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6pocket-r-us
05-05-2009, 06:10 AM
This weekend saw the debut of the 6 Pocket League in San Antonio at Fast Eddie's Embassy and Babcock locations.

A demo game of 6 Pocket was conducted between the players meeting and the start of the Fast Eddie's Olhausen 9 Ball Tour to an audience of over 60 players.

Fast Eddie's was circulating coupons for a free membership in this new league based on the game of 6 Pocket - that are good through December 31, 2010!

More than twenty players tried this exciting new game on tables provided by Fast Eddie's at the Emabassy location and as a result came to the conclusion that:

It's Fast
It's Fun
It's Fair
It's Flexible.....

But it's not nearly as easy as it seems!

A New Game...A New Way to Score...
Changing Billiards One Rack at a Time!

www.6pocketleague.com

D C 6 Pocket
05-06-2009, 12:09 PM
It's spreading, you can now play in the 6 Pocket league in Birmingham AL, and Huntsville AL.
Soon it will be in Houston TX, Little Rock AR, the Florida panhandle, and in the Virginia area.:thumbup:

john schmidt
05-07-2009, 07:31 AM
this is a format i like. ive played the game. its how the pro tourneys should be.

eliminate lucking in balls ,hooking opponent on miss,no racking issues ,its you against the table and best of all at the end of 10 racks which makes up a set you know exactly what you shot and how good you are.

the casual players all the way to the best in the world should love this format i know i do.

go to 6pocket .com to see the game and what leagues are up and running to join.

ill join if they let me

smokeandapancak
05-07-2009, 08:14 AM
I like it .... a lot.... on paper.

I am going to give it a go the next time I am at the room.

What types of scores do the big guns pull out on this format...? 150's seem like they would be easy for the Schimdts of the world.... maybe not easy but you know what I mean.

Eruditass
05-07-2009, 09:04 AM
it will get rid of ~100% of the problems but 9 and 10 ball will still be the game I love to watch and play because of intentional safeties. Nothing can match the excitement for these battles.

I like the if you miss it's a push rules so you don't get left with an unintentional luck safety.

CreeDo
05-27-2009, 02:08 PM
I read the rules on that page, and probably this has already been asked, but I'm still unclear on something.

You just shoot anything anywhere until you miss or foul, then your opponent does the same, and whoever sank more balls wins? Since you can only get 15 in a single rack, that just means the first player to sink 8 balls wins (or get 8 points I should say) wins, ya? JS mentioned 10 racks, is it meant to be played in groups of 10?

Do you get credit for points earned in a rack even if you don't manage to get 8? Like if you're playing best out of 3 racks and I get 5 points during the first rack... do those 5 get added to a total score? Or is it just like.. I lost the first rack, the opponent has one game to his credit in a race to 3 games?

stuckart
05-27-2009, 02:41 PM
What do you think of a 6-pocket tournament?

Single Elimination: ($10/$20 entry??) (Pay out 15%)
20 players sign-up to play. Everyone gives it a go on multiple tables. Say 4 per table. After the 1st round the top 1/2 move on to the next round. The 10 players play again moving it to 5 players, then a 3rd round for the places.
$10 entry pays = $200, (1st/$100, 2nd/$60, 3rd/$40)
$20 entry pays = $400, (1st/$200, 2nd/$120, 3rd/$80)

Double Elimination:
20 players sign-up to play. Everyone gives it a go on multiple tables. Say 4 per table. After the 1st round the top 1/2 move on the bottom 1/2 moves to the losers bracket. Play continues on the winners side and the losers side. Bottom half of each losers side group is out, the top half is joined with the bottom of the winners side. Play down to 5 players on each side, then join back up with Winners side players having to be in the bottom twice. When 5 or less players remain that is the final round.
$10 entry pays = $200, (1st/$100, 2nd/$60, 3rd/$40)
$20 entry pays = $400, (1st/$200, 2nd/$120, 3rd/$80)

What do you think? It sounds like it could be a fun tournament. What issues, if any, do you see with this?

frankncali
05-27-2009, 03:38 PM
I guess I have been a "Six Pocket" fan for years without knowing it.

When I first started Junior Goff told me to play this game as a practice game. He had me playing it regularly trying to get my average down. He even recommended it to a group of us beginners as a practice/gambling game. Everyone put up a buck or two and then low person per round picked up the money. After a short period we could handicap it pretty easily and fairly.

I also still use it as a method to get back into gear and used to pocketing balls.
Fargo is another game I practice on occaision.

