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swami4u
10-28-2008, 03:41 PM
I'm sitting here thinking.

There is always people looking for games in about every pool hall in the nation. It seems these people are always spread out all over the place (when there is not a DCC/Us Open/ect ect going on) People looking for 5$ 9 ball, 20$ one hole, 1000$ sets, ect.

SO why wouldn't the whole pool community pick 2 pool halls in the nation
to make a weekend action spot? This is a place where people would drive/fly to knowing there is going to be a LARGE gathering of players of ALL LEVELS
without doubt. What player that is truly LOOKING FOR GAMES, would not get 3-5 people together to split gas, and drive 8 hours for a weekend of playing?
The Key is, he would have to know there are going to be others there without doubt. Hell' there could be a mini going on, sweaters looking for side action, and players of all ability's. What self respecting player would not spend 175.00 in travel for a long weekend, if he knew there was 100-1000$ sets to be played???? If you split the travel (flying) with 3, i think you could fly on SW for about 125.00 round trip (pre purchase) + 25% of a hotel room (25 each or so) and very low rates for a car rental for the weekend.(4 people)
If you can drive the cost would go down some from 175.00. Key is to bring 3-4, and split everything.....

People on here could vote on a hall location in these areas.

Central East coast
Central West coast
To start....

That way most people could drive or hop flight and rent a car.
TAR could have a permanent location for streaming action.
You could create a web site' that has a weekly list of people coming.

If word gets around about a hall that is bringing in 20-40 action players a weekend. People will come from all over. It HAS to be consistent! SO people are not showing up to a empty room. Who wants to spend money, and not have anything to sweat/play?????

Everyone wants to go to the DCC for this reason, why not designate a hall for weekly DCC type of action.

Pool hall would need to be a player based place with:

Great tables
Great food
LARGE (needs to have enough tables for the regular customers too)
The desire to stay open! (might be hard to find)
Close to a major airport
And have some clean well priced hotels close by.
LATE HOURS 24 hours would be best (If there is such a beast left)


You could charge a small gate fee, and use that money to bring in 2 or so
Pro players (travel money) Tar could get into sponsoring weekly match ups there also. That would bring in people. MANY MANY more ideas.

I guess i'm curious how many people would travel once a month (most wont have the money or desire to fly every weekend) to see a spectacle like this?
If you knew the following was true

You could fly for around 125.00 round trip
You could stay in a safe, clean motel/hotel for around 30.00 ech
able to watch/play matches from 5$-1000$ sets WITH OUT DOUBT
Able to see good match played by two top pros for 2-5k
many other ideas i haven't listed.


I think there is enough action spread around of all different levels, to support
a weekend gathering like this.


IF you have something CONSTRUCTIVE to add feel free.
Just wondering what peoples take on this would be.

If it was organized RIGHT, would you come???

ironman
10-28-2008, 03:51 PM
I'm sitting here thinking.

There is always people looking for games in about every pool hall in the nation. It seems these people are always spread out all over the place (when there is not a DCC/Us Open/ect ect going on) People looking for 5$ 9 ball, 20$ one hole, 1000$ sets, ect.

SO why wouldn't the whole pool community pick 2 pool halls in the nation
to make a weekend action spot? This is a place where people would drive/fly to knowing there is going to be a LARGE gathering of players of ALL LEVELS
without doubt. What player that is truly LOOKING FOR GAMES, would not get 3-5 people together to split gas, and drive 8 hours for a weekend of playing?
The Key is, he would have to know there are going to be others there without doubt. Hell' there could be a mini going on, sweaters looking for side action, and players of all ability's. What self respecting player would not spend 175.00 in travel for a long weekend, if he knew there was 100-1000$ sets to be played???? If you split the travel (flying) with 3, i think you could fly on SW for about 125.00 round trip (pre purchase) + 25% of a hotel room (25 each or so) and very low rates for a car rental for the weekend.(4 people)
If you can drive the cost would go down some from 175.00. Key is to bring 3-4, and split everything.....

