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claymont
04-16-2005, 02:30 PM
http://www.bestbilliard.com/test/index.cfm

Fred Agnir
04-16-2005, 03:13 PM
http://www.bestbilliard.com/test/index.cfm

Funny. The people at Best Billiards should have consulted with BCA instructors and anyone else involved in the game before making such a quiz. IMO, they end up looking at a company that doesn't have their finger on the pulse of the sport.

Fred <~~~ 57" cue?

fxskater
04-16-2005, 03:32 PM
Yeah, i scored a 95% right choosing the BEST answers, but they weren't all 100% clear and right. Its tough to allow your users to ask thier own question, and expect to have everything simple to understand.

pooltchr
04-16-2005, 05:59 PM
I only got a 95%...I want to know which one I missed!!!!
Steve

DoomCue
04-17-2005, 09:59 AM
I only got a 95%...I want to know which one I missed!!!!
Steve

You can see the answers here (http://www.bestbilliard.com/test/cheater.cfm).

What I want to know is, who says it's not acceptable to drop the elbow during the follow through? Who cares what happens to your elbow after cue tip/cue ball contact?

3) When stroking the ball, it is acceptable for the elbow to drop on the follow- through.
a) True
b) False
Correct Answer: B

pooltchr
04-17-2005, 10:52 AM
Dropping the elbow has been discussed at length on every forum around. The general concensus of most BCA instructors is that dropping the elbow is not a good idea.
Steve

Thanks for the answer key...I mis-read one of the questions....Damn!

Steve

vapoolplayer
04-17-2005, 11:10 AM
thats funny, in question number 18, they ask which kind of "english" will deviate the 90 degree angle...........

and the answer is

a. follow (top spin)


thats funny, seeings how straight topspin is NOT english........

what a bullshit quiz.

VAP

Fred Agnir
04-17-2005, 11:48 AM
Dropping the elbow has been discussed at length on every forum around. The general concensus of most BCA instructors is that dropping the elbow is not a good idea.
Steve

Thanks for the answer key...I mis-read one of the questions....Damn!

Steve
Yeah, but the question is completely worded incorrectly. Of course it's acceptable to drop the elbow. There is no foul against it. And there's precedence for greatness with it, regardless of the philosophy of orthodox methods.

Fred

jjinfla
04-17-2005, 05:36 PM
Only 3% of the people taking this test were able to score 95% or better.

So much for that theory that there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this board.

Jake

Teacherman
04-17-2005, 05:49 PM
A very high percentage of the top players drop their elbows.

There is book/theory and there is reality.

vapoolplayer
04-17-2005, 05:52 PM
A very high percentage of the top players drop their elbows.

There is book/theory and there is reality.


tap tap tap

VAP

vapoolplayer
04-17-2005, 05:53 PM
Only 3% of the people taking this test were able to score 95% or better.

So much for that theory that there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this board.

Jake


jake.........shutup........ :rolleyes:

VAP

Bob Jewett
04-17-2005, 07:48 PM
A very high percentage of the top players drop their elbows.

There is book/theory and there is reality.
Actually, there is one top player who doesn't drop his elbow even for power shots, but all the other players I've watched do drop their elbows for power shots. A lot of players (including top players) have two different strokes. For soft shots, the elbow doesn't move. If they have to follow the ball up the table and back, the elbow does drop. Many players drop the elbow about the thickness of the upper arm on power shots. Some bring the elbow down a lot more.

I think good books are based on reality.

Teacherman
04-17-2005, 08:15 PM
Actually, there is one top player who doesn't drop his elbow even for power shots, but all the other players I've watched do drop their elbows for power shots. A lot of players (including top players) have two different strokes. For soft shots, the elbow doesn't move. If they have to follow the ball up the table and back, the elbow does drop. Many players drop the elbow about the thickness of the upper arm on power shots. Some bring the elbow down a lot more.

I think good books are based on reality.

Thank you for confirming that almost all drop their elbow.

