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View Full Version : 1 Stroke Practice: Aiming While "Up". No grinding!


JimS
10-29-2008, 05:18 AM
UnknownPro put up a post a while back that he thought one of the most effective practice methods was to aim while standing, get down on the shot, take one practice stroke with NO lateral or horizontal movement allowed, and shoot. If the shot didn't look right when you get down then you MUST get back up and go through the pre-shot routine again.

I decided to try that method of practice/aiming and I am amazed at the improvement in my play. Absolutely amazed. Learning to truly aim while standing is helping my accuracy tremendously!!!! It forces me to learn to really aim while up and I had not done that in the past. My aiming while up consisted of a cursery glance at the situation.

I'm shooting with much more confidence since when I get down on the shot I'm ready to pot the ball. No having to look for a contact point, raise and lower my head looking for the ghost ball or the right angle to the pocket.. it's all done and all I have to do is check my tip position on the cb, do a couple practice strokes to loosen the arm and go.

I used to do half an dozen or more very tentative practice strokes and stay down on the shot for 30 seconds or more "grinding" out the aim. (grinding is UnknownPro's term and it fits!) I'd often get so confused by looking for the ghost ball, the contact point, the angle, the line to the pocket, the overlap, the edge to center and all the other aiming stuff I had tried to do while down on the shot... that I'd get dizzy!

I'm making a much higher percentage of shots than I previously did and I'm easily drilling many shots that I used to agonize over. And, shooting them over and over, grinding them out, aiming while down on the shot until I'd get dizzy.

Perhaps even more inportant is that my stroke is now much more solid and firm with the hesitation coming from lack of confidence in the shot.. which would cause me to shoot weakly, not follow through completely or try to steer the shot.

So... this is not the answer to playing like a pool god but it sure has made my pool practice much .... I mean MUCH, more fun and MUCH more successful. Maybe it can help someone else enjoy the game a little more.

Best thing I"ve learned yet in 9 years of "grinding".

Thanks to Unknownpro... where ever you are... and who ever you are. Kind of like the Lone freakin Ranger... he's here, does his good deed, and he's off into the unknown to do more good work. "Who was that masked man?" :groucho:

catscradle
10-29-2008, 05:28 AM
I didn't read that post, but that is the way many books I've read and videos I've watched have recommended and it is what I TRY to do. Decide while standing where you're going to hit the cueball, how hard you're going to hit it, and what line you need to be on; then when you get down the only thing you think about is execution of that plan, no aiming adjustments, no change of mind where to hit the cueball, nothing except execution. If you have doubts, get up and start over. I can't say I always follow that method, but I strive to. I'm more likely to get half-way up to adjust the position of my feet, it is kind of cheating on the technique but it is a habit I've developed.

BTW, did the "unknownpro" leave a silver bullet behind when he left? :smile:

Williebetmore
10-29-2008, 06:04 AM
Jim,
Mark Wilson has a similar drill that is in phase 2 of a 3 phase program; but he requires that you take NO practice strokes. You are allowed a very little minor adjustment when down; but if it is more than very minor, you must get back up and start over. It really was no fun to do the drill (somewhat tedious and uncomfortable); but it resulted in significant improvement. The pre-shot routine, aiming, and alignment all improve with this drill.

JoeW
10-29-2008, 06:17 AM
I too tried Unknown Pro's one stroke approach and I too found that it has significantly improved my game. It is a great idea for those who have sound mechanics.

UnknownPro also suggested that when playing the Ghost that he /she also re-racks after every miss. This too is a great idea. I did not like it at first but it is a great way to practice. After some thought on the matter here is what I concluded. Re-racking is a form of punishment for missing. This does not teach you anything. What it does is make you search for another way to run the rack. What I found is that it requires more focused concentration. When you run the rack (or pocket more balls than last time) this is the reward and whatever you did to get a higher run tends to stay with you.

Using one stroke and forced re-racking I have started to run multiple racks in one session so these are very powerful techniques.

UnknownPro also dropped a one liner, aim with the cue tip or something similar. This too is a helpful technique as I now find that I am much more concerned with what the CB will do and this has improved my game.

Indeed -- Who is that masked man or masked woman? :thumbup:

Andrew Manning
10-29-2008, 06:27 AM
UnknownPro put up a post a while back that he thought one of the most effective practice methods was to aim while standing, get down on the shot, take one practice stroke with NO lateral or horizontal movement allowed, and shoot. If the shot didn't look right when you get down then you MUST get back up and go through the pre-shot routine again.