I like the aspect of Pro pool playing this as you can have a leader board and every shot counts. Each rack and shot is exciting. It also should be a fst moving game.
I have always thought that Pro events where the players play a race to 9 against the ghost would be exciting for fans as well as casual observers to watch. I have seen a view players match up doing this with the 10-12 ball ghost and it was very fun to watch.

Pushout
05-27-2009, 05:11 PM
I read the rules on that page, and probably this has already been asked, but I'm still unclear on something.

You just shoot anything anywhere until you miss or foul, then your opponent does the same, and whoever sank more balls wins? Since you can only get 15 in a single rack, that just means the first player to sink 8 balls wins (or get 8 points I should say) wins, ya? JS mentioned 10 racks, is it meant to be played in groups of 10?


Each player alternates, shooting 10 racks each. You shoot until you miss or foul, a foul gives you a penalty point for which you subtract one point for each penalty point. If you get four points and miss or foul, that's four points for that rack, barring penalty points. The next player begins with a full 15 ball rack. Scratching on the break gives you a penalty point and ball in hand behind the head string.
Does that help?
I'm still having trouble with the handicapping rules.

nathandumoulin
05-27-2009, 05:24 PM
I dont know if I'm just reading the rules wrong....but I dont get it. This game seems incredibly easy to me...so clearly I must be missing something. Please accept my apologies if that's the case.

Also, whats the deal with the "no safeties". I mean, if your turn is over when you miss a called shot, then what is to stop you from calling a fake shot, and then playing the cue ball safe?

Pushout
05-27-2009, 05:27 PM
I dont know if I'm just reading the rules wrong....but I dont get it. This game seems incredibly easy to me...so clearly I must be missing something. Please accept my apologies if that's the case.

Also, whats the deal with the "no safeties". I mean, if your turn is over when you miss a called shot, then what is to stop you from calling a fake shot, and then playing the cue ball safe?

You're playing the game, not an opponent. As in Fargo, there is no defense. Once your turn is over, the next player starts with a full rack.
How many 15s have you had in a game;)

nathandumoulin
05-27-2009, 05:30 PM
You're playing the game, not an opponent. As in Fargo, there is no defense. Once your turn is over, the next player starts with a full rack.

Thank you for that. That aspect of the game makes more sense now. However I'm still missing something here.

I mean, it's sort of like 14.1, but without the difficulty of having break the stack using the last ball of the rack. To me, thats what makes 14.1 hard. Without it, 15 random balls are just easy.

frankncali
05-27-2009, 05:41 PM
Thank you for that. That aspect of the game makes more sense now. However I'm still missing something here.

I mean, it's sort of like 14.1, but without the difficulty of having break the stack using the last ball of the rack. To me, thats what makes 14.1 hard. Without it, 15 random balls are just easy.

Easy is all in the eye of the person shooting....

For 90%+ of the pool players this game would not be easy... 15s would not be common.
Try it for 5 -10 racks and see what you get.

your thinking that 150 should be EASY so see what you get. Remember if you make a mistake (as we all do) and miss then you are done. So if your breaking a ball out on your 4th ball in one game and miss then your max goes down to 129. Make two mistakes early in games and you cant score nearly where you think you should.

Fargo was an eyeopener for myself and my buddy. It great practice and puts pressure on every shot.

Pushout
05-27-2009, 05:47 PM
Thank you for that. That aspect of the game makes more sense now. However I'm still missing something here.

I mean, it's sort of like 14.1, but without the difficulty of having break the stack using the last ball of the rack. To me, thats what makes 14.1 hard. Without it, 15 random balls are just easy.

The open break and the multiple choices of shots after the break can be confusing sometimes, even for good players. Also, the fact that there is no opponent to play safe on, total offense. Don't forget that if you have no shot after the break, you can give yourself a penalty point and take ball in hand behind the string. My first try I had two 15s, two 14s, and two 1s:( and whatever.
I've seen veteran 8 ball players who could not run a rack in Fargo with no rotation mode.

nathandumoulin
05-27-2009, 06:13 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I'll be sure to give this a try :)

stuckart
05-27-2009, 07:06 PM
I gave it a try and it went pretty quickly.

I shot: 13, 15, 15, 15, 15, 12, 10, 15, 15, 11 = 136

Scratched on both the 10 and 11 racks being stupid and trying to get perfect when I had easy shape.

I also have no idea how you establish handicap's for people. I can see after an entire league has run it's course you have an average, but not sure how that is applied.

When you play in league does just one person play all 10 racks in a row? Or does it alternate?

In my tournament example above, I think I would say each round each player gets 5 racks.