Bob Jewett
04-17-2005, 08:32 PM
Thank you for confirming that almost all drop their elbow.
And for extra credit on the quiz, which one top player almost never drops his elbow? (I suppose there could be more than one, but of the ones I've watched for elbow drop, only one stands out.)

Hal
04-17-2005, 08:40 PM
And for extra credit on the quiz, which one top player almost never drops his elbow? (I suppose there could be more than one, but of the ones I've watched for elbow drop, only one stands out.)
Tony Robles

RussellK
04-18-2005, 12:18 AM
Am I the only person on this board that scored a 100%?

The question about the deviation from 90 degrees didn't give using draw as an one of the options. This is another way to get the cue ball to deviate off the tangent line. Use follow to go longer than 90 degrees and use draw to go less than 90 degrees.

Russell Killgo

Hal
04-18-2005, 03:02 AM
I scored 100% as well. I should be listed on the winners board.

Zims Rack
04-18-2005, 03:29 AM
[QUOTE=Teacherman]A very high percentage of the top players drop their elbows.

After years of compensating and adapting their stroke to overcome the flaw!

Zim

JimS
04-18-2005, 03:41 AM
"I think good books are based on reality." Bob Jewett

Reality according to whom? Kant? Camus? Castanada? Nixon? :)

I say potaaaato ..... you say potahto.

But I like your perception of pool reality and I've sure as hell learned a whole lot from your writings. (I'm admittedly "sucking up" now because I sure don't want to be seen as offering up an intellectual challange here. :) )

vapoolplayer
04-18-2005, 03:46 AM
[QUOTE=Teacherman]A very high percentage of the top players drop their elbows.

After years of compensating and adapting their stroke to overcome the flaw!

Zim

if the stroke is straight, and the ball has already left the tip of the cue when the elbow starts dropping.................then what did they have to adapt too?????????

VAP

pete lafond
04-18-2005, 04:07 AM
thats funny, in question number 18, they ask which kind of "english" will deviate the 90 degree angle...........

and the answer is

a. follow (top spin)


thats funny, seeings how straight topspin is NOT english........

what a bullshit quiz.

VAP
In my opinion anytime you hit the cue ball anyplace you impart english. I think they should define english this way period.

Zims Rack
04-18-2005, 04:22 AM
In my opinion anytime you hit the cue ball anyplace you impart english. I think they should define english this way period.
Why call it english, just spin. Top spin, bottom spin, left spin, right spin, etc...


Zim

Zims Rack
04-18-2005, 04:23 AM
if the stroke is straight, and the ball has already left the tip of the cue when the elbow starts dropping.................then what did they have to adapt too?????????

VAP
I'm sure there was some adjusting in their stroke to get the timing just right to contact the CB in the "sweet spot" of the stroke.

Zim

Fred Agnir
04-18-2005, 07:25 AM
[QUOTE=Teacherman]A very high percentage of the top players drop their elbows.

After years of compensating and adapting their stroke to overcome the flaw!

Zim

People say this all the time, but I think in the dropping elbow, a case can be made that this is a perfectly acceptable technique.

I'm no kinesthiologist or physiologists, but dropping the elbow allows for more power, if power is what people are looking for. It's a natural happenstance, which is why so many people do it. Fighting to keep the elbow up is really "adapting and compensating" when compared to the body's natural movement.

When people talk about "less movement is better," the same people say "a loose wrist gets best results." There's a reason why the body will want more movement: because the body can get speed and/or power easier. And if you fight your body's natural movements to get more speed and/or power, is that really a good thing? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Note: I'm just talking about power and speed. I'm not talking about control or consistency.

There's really more discussion on this subject than can be done on one of these boards. I invite to look me up and we'll talk about it.

Fred <~~~ it's all about expanding one's comfort range.

Fred Agnir
04-18-2005, 07:28 AM
Am I the only person on this board that scored a 100%?