I decided to try that method of practice/aiming and I am amazed at the improvement in my play. Absolutely amazed. Learning to truly aim while standing is helping my accuracy tremendously!!!! It forces me to learn to really aim while up and I had not done that in the past. My aiming while up consisted of a cursery glance at the situation.

I'm shooting with much more confidence since when I get down on the shot I'm ready to pot the ball. No having to look for a contact point, raise and lower my head looking for the ghost ball or the right angle to the pocket.. it's all done and all I have to do is check my tip position on the cb, do a couple practice strokes to loosen the arm and go.

I used to do half an dozen or more very tentative practice strokes and stay down on the shot for 30 seconds or more "grinding" out the aim. (grinding is UnknownPro's term and it fits!) I'd often get so confused by looking for the ghost ball, the contact point, the angle, the line to the pocket, the overlap, the edge to center and all the other aiming stuff I had tried to do while down on the shot... that I'd get dizzy!

I'm making a much higher percentage of shots than I previously did and I'm easily drilling many shots that I used to agonize over. And, shooting them over and over, grinding them out, aiming while down on the shot until I'd get dizzy.

Perhaps even more inportant is that my stroke is now much more solid and firm with the hesitation coming from lack of confidence in the shot.. which would cause me to shoot weakly, not follow through completely or try to steer the shot.

So... this is not the answer to playing like a pool god but it sure has made my pool practice much .... I mean MUCH, more fun and MUCH more successful. Maybe it can help someone else enjoy the game a little more.

Best thing I"ve learned yet in 9 years of "grinding".

Thanks to Unknownpro... where ever you are... and who ever you are. Kind of like the Lone freakin Ranger... he's here, does his good deed, and he's off into the unknown to do more good work. "Who was that masked man?" :groucho:

Thanks for sharing your experience; based on this glowing recommendation I'm going to try this now. I didn't see unknownpro's post where he recommended this, but it's a cool idea. Now that I think about it, I think many of my misses are due to getting down out of line and then trying to "grind" my way to the right line. I've often heard and repeated that all the decisions should be made while standing, but I never really thought to extend that to the aim itself. I've always tried to approach the shot on line, but I never thought about training myself to do it with no adjustments so I can be more accurate about it in game situations.

-Andrew

JimS
10-29-2008, 06:43 AM
:eek: Somtimes I'd get down so far out of line that while "grinding" and trying to find the right angle I'd get so far off balance that I'd dammed near fall over. :yikes:

I'd have to support my body with my bridge hand and that just is not cool. It's just not cool. :thud: :nono:

JoeW
10-29-2008, 06:44 AM
Here is a link to the original thread with UnknownPro's comments at posts 28 and 33. There must also be a previous one but you will have to look.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=112649

JimS
10-29-2008, 06:48 AM
aim with the cue tip

Indeed -- Who is that masked man or masked woman? :thumbup:

I've been trying to figure out exactly what that means.. aiming with the cue tip. How do I aim w/the cue tip when shooting w/low left.. for instance?

It just hasn't yet computed for me. I'm stuck, can't move the cursor and need to reboot on this idea. :groucho: (the :groucho: icon/smilie just "FITS" for everything. ... imo )

And!!!!! Has it computed for anybody how he, or as JoeW has noted, maybe she, has really threw in a little prodding statment that got me really interested in practicing this method by saying: "I try to never allow time for it when practicing. Probably only really possible for some pro level players." My inner response was an egoistic "oh yeah! Well we'lll just see who's pro level here! By golly!! Hurrrmmph! Pro level huh? Well watch this Mr. un-freakin-knownproski!" Pure genius Mr/Ms unknownpro!! Pure genius!! Beyond the normal amount of knowledge of the working of the human psyche and what it takes to motivate.

So thanks again to the Lone Freakin UnknownPro for the little electric prod! :groucho:

JoeW
10-29-2008, 06:50 AM
Here is what works for me Jim.
After the aim line has been established I place my right foot beside the line with my shoulder over the line. After bending over, any required movement is with my butt (my ass). If I feel off balance because too much movement is required then I have to stand up and start over.

My stance is similar to a snooker player so for some people it might be placing the foot (or toe) on the line. In whatever way is used, the shoulder on the line is of primary importance for a good stroke.

JoeW
10-29-2008, 06:57 AM
It has taken me a few weeks to figure this out Jim and my take may not be right. I am sure that it we could get UnknownPro to elaborate it would help.

Anyway, I have found that many pros from different countries begin their stroking with the cue tip on the cloth. This is not an affectation, it helps to establish vertical center. The problem becomes where to strike the CB and maintain the aim line seen with the tip on the cloth. This can be determined by tip placement to obtain a particular effect and the proper line of travel given swerve, deflection, etc.

