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frankncali
05-03-2009, 12:14 PM
Situation -- Barbox 8ball
Race to 3 eight ball and the score is 2-2. I am Solids and its my shot.
What would you do?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD4kQmD4kQ uD4kQmD@

Patrick Johnson
05-03-2009, 12:20 PM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJPO2VY nd4kQmD3kIRe7kMip3kbHT3kHIl4kbnY2kasL2kUNx@

A safety is also possible, but harder IMO:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BJXO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJXO2VX cQ2VbFM2XYyd2Xawm2XNjD4kQmD3kHkc3kMBY@

pj
chgo

chin0
05-03-2009, 12:25 PM
My newbie skills would only allow me to cut that 5 in the corner and position myself for the 3, hit it with draw, come back for the 4, long shot with inside follow, drop the 2 in the corner and kill the 8 to the side. PJ's might be better since the cut on the 5 would have to be pretty thin.

ykndoit
05-03-2009, 12:26 PM
make the 2 w/ pocket speed. make the 4 down the rail, stop for the 5. make the 5 in corner, roll down for 3. make 3, come up table for 8.

other option if you don't feel comfortable shooting the 2 and leaving yourself on the 4, you can use a stun/draw shot and leave the cue ball below the 5 and 15, down near the 3 for a safety

Johnnyt
05-03-2009, 12:28 PM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJPO2VY nd4kQmD3kIRe7kMip3kbHT3kHIl4kbnY2kasL2kUNx@

A safety is also possible, but harder IMO:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BJXO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJXO2VX cQ2VbFM2XYyd2Xawm2XNjD4kQmD3kHkc3kMBY@

pj
chgo

2 in corner with little draw to the rail. 4 same corner with little follow. 3 oppiste corner with little follow for 5 in side. 8 in corner. game-set-pay me. Johnnyt

mdavis228
05-03-2009, 12:34 PM
I can tell you that where the 3 ball is, is a very good place for the cue ball - just a matter of how best to get there (or close to there on either side as long a you wind up in the shade of the 5 ball).
Thin off the 4, into the long rail, then aginst the 3.
Kick off the long rail softly up onto the 3.
Cut the 2 into the upper right corner with low left - draw 3 rails around, into the long rail under the 4, the down to the short rail for shape on the 3 into the bottom right (VERY aggressive).
Stun draw off the 2 straight down into the 3 looks like it would cross bank the 8.
If you can get near the 3, any kick on the 15 that doesn't make it figures to sell out, and a kick that makes the 9 probably has to include enough speed to get back under the 15 for the upper side.

Cornerman
05-03-2009, 12:40 PM
Situation -- Barbox 8ball
Race to 3 eight ball and the score is 2-2. I am Solids and its my shot.
What would you do?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD4kQmD4kQ uD4kQmD@

I'd love to be at a bar table in this situation and have to shoot the shot. Because it's a bar table, the shot is going to be easier to make, but there's no place to really hide.

I like this pattern:

http://CueTable.com/B/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJPO2Vc xu4kQmD3kIJh3kayO4kIGh4kbAm2kYro2kRip4uBnH@

But I think that subtle bar table nastiness prevents you from getting a good look at final position. You either flirt with running into the two balls in the center of the table, or you play for wrong-side shape on the 4-ball. I don't think firing the 2-ball and playing for short-side position on the 3-ball is even worth trying because, IMO it's fraught with bar table peril. I think that's one of those cases where you could seduce yourself into trying for position on the 3-ball, only to fall right on top of it when the cueball dies of the third cushion.

But, I could change my mind on the table.

Edit: I tried it. Couldn't get the pattern. I tried a couple other things. Nothing worked. LOL!!!

Fred

mrsk
05-03-2009, 04:09 PM
I thin the 4 ball and roll cue ball up toward the 3 ball

Tommy-D
05-03-2009, 05:27 PM
> I also like the 3-rail swing on the 2 ball. My other choice,if it's available,is the long cross-corner bank on the 2,and following the cue ball up in the neighborhood of the 5. If you make it,you SHOULD get out,if not,you still might park the cue ball behind something.

About all I get to play on are bar tables,and I'll take the shot on the 2 either as PJ describes or banking the 2,and get out more often then I'll miss and leave you a shot on the hanger,guaranteed. Tommy D.

TX Poolnut
05-03-2009, 05:34 PM
Safety. Stun the cue ball down the tangent line to the 3-ball.

<iframe src="http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJPO3VL LN3cNwN3caoJ4kQmD3kGVO2kHxQ1uCtA@" noresize="noresize" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" frameborder="no" width="600" height="400" ></iframe>

JDB
05-03-2009, 06:13 PM
Safety. Stun the cue ball down the tangent line to the 3-ball.