The question about the deviation from 90 degrees didn't give using draw as an one of the options. This is another way to get the cue ball to deviate off the tangent line. Use follow to go longer than 90 degrees and use draw to go less than 90 degrees.

Russell Killgo
Anyone could score a 100%. But some of the questions are wrong to begin with, so did you really score 100%?

Again, it is perfectly acceptable to drop the elbow. There are no rules against it. And there are people who teach it. So, the question was wrong to begin with.

Congratulations.

Fred

Bob Jewett
04-18-2005, 12:02 PM
... Again, it is perfectly acceptable to drop the elbow. There are no rules against it. And there are people who teach it. So, the question was wrong to begin with. ...
But the web site has an out -- they refer to the specific course the questions were used in. It's like other quizzes that start, "According to a recent article in 'The National Enquirer,' which Hollywood celebrity is actually a space alien from ..."

I got 90% and I think I missed exactly the two questions I expected to. Does that give me a 100?

Bob Jewett
04-18-2005, 12:06 PM
In my opinion anytime you hit the cue ball anyplace you impart english. I think they should define english this way period.
Side spin and draw/follow cause very different things to happen that relate directly to play. I think you need to separate them in discussions. I usually try to be specific, but I think using "english" to mean side spin and not draw or follow is a good start. Lots of other people have adopted this way of speaking, so even if you don't agree with it, you need to realize that such usage is common.

vapoolplayer
04-18-2005, 12:09 PM
In my opinion anytime you hit the cue ball anyplace you impart english. I think they should define english this way period.


no offense.........but it doesn't matter how you define it. the universal definition for "english" is sidespin.

it makes more sense everywhere else but the U.S. because they call it "side" which is closer to the defintion.


i always just refer to it as "sidespin" so i don't confuse anyone.

VAP

Bob Jewett
04-18-2005, 12:14 PM
[QUOTE=Teacherman]A very high percentage of the top players drop their elbows.

After years of compensating and adapting their stroke to overcome the flaw! ...
Well, maybe, but... Can you name any top player -- except for the one already mentioned -- who does not drop his (or her) elbow on power strokes? If you cannot name any other player, then maybe there is a reason that they do drop their elbows -- nearly every one.

Of course, it is dangerous to argue by "everyone does such-and-do" especially if the statement doesn't even apply to a majority, but I think my observations are extensive and careful enough to at least put them out there and invite contrary observations.

Fred Agnir
04-18-2005, 01:00 PM
And for extra credit on the quiz, which one top player almost never drops his elbow? (I suppose there could be more than one, but of the ones I've watched for elbow drop, only one stands out.)

Buddy Hall? Karen Corr?

Allison drop hers on power shots, especially the break.

randyg
04-18-2005, 02:44 PM
Here we go!

There are three types of elbow drops. Two are very dangerous and one that dosn't make any difference at all....SPF-randyg

Captain
04-18-2005, 02:48 PM
People say this all the time, but I think in the dropping elbow, a case can be made that this is a perfectly acceptable technique.
Fred <~~~ it's all about expanding one's comfort range.

I agree, Fred. During the last week I've watched tapes of Rempe, Souquet, Lee Kun Fang, and Takahashi--all elbow droppers from hell--and I don't think their technique handicaps them in any way.

Some well-known instructors teach a no-drop stroke, but they may do so at least partly because a no-drop stroke is relatively easy to teach and learn, and enables beginners and intermediate players to pocket balls and move the cb with some consistency.

AS

Purdman
04-18-2005, 03:14 PM
I got 80 %. I think that means I got all the answers correct. Can't beat that guys.
Purdman :D

pete lafond
04-18-2005, 06:56 PM
no offense.........but it doesn't matter how you define it. the universal definition for "english" is sidespin.

it makes more sense everywhere else but the U.S. because they call it "side" which is closer to the defintion.


i always just refer to it as "sidespin" so i don't confuse anyone.

