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LiL_C
04-17-2005, 07:47 AM
Has anyone out there who plays alot ever get to the point where they feel like there not getting any better and all the practice and everything dosen't seem to help? If so how do you stay focused on getting better and what do do you do to get there. I play for about 6 to 7 hrs a day 7 days a week and I do drills and just play. I feel like I'm stuck I play alot of good players but can't get any of them to teach me because they feel its going to come back and haunt them in the long run any suggestions? Most of the time I win when I shoulden't is because of my heart and the fact that I'm not scared to play anyone and I'll bet my money so theres no problem there I have the heart and the will to succeed just not the knowledge.

Teacherman
04-17-2005, 07:55 AM
I would quit.

sjm
04-17-2005, 07:55 AM
Has anyone out there who plays alot ever get to the point where they feel like there not getting any better and all the practice and everything dosen't seem to help? If so how do you stay focused on getting better and what do do you do to get there. I play for about 6 to 7 hrs a day 7 days a week and I do drills and just play. I feel like I'm stuck I play alot of good players but can't get any of them to teach me because they feel its going to come back and haunt them in the long run any suggestions? Most of the time I win when I shoulden't is because of my heart and the fact that I'm not scared to play anyone and I'll bet my money so theres no problem there I have the heart and the will to succeed just not the knowledge.


Here's a novel idea. Spend a bit less time practicing, and a bit more time watching top players. It has always amazed me how many players there are out there who think they can become a top player without dedicating some of their time to studying the play of the pros.

If you can't afford to attend pro events, then get your hands on a load of Accu-stats tapes, and study the play of the pros. If you are prepared to study their every decision and compare it to what you would have done, and take the trouble to learn the lessons offered by reconciling your choice with theirs, you'll be amazed at how much you learn.

If you're putting in the hours, but your game isn't developing, it suggests that you need to have you r playing horizons broadened.

Attend some pro events and study Accu-stats matches, and your knowledge will go up. Believe it!

larrynj1
04-17-2005, 08:40 AM
I would quit.

good one, teacherman, LMAO!!

Bruce S. de Lis
04-17-2005, 08:43 AM
I would quit.




I would find PLAYER BETTER than you to Play with, and hopefully motovate you to improve. ;)

JustPlay
04-17-2005, 09:02 AM
Get away from the local scene and hit the road and bring lots of cash....What are your goals, what do want to accomplish? World Champion or just a good local player?? Can you run 200 in straight pool? Get a job! Go to school! Get a life, stop wasting your life 10 hours a day 7 days a week in a pool room! What have you gotten out of this? Any famous noterity, or a contract with a cue maker? Major tournament wins? I really don't like jumping on your back, but you can still play great pool and have a good life outside of it. Take a step back and evaluate everything. Best wishes.

ceebee
04-17-2005, 09:05 AM
I have the heart and the will to succeed just not the knowledge.

Knowledge is the catalyst for the physical & the talent.

What level of player are you? This is where your honesty shows.

If you ask local players for assistance & they won't provide it, call a professional instructor in another town. Try to find one relatively close so you can take a series of lessons. The Instructor should play a few rounds with you before making any judgement about your weak points.

Do you know the diamond system & how the cue ball tracks around the table? Can you kick balls, one rail , two rails, three rails? Are your safeties top notch. How is your break shot?

Do you study books like 99 Critical shots & practice these pattern shots? Do you study Videos to watch the pattern play of the Pros?

REMEMBER THIS, playing pool ain't easy like falling off a log. You can stumble around & try to learn the game via "OSMOSIS" or gain some knowledge about the game from study & taking lessons.

NOTE: Tiger Woods is one of the greatest Golf Players ever, he also takes lessons to this very day.

pooltchr
04-17-2005, 10:44 AM
http://www.bca-pool.com/play/instruction/BCA_Instructors_Active.htm

Try looking here.

Steve

drivermaker
04-17-2005, 11:08 AM
Has anyone out there who plays alot ever get to the point where they feel like there not getting any better and all the practice and everything dosen't seem to help? I feel like I'm stuck I play alot of good players but can't get any of them to teach me because they feel its going to come back and haunt them in the long run any suggestions? I'm not scared to play anyone and I'll bet my money so theres no problem there I have the heart and the will to succeed just not the knowledge.



Posts that come up like this on a regular basis just blow my mind. Why are pool players in general so damn cheap or proud to go get lessons?

