I'm just going to sit back and keep my trap shut because I can't for the life of me verbalize what's in my thoughts the correct way. Not to mention, as I've already stated, I've been away from pool for a long time and I'm really not "in the know" about any of this. All I know is that I support what MJ and everyone else is doing to make this work. I've at least managed to get that point across and I'll leave it at that. :cool:

BTW Nick, I should be seeing you on the 30th... I'll buy you a beer but I ain't buying you that austrailian rum stuff! I'm only going to spectate but I might bring a friend along to play in the tourney that weekend....

T

Kimberly-With-A-T,

I wasn't rapping you over the knuckles at all. :p I know you are just getting back into the swing of the pool world, but I just wanted to point out to other people who are reading the posts that the UPA is not as powerful as you made them sound. I know you meant they are the "biggest" because they have all the biggest players, but in reality, the UPA has a long way to go to gain the respect of all the major players in the pool industry. I must hand it to them for hanging in there, though. I really believed they'd be history after the first year or so. I was so totally disgusted with their first event in Hampton, VA in 2003, but then again, I'm hyper-critical because of the way we run the Planet Pool Tour.

As for Hagerstown at the end of the month, I will not accept any excuse from you for not coming. I want my beer! I have a bottle of that Austrian rum that I could bring along if you're brave... ;) And I'd be able to knock Landshark off her feet with the smell again...

Now sit back and shut your trap! :eek: Just kidding! :D

landshark77
04-08-2005, 11:25 AM
And I'd be able to knock Landshark off her feet with the smell again...


WOW! I can STILL smell it, LMAO! :p :p :p

Black-Balled
04-08-2005, 12:08 PM
LS,

Since this is still very new and since the other tours who are currently part of NUTS do not have separate women's tours like ours, we are still trying to decide what to do. We will discuss this at Break Time in Salisbury and get some input from the ladies. As it stands right now, the Planet Pool ladies will not have to pay the $2 next weekend, but may be included somehow after that.

Nick

Let me tell you how it's goina be. Any lady who wants to be eligible for nuts benefits will need to pay entry and the$2 and get in the open event as opposed to the ladie's event.nuts :D

landshark77
04-08-2005, 12:15 PM
Let me tell you how it's goina be. Any lady who wants to be eligible for nuts benefits will need to pay entry and the$2 and get in the open event as opposed to the ladie's event.nuts :D

And that is fine, BUT people can not bypass the WPBA. Pro women play on these regional tours. As someone pointed out to me most of the regionals do not have a separate woman’s division, so I say playing in PP's open event is fair, but what if one of the ones that q'ed is a WPBA touring pro. The WPBA needs to be in on this from the beginning. If not, I see another playing ban… as well as the loss of some great players on the regional tours. Both the ladies and the regional tours will suffer. I maybe making a bigger fuss than need be, but the situation needs to be addressed, IMO.

Timberly
04-08-2005, 12:22 PM
N.U.T.S. is a pipe dream. No one I have met in pool has the cash to pay for the N.U.T.S. overhead. Ha Ha Ha What a joke! :)

"Gremlin"
Way to think positive and hope for the best.... thank goodness not everyone is as negative thinking as you are.

landshark77
04-08-2005, 12:25 PM
Way to think positive and hope for the best.... thank goodness not everyone is as negative thinking as you are.

pssst!

Becareful what you say to Gremlin...you could be the #10 on his "ignorant" list. :eek:

:D :D :D :D :D

PrinsNick
04-08-2005, 12:37 PM
Hello,

From an administrative stand point N.U.T.S. is a nightmare. How the hell do any of you expect cash starved pool tours to pay for the administrative costs of such an operation? Are you going to ask for favors? Pool tours have been running on hand outs while the added money keeps dropping because the promoters take more and more for themselves. :cool:

One thing for sure if you can’t get the scores for the matches how do you think any of these so called pool promoters are going to keep track of official records. N.U.T.S. is a pipe dream. No one I have met in pool has the cash to pay for the N.U.T.S. overhead. Ha Ha Ha What a joke! :)

"Gremlin"

Not really. You must remember, the NUTS is not a pool tour in and of itself trying to put together a non-existing 300 tournaments per year. We are asking our players an extra $2 per tournament, for which they get a chance to be part of something much bigger (all members of NUTS member tours will also get additional benefits such as hotel discounts, etc). 300 x 2 x 50 (avg entries per event) + sponsorships will cover the regional and national qualifier events and the paid spots into televised events.

Also, we don't need scores from the matches, just the names of the 8 qualifiers per local event. As for the rest, don't you worry about it. There are actually people in the pool world who know what they are doing... :cool:

jjinfla
04-08-2005, 12:38 PM
I'm all for letting the women play with NUTS.

Jake

Jack Flanagan
04-08-2005, 12:40 PM
If there was ever a book that applies to this thread, it's "Who Moved My Cheese." It's definitely the NUTS. :D

http://www.whomovedmycheese.com/products/productDetails.asp?myCursor=1&categoryID=1&parentCatID=4

JMHO, FWIW! :p

JAM

Good one, JAM,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Rude Dog
04-08-2005, 12:49 PM
All I can say is, I really hope this works out because I, like many others in this forum, am a pool player. This may not be the cure all for pool but it's definitely heading us in the right direction. To all the people that sit around and criticize this idea, go start your own tour or orginization and run it the way you want. And Gremlin, you really are an asshole. You sit around and talk shit about ideas of others and then you wonder why you get slammed? Get your head out of your ass and wake up. You take pictures, right? Well, picture this; You wake up one day and there's no W.P.B.A. because years ago some idiot like you said, "The W.P.B.A. is a pipe dream, it won't work, there's no money, the women can't play." Then what would you be doing with that camera of yours? LOL, don't answer that one. Good luck to you Mike Janis, this is a great idea you have and all players should be appreciating your efforts. Peace, John.

DaveK
04-08-2005, 12:52 PM
Hello,

From an administrative stand point N.U.T.S. is a nightmare. How the hell do any of you expect cash starved pool tours to pay for the administrative costs of such an operation? Are you going to ask for favors? Pool tours have been running on hand outs while the added money keeps dropping because the promoters take more and more for themselves. :cool:

One thing for sure if you can’t get the scores for the matches how do you think any of these so called pool promoters are going to keep track of official records. N.U.T.S. is a pipe dream. No one I have met in pool has the cash to pay for the N.U.T.S. overhead. Ha Ha Ha What a joke! :)

"Gremlin"

You're saying that pool players do not have an extra $2.00 in their pockets when they sigh up for a $50 entry fee tour event ?

When did you have time, and where did you get the information, to perform the due dilligence necessary to make a statement like "No one I have met in pool has the cash to pay for the N.U.T.S. overhead" ? Or are you just speculating ?