Scott Lee
10-29-2008, 07:11 AM
JoeW...One of the things you'll learn at pool school is that we have 3 checklists to go through, before the shot is done...the first of which, is done in the standing position. It's called the Study Checklist. Then you go on to the 'standing checklist' and the 'shooting checklist'. These are all routines, that begin the thought process, and take you through delivering the cuestick accurately through the CB.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

It has taken me a few weeks to figure this out Jim and my take may not be right. I am sure that it we could get UnknownPro to elaborate it would help.

Anyway, I have found that many pros from different countries begin their stroking with the cue tip on the cloth. This is not an affectation, it helps to establish vertical center. The problem becomes where to strike the CB and maintain the aim line seen with the tip on the cloth. This can be determined by tip placement to obtain a particular effect and the proper line of travel given swerve, deflection, etc.

JoeW
10-29-2008, 07:27 AM
Thanks Scott. I am looking forward to the school in Frederick. I am still a little numb and never expected to win something like the school your folks run. We (Kay and I) very much enjoyed meeting you, Randy and all the other good people at the US Open.

One of the things I learned from the CCB tournament is that there are real differences between vigilance, concentration, and focused concentration. It has helped my game here at home.

JimS
10-29-2008, 08:06 AM
This is a quote from the unknownpro posted in the thread that JoeW referenced/linked above.....

"Limiting yourself to one practice stroke and hit will limit your adjustment time and make you focus on getting in the right place the first time. But again, this is for very high level players that actually aim their tip on all shots, even when using english"

What is "aim their tip"? Does that mean, as Joe suggested, aiming with the tip at the base of the cb? Or????

JB Cases
10-29-2008, 08:36 AM
This is also called stepping into the shot. I aim standing up and align my big toe with the aiming line. Then when I get down on the shot I am automatically lined up perfectly. With this method you can stand up, have a conversation, wave your arms, whatever as long as you don't move your back foot. Then you can step into the shot bend down and one stroke it with amazing accuracy.

A road player taught me this and he uses it when hustling. When he wants to miss he deliberately moves his foot a little so it doesn't look like he is trying to miss. He showed me this way to line up and that's what I use to this day.

Even when you use any backhand english aiming system you should be aiming standing up and be able to lay the cue down on the right line and step into it.

MOJOE
10-29-2008, 11:30 AM
Pssst.. Keep it a secret but I am told that "unknownpro" is All$in on Ebay and the infamous Marty Herman from Boston! You did not hear it from me. ;)

Patrick Johnson
10-29-2008, 11:50 AM
This is a quote from the unknownpro posted in the thread that JoeW referenced/linked above.....

"Limiting yourself to one practice stroke and hit will limit your adjustment time and make you focus on getting in the right place the first time. But again, this is for very high level players that actually aim their tip on all shots, even when using english"

What is "aim their tip"? Does that mean, as Joe suggested, aiming with the tip at the base of the cb? Or????

I don't know what unknownpro means by it, but I "aim my tip" by simply knowing where it's pointed in relation to the OB contact point.

Your tip is never aimed directly at the OB contact point even when you're hitting centerball on the CB (except for dead straight shots), so it doesn't really matter whether you're using sidespin or not. Just know where your tip is pointed ("that much to the side of the OB contact point") on each shot and your subconscious will collect a "picture library" of tip/contact point alignments for you that will eventually match all the shots that come up.

It's like the picture library of CB/OB overlaps that your mind collects, except it's more accurate because you're relating two "points" (tip and OB contact point) rather than two "discs" (CB and OB overlap).

pj
chgo

JimS
10-29-2008, 06:32 PM
That makes sense Patrick. It seems sort of simple after he/she says that so few do it.

The tip doesn't play a role in my aim. I just put it where I want for the action I need and then aim the cb to the ob.

Thunderball
10-29-2008, 06:52 PM
EXCELLENT thread....thanks for the new suggestions,I'll give the technique a go tomorrow.

I found my game went up,just from consciencely "stepping in" with alignment in mind.Something else I read here fwiw.

This new drill may help me hone that even farther.Very cool stuff.

emoney
10-29-2008, 08:00 PM
good idea i will have to try that

ribdoner
10-29-2008, 08:24 PM
Aim your tip at the contact point on the OB and simply shoot through the CB.

If your an intuitive player you'll know what adjustments are req'd for YOUR stroke...if not, have fun

David Beck
10-29-2008, 10:28 PM
I don't know what unknownpro means by it, but I "aim my tip" by simply knowing where it's pointed in relation to the OB contact point.