If you have all the money to bet it up and aren't afraid to do that, then get some damn lessons. Don't dick around with just anybody....go right to the players that have either played for big bucks gambling and made a name for themselves or had great tournament records. Go to Grady, Mike Sigel, Varner, Johnny Archer, Allison Fisher, Jeanette Lee/George Breedlove...all of whom give lessons. Use some common sense....

vapoolplayer
04-17-2005, 11:15 AM
Posts that come up like this on a regular basis just blow my mind. Why are pool players in general so damn cheap or proud to go get lessons?

If you have all the money to bet it up and aren't afraid to do that, then get some damn lessons. Don't dick around with just anybody....go right to the players that have either played for big bucks gambling and made a name for themselves or had great tournament records. Go to Grady, Mike Sigel, Varner, Johnny Archer, Allison Fisher, Jeanette Lee/George Breedlove...all of whom give lessons. Use some common sense....


but DM, then they wouldn't be able to come on here and say how good they, because they would find out how much is REALLY wrong with their game.

i always love the "i'm good, BUT"

always has that BUT in there.

then when you talk about spending money, oh hell, they're good enough where they're at.

everybody's a world beater...........

VAP

ceebee
04-17-2005, 11:33 AM
[QUOTE=drivermaker]Posts that come up like this on a regular basis just blow my mind. Why are pool players in general so damn cheap or proud to go get lessons? [ENDQUOTE]

Pool players have a history of "trying to or having to" learn on their own.
Asking "hot shot Johnny" one thing, then asking "shoot straight Sam" another, has been the "modus operandus" of players around the world, in all kinds of games.

Most people didn't care to make good grades in school, studying was like a disease to them. Now those kind of people are huddled somewhere in the heap, rather than on top somewhere, I am one of them. If I could go back, I would make the straight "A"s, I was capable of.

I am a good player & I wish there was a local billiard coach in my neck of the woods. I'd pay my $40 a week to enhance my skills. We play lots of ring games here & $40 is CHUMP CHANGE.

NOTE; there is NOT one certified instructor in the entire city of Tulsa, OK. The city is full of pool playing gamblers, good ones too, but the city will not support an instructor. The city is actually crawling with thousands of players in leagues, but the city will not support an instructor.

The players will manage to give some hotshot a few bucks, once in awhile, for the overnight game repair success, but we all know how that scenario plays out.

Great performers (top 10%) across the land, in many different type activities, learn from a good instructor & continue to learn throughout their career. Some performers (the naturals) never take a lesson & probably won't. They number about 10 performers in 20,000,000 wannabees

One other thing about performers & instructors... the greatest performers are not necessarily good instructors.

drivermaker
04-17-2005, 12:02 PM
[QUOTE=drivermaker]

I am a good player & I wish there was a local billiard coach in my neck of the woods. I'd pay my $40 a week to enhance my skills. We play lots of ring games here & $40 is CHUMP CHANGE.

NOTE; there is NOT one certified instructor in the entire city of Tulsa, OK. The city is full of pool playing gamblers, good ones too, but the city will not support an instructor. The city is actually crawling with thousands of players in leagues, but the city will not support an instructor.



Please visit: www.airtran.com and www.avis.com (not just you but anyone desiring to learn from a top instructor)
Hey, Mickey Mouse is in Orlando along with Mike Sigel...two birds can be killed with one stone and he's never been considered a Mickey Mouse player.

Snapshot9
04-17-2005, 12:20 PM
Because their is such a thing as being gifted or being hard working. Not all players are gifted, but they can still become good players by using their 'brain'.
Many people that shoot pool think they can become better without thinking about what they are doing at the time they are doing it ...

For every hour I have played Pool, I have probably put in 6-8 hours just thinking about Pool. Thinking about the game, about shots, about combinations, about english, about jump shots, about breaking, about the psychology involved with opponents, about sharking, about mental games opponents will run on you, about professional play, about big money matches. PLUS I watch 4 times more Pool than I ever play, and always have. There are times in my life I used to wake up at 3 in the morning thinking about a shot or from a Pool dream.

Knowledge in Pool is like anything else, it is a building block course that comes from intelligent study, observation, and experience....

I have been playing 43 years, and I was good after 1-2 years of play, but my overall knowledge and mental toughness was nowhere near what it is today.

It never surprises me when these 'kids' jump up and think they can beat me when they only have 1 way to beat me .... by not missing a ball .... when I have about a dozen ways I can defeat them ..... lol I can spot all of their weaknesses and exploit any one of them during the course of playing a match.
That is a very good reason to know your opponent and how good they shoot BEFORE you ever play them.

Many people do not have the right mental approach to the game ... defense is for sissies ... I am a ball maker (ball banger) .... If you ignore an aspect of the game, it will eventually come back to punish you because of it..... by losing, of course. Why should I learn to jump balls ... duh ... when an opponent makes 3 good jump shots and wins the match from you, then maybe you will find out ... but learn the right way from a qualified teacher ... How many players do you see try masse shots that don't know the first thing about them except to hit down on the side of the cue ball?

