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View Full Version : Custom cue with no name?


CaptainJR
04-15-2005, 05:40 AM
If you were shown a cue that you really liked by a cue sales person. Price tag...$800.00. You were told it was a .....(custom cue makers name)....., but the name was not on the butt of the stick like you've seen at that custom cue makers web site. What would you think?

As I looked at the stick, I'm pretty sure that it is a custom cue. The only way I know to try to tell this is to look at the points. What I've been told is the points of a production cue are a little rounded on the tip of the points, like my Lucasi. The points on a custom cue are sharp. If this is the case, this is a custom cue.

I didn't say anything at the moment but I suspect that if I mention it I would probably get an answer like....'there is a slight flaw in the cue so the name wasn't put on'... or something like that. I know this person and there is just no reason for me to disbelieve them, but I still am a little hesitant.

What do you all think about this. The one big draw back that I can think of is if I ever wanted to sell it I would have nothing to show who it was made by, therefore loosing any value that just the name might bring. On the other hand, I've seen similar custom cues with this amount of detail, inlays etc. That sell for much more, so maybe I wouldn't really be loosing anything at this price. I think it could stand at this price regardless of who made it. So maybe it is worth it even without a name cause $800.00 for a good custom cue is not a high price.

CaptainJR
04-15-2005, 05:47 AM
One other thing is the little pride thing. If someone would come up to me and say, 'That's a nice looking cue, who made it?' What could I say? If you have a cue that is made by a good name custom cue maker, you would like to be able to say.. 'This is a .........'

Black-Balled
04-15-2005, 05:47 AM
you rolls your dice and takes your chances. You might never konw for sure. Anothe quality check is to look at any place where there is a cut and glue. you want to see no gaps that are filled with glue too much. But if you like the way it plays then maybe it is priceless.

lukeinva
04-15-2005, 05:59 AM
Take some pics and email them to the cue maker he/she will be able to tell you if they made it or not. I had the same problem recently guy telling me that so and so made a titlist conversion but discussing it with the cue maker and seeing the pics they have no recolection of making it. In that case I just let it pass me by. I would rather miss out on a deal then to waste $800!!

MrLucky
04-15-2005, 06:00 AM
If you were shown a cue that you really liked by a cue sales person. Price tag...$800.00. You were told it was a .....(custom cue makers name)....., but the name was not on the butt of the stick like you've seen at that custom cue makers web site. What would you think?

As I looked at the stick, I'm pretty sure that it is a custom cue. The only way I know to try to tell this is to look at the points. What I've been told is the points of a production cue are a little rounded on the tip of the points, like my Lucasi. The points on a custom cue are sharp. If this is the case, this is a custom cue.

I didn't say anything at the moment but I suspect that if I mention it I would probably get an answer like....'there is a slight flaw in the cue so the name wasn't put on'... or something like that. I know this person and there is just no reason for me to disbelieve them, but I still am a little hesitant.

What do you all think about this. The one big draw back that I can think of is if I ever wanted to sell it I would have nothing to show who it was made by, therefore loosing any value that just the name might bring. On the other hand, I've seen similar custom cues with this amount of detail, inlays etc. That sell for much more, so maybe I wouldn't really be loosing anything at this price. I think it could stand at this price regardless of who made it. So maybe it is worth it even without a name cause $800.00 for a good custom cue is not a high price.


Does it matter? what is important is that you like the cue ! For in all reality IMHO!.... its not really "custom" unless you ordered it to your specs!... so its really just another nice cue that is for sale, regardless of who made it! .... as far as rounded points being indigious to production ! ..... not true!!!! :cool:

T411
04-15-2005, 06:08 AM
If you had an early Tad Kohara, it has no name on it, and I woul jump all over it for that price. I think Lucky is right, if you are buying it to play with and you like, it who cares. If you were buying it for a collection I would want to be sure who the maker is.

i210mfu
04-15-2005, 06:49 AM
HI Captain,

Points are no real divider to answer wether or not a cue is custom or production. If the cuemaker uses a CNC to cut the points they always will be a little round due to the fact of the machinery used. Just using a CNC does not disqualify the cues being a custom cue right?

The easiest way to be sure is take a picture and contact the cuemaker named. He sure knows wether or not it is one of his. If so he sure is willing to give you some sort of certificate for it.

