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View Full Version : Cut shot comfort level

Andrew Manning
10-29-2008, 09:11 AM
Consider the 5 diagrammed cut shots. I tried to make the distances and angle about the same in all 5 shots (if I'm off, just pretend they're the same). Which one would be the one you'd pick to be the shot you're shooting for \$1000? That is to say, which one are you most comfortable with? Are they all the same to you (pretending I made the distances and cut angles exactly the same)? If you do have a preference, how would you rank the 5 shots in order from favorite to least favorite? I'm just curious, because they're definitely not all the same to me, and I'm interested to know if my preference matches others.

The diagram:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4IDud4PBPa@3IAMJ3PFxI@3ICBE3PLVM@3IDQN3PQmA@3IDQ j3PRkf@

-Andrew

Neil
10-29-2008, 09:18 AM
...............

shinigami
10-29-2008, 09:23 AM
4 is definitely the easiest of the 5. Like Neil said, it has the biggest margin of error. After 4, 3 would be my next favorite because there is almost a 0% chance of scratching no matter how you hit it. 1 and 2 is the same for me. 5 is the hardest for me as well.

rodrivar
10-29-2008, 09:24 AM
I would take shot 4 for the grand, 4 and 5 are the easiest. But I feel comfortable shooting any of those shots...

poolpop63
10-29-2008, 09:27 AM
I'm shooting 4,5,3,2,and 1 in the order of comfort. If all the angles are the same, then its a matter of perception. So I perceive 4 is most comfrotable to me as a right hander. Shot 1and 2 may be more comfrotable to lefty's but I don't like to shoot those because of the stretch. This selection may not work for others but I like it.

The_Hill
10-29-2008, 09:33 AM
I would throw out any of them that are outside, meaning, if you shoot left handed anything that cuts to the right, or the otherway around if you shoot right handed.

I'm don't even want say this because I thought I knew my game better then this, but a couple of years ago I had an OB on the spot, and the cue ball directly below it on the closest end rail, I cut it to the side pocket, that was to my back and missed. So I went home and shot it a hundred times and missed a lot of them, then shot to the side facing my chest and made almost every one of them. It seems most people naturally favor shots to the inside, though I didn't pick up on this till very late! LOL

Andrew Manning
10-29-2008, 09:33 AM
I'm shooting 4,5,3,2,and 1 in the order of comfort. If all the angles are the same, then its a matter of perception. So I perceive 4 is most comfrotable to me as a right hander. Shot 1and 2 may be more comfrotable to lefty's but I don't like to shoot those because of the stretch. This selection may not work for others but I like it.

Left-handed players should picture the mirror-image shots when considering their answer. I didn't mean for this thread to be right-hand-biased.

-Andrew

unicorncomputer
10-29-2008, 09:40 AM
I would have to rank them in the same order you placed them in there. The last one being the only one I really don't like, the rest are about the same.

Beware_of_Dawg
10-29-2008, 09:49 AM
For 1k, I think 3 would be my choice with 4 a close second. 1 & 2 I think IM using a slightly lighter stroke on but the four I mentioned I would shoot all with the same medium/high right english.

# 5 I'm more comfortable (for a grand) using medium/high left english. This is all personal comfort with a G on the line and 1 shot at it. I dont think any of the shots would be a discomfort using variety of/or no english.

blueridge
10-29-2008, 10:08 AM
Shots 1 and 2 are the most difficult. They are hard to reach, especially for a right handed player. The object ball is about 2 diamonds away from the long rail and the end rail. This along with the cue angle makes the shots more missable than the other shots. Both have definite scratch possibliities, since you probablly be using follow and won't be able to kill the cue ball.

Shot 3 is semi difficult, but much easier to reach.

Shots 4 and 5 are fairly routine shots. Both are very easy to reach. The object ball is closer to the end rail rather than around the foot spot. I'll gladly take either one of those.

10-29-2008, 10:53 AM
They all look like half ball hits, so it doesn't matter.

10-29-2008, 11:06 AM
Before looking at anyone else's answer I choose shot #4 because it's the easiest to shoot with a normal stroke, not stretched out (#1) or with an awkward stance (#2, #3) and it's not close to the rail (#5).

KoolKat9Lives
10-29-2008, 11:10 AM
4 is a gimmie. 5 is position I'll take any day and is cake. 3 is almost routine, but not to be taken for granted. 2 requires me to straddle the corner pocket like a pooch on a fire hydrant, but appears that will allow a comfortable and firm foundation. Shot 1 is on the bubble for my 5'10" on a 9'er - bridge or stretch? - couldn't say. It is the one I'd miss more out of 100 tries than the rest combined.

Bob Jewett
10-29-2008, 11:18 AM
Consider the 5 diagrammed cut shots. ...
The effective width of the pocket varies some depending on the approach angle. From that perspective you could measure or calculate (as Dr. Dave has done) what approach angle offers the widest opening and go with that. Just from gut feel, I also like 4, but it depends on the table and speed. Some tables reject 4 if you shoot hard and touch the near corner going in, but your situation allows a medium speed where that's not as much of a concern.

Edit: the above ignores body position.