Dave

chefjeff
04-08-2005, 12:57 PM
If there was ever a book that applies to this thread, it's "Who Moved My Cheese." It's definitely the NUTS. :D

http://www.whomovedmycheese.com/products/productDetails.asp?myCursor=1&categoryID=1&parentCatID=4

JMHO, FWIW! :p

JAM

Great read, JAM. That book helped my biz about 3 years ago when major changes came about.

Remember though....the SECOND mouse gets the cheese. :p

Jeff Livingston

DaveK
04-08-2005, 01:03 PM
.... And Gremlin, you really are an asshole. ...

Just thought this might bear repeating ... I know I wanted to read this truth again !

Dave

landshark77
04-08-2005, 01:07 PM
.... I know I wanted to read this truth again !

Dave

"LIAR" :D :D :D :D

landshark77
04-08-2005, 01:27 PM
N.U.T.S. came from landsharks77 own
version of reality! :D

See, even when I am ignored I am thought of. :p

sixpack
04-08-2005, 01:28 PM
PrinsNick,
- Stuff Deleted -

...are the only promotion people I have met in pool I would trust with my money....

- Stuff Deleted -



It's $2. It's not your life's savings.

I would gladly pay an additional $2 in a $50 tournament to have the chance for myself or even fellow competitors to play at the next level. Especially if it means having more local tourneys. AND I will gladly pay the extra $2 to give someone who is trying to do something positive for pool a chance to succeed. That's one bottle of water at Teacherman's place. If Mike thinks he can pull it off, I say let him give it the old college try.

Cheers,
Regas

PrinsNick
04-08-2005, 01:41 PM
PrinsNick,

Andy Lincoln, Charlie Williams, Allen Hopkins, Eve, Trish and Holly (THE THREE CATS) John DiToro an TK are the only promotion people I have met in pool I would trust with my money. You use the word we an awful lot, we, who the hell is we?

The Televised events? Who is going to take there valuable time to watch televised evnts of people other than the best players? Maybe if it was a member of my family or a close friend. N.U.T.S. came from landsharks77 own
version of reality! :D N.U.T.S. has no relation to reality.

I am a WPBA & UPA fan. I am against any BS that effects the WPBA Regional tour system in anyway. I am interested in world pool because pool is a world game. All N.U.T.S. is, pool according to MJ. I am not buying into it.

Gremlin,

Funny you should mention that Andy Lincoln is one of the few people you would trust with your money because Andy doesn't actually handle the Planet Pool money--I do. Andy Lincoln, Ceci Strain (nineballcc on here) and myself are a team, so if you praise Andy, then in effect you are praising all three of us.

As for "we," I was referring to the folks involved in the NUTS endeavor, i.e. the tour operators who are part of the NUTS (that includes Andy Lincoln, BTW).

All due respect, I think you are grossly misinformed. The WPBA does not have a "regional tour system," and neither does the UPA. The WPBA only sanctions qualifier events, of which our tour will be hosting some. And in case you don't know, the THREE CATS are no longer in the tour operator business, so I guess it is all up to Andy Lincoln and TK. ;)

frankncali
04-08-2005, 02:02 PM
Grem
THeres a lot for a fan. I mean how many people are there that are pool
fans that dont play. Not many. Thats who this is targeting --the players.

If it is able to get off the ground for a couple years the players (fans) benefit
due to the discounts and more local and regional events. The top players
are all going to have to compete in the various levels so more people will have a chance to view them. I dont think that the top players will be able to
ignore 12 events within a structure that shows promise. Now theres an
organization that does nothing but undercut the mini events.

Pool is comprised of many average or bad players. Not Pros. As soon as the Pros realize this fact they will be better off. With this they will have a schedule and can schedule exhibitions and challenge matches at various
rooms near or in the sites. They need to give a little to get the pool
public interested in them. After all not many people really know that much about the players.
Charlie Bryant is connecting via the APA in Houston and really has built a
nice fan base. He is well liked and due to the recent exposure in BD more people will follow.
Too many people in the past have been like you are now and are asking what is in it right now. You said it yourself that the minis are fading. That is correct so why not take a chance on a new choice that could increase
their attendence. If nothing else the organizational 2 bucks gets Hotel
discounts and other exposure for the players.

I do remember when the Ladies tour started as I had a friend on it and followed it. I went to several events and for a while heard all the talk of it not making it. They struggled and then came a sponsor or two. Then they
started getting on ESPN. Then fans became fans. They saw the long road and now have a fairly well organized system. Is the product that great?
You will have to answer that yourself but I think the end result of the players
being more accessable and personable makes the tour a product.

You have a very open mind about the ladys tour why not this one. Why not think of some problems you see and ask about them so the powers that be
might be able to eliminate them.
If this is a success then pool as a whole will benefit. Thats the womens tour all the way to the pool media.




Dave,

Just what I said N.U.T.S. is a player oriented idea that has nothing for a fan or a spectator who doesn't play on one of the tours. Who is going to watch it
on TV? When I have a choice to play pool or go to a baseball game I go to baseball. I am a season ticket holder now.

For you I will repeat it one more time if you can't keep the scores in pool how the hell are you going to keep track of ten or fifteen thousand names in N.U.T.S. If it works out I will be very surprised. Oh, who are you to ask? :p

Read this nothing there for a fan? Fans aren't mentioned. Just another promoter Idea.

(As proof of the concept, Janis said that each participating regional tour will send their top eight players to an event soon to be scheduled in or around September of this year. The overall winner of the September event will win lodging and a 5000 entry into Allen Hopkins Skin Game which will be televised just as it was last year.)

(Janis also indicated that he already has interest from companies outside of the billiards industry and named The ACCOR Hotel Systems as already signing on with a promotional discount to all pool players that stay at their Red Roof Inn Hotels and a commision on those rooms that will be routed back into the N.U.T.S. system.)

"Gremlin"

PrinsNick
04-08-2005, 02:05 PM
It's for the players who are interested but no *****ing in this forum if you get screwed. :D

Nobody is going to get screwed. Mike Janis is well-respected in the pool world and has been running the Viking tour for years. The Viking tour is the one regional tour with the most coverage nationwide. Nobody accomplishes that without at least a high level of integrity.

Enjoy the weekend and let us worry about making the NUTS work.

Rude Dog
04-08-2005, 03:31 PM
PrinsNick,

I am off on the weekend....................
"Gremlin"
You're OFF everyday Gremlin.

vapoolplayer
04-08-2005, 04:05 PM
Hey VAP if that confuses you then you have no clue at all.

And if you can't debate the logic then of course you must attack the person.

Just the name N.U.T.S. lends itself to ridicule. I don't see TV accepting that name.