Just my 2 cents

Regards,
Markus

Kevin Lindstrom
04-15-2005, 06:56 AM
Hey Cap

I recently bought a Steve Kornele cue with his signature and date on the cue.
It was real beat up. I took it to Proficient Billards for a refinish and rewrap. They did a wonderful job by the way. In the refinishing process I knew I was going to lose the signature. I bought the cue because I liked the way it looked and played. I now have a beautiful cue that plays real nice but with no identifying signature, logo or markings. It doesn't matter to me because I plan to use the cue rather than sell it. If you like the cue and plan to play with it I say go for it. If you are buying to try to resell for profit then you might want to think twice about it.

Bruce S. de Lis
04-15-2005, 07:34 AM
Back in 1972 Bert Schrager did ot Sign his Cues, I bought one back then, sold it recently to a Collector. For years folks in the know would say, "That is a Bert Schrager" when that saw the Cue.......... :o

drivermaker
04-15-2005, 07:54 AM
For in all reality IMHO!.... its not really "custom" unless you ordered it to your specs!... so its really just another nice cue that is for sale, regardless of who made it! .... as far as rounded points being indigious to production ! ..... not true!!!! :cool:


It doesn't seem to matter how many times you (plural) keep trying to pound that into heads about custom...it never sinks in, does it?

MANY cuemakers don't sign their cues, it's not uncommon, and I mean BIG NAME cuemakers as well. And as far as rounded points, a good number of so called "custom" cuemakers aren't meticulous about their points or in some cases skilled enough, so their points are rounded. On the flip side, take a look at a production Helmstetter and you could draw blood because they're so sharp. It means nothing Capt.

JoeyInCali
04-15-2005, 08:00 AM
There are several assemblers out there who buy blanks and components from one factory and assemble them. Really, they shouldn't sign their names on the finished product.

Fred Agnir
04-15-2005, 08:03 AM
The only way I know to try to tell this is to look at the points. What I've been told is the points of a production cue are a little rounded on the tip of the points, like my Lucasi.
This isn't true, so I guess I don't understand the post. Also, not all custom cues are signed.

Fred

k-carson
04-15-2005, 08:13 AM
There are several assemblers out there who buy blanks and components from one factory and assemble them. Really, they shouldn't sign their names on the finished product.

Yeah! like them hacks George Balabushka and Gus Szamboti
for buying blanks from Burton spain lol :)


Many people miss out the bennefit that most every custom cue maker will
throw away wood that viking , joss mcdermott and other companies will
use every day of the week

MrLucky
04-15-2005, 08:19 AM
Yeah! like them hacks George Balabushka and Gus Szamboti
for buying blanks from Burton spain lol :)


Many people miss out the bennefit that most every custom cue maker will
throw away wood that viking , joss mcdermott and other companies will
use every day of the week

I personally don't know what Joss and Viking and others do for their wood but having visited McDermotts shop they are extremely selective in both their wood suppliers and in their processes of wood curing and treatment! ;) In fact amazingly so for a production shop! This is why they stand behind their product for life against defects and warpage ! something even many high buck "custom" shops will not do! Please be selective and accurate when you make blanket statements like this! :(

k-carson
04-15-2005, 08:29 AM
I personally don't know what Joss and Viking and others do for their wood but having visited McDermotts shop they are extremely selective in both their wood suppliers and in their processes of wood curing and treatment! ;) In fact amazingly so for a production shop! This is why they stand behind their product for life against defects and warpage ! something even many high buck "custom" shops will not do! Please be selective and accurate when you make blanket statements like this! :(

Well i agree with you But only to a point i think all 3 of those companies are
carefull about the processing of there wood

However when it comes to the beauty of the wood figure that is used in a custom cue versus any production cue they will never compare
to compete at that level would be nearly imposible to buy wood of that beauty in the quantities that the need to produce 80,000 cues a year

CaptainJR
04-15-2005, 08:33 AM
For example, if you go to the Jacoby site .. http://www.jacobycue.com .. Every cue they have shown there has the name on the end of the butt.

drivermaker
04-15-2005, 08:37 AM
For example, if you go to the Jacoby site .. http://www.jacobycue.com .. Every cue they have shown there has the name on the end of the butt.


Then buy one....