Your tip is never aimed directly at the OB contact point even when you're hitting centerball on the CB (except for dead straight shots), so it doesn't really matter whether you're using sidespin or not. Just know where your tip is pointed ("that much to the side of the OB contact point") on each shot and your subconscious will collect a "picture library" of tip/contact point alignments for you that will eventually match all the shots that come up.

It's like the picture library of CB/OB overlaps that your mind collects, except it's more accurate because you're relating two "points" (tip and OB contact point) rather than two "discs" (CB and OB overlap).

pj
chgo

This is what I assumed Unknownpro was talking about. This is very good information. I use both the CB/OB overlap and the tip line in relation to contact point just to gather as much data as I can about each shot. It does give you a more accurate line of aim, but it will also force you to pay more attention to english and deflection.

JoeyInCali
10-29-2008, 11:18 PM
Aiming with your mind's eye, not some geometrical system?
Impossible.
Next thing I'm gonna read is you can actually imagine the cueball path and stroke through that line.
Or imagine the cueball pass through the object ball and pocket balls better?

ribdoner
10-29-2008, 11:23 PM
Aiming with your mind's eye, not some geometrical system?
Impossible.
Next thing I'm gonna read is you can actually imagine the cueball path and stroke through that line.
Or imagine the cueball pass through the object ball and pocket balls better?


IMAGINE...:smile:

Fatboy
10-29-2008, 11:35 PM
EXCELLENT thread....thanks for the new suggestions,I'll give the technique a go tomorrow.

I found my game went up,just from consciencely "stepping in" with alignment in mind.Something else I read here fwiw.

This new drill may help me hone that even farther.Very cool stuff.


SORRY THIS POST IS NOT ON TOPIC FOR THIS THREAD BUT ITS STILL GOOD>

"Stepping in" and keeping your eye on the ball is perhaps the most important fundemnetal in pool, Archer is a close friend we rarely talk pool or play(i dont mention him much here either), but one night we were banging the balls around and talking pool and he said "Keeping my eye on the spot I want on the OB and stepping into the shot is why I'm the best-because I dont lose that spot, never take your eye off it" (how strong is that!!) , He showed me a super tough shots to test my ability to do this(the only time he has ever showed me anything about playing) he made the shot 5/6 times and I made it the other 1 out of 6 times or less-it was a tough shot, LOL it was super hard but clearly showed me what he told me(in a very clear way)-I knew this before, but to hear it come from him, out of nowhere, (he never teaches me, only that nite and almost never play) it was cool and i want to share that nite with everyone here.

I hope ALOT of people see this-SORRY THIS WAS NOT PART OF THE THEAD- BUT WHEN JA TALKS WE LISTEN :thumbup:


I want to add, that was one of the very few times I ever heard him say "I'm the best" or anything like that, he wasnt bragging he was showing me something, he knew I knew it, he was just reenforcing it for me and himself(i'm sure) when he referanced himself as "The best" in all the years I know him 22 (wow were getting old) I have only heard him say something like that maybe 2 other times. He dosent joke about it, or brag-nothing. This is a rare thing for me to say this, I will add he called me today and I said "hey man I say your #1 again on the points thing" He said "yeah I saw that on AZ today, anyways whats up Big E???" We didnt talk about pool for the next 45 minutes except that he was very happy with how he played this week, he only said "yeah I felt pretty good about my game and played good this week" then not one word more about pool, 4th in the US Open??? Come'on?? how happy would the other 9,245,645 players feel taking 4th??. Amazing man, father, friend and player.


I just want to add this, as a after thought, if you can get out there and support him and Earl on their tour , this post isnt a undercover advertizment, i just added this now; bfdlad here on AZ is the promoter and its a school and is $200 for hours of instruction, i think i have the price right, ask him i dont know for sure, I know JA likes doing it and Earl does too,

JoeyInCali
10-30-2008, 12:15 AM
I hope ALOT of people see this-SORRY THIS WAS NOT PART OF THE THEAD- BUT WHEN JA TALKS WE LISTEN :thumbup:


,
Great post Eric.
I watched Johnny in the early and mid 90's when he and Efren were just trading trophies.
He shot differently then imo.
He used to approach the table with head down already. Like he was swimming to the shot.
Now he looks like he's more upright going in to the shot then bends and sets up and shoots.

Fatboy
10-30-2008, 12:52 AM
Great post Eric.
I watched Johnny in the early and mid 90's when he and Efren were just trading trophies.
He shot differently then imo.
He used to approach the table with head down already. Like he was swimming to the shot.
Now he looks like he's more upright going in to the shot then bends and sets up and shoots.

i noticed that too, he used to take his cue and set it about 2" behind the OB line it up, leave his tip on the cloth and walk behind the CB, see the spot on the OB from behind the CB then move his cue away THEN step into the shot, thats what he did that night we were banging them around, I dont see him doing that as often nowdays-I wouldnt mention that to him though. I have mentioned ther lint and he dosent pick it as often, but who am I to tell him anything about pool??? I rack for him. LOL.