VAP

Yes, it would make more sense. Right spin and left spin have the same effect on the same shot when your hitting the object ball on the right side or the the object ball on the left. I use the terms inside and outside english in describing this as it leaves no confusion. By definition of "english" it is incorrect to specify draw as english. I ignore this and always specify draw as low english and follow as high english. Middle ball is no english even though you affect spin by delaying it. Bottom line incorrect or not to me its all english and when I specify it to someone they are never confused. This in itself makes it a better definition.

DoomCue
04-18-2005, 10:00 PM
Yes, it would make more sense. Right spin and left spin have the same effect on the same shot when your hitting the object ball on the right side or the the object ball on the left. I use the terms inside and outside english in describing this as it leaves no confusion. By definition of "english" it is incorrect to specify draw as english. I ignore this and always specify draw as low english and follow as high english. Middle ball is no english even though you affect spin by delaying it. Bottom line incorrect or not to me its all english and when I specify it to someone they are never confused. This in itself makes it a better definition.

There is plenty of confusion for the terms inside and outside when talking about sidespin. The main problem is that "inside" and "outside" are relative terms, so without more information, inside and outside mean absolutely nothing. Since the terms are relative to cut angle, without a reference to cut angle, inside and outside are non-sensical terms. I've heard inside/outside terminology applied to spin off rails (wrong - running and reverse are the usual relative terms for spin off rails), as well as straight-in shots (wrong - no cut angle, so there's no such thing as inside/outside). I hear too many players using the terms incorrectly; I just wish they would stop altogether. Stick to simply left side or right side and you can't go wrong.

DoomCue
04-18-2005, 10:03 PM
So Bob, who was the non-elbow-dropper? I'm guessing it's a player with a snooker background, so I'll go with Steve Davis. That is purely a guess, though, since I don't think I've ever seen a player who doesn't drop the elbow (which, as we all know, is "unacceptable"....).

pete lafond
04-19-2005, 01:09 AM
There is plenty of confusion for the terms inside and outside when talking about sidespin. The main problem is that "inside" and "outside" are relative terms, so without more information, inside and outside mean absolutely nothing. Since the terms are relative to cut angle, without a reference to cut angle, inside and outside are non-sensical terms. I've heard inside/outside terminology applied to spin off rails (wrong - running and reverse are the usual relative terms for spin off rails), as well as straight-in shots (wrong - no cut angle, so there's no such thing as inside/outside). I hear too many players using the terms incorrectly; I just wish they would stop altogether. Stick to simply left side or right side and you can't go wrong.

Straight? You must mean when "throwing the ball". Thats a different term. Using the term "english" on all rotations is the point I was making. High, low, left and right. Whether right or wrong, I use the term "english" on all of these because they all impart spin and everyone knows what is being said.

Hal
04-19-2005, 01:34 AM
So Bob, who was the non-elbow-dropper? I'm guessing it's a player with a snooker background, so I'll go with Steve Davis. That is purely a guess, though, since I don't think I've ever seen a player who doesn't drop the elbow (which, as we all know, is "unacceptable"....).
Tony Robles

hard2ctrl
04-19-2005, 08:08 AM
Am I the only person on this board that scored a 100%?

The question about the deviation from 90 degrees didn't give using draw as an one of the options. This is another way to get the cue ball to deviate off the tangent line. Use follow to go longer than 90 degrees and use draw to go less than 90 degrees.

Russell Killgo


Russell,

Anyone could score a 100% on a test where the questions are correct, but only YOU, Russell Killgo can make 100% on a test where some of the questions are wrong to begin with. Congratulations!

I am NOT A “PROFESSIONAL POOL PLAYER”, but have played since I was 12 and I agree with Fred.

Russell, maybe if you would TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR DAUGHTER , your pool playing would go better. Or maybe it is just time to get a real job and start supporting your child.

Matt

DoomCue
04-19-2005, 08:08 AM
Straight? You must mean when "throwing the ball". Thats a different term.