People on here could vote on a hall location in these areas.

Central East coast
Central West coast
To start....

That way most people could drive or hop flight and rent a car.
TAR could have a permanent location for streaming action.
You could create a web site' that has a weekly list of people coming.

If word gets around about a hall that is bringing in 20-40 action players a weekend. People will come from all over. It HAS to be consistent! SO people are not showing up to a empty room. Who wants to spend money, and not have anything to sweat/play?????

Everyone wants to go to the DCC for this reason, why not designate a hall for weekly DCC type of action.

Pool hall would need to be a player based place with:

Great tables
Great food
LARGE (needs to have enough tables for the regular customers too)
The desire to stay open! (might be hard to find)
Close to a major airport
And have some clean well priced hotels close by.
LATE HOURS 24 hours would be best (If there is such a beast left)


You could charge a small gate fee, and use that money to bring in 2 or so
Pro players (travel money) Tar could get into sponsoring weekly match ups there also. That would bring in people. MANY MANY more ideas.

I guess i'm curious how many people would travel once a month (most wont have the money or desire to fly every weekend) to see a spectacle like this?
If you knew the following was true

You could fly for around 125.00 round trip
You could stay in a safe, clean motel/hotel for around 30.00 ech
able to watch/play matches from 5$-1000$ sets WITH OUT DOUBT
Able to see good match played by two top pros for 2-5k
many other ideas i haven't listed.


I think there is enough action spread around of all different levels, to support
a weekend gathering like this.


IF you have something CONSTRUCTIVE to add feel free.
Just wondering what peoples take on this would be.

I respsect your enthusiasm and agree with you in theory, but some others came up with this idea over a year ago and the place barely lasted 6 months.
This place was top shelf and a near perfect place to play, but, the players didn't support it very well and left many scratching their heads.

In this day and age pool isn't supported by pool players, but by leagues and couples who want to get out and have some drinks and bang balls around. They don't really like the pool players and vice versa.

The live streaming seems a good idea, but I don't think the pool playing publec really supports it either.

The answer, I don't really know. Maybe pool will never have the audience needed to get it untracked. This is becoming more obvious to me all the time.

I ceertainly like your idea, and don't mean to be so negative about it. I hope you figure it out. Good luck!!

swami4u
10-28-2008, 04:05 PM
I respsect your enthusiasm and agree with you in theory, but some others came up with this idea over a year ago and the place barely lasted 6 months.
This place was top shelf and a near perfect place to play, but, the players didn't support it very well and left many scratching their heads.

In this day and age pool isn't supported by pool players, but by leagues and couples who want to get out and have some drinks and bang balls around. They don't really like the pool players and vice versa.

The live streaming seems a good idea, but I don't think the pool playing publec really supports it either.

The answer, I don't really know. Maybe pool will never have the audience needed to get it untracked. This is becoming more obvious to me all the time.

I ceertainly like your idea, and don't mean to be so negative about it. I hope you figure it out. Good luck!!


Nah' i read no negitiviy in your post, just the truth.

I think it is doable, but the place would have to be like a circus to hold
peoples interest, and keep them coming back. And most important,
something for everyone to do... from low-dollar JIM up to
money-bags Joe.

CocoboloCowboy
10-28-2008, 04:08 PM
If it was organized RIGHT, would you come???

If it was organized RIGHT, Money Players would come.

swami4u
10-28-2008, 04:20 PM
If it was organized RIGHT, Money Players would come.


I think so. "RIGHT" is what im trying to figure out now. Something
that has the old school feel, with a new way of doing things.
While keeping the bull)@(# out of the whole deal.

Meezer Girl
10-28-2008, 04:38 PM
I was thinking that even though many people would love the opportunity they could find it very difficult to maintain their support on a monthly basis.