JB Cases
10-30-2008, 01:56 AM
Great post Eric.
I watched Johnny in the early and mid 90's when he and Efren were just trading trophies.
He shot differently then imo.
He used to approach the table with head down already. Like he was swimming to the shot.
Now he looks like he's more upright going in to the shot then bends and sets up and shoots.

I love the visual, swimming to the shot. I wonder if players start second guessing themselves as they get older?

JimS
10-30-2008, 02:08 AM
Second guess or evolve using new methods as they grow.

The correct placement of the back foot and the subsequent stepping into the shot, then the precise placement of the bridge hand would be the foundation for the shot it seems.

I've also found JoeW's "Quiet Eye" to be a major component to making the shot. Taking just an extra second or three to let the eyes focus on the shot, while standing, makes a big difference for me.

Fatboy
10-30-2008, 02:20 AM
I love the visual, swimming to the shot. I wonder if players start second guessing themselves as they get older?


speaking for JA and ALL the other pro's I know, have known, talked to or listened to, there is one consistant thing they NEVER EVER second guess anything, which may explaine why they are pros(among other reasons) the only thing I have seen aging pro's do is complain about their eyesight, which as we all know is normal-sux, but a fact of life. So they succomb to aging but other than that they never second guess themselfs, they are all bubbling over with confidence-rightfully so.

scottjen26
10-30-2008, 08:14 AM
Eric, Thanks for the post on Johnny. I've been working on trying to get that 2% or 3% better to step up to the next level, and trying a bunch of things in the process. One thing I tried was really focusing on the spot on the OB when stepping into the shot, actually just focusing more on the OB in general. I tend to be more CB focused, hard to let go of that after years of playing a certain way. I always likened it more to golf, I watch the putter contact the ball, not the hole the ball is going into. If I'm lined up right, and hit the ball square and where intended (either CB or golf ball), the shot will go in. But lately been working more on setup and pre shot routine, and the OB focus does help, although I always feel like I'm going to foul the CB by not watching it as intently... On certain shots the OB focus even helps eliminates any last minute steering that may occur.

Anyway, thanks for sharing, sometimes we try things and are not sure if it's the right thing, to hear a top player reaffirm something like that is very helpful.

BTW, just watched the Derby ring game you were in from earlier this year I think, would have liked to see you play some but man you didn't get a lot of chances to shoot at anything to get going. Those ring games can be brutal, especially with that crowd...

Thanks again!
Scott

unknownpro
11-01-2008, 03:40 AM
That makes sense Patrick. It seems sort of simple after he/she says that so few do it.

The tip doesn't play a role in my aim. I just put it where I want for the action I need and then aim the cb to the ob.

I'm glad the one-stroke practice is helping. I always practice that way now. I use one stroke instead of none because I try not to pause in my stroke. If you have a pause, then I'd try using no stroke practice some of the time.

When I'm aiming I am trying to get as far removed from pocketing the object ball as possible so that thought never enters my mind during the stroke. The object ball contact point is a step removed but is not a good aiming reference, simply because you can almost never aim at it with the cueball or the cuestick. The object ball contact point is the biggest shark in pool.

The center of the ghostball is the real aiming reference first removed from pocketing the object ball. Anybody who can focus on delivering the cueball through the ghostball position without looking at the object ball contact point should play better once they get used to it. Without focusing on the object ball contact point you don't tend to try and steer the object ball, instead keeping your mind on the cueball's speed and direction.

But your weapon is your pool stick. And if you use wide side english, especially with no top or bottom (arguably the most powerful weapon on the pool table) you will find you need to aim your tip for a significant squerve getting you well off the line from the cueball to the center of the ghostball. There will be a lot of squirt and very littler curve.

With such a wide variance depending on english I want to know my cue line before I get down -otherwise you must twist and adjust. To know your cue line you must guess or know how much squirve you will get. Since it's possible to get just about any amount you want you must decide your best bet option and commit fully to the speed and aim required.

The key is knowing how to do this. I feel like the most consistently obtainable squirt is often larger than most people are comfortable using so they wind up aiming too close to the contact point and letting curve bail them out. Then when they put a good stroke on the ball they blame squirt for their miss instead of the lack of curve.