As for me being a poolplayer - hell no - I'm a donator at the local tournaments. But I do enjoy it. But last year I did win over $1500 in local tournaments. Not bad for an old guy who doesn't take the game all that seriously.

Why do you state that I am being critical of the women when all I am doing is being realistic? How many of them actually do get on TV? But they all want to don't they? How many of them would play if there was no TV?

This reminds me of an old class B Mickey Rooney movie where they are sitting around saying: you can sing, I can dance we have friends who can help and I know where there is an old barn we can fix up and they pull off a million dollar extravaganza and don't have two quarters between them.

Okay VAP, do you really think a TD is going to go out and collect money to turn it over to N.U.T.S. That would be nuts. Hell, even the policy runners in Chi Town got a cut of the action. And it turned out to be quite a big cut on those twenty five cent bets.

But who knows, maybe Mike can pull it off. It all depends on what the TD's think, not what you or I think.

Jake

ok, i'm going to make this as simple as i can for you, since you obviously don't know when you're being insulted..........

it didn't surprise me, because you're a dumbass.

i can debate the subject all day (if you want to compare IQ, you're gonna need weight) but.....again, you're a dumbass, so i will insult the dumbass.

the promoters aren't goint to "ask" for anything. they just incorporate it into their tournament fees. there are honest people out there.

and since you aren't a "pool player" please don't make any more comments about poolplayers (male or female) as you obviously have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the WPBA players or anyone else..............don't worry, none of us here expect you to understand.


again just to make it clear YOU ARE A DUMBASS...............i'm attacking the person, because the person asked for it...........dumbass.

VAP

Jon
04-08-2005, 04:17 PM
Vap,

I bet ya can't spell dumbass... :p :D

Superstroke
04-08-2005, 04:22 PM
Gremlin, do you ever compete?
If that is a yes, then all your input is going to be considered valid.
If you don't compete, then why don't you leave the discussion to the people that WANT to compete, or who are interested in bettering the game for the players.

If you managed to PAY ATTENTION, then you'd understand that no one on this board is gonna care that you don't come out and by a ticket. So you can stop with the whole disgruntled fan routine.

Just cause you have a couple pictures with yourself and some pros, does not mean that they are your friends, and that they like you. They do it cause you scare them, and they don't want to make you feel bad. BECAUSE YOU COME OUT AND SPEND MONEY ON THEIR STUFF!!!

Otherwise, they would have told you to back off a long time ago.

I mean for real...going to a tournament, with a tshirt with the players face on it, following them around the whole tournament? Get a grip!

CHEERS TO THAT ONE BABY!!!!!
oh yeah....did i forget to mention...CHEERS
wait wait wait..........CHEERS!
CHEERIO?!?!?
We bring you this special news bulletin.................CHEERS!

GIVE ME A C............................C (THE CROWD)
GIVE ME AN H...........................H
GIVE ME AN E...........................E
GIVE ME ANOTHER E..................E
GIVE ME AN R...........................R
GIVE ME AN S...........................S

WHAT'S THAT SPELL.............

vapoolplayer
04-08-2005, 04:25 PM
Vap,

I bet ya can't spell dumbass... :p :D

oh no, here we go again............... :D

VAP

Jon
04-08-2005, 04:37 PM
Here what goes again??? :D

I didn't say anything :D

Oh, just go and pick on the dumbass again :p :D

landshark77
04-08-2005, 05:04 PM
I mean for real...going to a tournament, with a tshirt with the players face on it, following them around the whole tournament? Get a grip!



HEY! I resemble that remark!!!! :mad: :mad:

ROTFLMAO! (Yep this pic will NEVER get old!!! :D )

landshark77
04-08-2005, 05:07 PM
ok, i'm going to make this as simple as i can for you, since you obviously don't know when you're being insulted..........

it didn't surprise me, because you're a dumbass.


i can debate the subject all day (if you want to compare IQ, you're gonna need weight) but.....again, you're a dumbass, so i will insult the dumbass.

the promoters aren't goint to "ask" for anything. they just incorporate it into their tournament fees. there are honest people out there.

and since you aren't a "pool player" please don't make any more comments about poolplayers (male or female) as you obviously have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the WPBA players or anyone else..............don't worry, none of us here expect you to understand.


again just to make it clear YOU ARE A DUMBASS...............i'm attacking the person, because the person asked for it...........dumbass.

VAP

TAP TAP TAP TAP! :D

jjinfla
04-08-2005, 05:50 PM
Landshark you got guts posting that picture.

Which one is the alpha dog?

Jake

jjinfla
04-08-2005, 06:16 PM
Next question:

Is it legal? Since there is no membership application to NUTS that means there is no membership. No membership = no organization = no say in how operations are run.

So then how can people be forced to donate $2 to a non-existing organization? If I, or Gremlin, or anyone, want to play in a tournament, but care less about NUTS, then why should we be forced to donate money to them? Them being Mike Janis.

I would prefer to place the $2 on double zero.

Sure sounds like a scam to me.

And just what did TK and John DiToro say when this plan was passed by them?

Surely, Mike Janis approached all the TD's before he decided to go public so he knows what their opinion is.

I know where there is some prime swamp land near DeLand Florida that I can sell you.

Jake

landshark77
04-08-2005, 06:19 PM
Landshark you got guts posting that picture.

Jake, if you would pull your head outta your butt you would know that picture has been posted on this message board several times. Glad to see that you pay attention to what is going on. No wonder you are so knowledgeable. :rolleyes:

Which one is the alpha dog?

And please don't even try to play like you are in this picture. You are the only dog...however, an alpha you are not. :eek:

Timberly
04-08-2005, 06:49 PM
I obviously can't keep my trap shut as promised.... :rolleyes:

We already know that tours are very interested in this and have already signed up. They're currently marketing this to sponsors as we speak. This forum is "the place" to go when anyone wants to know what people in the pool world think. If you guys don't think sponsors aren't reading this to get a feel for it, you're mistaken.

How about we take the thread back and talk about matters at hand? Let the people that aren't mature enough to voice their concerns in an adult manner take their derrogatory comments to another thread. I have no problem with people of a different opinion speaking their minds so long as they do it in a way that adults can debate the good & the bad of both sides and ultimately agree to disagree if need be. Lets leave the kids behind and ignore their bad behaviour shall we?

As I said last night, I was given a tidbit or two that I promised to keep mum on. However, I do want to say that someone here asked a question that pertains to what I promised to keep mum on & it will be answered by MJ next week....they're going to like the answer he has.


Peace

KBP
04-09-2005, 05:25 AM
Next question:

Is it legal? Since there is no membership application to NUTS that means there is no membership. No membership = no organization = no say in how operations are run.