HighEndCues
04-15-2005, 08:48 AM
Yeah! like them hacks George Balabushka and Gus Szamboti
for buying blanks from Burton spain lol :)


Many people miss out the bennefit that most every custom cue maker will
throw away wood that viking , joss mcdermott and other companies will
use every day of the week
Hey K-carson,
Half of your statement was true.... Balabushka bought blanks from Burton Spain. Gus Szamboti didn't buy blanks from Burton. Gus made blanks for Balabushka also..
Let's keep the reputation of a great cuemaker intact....
Best,
Ken

Fred Agnir
04-15-2005, 08:53 AM
For example, if you go to the Jacoby site .. http://www.jacobycue.com .. Every cue they have shown there has the name on the end of the butt.

Can we stop beating around the bush? What is the cue? If it is truly a cue from that maker (which you should be able to find out easily), then I certainly wouldn't have any problem telling people that it's an unsigned so-and-so. I think that was your original question.

And Jacoby cues have non-sharp points, FWIW.

Fred

Bruce S. de Lis
04-15-2005, 09:02 AM
There are several assemblers out there who buy blanks and components from one factory and assemble them. Really, they shouldn't sign their names on the finished product.


Joey I find your above statement very interesting, and know there is one Vendors of Cue Parts/Components that SELLS Prefabricate Forearms, and Butt Sections with Point, and Veneered Points that are apparently fabricated by Samsara Cue Company for resale.

Think these “assemblers” are still craftsman but maybe without the skill, equipment, or ? To work from totally RAW MATERIALS, as other Cuemaker do.

if their Cues Hit & Play Well they have build a quality product. I personally think if is O.K. if they Sign Their FINISHED PRODUCT. As they did most of the work.

Now if those builders are saying that they fabricate from scratch, and do not admit to being assemblers. Than they are telling a Big Fib.

But how many Cuemakers with Big Names have a staff of Helpers, Apprentices, etc. People working under their direct supervision do things like Sanding, Rough Turning, Inlay Works, and those Big Name Makers are signing their work.

Some names that come to mind are that are build by a Team of Fabricators are Coker, SouthWest, Mucci, and I am sure I could list about 5 or 6 more with ease.

Customers are still paying a lot of money for their Cues that are NOT MADE FROM START to FINISH by only One or Two People. But are made by a Production TEAM.

BTW Joey who is those “several assemblers out there who buy blanks and components from one factory and assemble them”. As it would be interest to find out that info, and your source.... ;)

Barbara
04-15-2005, 09:45 AM
Hey K-carson,
Half of your statement was true.... Balabushka bought blanks from Burton Spain. Gus Szamboti didn't buy blanks from Burton. Gus made blanks for Balabushka also..
Let's keep the reputation of a great cuemaker intact....
Best,
Ken

Thank you for clearing that up, Ken!

Barbara

CaptainJR
04-15-2005, 10:08 AM
And Jacoby cues have non-sharp points, FWIW.
Fred

Sorry for beating around the bush. But it did get my answer. Now do I just let is drop or do I go there and say 'what are you trying to pull here?'

landshark77
04-15-2005, 10:09 AM
For example, if you go to the Jacoby site .. http://www.jacobycue.com .. Every cue they have shown there has the name on the end of the butt.

Go look at almost any cue builder and examine the way they mark their cues historically. (If I recall correctly, even the Blue Book makes note of this.) Often times the way one person does this changes over time. I have known cue builders who have gone from signing under the wrap to signing on the fronts to engraving on the butts. I also know cue builders who sign their cues sporadically...they may mark one cue one way and another, a day later, totally different. I agree with Luke's advice. When in doubt go strait to the source.

JoeyInCali
04-15-2005, 10:29 AM
Joey I find your above statement very interesting, and know there is one Vendors of Cue Parts/Components that SELLS Prefabricate Forearms, and Butt Sections with Point, and Veneered Points that are apparently fabricated by Samsara Cue Company for resale.
Prather sells to several assemblers. I know of at least three local assemblers. Hell, they even have the same rings.
Think these “assemblers” are still craftsman but maybe without the skill, equipment, or ? To work from totally RAW MATERIALS, as other Cuemaker do.
They're not craftsmen. They are assemblers. How can one buy a blank ( it can even have a tapped hole if one wants it ), a handle with a joint stud in it and inlayed sleeve be a craftsman? What? For gluing the parts together then signing his name? He's a craftsman when he makes his own blank and assembles them dead on nuts.if their Cues Hit & Play Well they have build a quality product. I personally think if is O.K. if they Sign Their FINISHED PRODUCT. As they did most of the work.
If he's concerned about the hit of his cues, he should pick his own wood.
IF he's making a sneaky pete, yeah a cutdown house cue is fine b/c it's a sneaky pete. But, a "custom cue" is a different animal imo.
But how many Cuemakers with Big Names have a staff of Helpers, Apprentices, etc. People working under their direct supervision do things like Sanding, Rough Turning, Inlay Works, and those Big Name Makers are signing their work.
If he trained the people who work for him and he provided/designed the tooling and equipment and he has the ultimate say in the quality control, he can sign his name imo. He better pick the woods too.