Every 3 months may be more doable for more players. I think it may help with the initial and ongoing support you need.

swami4u
10-28-2008, 05:20 PM
I was thinking that even though many people would love the opportunity they could find it very difficult to maintain their support on a monthly basis.

Every 3 months may be more doable for more players. I think it may help with the initial and ongoing support you need.



I agree, same group coming once a month might be asking a bit much.
If one could get a nice rotation of people every week' from different areas that would be good. The best thing to see is repeat visits. If this were setup right, with no bull crap' good games, any b- player++++ within 4 hours or less would come on a weekly basis. (if they have any game/heart at all) If if you found a place in the NY burb's someplace, you would draw from Mass/Conn/DC/VA/PITT/Phil/ECT ECT ECT. That right there is a whole bunch of players within 5 hours! Like i said before, if there is a player that knows 100% there are games to be had, and he/she can't group 3-5 friends for a 5 hour drive...they ain't no dam player. :grin: The other areas farther outside of NY can find cheap hop flights, or just get the tickets from SW with a 2 week advance purchase. I have some really great ideas for events on a weekly basis. I wont get into any of those now. But take my word for it,
it would be a blast...If the promoters could get people off that Azz...:p

Fatboy
10-28-2008, 06:18 PM
I appericate the intent of the OP in this thread but it just isnt going to happen, its a shame that it wouldnt but gambling is fickle and isnt predictable, I have seen slot of $$$ in a room, players everything being right and nothing happens. And I have seen a dead night turn into a amazing note of action out of nowhere, guys catching word and driving over to the poolroom and poof!! out of nowhere its a casino.

Its because of this fickle nature of action, trying to corridnate it just dosent work. its a spontanious thing and feeds on itself, its not a football game with a game clock.

however if you can put something together more power too you!!

swami4u
10-28-2008, 07:58 PM
I appericate the intent of the OP in this thread but it just isnt going to happen, its a shame that it wouldnt but gambling is fickle and isnt predictable, I have seen slot of $$$ in a room, players everything being right and nothing happens. And I have seen a dead night turn into a amazing note of action out of nowhere, guys catching word and driving over to the poolroom and poof!! out of nowhere its a casino.

Its because of this fickle nature of action, trying to corridnate it just dosent work. its a spontanious thing and feeds on itself, its not a football game with a game clock.

however if you can put something together more power too you!!

I just read one of your old threads about the "dieing of pool/what are you doing about it......" Pool as you and i know it is dieing FOR SURE'
But it doesn't have to! I have been thinking this over for a long time!
I understand your idea of spontaneous action in pool rooms. i believe your right about that IN SOME RESPECTS....
I think that is also used allot for a excuse....due to ACTION burnout. People
seek action for so long, and so hard....when its not around they get restless.
(we all been there in one form or another) After sometime they get disgusted,
searching for the old times and that style pool room. After a huge dose of this, they get the Fuk' It's...Blah no action, dam nits, knockers, they start trying to bully kids into 10.00 games...ect ect ect.....When one hits this
mentality, you mention anything positive..they have something negative to say...Pool is doomed, never going to be the same, kids don't care about pool, blah blah blah blah blah! So this is where my thinking takes over. Lets get all these out of action people, shoot them up with a little hope, and create a throw back pool hall! :grin-square: But incorporate everything new and fresh, with the old and bad. The over all environment will seem like a old school type action joint, But the riff raff, crap, will be limited.

(EDIT: just wanted to make sure people dont read this as a negative reply to FatBoy) this is just what i see allot in halls these days. I Basically agree with FB.
I just think with a little old school thinking, and some new fresh ideas, the old and new can meet in the middle, with all begin happy. Is that not good business?
I will always believe that a pool hall can be both....a action spot...and a good spot for normal folks to come and hit balls, have a beer with a laugh!
The big action guys need to step up a little more, and take their turn with some free entertainment. More then is done today.



I'm not going into too much detail on my ideas....But i will throw out one....