With the cueline being one more step removed from pocketing the object ball, concentrating only on the cue line and speed you tend not to steer the object ball or the cueball. This greatly reduces the fear factor because you no longer are even trying to control the cueball, only the stick which is much easier and almost never scratches.

unknownpro
11-01-2008, 03:46 AM
I've been trying to figure out exactly what that means.. aiming with the cue tip. How do I aim w/the cue tip when shooting w/low left.. for instance?


Aim along the top right edge of your tip at the bottom left edge of the ghostball is generally how I do it.

JimS
11-01-2008, 06:28 AM
Aim along the top right edge of your tip at the bottom left edge of the ghostball is generally how I do it.

Hmmm. I get the picture.

I've never used the tip to aim with... only the center of the cb to the center of the gb. When using english I'd move the gb to reflect the squirt movement of the cb. I.e. if the cb is going to squirt right, and I'm shooting firm enough to have little or no swerve, I'd move the gb a commenserate amount to the left of the usual gb position for that shot. Never occurred to me to use any part of the tip as an aiming tool.

Another something new to try :D :thumbup:

Thanks, Jim.... likes new stuff to try as that must mean that I"m getting closer to the "secret".

PKM
11-01-2008, 06:45 AM
Something I've wondered about - if you should aim before you are down on the shot, what is the advantage to keeping your head low? I've often heard that it makes it easier to aim for longer shots.

Incidentally I tend to keep my head fairly low, but maybe it is just more natural in terms of the mechanics of most peoples' stroke? (For example, you can then bring your hand closer to your chest)

grindz
11-01-2008, 10:33 AM
I love the visual, swimming to the shot. I wonder if players start second guessing themselves as they get older?

I would think that everyone second guesses themselves more, but the pros
probably replace that thought with re-evaluate. Two similar thoughts a world apart.

I also feel that perhaps a part of Johnny's renewed success has to do with his teaching with Earl and having to re-explore his own game from the ground up in order to be able to teach it effectively. Teaching can be a great way to bring your own game up. JMNSHO

Great thread and helpful advice from the posters. I may just have to finally get rid of my own known bad habit of aiming while down. I know/knew, have been noticing how bad it had become....but this thread let me know it is no longer acceptable and it's time for a change.

It's always something........................:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

td

dgem
11-01-2008, 01:29 PM
Thank you unknownpro. I tried this method and it is the nuts. It helped me to go dead stroke at a faster rate. I even apply back hand english with this method and it works better i think.:)

enlightphoto
11-01-2008, 01:41 PM
Yeozza!! Man, Am I glad to have found this thread, and what timing as well. I'd read this on Wed. and was thinking, I should give this a try. That same afternoon, I snapped my back - old back injury - while riding my bike. So that night, thoroughly filled with pain meds and muscle relaxants, I head out to my table. I took a lot of extra time standing over the shot and checking the line with my foot and cue hand at my hip. The back pain was a good reason to go down on the shot very slow and deliberate. I wouldn't take any warm up strokes, but rather just take the shot I had envisioned. I only made minor adjustments in where I wanted the cue tip to contact the cb, a minor pivot if needed to ensure my 'feel' was good, and shot. The end results have been really impressive. Despite being in pain, my shotmaking has gone up a fairly decent percentage.

File under FWIW...

enlightphoto
11-01-2008, 02:06 PM
SORRY THIS POST IS NOT ON TOPIC FOR THIS THREAD BUT ITS STILL GOOD>

He showed me a super tough shots to test my ability to do this(the only time he has ever showed me anything about playing) he made the shot 5/6 times and I made it the other 1 out of 6 times or less-it was a tough shot, LOL it was super hard

That was a great post, but I'm dyin' to know, what was the super tough shot? Any chance you could draw it out for us?

terhje
11-20-2008, 06:16 PM
Unknownpro = Bert Kinister?

he talks about the onestroke in mightyX and the center
tip aim inn another(cant remember).

pdcue
11-21-2008, 03:50 AM
Second guess or evolve using new methods as they grow.

The correct placement of the back foot and the subsequent stepping into the shot, then the precise placement of the bridge hand would be the foundation for the shot it seems.

I've also found JoeW's "Quiet Eye" to be a major component to making the shot. Taking just an extra second or three to let the eyes focus on the shot, while standing, makes a big difference for me.

JimS

Starting from the orig post and expanding somewhat - let me say
'welcome to phase one'

I couldn't agree more with the idea of aiming while you are up.

IMHO - you can't do more to improve your overall game than to add the concept of ' play position while you are up'

If you visualize the CB path and final destination before you zero in on
pocketing the OB - you have already decided which of the many possible
combinations of spin/speed/stroke you need to use. That will determine where you need to contact the OB.