Nope, I wrote what I meant. Neither inside nor outside can apply to a straight in shot since there is no cut angle, plain and simple, yet I hear players say they used outside on a straight-in shot. Well, is that left or right? Isn't it more definitive to just say left or right rather than an ambiguous relative term?

vapoolplayer
04-19-2005, 08:13 AM
Russell,

Anyone could score a 100% on a test where the questions are correct, but only YOU, Russell Killgo can make 100% on a test where some of the questions are wrong to begin with. Congratulations!

I am NOT A “PROFESSIONAL POOL PLAYER”, but have played since I was 12 and I agree with Fred.

Russell, maybe if you would TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR DAUGHTER , your pool playing would go better. Or maybe it is just time to get a real job and start supporting your child.

Matt

not sure if a public forum is the best place for this convo.......

VAP

hustlefinger
04-19-2005, 08:48 AM
Nope, I wrote what I meant. Neither inside nor outside can apply to a straight in shot since there is no cut angle, plain and simple, yet I hear players say they used outside on a straight-in shot. Well, is that left or right? Isn't it more definitive to just say left or right rather than an ambiguous relative term?

Left and right could be ambiguous too, depending upon perspective. :D We could also describe side spin as clock face times. Which would give some degree as to how much top or bottom spin is used with the sidespin.

How bout latitude & longitude coordinates.

Rick

DoomCue
04-19-2005, 08:59 AM
Left and right could be ambiguous too, depending upon perspective. :D We could also describe side spin as clock face times. Which would give some degree as to how much top or bottom spin is used with the sidespin.

How bout latitude & longitude coordinates.

Rick

No matter where you stand in relation to the table, left spin is left spin and right spin is right spin. There's no ambiguity.

fxskater
04-19-2005, 09:27 AM
You can see the answers here (http://www.bestbilliard.com/test/cheater.cfm).

What I want to know is, who says it's not acceptable to drop the elbow during the follow through? Who cares what happens to your elbow after cue tip/cue ball contact?


this is the one that got me, total billsh*t.

5) When the cue is gripped properly, it should not touch the palm of your hand.
a) True
b) False
Correct Answer: A

pete lafond
04-19-2005, 10:11 AM
Nope, I wrote what I meant. Neither inside nor outside can apply to a straight in shot since there is no cut angle, plain and simple, yet I hear players say they used outside on a straight-in shot. Well, is that left or right? Isn't it more definitive to just say left or right rather than an ambiguous relative term?


Understand that there is no reason to hit an object ball with left or right on a straight shot except if a throw is in mind. In which case you are talking about something entirely differnent, "a throw". Which is to affect the ball. Inside and outside english do affect the ball, but its effect is already understood, rather the intent is to dictate the direction of the cue ball off the rail for position. If anyone is telling you they are hitting a straight shot with left or right spin and are not primarily concerned with a throw, you better re-examine their billiard capability.

Anyway just consider inside and outside english as a tool to affect cue ball position, primary. Consider "throw" as another independant shot with the shot making in mind as primary with position as secondary. To mix the two would surely cause confusion.

pete lafond
04-19-2005, 10:14 AM
No matter where you stand in relation to the table, left spin is left spin and right spin is right spin. There's no ambiguity.

Not accurate, object ball and cue are lined up in the middle of the table. Which pocket - left or right. (does not need to be lined in the middle either).

pete lafond
04-19-2005, 10:15 AM
not sure if a public forum is the best place for this convo.......

VAP

Good call. This is not the place.

pete lafond
04-19-2005, 10:18 AM
this is the one that got me, total billsh*t.

I agree, that is the only one I got wrong according to the test. Bad question, your 100% correct.

crawdaddio
04-19-2005, 10:20 AM
100%
That test was too easy, and also...........bullplop.
The questions are worded horribly.

Anyways.....I'm the best.......nyah nyah nyah nah!!!