So then how can people be forced to donate $2 to a non-existing organization? If I, or Gremlin, or anyone, want to play in a tournament, but care less about NUTS, then why should we be forced to donate money to them? Them being Mike Janis.

I would prefer to place the $2 on double zero.

Sure sounds like a scam to me.

And just what did TK and John DiToro say when this plan was passed by them?

Surely, Mike Janis approached all the TD's before he decided to go public so he knows what their opinion is.

I know where there is some prime swamp land near DeLand Florida that I can sell you.

Jake


This is Kay from Fury Tour. Just to let you know....Mike has contacted as many of the tours as he can and we have given our opinion,,,,,at least I have and its good. There is work with every worthwhile project. There is a lot of discussion between us as to how to handle issues. That is the reason for this forum to give everyone a chance to ask questions and situations be worked on.
This is just and FYI for you
Kay Higgins
KBP Fury Amateur 9-Ball Tour

KBP
04-09-2005, 05:31 AM
LS,

Since this is still very new and since the other tours who are currently part of NUTS do not have separate women's tours like ours, we are still trying to decide what to do. We will discuss this at Break Time in Salisbury and get some input from the ladies. As it stands right now, the Planet Pool ladies will not have to pay the $2 next weekend, but may be included somehow after that.

Nick

Nick
I was wondering that too for the Fury Ladies Amateur events. The ladies are really going to be interested in this one too.
Kay
KBP Fury Amateur 9-Ball Tour

KBP
04-09-2005, 05:34 AM
pssst!

Becareful what you say to Gremlin...you could be the #10 on his "ignorant" list. :eek:

:D :D :D :D :D


We could only be so lucky. :D

KBP
04-09-2005, 05:48 AM
Someone said this in there remarks::
1) Most of the tours are not going to want to give up a piece of their share for the betterment of the sport/game.


Hey I own the Kings Bay Promotions, Inc which is the Fury Amateur 9-Ball Tour and yes if it improves the sport and I can see that it will work. I"ll get a big $2 per player from them to do this. The sport has had a bad name from the very begining,,,drinking, gambling in smoke filled rooms. Maybe this would help give a better light on the sport and us. You don't know how many people look oddly at me when I say I promote billiard events. Its not easy out here to help the players have the acces to do what they love and want to do. At this point in my tournaments I wish I had the time to play again but I bust butt to keep expanding and growing this sport. Let's work on the issues that we need to to make this thing work for the growth of the industry and to help these players grow. If we don't get to growing and doing something more the sport may get lost. Face it we are not a popular sport with everyone. Look at golf, football, basketball, baseball, etc and how many people watch it. Bowling is even televised more now so why can't we??? I want this to grow so that my amateurs have a place to excel to. I have players now that tell me that the biggest compliment that I can give them is that they can't play with the amateurs any more. But where do they go when I get to tell them that? No place really because there is no system out there to help them grow.....Now maybe there will be
Kay

jjinfla
04-09-2005, 06:20 AM
This is Kay from Fury Tour. Just to let you know....Mike has contacted as many of the tours as he can and we have given our opinion,,,,,at least I have and its good. There is work with every worthwhile project. There is a lot of discussion between us as to how to handle issues. That is the reason for this forum to give everyone a chance to ask questions and situations be worked on.
This is just and FYI for you
Kay Higgins
KBP Fury Amateur 9-Ball Tour

Hi Kay,

I know a lot of the people who play in your tour down here and I am sure that the top players, Aquino, Wheeler (plays pro), Ross (plays pro), Otto (matches up with pros), Elvis, etc will in all likelyhood be for it. But I don't know about a lot of the others who mainly play for competition with no real chance of winning and only play in a few tournaments. I did ask a couple players about nuts and they gave me a blank stare. Never heard of it. Anyway, you run a fine, popular tour that is growing rapidly. Keep up the good work.

And of course YOU will have to justify the $2 to the State. Might not be a problem, but then Florida laws could be quirky.

Jake

KBP
04-09-2005, 06:33 AM
Hi Kay,

I know a lot of the people who play in your tour down here and I am sure that the top players, Aquino, Wheeler (plays pro), Ross (plays pro), Otto (matches up with pros), Elvis, etc will in all likelyhood be for it. But I don't know about a lot of the others who mainly play for competition with no real chance of winning and only play in a few tournaments. I did ask a couple players about nuts and they gave me a blank stare. Never heard of it. Anyway, you run a fine, popular tour that is growing rapidly. Keep up the good work.

And of course YOU will have to justify the $2 to the State. Might not be a problem, but then Florida laws could be quirky.

Jake


You reallywant to know what upsets me is that some people feel that if players play in the open events and the events that Aquino, Wheeler and Ross play in are open not pro events you automatically say its a pro event and they are too good for the amateur. Hey sometimes I get lucky and make some balls or get a good draw. The word is just getting out about the nuts so most of the players don't know about it and it hasn't been discussed in my tour except with my TD's. I am glad I have a popular tour and I do seem to keep growing and that's what I want. And you'd be surprised at how many of my players want to advance. By the way the way you put YOU will have to justify the $2 to the State sounded like a little bit of a threat. I don't have a problem with Florida laws and have talked to the state on many occassions. Also one note:::: I am Inc out of Ga.
Kay

jjinfla
04-09-2005, 06:34 AM
Why the hell don't you all become touring pros. I am first thing in the morning.
"Gremlin"

Surely you must be mistaken Gremlin. There must be some qualifications to be classified as a pro other than money. Maybe that $100 just entitles you to play in pro tournaments but you would have to finish in the top half to really be a pro. I don't know.

Have you read Lipson's newsletter on the UPA website? Seems they have two contracts with ESPN. The World Summit in New York and the US Pro Tour in LA. Pros will be nuts not to sign up for those events. Who knows, the winner might be the next pool millionaire.

Oh, and thanks for that Superstroke image.

Jake

JAM
04-09-2005, 06:48 AM
Wow, this thread has taken a lot of twists and turns! :eek:

The NUTS concept is brand new to some of us, and it seems like it would make sense to wait and hear what Mike Janis and a few others have to say when they return from Vegas.

It doesn't help to prejudge something before it even comes to fruition. There are some things that have to be ironed out.

One thing I would like to see discussed by the powers-that-be in the coming days would be a set of unified rules. Personally, I do not like the breaker racking their own balls, but that's just me. There are others who may think differently and can justify the pros and cons.

Buddy Hall told me last year that he thinks the loser-breaks format would be a good one in some venues.

Keith McCready likes the alternate break format, which is currently being used by the UPA, as it ensures that each player will get a chance at the table.

Two bucks seems very reasonable to me as far as NUTS tax.

Although it has not been mentioned in this thread, one of my favorite regional tours is the Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour, run by Mike Zuglan, which covers the Northeastern part of the United States.