The one stroke limit can be helpful for practice, esp for those who
are tempted to think and think while down in the stance.
But I feel the broader concept of determining everything yoiu are going to do before you ever bend over will improve your game more than any other single concept.

Once you bend down, there should be no thought about ANYTHING other
than where you hit the OB - if you pocket the ball - the CB will go wher it is supposed to.

I would recomend drills for pocketing - drills for position play - drills for
any aspect you can think of. That way you can sharpen the skills you
need to be able to know all you need to before getting down.

For playing the game, make one total decision, then execute.

It's improoved my game more than I could have ever immangined.

Dale

JimS
11-21-2008, 04:32 AM
It seems like the more deliberate I try to be, in my pre-shot process, the worse my shooting gets. But.. when I try to shoot loose, like the one stroke practice, even if I shoot well, I can't imagine that I'd trust that shooting process when in competition.

So... I feel like I can't trust the 1 stroke in competition but I start missing when I slow down and "grind".

What's the answer? ANOTHER MILLION SHOTS! .... is the answer I get. :groucho:

JimS
11-21-2008, 04:52 AM
Here's another strange thing from inside my head.

When I take my aiming line by finding a target in the pocket and drawing a line back through the ob I find a different (and inaccurate!) aim line than if I find the target and then draw the line from the opposite rail through the ob and to the target point in the pocket. (Aim from the back.)

Said slightly differently; When I draw the shot line from behind the ob to the target I get the right line and when I draw the shot line from the target back throught the ob I get the wrong line.

It's something to do with my individual visual perception and it sure has confused the hell out of me until I finally discovered this particular idiosynchrasy during practice this past month.

My method of aiming had been to find the target within the pocket and draw the line back through the ob and find the ghost ball that way. From the angle behind the cb my perception using this method was off line and inaccurate causing me to miss shots that I was sure I "knew" and it drove me crazy trying to figure out what was wrong.

This one stroke practice has taught me that my perception of the line or angle of the shot, and consequently the position of the ghost ball (gb), has been incorrect and that's been a big part of why my accuracy was so inconsistent. In order to make the shots using the one stroke I had to start walking over behind the ob and drawing a line to the opposite rail... then going back to stand behind the cb and "see" that line and the gthen visualize gb.

Seeing the shot from the opposite rail instead of from the target in the pocket, has greatly improved my accuracy. Now I miss because I tend to hurry or because I'm a clumsy f*&k. :eek:

Hope this makes sense. :groucho:

grindz
11-21-2008, 09:56 AM
It seems like the more deliberate I try to be, in my pre-shot process, the worse my shooting gets. But.. when I try to shoot loose, like the one stroke practice, even if I shoot well, I can't imagine that I'd trust that shooting process when in competition.

So... I feel like I can't trust the 1 stroke in competition but I start missing when I slow down and "grind".

What's the answer? ANOTHER MILLION SHOTS! .... is the answer I get. :groucho:

...."the force is with you".......:wink:

Actually....your "knowing" brain is the most powerful, best judge, and executioner......it's your "thinking" brain that's the chump (so to speak..not you personally) and has very little to do with your success!!!
When you get to where you actually believe this the monkey will be off your back and a whole new realm of possibility opens. In this realm all you need to do is see the shot in your mind, see the destination, and execute...NO THINKING, no words....just vision and knowledge. JMNSHO :smile:

td

grindz
11-21-2008, 10:06 AM
Here's another strange thing from inside my head.

When I take my aiming line by finding a target in the pocket and drawing a line back through the ob I find a different (and inaccurate!) aim line than if I find the target and then draw the line from the opposite rail through the ob and to the target point in the pocket. (Aim from the back.)

Said slightly differently; When I draw the shot line from behind the ob to the target I get the right line and when I draw the shot line from the target back throught the ob I get the wrong line.

It's something to do with my individual visual perception and it sure has confused the hell out of me until I finally discovered this particular idiosynchrasy during practice this past month.

My method of aiming had been to find the target within the pocket and draw the line back through the ob and find the ghost ball that way. From the angle behind the cb my perception using this method was off line and inaccurate causing me to miss shots that I was sure I "knew" and it drove me crazy trying to figure out what was wrong.

This one stroke practice has taught me that my perception of the line or angle of the shot, and consequently the position of the ghost ball (gb), has been incorrect and that's been a big part of why my accuracy was so inconsistent. In order to make the shots using the one stroke I had to start walking over behind the ob and drawing a line to the opposite rail... then going back to stand behind the cb and "see" that line and the gthen visualize gb.