Lets say we have a joint in NY, we get 20 REAL action players a weekend.
Plus alot of sweaters/ect ect
We have 1 main showcase game a weekend lets say duel vs archer What ever.... And the country wants to see this match...We have this action network streaming the game. Plus they stream other games going on....
People are all over the rail. Other games happening, mini tournaments,
ect ect. You don't think people are going to get there?

The flip side of this is the every day ball banger' example: They are 15-19 yrs old and coming out to hit some at this local pool hall on sat. night as normal. And they walk into this circus going on. Dam live streams, trick shots begin bet on, watching a few pros play 10 ball for their first time. All the characters around the rail. All the smack talk, ect ect... Then they get a table (these kids) and a pro takes 10 mins (or strong player) to go over, interrupt their game...invite themselves to play a game (with some funny off the wall excuse why im over here). and drill the crap out of the coolest kid in the group. Then show the kid how to hold the dam cue, leave him with a smile on his face...thinking wow who the hell was that masked man. That was cool.

That's how i see the pool hall owner making money
The out of action players making money
The sweaters getting their fix
and dropping seeds on the young players of tommorow. And they will come back next week with 4 new friends to see the crazy guy with a fine stroke.

If something like this ever got done' It would be the part of the
plan for newbies to be included, part of the circus. If a pool hall owner
could be found to do it right, it could be a the whole weekend theme of a pool hall! Old school billiard nights... Where the circus hits town every Fri. Sat. SO in short

Let the pros have a place to come and get action
Setup some action for spectators to watch
invite your normal recreational customers to be part of the circus, thus offering them a brand of entertainment they haven't yet seen.
Make sure the players invite/welcome these people......Instead of making them feel like they could get shot at any miniute....
All is good, the place rolls on late
everyone has a chance at some money..


I know after re-reading this it might seen a bit far fetched. But i think pool hall owners have it back asswords....They think i have 3 types of customers players- leagues- recreational. I say mend them all into one big weekend pot'
and see what happens. It sure kept all of us coming back when we were kids! Show me one player that was in a poolroom young that cant name one player that sticks out in his-her mind as a character, and tell me you didn't as a kid go into the place to hear these guys talk smack at each other all night. The circus is the draw....Bring the circus into town...and all the 3 different playing types all stay happy.....together. I see kids every weekend night hitting balls for a hour, they get frustrated then bored, then its were can we go now. Bring this show into the place. let the action happen, but keep the customers involved' entertained...then real money spenders will return the next week and so on.............

If someone wants to post up........... "yea, but the players wont be bothered with this for under 50.00 a hour, they would rather stand on the wall with their hand in someones pocket......I say you just answered why pool is going south as we speak. And if they cant get with the program, and help support their action spot, i say show them to door. :wink:

swami4u
10-29-2008, 12:35 PM
Just looking for some more input.
Up for the day.

storke
10-29-2008, 02:19 PM
I'm not bashing you but your plan is unrealistic. Mostly because of the reasons Fatboy stated above. What you are purposing is one of the hardest things you could try and pull of in the pool world today. Hell it would be hard enough to start a tournamnent and get them all to show up. Add to that there arent really alot of players/backers that want to gamble. They want action but only when they are getting the best of it. Not to say there arent players without heart out there, but they are the exception.

iba7467
10-29-2008, 02:34 PM
The main reason a steady action room always fails is ...

The MONEY runs out


We had one of the best action rooms in the country in a small town called Boaz, AL for about two months. The only reason this came about was that one player came into $100,000 of nearly free money and decided to put it in action. The first two weekends he lost $35,000 and every road player that had any connections in the AL area came down to try to get a piece of the action.

The owner of the room had some gamble and saw how much business this was bringing into the room. With all the other players in the room waiting to jump on this one guy the owner began to put up sets to get them playing. Often the players started giving weight and playing other guys in the room. The room only had 6 tables decent enough to play on and once I had action going on 5 of them at 4 AM.