All really good players have put in countless hours watching, thinking, and studying the game. It is just like any other sport ... You have to approach with the right attitude, learn it the right way from a qualified instructor or by yourself if smart enough, and practice until it becomes somewhat natural for you. How many hours do you think Tiger Woods has just thought about Golf?
Or how many hours do you think CEO's think about business or comedians think about comedy.

People that want to become a serious good player put in the time, thought, and devotion, otherwise most people just like having fun shooting now and then .... and not everyone is capable of being a 10, just as everyone is not capable of being a Michael Jordon in basketball .... I know people that have shot Pool 20, 30 years that are just 5's, maybe a 6, and I know people that have shot 2 or 3 years that are 7's or 8's. I know people that have Masters, PHD's, or lawyers that are just a 5 level player, and people with GED's that are a 10-12 level (9 ball levels) in Pool. There are no hardfast rules ... That's one of the things about Pool I love, you meet people from all walks of life, many colorful characters, and can make some great friends ...

My brother plays Pool (he is 6 years older than me), was good when he was young and still is, but not as good as me (it's a little brother thing ...lol), won snooker championship at KU when going to school there, played big money matches ($1,000 sets and up), and I have done about the same, but he never taught me to play, I learned on my own .... He only gave me 1 piece of advice when he found out I was getting into Pool .... He said if you want to be good at it ... real good ... play for money ... and I did even if it was just for a $1 a game (which was a lot back when I was 14 and 15... early 60's).

You see, most people learn faster when they experience good or bad first hand .... more money is good, less money is bad ... and believe me when it is coming out of your pocket, you WILL learn faster than you would have otherwise .... lol

I hardly ever shoot Pool for free unless it is league play or a tournament. It is a money making venture for me and has been for years and years, and yes, I still enjoy it and have fun doing it ... but I have more fun when I win rather than when I lose ...

pooltchr
04-17-2005, 01:15 PM
[QUOTE=drivermaker]Posts that come up like this on a regular basis just blow my mind. Why are pool players in general so damn cheap or proud to go get lessons? [ENDQUOTE]

I am a good player & I wish there was a local billiard coach in my neck of the woods. I'd pay my $40 a week to enhance my skills. We play lots of ring games here & $40 is CHUMP CHANGE.

NOTE; there is NOT one certified instructor in the entire city of Tulsa, OK. The city is full of pool playing gamblers, good ones too, but the city will not support an instructor. The city is actually crawling with thousands of players in leagues, but the city will not support an instructor.

.

Call Bob Nunley...Very good instructor who works with some of the best instructors around.

OK POLTEAU NUNLEY, JR. ROBERT RECOGNIZED 918-649-0621 caneman@clnk.com

vapoolplayer
04-17-2005, 03:25 PM
Because their is such a thing as being gifted or being hard working. Not all players are gifted, but they can still become good players by using their 'brain'.
Many people that shoot pool think they can become better without thinking about what they are doing at the time they are doing it ...

For every hour I have played Pool, I have probably put in 6-8 hours just thinking about Pool. Thinking about the game, about shots, about combinations, about english, about jump shots, about breaking, about the psychology involved with opponents, about sharking, about mental games opponents will run on you, about professional play, about big money matches. PLUS I watch 4 times more Pool than I ever play, and always have. There are times in my life I used to wake up at 3 in the morning thinking about a shot or from a Pool dream.

Knowledge in Pool is like anything else, it is a building block course that comes from intelligent study, observation, and experience....

I have been playing 43 years, and I was good after 1-2 years of play, but my overall knowledge and mental toughness was nowhere near what it is today.

It never surprises me when these 'kids' jump up and think they can beat me when they only have 1 way to beat me .... by not missing a ball .... when I have about a dozen ways I can defeat them ..... lol I can spot all of their weaknesses and exploit any one of them during the course of playing a match.
That is a very good reason to know your opponent and how good they shoot BEFORE you ever play them.

Many people do not have the right mental approach to the game ... defense is for sissies ... I am a ball maker (ball banger) .... If you ignore an aspect of the game, it will eventually come back to punish you because of it..... by losing, of course. Why should I learn to jump balls ... duh ... when an opponent makes 3 good jump shots and wins the match from you, then maybe you will find out ... but learn the right way from a qualified teacher ... How many players do you see try masse shots that don't know the first thing about them except to hit down on the side of the cue ball?