<iframe src="http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJPO3VL LN3cNwN3caoJ4kQmD3kGVO2kHxQ1uCtA@" noresize="noresize" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" frameborder="no" width="600" height="400" ></iframe>

That is the shot I was thinking of, as well. Except I was thinking to go slightly to the right of the 3 ball.

jongreve
05-03-2009, 08:09 PM
make the 2 w/ pocket speed. make the 4 down the rail, stop for the 5. make the 5 in corner, roll down for 3. make 3, come up table for 8.


I'm with this guy

frankncali
05-03-2009, 08:23 PM
Thanks for the thoughts...

It was BCA rules and I originally called the 2 in the far corner and was going to shoot it like Patrick's first option. I had to wait for the shot and while waiting I decided to play safe instead.

I figured that I could kick at the 3 and hit it leaving the cueball there. I had good faith in the odds of sticking the cueball where the three was.

I was however scared that my opponnet would be able to see the 15 and be forced to shoot at a shot for the win.

I kicked and left this situation below.... It hit the top of the three a bit and came across it. He then shot a very good shot on the 15 that I didnt think he could spin in. (he said he thought he missed it as it hit up the rail and then fell. Cueball kissed the 5 and then ran into the 8 leaving him a good shot.

In hindsight I think that taking my chance to win by cutting the 2 ball was the shot. I would have took the three rail shape route above just letting it go back and forth just do to confidence in making the ball and getting down table.
Oh well ,, next time I shoot it. I set it up afterwards and got out 2 out of three times.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD2QEnR2WI Og2WJlj3cNwN3cQyg1jECa4jYOE4kQmD2kaqO2kKCM2kEnQ2lE vR1lDMm3lLcH3lLTn3lLTu@

Patrick Johnson
05-03-2009, 08:33 PM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJPO2VY nd4kQmD3kIRe7kMip3kbHT3kHIl4kbnY2kasL2kUNx@

A safety is also possible, but harder IMO:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BJXO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJXO2VX cQ2VbFM2XYyd2Xawm2XNjD4kQmD3kHkc3kMBY@

pj
chgo

Are you wondering what the hell I was thinking with this response? Well, it's very simple: I was thinking it was 10-ball!

Never mind the 15 ball on the table and no 10 ball...

But if it was 10 Ball I like my answer. LOL.

pj
chgo

frankncali
05-03-2009, 08:37 PM
Are you wondering what the hell I was thinking with this response? Well, it's very simple: I was thinking it was 10-ball!

Never mind the 15 ball on the table and no 10 ball...

But if it was 10 Ball I like my answer. LOL.

pj
chgo



ROFL

I was wondering but I thought maybe you were trying to come up with something really off the wall (leaving him jackedup on the 8) or that you didnt see the 9ball.
LOL Now I know

memikey
05-04-2009, 01:03 AM
PJ......I don't mind admitting I was a bit scared to say what I thought due to your potentially acerbic wit :0

Thoughts like "how the jaysus could this guy have come up with so many technically sensible options on previous occasions if he is seriously putting forward this one as a safe?" crossed the mind.....went for a coffee and got involved in something else.

Funny as .... now though :)

Patrick Johnson
05-04-2009, 06:16 AM
PJ......I don't mind admitting I was a bit scared to say what I thought due to your potentially acerbic wit :0

It's working as planned, Smithers. Excellent.

pj
chgo

jay helfert
05-04-2009, 06:39 AM
Situation -- Barbox 8ball
Race to 3 eight ball and the score is 2-2. I am Solids and its my shot.
What would you do?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD4kQmD4kQ uD4kQmD@

Frank, you had another good option you never considered. You could shoot directly at the four, banking it toward the lower right corner pocket. You let the cue ball follow down table. It should come off the rail toward the three ball, but stop well short. Now you have all your balls in play and he has no good safety. He can try to cut the nine if he can see it. But he must turn the cue ball loose, with little chance of getting on the fifteen.

I don't know how to draw this shot, so maybe you can.

CreeDo
05-04-2009, 09:38 AM
Another vote for TX Poolnut's shot. That's what I came up with. I'm glad someone else had it diagrammed so I don't have to :)

Hard to screw up and guaranteed to leave a long thin cut on the 9 at best. But there's a decent chance of hooking him on that ball.

Jude Rosenstock
05-04-2009, 09:56 AM
Frank, you had another good option you never considered. You could shoot directly at the four, banking it toward the lower right corner pocket. You let the cue ball follow down table. It should come off the rail toward the three ball, but stop well short. Now you have all your balls in play and he has no good safety. He can try to cut the nine if he can see it. But he must turn the cue ball loose, with little chance of getting on the fifteen.