The only way something like this works is for gift money to be in the room. I have always enjoyed action and thought I would love to open a "Player's Room" where no table time was charged and the only way to get in was to post up either on the light or on the rail, but this requires someone willing to put up the money.

JoeyA
10-29-2008, 04:20 PM
I was thinking that even though many people would love the opportunity they could find it very difficult to maintain their support on a monthly basis.

Every 3 months may be more doable for more players. I think it may help with the initial and ongoing support you need.

Meezer Girl, I like the quarterly idea as well.

Each quarter, an ACTION WEEKEND should be planned and supported REGIONALLY, probably by a pool room that has both large tables and small tables, with a hell on wheels SHORT TOURNAMENT (SINGLE ELIMINATION, SINGLE GAME, $30 ENTRY FEE, NO OTHER FEES. Tournaments like this draw in the non players because they have a chance to win it. The better players will balk, p*ss and moan about what a crappy tournament it is but will knuckle under and shoot their wad at it as well for fear of missing out on making a good score. A pool tournament where luck and several hundred dollars to be made are the two entrees for the day that will attract the full spectrum of players, including the league players. Since the pool rooms and bars are already supported by the local league players, if you give them a chance they will put up their money to play too. The weekend is when people who have jobs have a little time to spare. You want to cater to the people who have jobs. The pool players will find a way to get there. It is the working man that you have to concentrate on. The pool halls and bars understand that pool leagues are a good thing for their business. They can't and shouldn't [B]regularly displace those paying customers and I don't think there are many pool halls around that could or would accomodate both the leagues and the action hounds.

Too much frequency can kill a good thing.

I like the original poster's idea and just wanted to contribute my thoughts and keep the idea churning.

And in closing: ADVERTISE.........REGULARLY, like the Gulfport, MS one pocket tournament did. (It's sold out and still two weeks away).JoeyA

BigDogatLarge
10-29-2008, 06:00 PM
Meezer girl has the right idea and I think that Kolbys in Tempe, Az and Q-masters in Chesapeake, Va would be the right venues for these events. I am sure Lenny and Matt, respectivly would be able to stream. The winners of the quarterlies could then play in Texas for the yearly finals. Then Justin and Nasty would handle that. Now we have something for us to enjoy. By the way, We are the mainstream.

Dwight

swami4u
10-29-2008, 09:01 PM
Thanks for the thoughts and ideas' I think i can get the 6 From FB in spelling...
And im sure i can get the 5 when it comes to making a point using text! :eek:

And i think Some parts of my point where fuzzy at best!


When i talk strait, i tend to come off cocky' and when i try not to sound
like that, i come off vague....

So here it is in a nut shell....


1: I don't care If the players cry about this or that...If im running this show and they "cant get with the WHOLE program" they can go sit on their a*@! In another better place.
2: The WHOLE idea here is to give the players a HUGE-ACTION JOINT.
That dosen't mean the pool halls income is coming from action players.
If that was the plan, and i owned the joint, i would be broke in a year or less.. Action players DO NOT support the pool hall!
How they would support the pool hall (if they planned to hang around this joint for any time) is by mingling with the d-c-b players when they aren't in action! Giving lessons-showing off some in a few games of 9 ball with some d- players/kids when they aren't in action. Doing challenge matches with ball beaters on the weekends when they have time.
Many other ideas.
If 10 serious action pros would move into area, and support the pool hall,
then they would have a place to play that wont fold up in a year.
I said in my post "bring the circus into town, and the regulars will come out to watch" This is true, and im willing to bet a ton on it.....The regulars are the life blood of the business, and the true players keep them happy like a good gambling partner! Again, if the players aren't willing to put in the effort
to keep the joint full of money, both for pool/and the business, then let them
sit in a empty pool hall again doing nothing.......
3: The whole theme of the pool hall is the action....And EVERY Person gets a feel of it when they come in on the weekends. I have many many ideas how to get regular NON POOL PLAYING people mixed in with the action..Not to fleece them, but to have them enjoy their night in the place!