I used the name "fytdtsrz" cuz I didn't trust the site.

http://www.bestbilliard.com/test/winners.cfm

BTW-I'm an elbow dropper, like 95% of all players.
~DC

DoomCue
04-19-2005, 10:29 AM
Understand that there is no reason to hit an object ball with left or right on a straight shot except if a throw is in mind. In which case you are talking about something entirely differnent, "a throw". Which is to affect the ball. Inside and outside english do affect the ball, but its effect is already understood, rather the intent is to dictate the direction of the cue ball off the rail for position. If anyone is telling you they are hitting a straight shot with left or right spin and are not primarily concerned with a throw, you better re-examine their billiard capability.

Anyway just consider inside and outside english as a tool to affect cue ball position, primary. Consider "throw" as another independant shot with the shot making in mind as primary with position as secondary. To mix the two would surely cause confusion.

I repeat, I wrote what I meant. I am NOT talking about throw, you are. Throw is an object ball phenomenon. I'm talking about cue ball spin and the proper use of language in describing said spin. I repeat, if a shot is straight-in, there is no such thing as either inside or outside spin. If you can't figure that out, then never mind.

-djb

DoomCue
04-19-2005, 10:36 AM
Not accurate, object ball and cue are lined up in the middle of the table. Which pocket - left or right. (does not need to be lined in the middle either).
What in the hell are you talking about? If you hit the CB on the left side, it's left hand spin. No matter where you stand, whether you're the shooter or a spectator, it's still left hand spin. I'm talking about SPIN, specifically rotation about the vertical axis of the sphere we call a cue ball. I'm not talking about pockets, your hands, your eyes, throw, or anything else. SPIN. Sheesh.

-djb

fxskater
04-19-2005, 10:44 AM
Understand that there is no reason to hit an object ball with left or right on a straight shot except if a throw is in mind. In which case you are talking about something entirely differnent, "a throw". Which is to affect the ball. Inside and outside english do affect the ball, but its effect is already understood, rather the intent is to dictate the direction of the cue ball off the rail for position. If anyone is telling you they are hitting a straight shot with left or right spin and are not primarily concerned with a throw, you better re-examine their billiard capability.

Anyway just consider inside and outside english as a tool to affect cue ball position, primary. Consider "throw" as another independant shot with the shot making in mind as primary with position as secondary. To mix the two would surely cause confusion.

Hmmm, i dont mean to be an asshole, but you better check your billiard ability if you think straight in shots never require english unless throw is involved. I'll show you one on the WEI table that requires english. Well i shouldn't say requires, but this is how i play it anyways.

Shot (How do you play it?):
START(
%Aq7G5%BC9O9%Hr9Q5%IU1G8%Jo8D0%Kd5D1%LO4Z2%MD5D4%N ^1L4%O[4Z4
%Pp4N7%eC1b0
)END

My way:
START(
%Aq7G5%BC9O9%Hr9Q5%IU1G8%Jo8D0%Kd5D1%LO4Z2%MD5D4%N ^1L4%O[4Z4
%Pp4N7%Un3Z3%Vq6G9%Ws8C0%Xq8F6%[H8F4%\m2[0%eC1b0
)END

But I like stroking the ball. I honestly don't see any other option here. That is, assuming the tables are tight and i can't cheat the pocket to create an angle.

pete lafond
04-19-2005, 10:49 AM
Hmmm, i dont mean to be an asshole, but you better check your billiard ability if you think straight in shots never require english unless throw is involved. I'll show you one on the WEI table that requires english. Well i shouldn't say requires, but this is how i play it anyways.

Shot (How do you play it?):
START(
%Aq7G5%BC9O9%Hr9Q5%IU1G8%Jo8D0%Kd5D1%LO4Z2%MD5D4%N ^1L4%O[4Z4
%Pp4N7%eC1b0
)END

My way:
START(
%Aq7G5%BC9O9%Hr9Q5%IU1G8%Jo8D0%Kd5D1%LO4Z2%MD5D4%N ^1L4%O[4Z4
%Pp4N7%Un3Z3%Vq6G9%Ws8C0%Xq8F6%[H8F4%\m2[0%eC1b0
)END

But I like stroking the ball. I honestly don't see any other option here. That is, assuming the tables are tight and i can't cheat the pocket to create an angle.