Seeing the shot from the opposite rail instead of from the target in the pocket, has greatly improved my accuracy. Now I miss because I tend to hurry or because I'm a clumsy f*&k. :eek:

Hope this makes sense. :groucho:

that came to mind when I read your post. It was a couple of months ago and I'm not sure if they archive past articals. In it Mike O. talks about the 3 aim lines for each shot. One for each side of the OB and one for the center of it. When "aiming" without looking at the 'back view' (from behind the OB going into the pocket) the mind can get a little lazy and forget to allow for the diameter of the ball and just aim the center of OB into the pocket.

Personally.....(and I'm NOT a pro), I like the walk behind the OB and view it into the pocket because it gives my mind a clear picture of what I want to do......if I get out of the way, IT just does it. Don't know if that makes sense or not....but it works (except for my bad eyes and shakes :smile:).

td

whitewolf
11-21-2008, 10:31 AM
[QUOTE=JimS]Best thing I"ve learned yet in 9 years of "grinding".

QUOTE]

I have tried the no-stroke method with great success. But, this is just another form of "grinding".

You must be aware however of the DOWNSIDE, which IMHO is: you will loose rhythm which is necessary to roll the cueball to exact locations you get with feel. You NEED TO GET LOOSE on the shot, and this no-stroke method DOES NOT help you do this. Trust me.

JimS
11-21-2008, 04:25 PM
that came to mind when I read your post. It was a couple of months ago and I'm not sure if they archive past articals. In it Mike O. talks about the 3 aim lines for each shot. One for each side of the OB and one for the center of it. When "aiming" without looking at the 'back view' (from behind the OB going into the pocket) the mind can get a little lazy and forget to allow for the diameter of the ball and just aim the center of OB into the pocket.

Personally.....(and I'm NOT a pro), I like the walk behind the OB and view it into the pocket because it gives my mind a clear picture of what I want to do......if I get out of the way, IT just does it. Don't know if that makes sense or not....but it works (except for my bad eyes and shakes :smile:).

td

When I get lazy, start non-chalantin, I forget to pick a precise spot within the pocket and just sort of aim at the pocket in general. When I do that I generally miss. :(

I read somewhere that one BIG difference between most of us and the pros is that they take no shot for granted. That's why I like the Mark Wilson quote in my signature. NO non-chalantin.... complete every stroke of the cue to perfection.

For me this means taking time to walk behind the ob and get the line. Then go back and go through the preshot routine to find that same line from behind the cb. The strange part of all this is that there is a part of me that strongly resists taking the time to walk around and look at the shot. "He" thinks that he knows this shot and can shoot it in his sleep and doesn't need to go throught that rookie stuff of walking around a looking at the shot. "He", by gawd, knows what he's by gawd doin and doesn't need that crap.

Then when we miss I'm giving myself hell for once again listening to the guy within me with the big head... the ego that can't be taught.

It's become a contest to see who's in charge and who will be shooting the shot. Will it be Mr. Anal who grinds it out? Or Mr. BigShot who doesn't need anything and knows bygawd what he's doing? Or will it be The Student ... the one who takes the time to do it the way he knows he's supposed to but which don't look cool?

I'm learning how to give control to The Student. Most of that has to do with breathing.

grindz
11-21-2008, 08:17 PM
.................................................. ..."He" thinks that he knows this shot and can shoot it in his sleep and doesn't need to go throught that rookie stuff of walking around a looking at the shot. "He", by gawd, knows what he's by gawd doin and doesn't need that crap.

Then when we miss I'm giving myself hell for once again listening to the guy within me with the big head... the ego that can't be taught.

It's become a contest to see who's in charge and who will be shooting the shot. Will it be Mr. Anal who grinds it out? Or Mr. BigShot who doesn't need anything and knows bygawd what he's doing? Or will it be The Student ... the one who takes the time to do it the way he knows he's supposed to but which don't look cool?

I'm learning how to give control to The Student. Most of that has to do with breathing.

The "student" looks REALLY cool when he runs out!!! :) :)

td

mooseman
11-21-2008, 09:59 PM
Well after reading this post I adopted the one stroke philosophy while warming up approximately 3 weeks ago. Yes I've missed shots but I was amazed at how many shots with position I made. I think the key is making the decision and just doing it. This seems to remove self doubt as well. For me it seems to be working and as a result my confidence has seemed to improve as well.

In fact during 8-ball bar box league this week I made a decision and played the whole match one stroking except for maybe 3 shots. These shots I had maybe a half pocket to shot at. 5 wins with 4 runouts.

Now will I continue to do this. I doubt it but if the opportunity presents I'm not going to dismiss this.