Think about the movie coyote ugly.... but with a action type feel non stop- FRi-SAt....fast paced fun...games going on. streaming videos online, trick shot table....ect ect ect Many other ideas...im not getting into.

The thing to me is this------
We were all impressed at a younger age with the circus (old action pool rooms) We as kids used to go hang around in there just to watch the spectacle. And wanted to be part of it......(if your older, most of the younger folks maybe missed out on some of this) This is now the theme of my idea! Make the whole pool hall a fast paced action place on the weekends, where anyone can come to join in. If they are in the joint, they are part of it in one way or another....Cant help it! that's the theme!
So in a word' the action players are like the actors that pull in and keep the normal customers coming back..I don't care if i make a penny of the action players, as long as they do their part in keeping the pace fast, loose, and fun for the paying customers.....They do their part, and they get free food drinks time..and always have action around, the hall makes the money off the customers coming from all over, to be part of the spectacle.

Like i said...the circus is in town. Who better to setup a circus then some dam pool players!

Hope that makes my idea more clear.

It would be even more clear if i showed my ideas on how to get all the different people enjoying each others company' and keeping the pace electric on the weekends. That i need to save until maybe one day it can be tried. :smile:

JoeyA
10-30-2008, 07:11 AM
So in a word' the action players are like the actors that pull in and keep the normal customers coming back..I don't care if i make a penny of the action players, as long as they do their part in keeping the pace fast, loose, and fun for the paying customers.....They do their part, and they get free food drinks time..and always have action around, the hall makes the money off the customers coming from all over, to be part of the spectacle.

Like i said...the circus is in town. Who better to setup a circus then some dam pool players!

Hope that makes my idea more clear.

It would be even more clear if i showed my ideas on how to get all the different people enjoying each others company' and keeping the pace electric on the weekends. That i need to save until maybe one day it can be tried. :smile:

YOu must be Lambert's reincarnation. He loved pool players no matter what the size of their bankroll was. Lambert was a successful pool room owner in Baton Rouge, LA who owned a couple of pool halls and put some of your ideas into play for at least a few years. RIP LAmbert.

JoeyA

swami4u
10-30-2008, 12:31 PM
YOu must be Lambert's reincarnation. He loved pool players no matter what the size of their bankroll was. Lambert was a successful pool room owner in Baton Rouge, LA who owned a couple of pool halls and put some of your ideas into play for at least a few years. RIP LAmbert.

JoeyA


Well it just feels (to me) like it would work. There are a Ton of themed places in the world. The cream of the crop IMHO Disney World. Another great
example is Vegas. So if i were to ever get into the position to manage a place, I would setup the pool hall on the weekends... themed. The theme is to pull in good solid paying customers, for a weekend party. The employees are all part of the theme.....And the players play their part also...If they want to keep a HUGE action place going. I think LA would be the ideal spot. But the theme would have to change allot, things in that type of town come and go very fast....Just need to stay fresh with new idea's to keep people coming back.

Its not the game of pool that's fading...Its the room owners with their stuck in the past attitudes (allot of the time) that sinks them. I say run the place
like its the 60's-70's....and incorporate the best modern touches you can.
And most important, give the place a cheers type of attitude for all that enter the place. Keep the players playing, the customers entertained...

Some people just don't understand why casinos are like they are...

Casinos are a classic example of how fast paced places keep people having fun,spending money.....Its the lights, bell's, whistles, the unexpected, the attitude, ect ect ...... This keeps peoples minds busy, and gives a feeling
of celebration 24/7 (along with Allot of other things) It's really simple...
Who wants to go hang out on the weekend in a smoke filled pool hall with
click click click as the main entertainment. ME! But not the other 99% of the spending public. You need to find a way to bring it all together. Keep the true players in action, (allot of action....don't think that is second) And set a stage for youngsters to learn the game. And have a place where all can come
if just for a Friday night, and be part of the action. They will come back again and again......Just got to keep the place fun.