Bruce S. de Lis
04-15-2005, 12:56 PM
Check out the (2) Links Below....


Almost everything you need to do some Cue building.

http://www.cuestik.com/cuestik/cata...linkon=category

http://www.cuecomponents.com

End Results could Vary from Person to Person..

k-carson
04-15-2005, 01:07 PM
Hey K-carson,
Half of your statement was true.... Balabushka bought blanks from Burton Spain. Gus Szamboti didn't buy blanks from Burton. Gus made blanks for Balabushka also..
Let's keep the reputation of a great cuemaker intact....
Best,
Ken

I stand corrected , but Gus didnt make his own blanks for the first 3 years he built cues

k-carson
04-15-2005, 01:13 PM
Sorry for beating around the bush. But it did get my answer. Now do I just let is drop or do I go there and say 'what are you trying to pull here?'

well you said the cue seller is a good guy earlier , He doesnt have to be trying to pull the wool over on anybody . there could be several reason
just ask him why it isnt signed the answer may be simple

X Breaker
04-15-2005, 08:45 PM
Captain JR

So, do you have any picture to share with us, please?

Thank you.

Richard

Fred Agnir
04-16-2005, 11:33 AM
I stand corrected , but Gus didnt make his own blanks for the first 3 years he built cues
Just to clarify, there were only a dozen or so of his early cues that weren't his own blanks. He bought blanks from the WICO company.

Fred

Fred Agnir
04-16-2005, 11:34 AM
Sorry for beating around the bush. But it did get my answer. Now do I just let is drop or do I go there and say 'what are you trying to pull here?'
What answer did you get? What do you need to drop? What is it that you think he's "pulling here"?

Fred

deadstroke32
04-16-2005, 05:55 PM
What answer did you get? What do you need to drop? What is it that you think he's "pulling here"?

Fred

Hay Jr .
Go with your gut .It's your money .But if u don't feel right .jus walk away ..i know a guy who sold a cue and told it was custom and it was not .Cause it came for over sea with 20,000 others.That was about $90.00 new and sold way more then that ..Find the mader and ask them did they make the cue ..
Good luck....

cuedoctor
04-16-2005, 06:27 PM
Sorry for beating around the bush. But it did get my answer. Now do I just let is drop or do I go there and say 'what are you trying to pull here?'
IF YOU DONT HAVE PHOTOS TO POST OF THIS CUE THAN THIS THREAD IS USELESS. TAKE THE CUE TO A LOCAL CUEMAKER FOR HELP BUT LETS NOT WASTE ALL THIS TIME DISCUSSING A CUE THAT MAY NOT EVEN EXIST. JUST ASK JIMBO ABOUT THESE SENSELSS POST! I CANT EVEN BELIEVE HOW MANY RESPONSES THIS CRAP GOT,ITS LIKE SHARKS IN THE WATER THINKING THERE GOING TO GET A CRACK AT AQUIRING A BALBUSHKA OR SOMETHING.
LOL
:o

Cricket
04-16-2005, 07:31 PM
Mike Johnson, (Jensen Cues) for years would not sign his cues, however , under the wrap he always signs and dates (year) his custom cues. He has however been signing all his cues with a small jc now for about 5 or 6 years. He still doesn't do it on most of his "low-ends", but he would on one that costs $800.00. If I were you, I would definitely send him a picture to see if it's one of his.

Jack Madden
04-16-2005, 08:28 PM
Check with the cuemaker - he may have signed it but if the cue has been refinished the signature may have been lost. He maybe able to identify the cue.
Jack
www.johnmaddencues.com