I don't know how to draw this shot, so maybe you can.

I could be wrong but the way I see this diagram, you don't have a clear shot on the 4.

jay helfert
05-04-2009, 10:13 AM
I could be wrong but the way I see this diagram, you don't have a clear shot on the 4.

You may be right Jude. It looks to me like you can see the whole ball. If not, I would probably play safe off the edge of the four and leave the cue ball on the end rail. Let him figure out a shot from there, that doesn't sell out the game.

I like to shoot a shot in that spot that doesn't take a big stroke (and a big risk) and a lot of cue ball movement. I believe that's what wins games. Larry Schwartz is the master of this type of play to be a winning Eight Ball player.

Jude Rosenstock
05-04-2009, 10:24 AM
Safety. Stun the cue ball down the tangent line to the 3-ball.

<iframe src="http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJPO3VL LN3cNwN3caoJ4kQmD3kGVO2kHxQ1uCtA@" noresize="noresize" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" frameborder="no" width="600" height="400" ></iframe>

This is a very awkward scenario but I do like this shot best. My concern is that there is a chance of leaving a return safety that will leave me worse off than I am now.

After this safety, your opponent is going to try and play a one rail kick at the 9ball hoping to leave the cueball in the lower left corner area. If the 2ball is now easier to pocket in the side, he's going to have to get a little more aggressive.

Trying to run out from here is challenging but worthy of consideration. You absolutely have to make sure you get a shot on that 4ball (preferrably straight). That's possible but the safety is definitely easier. The only problem with the safety is, it really doesn't guarantee victory though you do force your opponent to come up with a good shot.


The kick-safe on a barbox is a great idea. A lot of big table players forget how easy kick-safes can be on a barbox. Based on the layout of this diagram, I'm not very fond of the kick-safe because the 2/4 seem to block a portion of the appropriate path. Even for a barbox, this shot is also a bit difficult to judge. I think it shows excellent imagination to consider the kick but not great judgement to shoot it. TX Poolnut's safety is just far more predictable and just as effective.

dabarbr
05-04-2009, 10:25 AM
In this spot if you're kicking at the three the hit must be solid on the three and soft for it to work out. If you hit the rail first before hitting the three it's ball in hand. If you hit the outside of the three you sell out the 15. If you hit the three solid but too hard you sell out. We're talking about a lot of distance for the cue ball to travel and a lot can go wrong. Table drift being one of them.

Weighting all of of this I think I would select to shoot at the two and go three rails for the three. If I'm going down here it's going to be with a chance to win.

Jude Rosenstock
05-04-2009, 10:28 AM
You may be right Jude. It looks to me like you can see the whole ball. If not, I would probably play safe off the edge of the four and leave the cue ball on the end rail. Let him figure out a shot from there, that doesn't sell out the game.

I like to shoot a shot in that spot that doesn't take a big stroke (and a big risk) and a lot of cue ball movement. I believe that's what wins games. Larry Schwartz is the master of this type of play to be a winning Eight Ball player.

Actually, the location of that 4ball is critical since it could open up a few other safeties if you can see a portion/all of it.

jay helfert
05-04-2009, 10:33 AM
This is a very awkward scenario but I do like this shot best. My concern is that there is a chance of leaving a return safety that will leave me worse off than I am now.

After this safety, your opponent is going to try and play a one rail kick at the 9ball hoping to leave the cueball in the lower left corner area. If the 2ball is now easier to pocket in the side, he's going to have to get a little more aggressive.

Trying to run out from here is challenging but worthy of consideration. You absolutely have to make sure you get a shot on that 4ball (preferrably straight). That's possible but the safety is definitely easier. The only problem with the safety is, it really doesn't guarantee victory though you do force your opponent to come up with a good shot.


The kick-safe on a barbox is a great idea. A lot of big table players forget how easy kick-safes can be on a barbox. Based on the layout of this diagram, I'm not very fond of the kick-safe because the 2/4 seem to block a portion of the appropriate path. Even for a barbox, this shot is also a bit difficult to judge. I think it shows excellent imagination to consider the kick but not great judgement to shoot it. TX Poolnut's safety is just far more predictable and just as effective.


The kick-safe is a very important shot in One Pocket too (in similar situations). Sometimes amazes me when I see good players who don't even consider that option (or see it!). Jack Cooney was a master of this type of move. It won him games and never looked like he was doing anything. :wink:

Without diagramming it, here is the scenario. You're down table, your opponent has balls near his hole. It looks like there is no way out. Wait a second, I can go rail first off the side rail and tap a ball on the end rail near my opponent's pocket. I just got out of the trap and maybe put my opponent in a bad spot at the same time. HELLO!