Andrew Manning
10-29-2008, 11:51 AM
Shots 1 and 2 are the most difficult. They are hard to reach, especially for a right handed player. The object ball is about 2 diamonds away from the long rail and the end rail. This along with the cue angle makes the shots more missable than the other shots. Both have definite scratch possibliities, since you probablly be using follow and won't be able to kill the cue ball.

Shot 3 is semi difficult, but much easier to reach.

Shots 4 and 5 are fairly routine shots. Both are very easy to reach. The object ball is closer to the end rail rather than around the foot spot. I'll gladly take either one of those.

Hmm, I wasn't thinking about the stretch factor. I'm 6'2" with long arms, and none of these shots are a problem for me to reach.

I guess I'll post my answer:
1 and 2 are much harder for me to line up than 4 and 5. My order from favorite to last favorite is 4, 5, 3, 2, 1, although 1 and 2 are about the same for me. I think the reason, for me, is the end rail. Visually, it acts as a guide for me to help see the correct line of aim for the shot. Once down on the shot, shots 1, 2, and to a lesser extent 3 are difficult for me to see the angle; whereas somewhat on shot 3 and very much on shot 4 and 5, I can tell what point on the OB faces directly away from the pocket very easily because the rail is a line of reference visually, and it points to the pocket.

Anyway, I've been trying to think about which easy shots I miss more than others, and shots 1 and 2 are shots I fairly frequently have on the game ball, that I just don't feel very comfortable with. Obviously I need to dedicate some focused practice to correcting that problem.

-Andrew

dr_dave
10-29-2008, 01:24 PM
The effective width of the pocket varies some depending on the approach angle. From that perspective you could measure or calculate (as Dr. Dave has done) what approach angle offers the widest opening and go with that.If people want to see the results of the analysis with lots of illustrations and examples, check out these articles:

Just How Big are the Pockets, Anyway - Part III (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2005/jan05.pdf) (BD, January, 2005)
Just How Big are the Pockets, Anyway - Part II (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2004/dec04.pdf) (BD, December, 2004)
Just How Big are the Pockets, Anyway - Part I (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2004/nov04.pdf) (BD, November, 2004)

Enjoy,
Dave

Surly
10-29-2008, 02:22 PM
I would have to say 5 would be my choice. One of my drills is shooting balls frozen on the rail and I'm becoming very comfortable with that shot.

The others are equally do-able really, but if I had to order them, I would choose descending order.

dr_dave
10-29-2008, 02:26 PM
If people want to see the results of the analysis with lots of illustrations and examples, check out these articles:

Just How Big are the Pockets, Anyway - Part III (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2005/jan05.pdf) (BD, January, 2005)
Just How Big are the Pockets, Anyway - Part II (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2004/dec04.pdf) (BD, December, 2004)
Just How Big are the Pockets, Anyway - Part I (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2004/nov04.pdf) (BD, November, 2004)

Enjoy,
Dave
PS: I would prefer shot 4, where the effective size of the pocket is largest.

MOJOE
10-29-2008, 02:34 PM
I would first like shot 4, then 5. I just like 5, it is one that I am quite comfortable no matter what table I am on.. Excluding a snooker table

Patrick Johnson
10-29-2008, 04:01 PM
... somewhat on shot 3 and very much on shot 4 and 5, I can tell what point on the OB faces directly away from the pocket very easily because the rail is a line of reference visually, and it points to the pocket.

IMO, this is what really drives the almost universal choice of #4, even though almost nobody realizes it consciously. It's the closest to the rail without being on the rail, so it gets the most advantage from the rail as a visual aid without the distraction of being frozen to the rail.

I think this is also why "back cuts" are almost universally considered some of the hardest shots - because there's no rail behind the OB to give any assistance in estimating the cut angle and contact point.

pj
chgo

gulfportdoc
10-29-2008, 06:06 PM
They all look like half ball hits, so it doesn't matter.

That's what I was thinking. So if they're all half-ball hits, then I'd go with #1, since there's more pocket opening width to work with; especially on a tight table.

Doc

gnatnoop
10-29-2008, 06:12 PM
imo, 3 or 4 would be the best, easy to reach and no rail issues.

Patrick Johnson
10-29-2008, 07:13 PM
If people want to see the results of the analysis with lots of illustrations and examples, check out these articles:

Just How Big are the Pockets, Anyway - Part III (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2005/jan05.pdf) (BD, January, 2005)
Just How Big are the Pockets, Anyway - Part II (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2004/dec04.pdf) (BD, December, 2004)
Just How Big are the Pockets, Anyway - Part I (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2004/nov04.pdf) (BD, November, 2004)

Enjoy,
Dave

Great stuff, Doc. Thanks again (for the millionth time). I think you're quickly earning yourself a place on the AZB Wall of Fame - if there ever is one.

pj
chgo

Cory in DC
10-29-2008, 07:13 PM
PS: I would prefer shot 4, where the effective size of the pocket is largest.

4 was my answer, both on gut feel and thinking about the effective pocket size. The whole left facing, the pocket, and maybe even the last bit of the rail all go in on #4. I think I've heard someone somewhere call aiming the OB in #4 at the facing shooting to the "pro side".

Andrew -- are you sure you aim better because of the rail? Maybe you just think you do because the effective pocket is larger so you miss less often?

Cory