Can you give me the link so that I can check it out? Thanks.

hustlefinger
04-19-2005, 10:51 AM
No matter where you stand in relation to the table, left spin is left spin and right spin is right spin. There's no ambiguity.

Your left or my left?

BazookaJoe
04-19-2005, 10:52 AM
Who uses spin for anything except to legthen or shorten the angle of the cueball after contacting the rail?

Am I missing some point to this argument? :confused:

Anytime spin is applied to a ball throw must be compensated for.

A pocket may be cheated on a straight-in shot.
But then, it really isn't straight anymore.
Right?
If by a straight-in shot it means that the ball, the cueball, and the pocket are lined up directly, the outside or inside is used in relation to the direction of the throw (not exactly a phenomenon when compared to say........the aurora borealis).

BazookaJoe
04-19-2005, 10:55 AM
Hmmm, i dont mean to be an asshole, but you better check your billiard ability if you think straight in shots never require english unless throw is involved. I'll show you one on the WEI table that requires english. Well i shouldn't say requires, but this is how i play it anyways.

Shot (How do you play it?):
START(
%Aq7G5%BC9O9%Hr9Q5%IU1G8%Jo8D0%Kd5D1%LO4Z2%MD5D4%N ^1L4%O[4Z4
%Pp4N7%eC1b0
)END

My way:
START(
%Aq7G5%BC9O9%Hr9Q5%IU1G8%Jo8D0%Kd5D1%LO4Z2%MD5D4%N ^1L4%O[4Z4
%Pp4N7%Un3Z3%Vq6G9%Ws8C0%Xq8F6%[H8F4%\m2[0%eC1b0
)END

But I like stroking the ball. I honestly don't see any other option here. That is, assuming the tables are tight and i can't cheat the pocket to create an angle.

I would not consider the shot illustrated as "straight in"
You have an angle to work with there

DoomCue
04-19-2005, 10:59 AM
Your left or my left?

I hope you're being facetious. If not, ask yourself a question. Think about it before you answer. If I spin the cue ball in place and walk around the table, will it ever suddenly start spinning in the opposite direction?

-djb

fxskater
04-19-2005, 11:20 AM
I would not consider the shot illustrated as "straight in"
You have an angle to work with there

I meant it to be straight in, maybe my eyes are off. If i say its straight in and my drawing is off it IS straight in.


WEI TABLE HERE (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

fxskater
04-19-2005, 11:27 AM
Fixed so its visually straight in now.
START(
%Aq9G3%BC9O9%Hr9Q5%IU1G8%Jo8D0%Kd5D1%LO4Z2%MD5D4%N ^1L4%O[4Z4
%Po9N5%Ul6Z8%Vq8G9%Ws5B9%Xr2F7%[H8F4%\m2[0%eC1b0
)END

pete lafond
04-19-2005, 12:33 PM
Who uses spin for anything except to legthen or shorten the angle of the cueball after contacting the rail?

Am I missing some point to this argument? :confused:

Anytime spin is applied to a ball throw must be compensated for.

A pocket may be cheated on a straight-in shot.
But then, it really isn't straight anymore.
Right?
If by a straight-in shot it means that the ball, the cueball, and the pocket are lined up directly, the outside or inside is used in relation to the direction of the throw (not exactly a phenomenon when compared to say........the aurora borealis).

Exactly what I am saying. Thanks,

pete lafond
04-19-2005, 12:39 PM
What in the hell are you talking about? If you hit the CB on the left side, it's left hand spin. No matter where you stand, whether you're the shooter or a spectator, it's still left hand spin. I'm talking about SPIN, specifically rotation about the vertical axis of the sphere we call a cue ball. I'm not talking about pockets, your hands, your eyes, throw, or anything else. SPIN. Sheesh.