All really good players have put in countless hours watching, thinking, and studying the game. It is just like any other sport ... You have to approach with the right attitude, learn it the right way from a qualified instructor or by yourself if smart enough, and practice until it becomes somewhat natural for you. How many hours do you think Tiger Woods has just thought about Golf?
Or how many hours do you think CEO's think about business or comedians think about comedy.

People that want to become a serious good player put in the time, thought, and devotion, otherwise most people just like having fun shooting now and then .... and not everyone is capable of being a 10, just as everyone is not capable of being a Michael Jordon in basketball .... I know people that have shot Pool 20, 30 years that are just 5's, maybe a 6, and I know people that have shot 2 or 3 years that are 7's or 8's. I know people that have Masters, PHD's, or lawyers that are just a 5 level player, and people with GED's that are a 10-12 level (9 ball levels) in Pool. There are no hardfast rules ... That's one of the things about Pool I love, you meet people from all walks of life, many colorful characters, and can make some great friends ...

My brother plays Pool (he is 6 years older than me), was good when he was young and still is, but not as good as me (it's a little brother thing ...lol), won snooker championship at KU when going to school there, played big money matches ($1,000 sets and up), and I have done about the same, but he never taught me to play, I learned on my own .... He only gave me 1 piece of advice when he found out I was getting into Pool .... He said if you want to be good at it ... real good ... play for money ... and I did even if it was just for a $1 a game (which was a lot back when I was 14 and 15... early 60's).

You see, most people learn faster when they experience good or bad first hand .... more money is good, less money is bad ... and believe me when it is coming out of your pocket, you WILL learn faster than you would have otherwise .... lol

I hardly ever shoot Pool for free unless it is league play or a tournament. It is a money making venture for me and has been for years and years, and yes, I still enjoy it and have fun doing it ... but I have more fun when I win rather than when I lose ...


tap tap tap

one of the best posts on AZB

thanks

VAP

vapoolplayer
04-17-2005, 03:32 PM
Please visit: www.airtran.com and www.avis.com (not just you but anyone desiring to learn from a top instructor)
Hey, Mickey Mouse is in Orlando along with Mike Sigel...two birds can be killed with one stone and he's never been considered a Mickey Mouse player.

LMAO!!!!!

thats too funny.

and before someone starts whining about money.........

i have bills out the ass, and don't make much money at all.............but i still find time to travel to see an instructor/s every month, and play in plenty of tourneys.

so there's no excuse.................if you love the game enough, you'll find a way.

if you can't find a way.........well............guess you better take up ping pong.

thanks

VAP

bobroberts
04-17-2005, 03:33 PM
You can practice for ever and have instructions from the best but if you don't have that God given ability like the top pros in the world, then its a losing cause.Get evaluated and get a real education.Most of the top pros hardly make enough money to support themselves.get out of the pool halls and get a life.

vapoolplayer
04-17-2005, 03:51 PM
You can practice for ever and have instructions from the best but if you don't have that God given ability like the top pros in the world, then its a losing cause.Get evaluated and get a real education.Most of the top pros hardly make enough money to support themselves.get out of the pool halls and get a life.

can you explain why some top pro's took 5 years to get to where they are and why some took 10????

can you explain why some top pro's practice only 4 hours a few times a week, and why some practice 12 hours a day???

also, when you say top pro's make enough to support themselves...........are you sure about that? how many top pro's do you know well enough to state that?

there are MANY top pro players, that BARELY get by, just because you see someone that made 40,000 last year doesn't mean they can support themselves. the overhead is through the roof(no pun intended)

most everyone has the hand/eye coordination to play this game(yes, some more than others)..........what makes the difference is heart, love for the game, motivation, etc, etc.

thanks

VAP

JustPlay
04-17-2005, 05:55 PM
Like I posted earlier, ....What is your goal you are trying to achive?? World Champion or good local player?....

You should seek lessons from the pro's.....The women have and that is why their mechanics are solid and so are their fundimentals.... and a little luck won't hurt you either!

sjm
04-17-2005, 06:04 PM
You should seek lessons from the pros. The women have and that is why their mechanics are solid and so are their fundimentals.

This strikes me as an odd claim. Are you able to substantiate that women are more inclined to take lessons from the top pros than men? That doesn't sound correct to me. In addition, I find the suggestion that women have more solid mechanics and fundamentals than men a little hard to fathom. Frankly, I think just the opposite is true, that men are more inclined to take action to solidify their mechanics and fundamentals.

vapoolplayer
04-17-2005, 06:08 PM
This strikes me as an odd claim. Are you able to substantiate that women are more inclined to take lessons from the top pros than men? That doesn't sound correct to me. In addition, I find the suggestion that women have more solid mechanics and fundamentals than men a little hard to fathom. Frankly, I think just the opposite is true, that men are more inclined to take action to solidify their mechanics and fundamentals.

i agree with sjm.

if you are stating that women have better mechanics.........then you are basically saying that mechanics isn't as important, because men, as a whole play much stronger than the women.