I'm going to take a wait-and-see stance. With the expertise of Janis, Tucker, Griffin, et al., many of the questions will be answered in due time. Each tour director has encountered all the associated problems that crop up in running a regional tour. Collectively, they may be able to create something which will be attractive and doable. So, in sum, I look forward to reading about the end result, not speculation at this point!

JMHO, FWIW! :p

JAM

jjinfla
04-09-2005, 06:53 AM
No threat intended Kay. Not at all. I just meant more paperwork for you.

Ross, Otto, Tucker, Elvis all play in a small $5 9-ball non-handicap tournament at a local bar here in town and no one cares. It's fun trying to beat them. And the locals do, on a regular basis. Anything can happen in a race to 3. They will most likely be there this afternoon (2pm) but I will be at Bankshot for the benefit for the cancer victim form the APA.

You might want to contact Doc's Place in Belleview and see if he wants to hold one of your events. But there are only 9 Olhousen 9 footers and no liquor, only beer and wine. And limited parking.

That might be too small for the 75+ turnout your stops have been getting.

Jake

jjinfla
04-09-2005, 07:01 AM
Jam,

Women are not supposed to have common sense.

Good post.

Jake

KBP
04-09-2005, 07:22 AM
No threat intended Kay. Not at all. I just meant more paperwork for you.

Ross, Otto, Tucker, Elvis all play in a small $5 9-ball non-handicap tournament at a local bar here in town and no one cares. It's fun trying to beat them. And the locals do, on a regular basis. Anything can happen in a race to 3. They will most likely be there this afternoon (2pm) but I will be at Bankshot for the benefit for the cancer victim form the APA.

You might want to contact Doc's Place in Belleview and see if he wants to hold one of your events. But there are only 9 Olhousen 9 footers and no liquor, only beer and wine. And limited parking.

That might be too small for the 75+ turnout your stops have been getting.

Jake


Jake,
Thanks for the input I'll check on Doc's place. I may have to make it a two day event with only 9 tables but who knows what will come up. Most of the players I have are not big drinkers anyway so the liquor is not an issue
All those guys are great people. Hope you do good at the benefit. Tell Mike I said hi and will see him soon.
Kay

chefjeff
04-09-2005, 09:08 AM
Next question:

So then how can people be forced to donate $2 to a non-existing organization? If I, or Gremlin, or anyone, want to play in a tournament, but care less about NUTS, then why should we be forced to donate money to them?


Jake

Please explain how force is being used against anyone.

Thank you,

Jeff Livingston

chefjeff
04-09-2005, 09:13 AM
. At this point in my tournaments I wish I had the time to play again but I bust butt to keep expanding and growing this sport. Kay

tap tap tap

There's a BIG hint in this post. Anybody guess what it is?

Jeff Livingston

Timberly
04-09-2005, 09:22 AM
So then how can people be forced to donate $2 to a non-existing organization? If I, or Gremlin, or anyone, want to play in a tournament, but care less about NUTS, then why should we be forced to donate money to them? Jake
Just like most everything else in America, you have a CHOICE. Freedom is a beautiful thing. (just don't forget it's not free) Anyway, should you or Gremilin hopefully decide that you don't want to participate, you don't have to. There's plenty of pool rooms out there that have weekly and monthly inhouse tournamnets ran by the pool room. No one said you have to play in the tournaments in the NUTS system. It's that simple.... You seem to be fairly distraught about the whole thing... I'm surprised you haven't haven't already vowed not to play in any tournament that has anything to do with the NUTS system. Might I suggest you do that? You dislike the idea so much and that $2 dollars is going to hurt your wallet so much, why don't you make a vow to yourself to not have anything to do with it? No more stress for you, and no more woe is me over this whole thing posts for us. :rolleyes:

KBP
04-09-2005, 10:29 AM
tap tap tap

There's a BIG hint in this post. Anybody guess what it is?

Jeff Livingston


I don't know what you are implying but I work hard to have good events that people enjoy.
Kay

sixpack
04-09-2005, 11:14 AM
---Stuff aimed at gremlin deleted---

CHEERS TO THAT ONE BABY!!!!!
oh yeah....did i forget to mention...CHEERS
wait wait wait..........CHEERS!
CHEERIO?!?!?
We bring you this special news bulletin.................CHEERS!

GIVE ME A C............................C (THE CROWD)
GIVE ME AN H...........................H
GIVE ME AN E...........................E
GIVE ME ANOTHER E..................E
GIVE ME AN R...........................R
GIVE ME AN S...........................S

WHAT'S THAT SPELL.............

What's your problem with Cheers?

Cheers,
Regas

Superstroke
04-09-2005, 12:39 PM
What's your problem with Cheers?

Cheers,
Regas
I don't have any problem with cheers.
I've watched him flip out numerous times on this forum, and it always struck me funny how he could attack and insult everyone, and then have CHEERS at the end of it all before his name.

kind of like...(example) "You worthless piece of junk!!!! DROP DEAD!!!!!...have a nice day"


Superstroke

jjinfla
04-09-2005, 05:13 PM
Jake, if you would pull your head outta your butt you would know that picture has been posted on this message board several times. Glad to see that you pay attention to what is going on. No wonder you are so knowledgeable. :rolleyes:
And please don't even try to play like you are in this picture. You are the only dog...however, an alpha you are not. :eek:

Landshark and Timberly,

You guys remind me of an old song, "You only hurt the one you really love"

Or should I be thinking of Basic Instinct and a silk scarf?

Now, now, be nice. Remember you are ladies.

Jacob

landshark77
04-09-2005, 06:26 PM
Now, now, be nice. Remember you are ladies.

Jacob

Oh Jacob, yes, I am a lady....I am just wondering where the man is. :rolleyes: He's not here, LOL!

sixpack
04-09-2005, 09:25 PM
I don't have any problem with cheers.
I've watched him flip out numerous times on this forum, and it always struck me funny how he could attack and insult everyone, and then have CHEERS at the end of it all before his name.

kind of like...(example) "You worthless piece of junk!!!! DROP DEAD!!!!!...have a nice day"


Superstroke

Hmmm...Thanks for explaining :) I hadn't noticed that he did that, may have to rethink my signoff...

Cheers,
Regas

jjinfla
04-10-2005, 07:08 AM
Oh Jacob, yes, I am a lady....I am just wondering where the man is. :rolleyes: He's not here, LOL!

Well if you would spend less time on this stupid computer and be out in the real world you would find one. Probably several. A young girl like you should be out having fun on Friday and Saturday nights not talking to a stupid computer. All you will get from the computer is a fat butt.