Jude Rosenstock
05-04-2009, 10:40 AM
The kick-safe is a very important shot in One Pocket too (in similar situations). Sometimes amazes me when I see good players who don't even consider that option (or see it!). Jack Cooney was a master of this type of move. It won him games and never looked like he was doing anything. :wink:

Excellent point. I don't play 1pocket but knowing a little about the game and the accuracy one can have with this type of kick-safe, I would have to agree that it's a very strong move.

Cornerman
05-04-2009, 10:44 AM
Are you wondering what the hell I was thinking with this response? Well, it's very simple: I was thinking it was 10-ball!

Never mind the 15 ball on the table and no 10 ball...

But if it was 10 Ball I like my answer. LOL.

pj
chgo

This is hilarious Pat. Especially since my first inkling was the same shot knowing it was bar table 8-ball.

Fred

Patrick Johnson
05-04-2009, 02:24 PM
Are you wondering what the hell I was thinking with this response? Well, it's very simple: I was thinking it was 10-ball!

Never mind the 15 ball on the table and no 10 ball...

But if it was 10 Ball I like my answer. LOL.

pj
chgo

This is hilarious Pat. Especially since my first inkling was the same shot knowing it was bar table 8-ball.

Fred

My first shot was OK for either. It was my "safety" that must have raised some eyebrows. :)

pj
chgo

memikey
05-04-2009, 03:58 PM
Safety. Stun the cue ball down the tangent line to the 3-ball.

<iframe src="http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJPO3VL LN3cNwN3caoJ4kQmD3kGVO2kHxQ1uCtA@" noresize="noresize" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" frameborder="no" width="600" height="400" ></iframe>

I realise there's been a lot of support expressed for the result of this shot as drawn and I'm not saying it's a bad option but I'm not sure that it's possible to stun the cue ball at that angle at the pace necessary to have it reach/end up near the 3 ball on the path line drawn without iimparting so much pace on the 8 ball that it will hit the side rail and kiss the 2 again on rebounding.

Then again maybe that's a good thing! :)

dabarbr
05-04-2009, 04:31 PM
I realise there's been a lot of support expressed for the result of this shot as drawn and I'm not saying it's a bad option but I'm not sure that it's possible to stun the cue ball at that angle at the pace necessary to have it reach/end up near the 3 ball on the path line drawn without iimparting so much pace on the 8 ball that it will hit the side rail and kiss the 2 again on rebounding.

Then again maybe that's a good thing! :)

This an excellent option but I would only shoot it if the tangent line was natural to the three ball. If I would have to stun it over there then I would pass on it. In the diagram it doesn't look natural but needs to be stunned. Too many things to go bad with the stun. The distance between the two and the cue ball is a huge factor. First it requires more power thus it now becomes a feel and instinct shot. In a critical situation it's hard to rely on things to be hit that perfect. Sometimes we have no choice and have to go with that type of shot but here there are better options.

Firecracker
05-04-2009, 05:09 PM
Safety. Stun the cue ball down the tangent line to the 3-ball.

<iframe src="http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@3BJPO2CIOg2DYyd1EAjp3HNwN4IUOf1OECa4PQmD3VJPO3VL LN3cNwN3caoJ4kQmD3kGVO2kHxQ1uCtA@" noresize="noresize" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" frameborder="no" width="600" height="400" ></iframe>

I have two concerns with this shot, table speed and leaving the 8-ball more available then it was before. If you hit this too hard or pull too much to the right side of the 3-ball, you risk giving up the 15 ball. Too much to the right side and you leave the 9 ball. At the same time, if your speed is not good, then the 8 ball probably has more pocket options then previously. If your confident in your speed and accuracy on the leave, then it may be a good shot for you, but I would not feel comfortable shooting in a hill-hill match.

When I looked at the table, I saw the safety and the shot. I would most likely shoot the safe in this situation as it is a higher percentage shot that shooting the 2 down table and coming 3 rails for shape. The safe I saw was similar to Jay's. Skim the edge of the 4 ball and try to leave the cue ball on the rail near the 3. The reason I like this shot is it gives a little more flexibility to speed, if you hit it a little too hard, it should roll up behind the 15 and 5. Same as Jay said, getting the 4 off the rail offers more flexibility when you hopefully get to shoot again.

5ballcharlie
05-04-2009, 05:15 PM
I would fire the 2ball in the corner and draw 3 rails for position on the 3ball especially if I am playing on a bar box. If its a big table with tight pockets I thin hit the 2 ball and the cue ball should go 90degrees downtable and try and freeze him on the end rail and possibly snooker him behind the 5 ball.

i need somethin
05-05-2009, 12:10 AM
Fire it in!! ur on a Bar box