VAP

JustPlay
04-17-2005, 07:11 PM
I am not comparing men v women in any catagory. If you notice that all of the top women have similar mechanic's and there fundimentals are solid. Also, alot of top women players actually have taken lessons from pros. That is all that I am stating. Someone else, stated that the person from the original thread was at a stand still and suggest he spend some money on lessons with the top pros instead of practicing all day everyday to try and improve his game and also made the suggestion that alot of up and comming pool players seem to avoid taking lessons...


You guys (SJM & VAPOOLPLAYER) are reading too deep into what I stated...

LiL_C
04-18-2005, 06:18 AM
Thank you to the people who actually put in good advice and that was being helpful. I'm going to look into lessons this week I never said I wouldnt spend the money on them like someone insinuated. Its not about quitting I'm just stuck in a rut thats all and was looking for ideas. As far as the question goes how good do I wanna be well for starters the best in the city then I'll move up from there. For the guy who said I would just quit your a real ***** who probably cant play that good so that would be a easy out for you.

Teacherman
04-18-2005, 06:24 AM
Thank you very much. I can see by your attitude that you got the point.

HittMan
04-18-2005, 06:54 AM
Thank you to the people who actually put in good advice and that was being helpful.

This is the attitude that will get you where you want to be. I have always maintained that excellence in this game is mostly attitude (read mental). Almost anyone can learn the physical part but getting a grip on yourself will be much more challenging. Keeping a grip on yourself will be the real question. Take a look at hittcues.com (my site). Read and carefully consider the 5 pages of the Transcendental Pool section. It is quite basic because most physical problems (mechanics, etc) arise from the basics. I believe a conscioustious player will tear his/her game down periodically. It may help you to see the problem through a new set of eyes. Feel free to e-mail me if you have questions. Good luck...keep playing...keep looking. Excellence demands dedication.

vapoolplayer
04-18-2005, 12:21 PM
For the guy who said I would just quit your a real ***** who probably cant play that good so that would be a easy out for you.


thats more like it..........most people just run away with their tail between there legs.

VAP

bobroberts
04-20-2005, 09:31 AM
can you explain why some top pro's took 5 years to get to where they are and why some took 10????

can you explain why some top pro's practice only 4 hours a few times a week, and why some practice 12 hours a day???

also, when you say top pro's make enough to support themselves...........are you sure about that? how many top pro's do you know well enough to state that?

there are MANY top pro players, that BARELY get by, just because you see someone that made 40,000 last year doesn't mean they can support themselves. the overhead is through the roof(no pun intended)

most everyone has the hand/eye coordination to play this game(yes, some more than others)..........what makes the difference is heart, love for the game, motivation, etc, etc.

thanks

VAP

I dont have any idea what you are talking about.I stated that most top pros hardly make enough money.It takes some longer because there natural ability is not as good as others.You need to re read my post before comming down on me.
Bob

Mike Templeton
04-20-2005, 10:10 AM
Hey, Mickey Mouse is in Orlando along with Mike Sigel...two birds can be killed with one stone and he's never been considered a Mickey Mouse player.

LMAO!!!!!

thats too funny.

VAP
But I have heard alot of people say that he was f#cking Goofy. I hope that doesn't mean that he is into animal sex :D :D :D

LiL_C
04-25-2005, 06:49 AM
Well I'm going for my first One Hole lesson either tonight or tomorrow. They have this Old but nice guy thats been hanging around who Knows alot more about the game than most people in the city he just dosen't play it as much anymore. Well he's been comming in everyday for the last few months to watch me practice and watch me when I'm in action and He took a real liking to me and one day he asked me about some lessons. He asked if I would be interestd and I told him yes so he said ok I'll give you some because yo play really well in general but you make some choices in One Pocket that's just stupid and all I could tell him was yea I know so were gonna start fixing my game. Thanks again for all the help.

vapoolplayer
04-25-2005, 08:01 AM
I dont have any idea what you are talking about.I stated that most top pros hardly make enough money.It takes some longer because there natural ability is not as good as others.You need to re read my post before comming down on me.
Bob

sorry i misread the statement about the money...........

i didn't misread the part about god given ability, which some people keep on bringing up. .......some players don't have the natural talent and still make it to the top, its just takes longer and more work.

most of the time when someone tells themselves they don't have the natural ability, its not because of the ability........its because of the commitment the didn't make

VAP