You need a serious attitude adjustment. The world does not hate you. Nor do I. But then I can't say I like you either. Just a neutral felling I guess. And DC that picture of you and Sarah. It sure does her no good. Looks like you just pulled her away from some bar. Or, is that your intention? Does Barnhart really want to be associated with the image in that picture? You have probably done her irreparable harm.

Go find a job and do something useful with your life. Marry the boss and have 2.1 kids and don't let them anywhere near a pool room.

Jake

chefjeff
04-10-2005, 07:35 AM
I don't know what you are implying but I work hard to have good events that people enjoy.
Kay

Hi Kay,

Here's what I am implying: You put aside your playing, your game, to work harder at creating things other people enjoy AND PAY FOR. Your decision is, to me, a wonderful example of helping the sport, even if it means your personal game slipped somewhat.

Sacrifice? Nah...sounds more like a good trade-off to me, but I don't know you.

I'd be interested to know your motivation for doing this, and what you expect your efforts to create.

Thanks,

Jeff Livingston

MikeJanis
04-11-2005, 04:57 AM
Please see the new thread titles... The NUTS - Mike Janis' - Responses

Copy of my 1st post in the thread below.


Thank You Everyone For Your Inspiring Posts on AZ !!! :-)

I just got back from the BCA (Billiard Congress of America) Trade Show. I started to read over all the posts but couldn't finish at this time. However, in the next few days I will read over each and every post in the other (1st) The N.U.T.S. thread and respond to each and every question as best possible.

Some things everyone should know.......

1. I have been working on the N.U.T.S. for about 2 years and me and the other regional tour operators are very capable of pulling off the entire system.

2. After talking with many billiard industry VIP's. I learned they are also very interested in the concept and they are willing to further discuss their participation.

3. The N.U.T.S. is already working. The regional tours mentioned in the Press Release are involved and I am still negotiating with other tours. The N.U.T.S. will start on specified dates on each regional tour. The dates will be announced later this week.

4. This will be a huge undertaking and it wouldn't be possible without a lot of help and support from the other regional tours and their respective operators, or as many say, "the TD's".

At this time I would like to thank......And let everyone know that this is a combined effort by the following...........

Nick Prinslo and Cici from - The PLANET-POOL TOUR
Planet-Pool was the 1st tour that comitted to this system and it wouldn't be possible without all the past discusions, encouragement and help from Nick.
(Note to Nick - I may have a surprise for you very soon.)

Jose "JAB" Burgos from - The HAMPTON RIDGE TOUR
Jab's faith in my ability and his love for our sport helped a lot in this new venture. When I asked him about joining all he said was, "If you are doing it, I'm in." (Note to JAB - It's not just me, it's we.)

Kay Higgins - from FURY CUES AMATEUR TOURS / KINGS BAY.
Kays hard work and devotion to the growth of our sport should be an inspiration to us all.

Without the above VIP's, the N.U.T.S. would never be possible.

My many THANK'S to everyone that stepped up and got involved in the future of our sport.


Respectfully,

Mike Janis

MikeJanis
04-12-2005, 08:50 AM
Sounds like a fantastic idea.

Question.

If you manage to finish in the top 25% of the TV events. That means that you can no longer participate in the whole qualifying system right? You are just allowed to play in ALL the TV events?

AND... what happens if say, the first 25% is one group of people, and then say...the next 3 tournaments end up being a completely different 25% each tournament.

Wouldn't that fill up all the spots, or is there no limit on how many participate in the TV events?

Just wondering, even though i know that the likelyhood of this happening are basically nill, but you never know.

Good luck with it

SUPERSTAR

Once you get to the TV events you may still comete in the local events but not the regional and national events.

Mj

MikeJanis
04-12-2005, 08:52 AM
i'd just like to take this moment to say mike janis kicks ass........... :D


looks like a GREAT IDEA..........hopefully all the regional tours as well as the UPA will jump on board.

VAP


Thank You !

Next time you go to any of the regional tours that are not currently part of the NUTS, please encourage them to contact me and get on board.

Mj

MikeJanis
04-12-2005, 09:08 AM
I like the tier concept but have a couple questions. Maybe someone can
help me a bit.
Whats a local level event? Which tour type?
Whats a regional level event? Tour ??

Local events are the current regional tour events.

Regional events will be held be eacg regional tour.

So to play in the Regional level you MUST first play in a local level event????

Yes.

What if there are not many near you? How many people would actually
be in this category.

There are many all over the place. Currently AZBilliards is the best place to find out were the events are.

Years ago I used to play the McDermott tour events that
were local out of support to the local rooms and have fun. I cashed very infrequently. Generally I had to take time from work to attend these. Now with local levels I wonder if people will have the time and money.
If you can go straight to the regional level then thats great. I would not want anyone going directly past this level however.
If you fail in one event to finish top 50% you have to return to the local level only- is this correct?

Yes.

The next level is spread out one per quarter per area. Thats good.
I take it this level is one step below the touring pro level.

I like how Mike has left it a bit open for all other tours and promotors to
get aboard. By playing in these events would that stop anyone from
playing in NON NUTS events.

No

Where does the money come from for the TV events?

Mostly Sponsors.

Do you have to join each tour or level with a membership fee? Or a fee to NUTS?

Eacg regional tour has their own tour card fee. The nuts fee is an overiding fee of only $2 each time you play in one of the local level events.

If you are on the local or regional train the events are only 1000 minimum events. Is there a vision of bigger dollar events on these levels.

We would like to see additional monies added to these events. However, it most likely wont happen until a larger corporate sponsor gets on board.

What if you qualify for the next level but dont want to go up? Can you stay
on the other level? Example-- Joe makes a regional level event and
finish top 50% but barely or solidly either way. Joe cant not afford to travel
as a pro but wants to play events. Can he continue to play on the regional
level. Does it just mean that he is eligible for the next level??

Joe or anyone does not have to advance if they don't want to. But they can't stay at events past the regional or national without requalifying after they have played in one of these events during their qualified time.

Also
If Joe makes the top tier but does not finish top 25% he has to start over.
Is this correct? Wouldn't that put very good players back in with the
lower level aspiring players trying to make it to the next level. Would that
take a guys top 5 or top 10 finish from him or worse a win away.

The above ststement is correct. It's the best we can do for now.

Would all players have to go through the qualifying or would NUTS and the
local operators get together and let the top players head to the top or at least a little higher level.

All players will have to go through the qualifying system. NO EXCEPTIONS !

Is this by quarter or by event? The percentages? If you make the Top level
or any level how many events do you get at that level? one?

ONE. You may choose which one you want to play in but you still only get to compete in one.

I think this is a good start and we will see who jumps on the wagon and
who does not. I think it needs some fine tuning but is a great start.
I am not a fan of the NUTS name or ACCOR hotels. The latter is a french owned corporation that I have dealt with in the past.
I do feel that this is closer to the expense level for many of the levels.