-djb

Just as you are confused, so is left and right confusing without clearification to hitiong the left side or the right side of the object ball. "Inside english" and "outside english" are both the proper definitions. You seem upset. This is not meant to do that, only to provide the correct terms.

pete lafond
04-19-2005, 12:48 PM
I meant it to be straight in, maybe my eyes are off. If i say its straight in and my drawing is off it IS straight in.


WEI TABLE HERE (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

If the shot was meant to be straight in then either you plan to follow the cue ball in the pocket or stop it somewhere before the pocket. No left or right english is required. If you are throwing the ball for position then you are throwing it, not englishing, because english appies to acquiring position. If you plan to hit a rail after, then you are cutting the ball ever so slightly. And if you are doing that and require english "FOR POSITION" then you are adding inside or outside english. Please explain this because I see nothing different.

Fred Agnir
04-19-2005, 01:23 PM
Understand that there is no reason to hit an object ball with left or right on a straight shot except if a throw is in mind. .
Apparently drawing straight back with english is out of the question.

Fred

Fred Agnir
04-19-2005, 01:26 PM
Just as you are confused, so is left and right confusing without clearification to hitiong the left side or the right side of the object ball. "Inside english" and "outside english" are both the proper definitions. You seem upset. This is not meant to do that, only to provide the correct terms.I think he's not upset. He's frustrated that you seemingly never understood his initial post yet continue to hammer on something unrelated.

Obviously, the simple questions he raisedes are "why would anyone call the english used in on a straight in shot 'outside' or 'inside' english?" and "why do people say 'inside' or 'outside' english when referencing the cue ball interaction with the cushion?"

I have an answer, but I think you've muddied up his question enough.

Fred

Fred Agnir
04-19-2005, 01:37 PM
Since the terms are relative to cut angle, without a reference to cut angle, inside and outside are non-sensical terms. .Not non-sensical, but rather generic. I don't think there's anything wrong with this, except for the players who don't stick to the same convention of what the majority of us understand as outside and inside english.

Plus, it's sexy cool to say,

"I thinned it with inside to hold up whitey"

as opposed to

"I cut the 14-ball thinly to the right corner pocket with right-hand english on the cuedball causing the cueball to slow down it's speed after it hit the adjacent cushion "


Fred

pete lafond
04-19-2005, 01:58 PM
Apparently drawing straight back with english is out of the question.

Fred

I did not see the draw until I went back. Thanks for pointing it out. Inside and outside english now applies to the left or right side you plan to draw the ball back on after contact with the rail. Thanks again.

DoomCue
04-19-2005, 02:08 PM
I did not see the draw until I went back. Thanks for pointing it out. Inside and outside english now applies to the left or right side you plan to draw the ball back on after contact with the rail. Thanks again.
Never mind, troll.

-djb

Hal
04-20-2005, 12:41 AM
No matter where you stand in relation to the table, left spin is left spin and right spin is right spin. There's no ambiguity.
I agree with doom. If you're cutting a ball into the upper left pocket with outside english, you are using right spin. If you're cutting a ball into the upper right pocket with outside english your using left spin. Simply saying outside and inside spin isn't enough information because outside can be either left or right english as explained above. But left spin is definitely left spin no matter what pocket you cut it into. Right spin is definitely right spin no matter what pocket you cut a ball into. I also agree that once you throw a ball or cheat a pocket, then the shot isn't straight in anymore because you created an angle.

Rackin_Zack
04-20-2005, 01:43 AM
I got a 95% :( I missed the one about two ball groups. I originally had false for the answer but then I figured that since it was a "beginners" quiz it could be two instead of three minimum. Oh well, I guess I'm a loser even though I got my name on the board...lol.

LOU'S CUE'S
04-20-2005, 05:45 AM
geeee, and I got 100% !!!

" I'D RATHER BE LUCKY, THAN GOOD"