Accor Hotels or better know as RED ROOF INN is extending a 12% discount to anyone that stays at Red Roof Inns Nationawide that uses the NUTS CP code. They will also pay anb advertising comission to the NUTS for anyone that stays using that code.

The CP code is CP530832

Please use this code when checking into any RED ROOF INN location or when making your reservations.

With as many players participating on all the levels it seems like it would be easier to attract sponsors.

That's the goal.

MikeJanis
04-12-2005, 09:11 AM
The only other question that comes to my mind, would be, how do foreign players qualify?

Do they have to fly over here and qualify like in the WPBA?

SUPERSTAR

Currently, coming here to play is the only way to qualify. Howevr, if you know of any foreign ours that want to join the NUTS please have them contact me at mikejanis@sbcglobal.net

Mj

MikeJanis
04-12-2005, 09:16 AM
I just finished reading the press release on the main page and this looks like the start of something really good for pool. Although I will never see the bright lights of TV tables it will sure be fun trying.
Mike, Joe and everyone else involved with getting this off the ground should be commended and I truly hope the UPA gets on board because something of this magnitude can really do nothing but help the players.

Just curious to know if there is someone in mind to run this whole thing. Seems like a fairly large endeavor.

Koop


At the moment I am running the show (Mike Janis). However, I am not doing it alone. A board/group of all the regional tour operators ( Mike Janis, Nick Prinslo, Kay Higgins and Jose "JAB" Burgos will talk, vote and decide on how to best hanle the operations for the future.

Mj

larrynj1
04-12-2005, 09:19 AM
"...I just finished reading the press release on the main page and this looks like the start of something really good for pool...."

can someone please provide a link to the above-mentioned press release?
i've been poking around the site looking for this and can't seem to find it. tia.

MikeJanis
04-12-2005, 09:31 AM
And that is fine, BUT people can not bypass the WPBA. Pro women play on these regional tours. As someone pointed out to me most of the regionals do not have a separate woman’s division, so I say playing in PP's open event is fair, but what if one of the ones that q'ed is a WPBA touring pro. The WPBA needs to be in on this from the beginning. If not, I see another playing ban… as well as the loss of some great players on the regional tours. Both the ladies and the regional tours will suffer. I maybe making a bigger fuss than need be, but the situation needs to be addressed, IMO.

This will in no way affect the current particiopation of women in open regional tour events. The only time a conflict may be involved is if a WPBA touring pro gains eligibility to one of the N.U.T.S. televised events. And then it's not event a problem with the NUTS. It is only a problem if the WPBA has a contract with their that excludes one of their players from participation on other televised events. If that happens we will deal with it as best possible.

Mj

Mj

MikeJanis
04-12-2005, 09:49 AM
Next question:

Is it legal? Since there is no membership application to NUTS that means there is no membership. No membership = no organization = no say in how operations are run.

So then how can people be forced to donate $2 to a non-existing organization? If I, or Gremlin, or anyone, want to play in a tournament, but care less about NUTS, then why should we be forced to donate money to them? Them being Mike Janis.

I would prefer to place the $2 on double zero.

Sure sounds like a scam to me.

And just what did TK and John DiToro say when this plan was passed by them?

Surely, Mike Janis approached all the TD's before he decided to go public so he knows what their opinion is.

I know where there is some prime swamp land near DeLand Florida that I can sell you.

Jake

Jake, I don't like to tell people when they are wrong but you are ! Now please don't take that as a personal insult because it is not meant to be.

To start off with the membership does not currently exhist at the player level. The membership exhists at the regional tour level. The $2 collected goes directly to the funding of the N.U.T.S. programs. Currently the NUTS will be sending a player to the televised Skins game at a cost of well over $5K. This money came from somewhere.

As far as TK I did speak with him and Denise. They are still open to the idea but thaey have not decided yet. I didn't give them much time to decide. It is my understanding from them that they will vote on it at their championship event. After that they will make a decision.

I have not spoken with John Ditoro yet. So I have no clue as to what he might say.

Jake, I hope in the near future you will come to understand that the NUTS is designed to enhance cuesports and advance players to a professional level. Players will no longer just pony up an entry fee and be called a professional player. They will have to earn that status.

Jersey
04-12-2005, 09:59 AM
"...I just finished reading the press release on the main page and this looks like the start of something really good for pool...."

can someone please provide a link to the above-mentioned press release?
i've been poking around the site looking for this and can't seem to find it. tia.

Here ya go...

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storyb.cfm?storynum=2627

larrynj1
04-12-2005, 10:02 AM
thanks, jersey. you da man!

KBP
04-12-2005, 10:04 AM
Hi Kay,

Here's what I am implying: You put aside your playing, your game, to work harder at creating things other people enjoy AND PAY FOR. Your decision is, to me, a wonderful example of helping the sport, even if it means your personal game slipped somewhat.

Sacrifice? Nah...sounds more like a good trade-off to me, but I don't know you.

I'd be interested to know your motivation for doing this, and what you expect your efforts to create.

Thanks,

Jeff Livingston

My motivation is to help the sport. I love it that much. When my husband Tim "The Hitman" Higgins played on the Pro Tour in the early and mid 90's I traveled with him to all the events we could make and even ran some single events for the PBT. I was his practice partner, because I shot so lously(at that time) I would hook him and he'd have to really work at his game. We started this to have a place for the up and coming players, along with the want to have fun and learn more players, competitive players and all around players. This all happened when the PBT went defunk and the only place someone could play was an open event and that was where the Pros were. A lot of people (including myself) did not have a place to play between the league stuff, local tournaments and open events with Pros. So we created this for that. I travel wherever I am needed to do an event. I have been home 5 weekends this year. I am not making money at it so that is not the motive. I take $10 out of the membership fee to create a prize fund for the top eight players on the tour in each division to give them cash back. I get sponsors to give me product for the top 8 players in each division. A lot of time and money goes into this. Am I going to get rich doing this....Nope and I don't expect to. This is my motivation. I love the sport.Never could play really good only fair. Look at another post on forums about Anastasia Billiards and you will maybe understand a little bette that I do what I do and I love it.
Kay

landshark77
04-12-2005, 10:07 AM
This will in no way affect the current particiopation of women in open regional tour events. The only time a conflict may be involved is if a WPBA touring pro gains eligibility to one of the N.U.T.S. televised events. And then it's not event a problem with the NUTS. It is only a problem if the WPBA has a contract with their that excludes one of their players from participation on other televised events. If that happens we will deal with it as best possible.

Mj

Mj

Thank you Mike. I am just wondering if it would be beneficial to work with them in this early stage then to wait and see if a WPBA player makes it to the TV rounds and deal with it as best as possible then. I guess I am just a nip-it-in-the-bud kind of person. I surely don't think it would be fair to someone to pay their NUTS fees and tear thru the brackets to find out that their hard work will never pay off because they have hit a legal loop hole with an organization in which they are a member. I otherwise like this concept. :)

chefjeff
04-12-2005, 10:22 AM
My motivation is to help the sport. I love it that much. When my husband Tim "The Hitman" Higgins played on the Pro Tour in the early and mid 90's I traveled with him to all the events we could make and even ran some single events for the PBT. I was his practice partner, because I shot so lously(at that time) I would hook him and he'd have to really work at his game. We started this to have a place for the up and coming players, along with the want to have fun and learn more players, competitive players and all around players. This all happened when the PBT went defunk and the only place someone could play was an open event and that was where the Pros were. A lot of people (including myself) did not have a place to play between the league stuff, local tournaments and open events with Pros. So we created this for that. I travel wherever I am needed to do an event. I have been home 5 weekends this year. I am not making money at it so that is not the motive. I take $10 out of the membership fee to create a prize fund for the top eight players on the tour in each division to give them cash back. I get sponsors to give me product for the top 8 players in each division. A lot of time and money goes into this. Am I going to get rich doing this....Nope and I don't expect to. This is my motivation. I love the sport.Never could play really good only fair. Look at another post on forums about Anastasia Billiards and you will maybe understand a little bette that I do what I do and I love it.
Kay

Thank you, Kay, for your response...and for your hard work.

My hope for you is that you do make money, and lots of it...and are happy as can be. :)

I've started to spread the word here in town about the NUTS. I'd like to suggest that others do the same in their areas of the country. That way, when Mike [talks] to players/promoters, etc, they'll already have at least one exposure to the idea. Sometimes it takes 5 or 6 times to buy into something. We can all help in this endeavor, imho.

Jeff Livingston

MikeJanis
04-12-2005, 11:48 AM
Thank you, Kay, for your response...and for your hard work.

My hope for you is that you do make money, and lots of it...and are happy as can be. :)

I've started to spread the word here in town about the NUTS. I'd like to suggest that others do the same in their areas of the country. That way, when Mike [talks] to players/promoters, etc, they'll already have at least one exposure to the idea. Sometimes it takes 5 or 6 times to buy into something. We can all help in this endeavor, imho.

Jeff Livingston


Spreading the word about the NUTS is extremely appreciated and needed. Please do this as much as possible. May I suggest that someone please start a discussion in as many other pool groups as possible. I suggest the following forums: RSB, InsidePool, BilliardsDigest and so on.

Any help you can give is appreciated.

Thank You,

Mike Janis

KBP
04-12-2005, 07:51 PM
Mike,
I spoke with several of my players at my last stop..They were all very interested. I told them to look it over check on these post and ask questions or contact one of us and we will get answers for them. They had good things to say about it. I will continue to do so.
Kay

KBP
04-12-2005, 08:44 PM
Spreading the word about the NUTS is extremely appreciated and needed. Please do this as much as possible. May I suggest that someone please start a discussion in as many other pool groups as possible. I suggest the following forums: RSB, InsidePool, BilliardsDigest and so on.

Any help you can give is appreciated.

Thank You,

Mike Janis


Mike
Just posted the press release on IP and with request for input. Hope this helps
Kay

MikeJanis
04-13-2005, 12:43 AM
Opionions please.....

Do you think the NUTS should be used to qualify players for other events. Something like a ranking system for the BCA 9-Ball Championships, Derby City Classic, US Open, Glass City Open and other major events until we start running our own televised events.

The benefits to the players could be something like:
Entry fees paid to the above mentioned events
Players seeded into the brackets
Hotel or Travel expenses paid


The above is just a question. Please don't derive anything from it. Your opinions and thoughts count and are very important.

vapoolplayer
04-13-2005, 02:13 AM
Opionions please.....

Do you think the NUTS should be used to qualify players for other events. Something like a ranking system for the BCA 9-Ball Championships, Derby City Classic, US Open, Glass City Open and other major events until we start running our own televised events.

The benefits to the players could be something like:
Entry fees paid to the above mentioned events
Players seeded into the brackets
Hotel or Travel expenses paid


The above is just a question. Please don't derive anything from it. Your opinions and thoughts count and are very important.

i think thats a great idea mike.............although if you're qualifying them into an "open" tournament...........i don't think they should be seeded........but thats an entirely different subject.

but that would be a great thing..........having the national qualifier winners getting paid entry and lodging at a major tourney.......until you get the t.v. nationals up and running.

VAP

MikeJanis
04-13-2005, 01:47 PM
Go NUTS Playing 9-Ball !!!

The Joss NE 9-Ball Tour joined the N.U.T.S. today.

Starting Immediately all Joss NE 9-Ball Tour events will participate in the New Unified Tour System.



I just thought evenryone should know.

Mj

onepocketchump
04-13-2005, 02:19 PM
Oh yeah...one more thought.

If the top 25% are no longer allowed to play in the lower events, what does this mean for the people that use these events to supplement their income.

There are a few players that usually dominate in certain regions and have a greater chance of say finishing in the top 25%. I would assume that the income they gain on the regionals might be worth more to them, when compared to the POSSIBLE income they can achieve when compared to the fields they might encounter at the big time events at the top of the system.

Like how would they feel if they could never go back to those tournaments to make money?

SUPERSTAR

Like their license to steal was revoked? The idea behind this is to create a grassroots system to funnel good players to the top. At the top they will have a solid round of tournaments to rely on to earn the income they desire. If they are not good enough to stay at the top then they will go back down to play again.

I had one WPBA player tell me that she deliberately loses before getting her fourth point each year so that she will never make touring pro status and can play in all the amateur tournaments she wants to. She said she makes more money winning the amateur tournaments than finishing in the middle of the pack in the WPBA events. In the NUTS system she wouldn't be able to do this as she would automatically advance by winning or placing high enough at any particular level. Or, she could go on the merry go-round and advance and decline every quarter which would be nuts. :-)

John

Jack Flanagan
04-13-2005, 02:25 PM
Go NUTS Playing 9-Ball !!!

The Joss NE 9-Ball Tour joined the N.U.T.S. today.

Starting Immediately all Joss NE 9-Ball Tour events will participate in the New Unified Tour System.



I just thought evenryone should know.

Mj

looks like N. U. T. S. has hit the runway and is gathering flight speed,,,

CONGRATULATION !

MikeJanis
04-14-2005, 02:09 AM
looks like N. U. T. S. has hit the runway and is gathering flight speed,,,

CONGRATULATION !



Please fasten your seatbelts and put your chairs in the upright position.

We take off this weekend at the Planet-Pool and the Joss Tour events.

Mj