D C 6 Pocket
05-27-2009, 07:59 PM
I gave it a try and it went pretty quickly.

I shot: 13, 15, 15, 15, 15, 12, 10, 15, 15, 11 = 136

Scratched on both the 10 and 11 racks being stupid and trying to get perfect when I had easy shape.

I also have no idea how you establish handicap's for people. I can see after an entire league has run it's course you have an average, but not sure how that is applied.

When you play in league does just one person play all 10 racks in a row? Or does it alternate?

In my tournament example above, I think I would say each round each player gets 5 racks.

You always alternate turns. In league play or tournaments each player takes turn 1 and then each player takes turn 2 and you do this for 10 turns.
We can establish a handicap with 5 recorded scores but it will be better quantified the more scores that are recorded.

D C 6 Pocket
05-27-2009, 08:16 PM
9 different players played a total of 13 games of 6 Pocket today and out of those players, 7 are APA players ranging from a 2 up to a 7 and an amazing fact came to the surface............how many 15's do you think were scored? :angry: 1 :grin: Mine!!

Johnnyt
05-27-2009, 10:43 PM
9 different players played a total of 13 games of 6 Pocket today and out of those players, 7 are APA players ranging from a 2 up to a 7 and an amazing fact came to the surface............how many 15's do you think were scored? :angry: 1 :grin: Mine!!

I need to re read the rules again. I'm not that good a player and I get a lot of 15's. I play mine on a Valley 7' with tight 4 1/2" pockets. I wouldn't think that would make it that much easier. Johnnyt

Richardson
05-27-2009, 10:50 PM
I play mine on a Valley 7' with tight 4 1/2" pockets.

my stock valley has 4 1/2 pockets, how is that tight ?

im gonna get them shimmed down to just over 4"

Johnnyt
05-27-2009, 11:33 PM
my stock valley has 4 1/2 pockets, how is that tight ?

im gonna get them shimmed down to just over 4"

I mean 2 balls won't go in. There not 4 7/16" but they are a hair tighter than 4 1/2". I have no idea why. I'm going to take my rails off and have them shimmed. The facings are too hard anyway. If I hit a ball even a little hard and it hits the facing square it won't go. Sounds like hitting a tile floor...esp. the side pockets. Johnnyt

D C 6 Pocket
05-28-2009, 04:15 AM
I need to re read the rules again. I'm not that good a player and I get a lot of 15's. I play mine on a Valley 7' with tight 4 1/2" pockets. I wouldn't think that would make it that much easier. Johnnyt

I believe what this means is.......if you're able to average a 100 :thumbup: or better, your skill level is going to be in the upper 10% of the players in the country. No statistics to prove that yet but this is my best guess opinion.

stuckart
05-28-2009, 09:04 AM
I believe what this means is.......if you're able to average a 100 :thumbup: or better, your skill level is going to be in the upper 10% of the players in the country. No statistics to prove that yet but this is my best guess opinion.

I just gave it another go with 5 racks and put together 5 - 15's in a row without any trouble. I'm definitely not in the top 10% of all players in the country. Maybe top 10% of all people in the country, but that's a different story.

I'm shooting on a custom 8' olhausen with 4-1/2" pockets.

6pocket-r-us
05-28-2009, 10:45 AM
As one of the individuals who is out in pool halls virtually every night, I can tell you that almost to a man (and woman) the initial response - once the basic rules of play have been communicated - is This is too easy!

So our pattern then is to ask.....So, what do you think you'll shoot in a 10 rack game?

Very few players say less that 50 and many say 80 plus.....

Then we get them to try it and....they can;t believe they end up with sub-40 and sub 30 scores.

The epitome of this was a claim "I'll get 150 every time" My response that our staff professional John Schmidt doesn't even do that was met with a scoff.

After I was able to convince this person to play, it went like this....

Turn/Rack 1 - Broke and missed first shot....0
Turn/Rack 2 - Broke with a scratch, so 1 penalty point, and then missed first shot....-1
Turn/Rack 3 - Broke and missed firts shot....0

So after 3 racks with a score of -1 the gent begged off that he'd had too much to drink and shouldn't be playing but he'd go get his buddy to come over and show me how easy it was to run rack after rack...that went like this...

Turn/Rack 1 - Broke and missed first shot....0
Turn/Rack 2 - Too embarrassed to try it.

Today the 1st gent in question is one of the bigest proponents/advocates of 6 Pocket and the 6 Pocket League in SA....and is playing dailiy with an occassional 100+ but mostly socres in the 80s and 90s.

Much like golf, this format becomes addictive in the sense that everyday you're wanting to get back out there and do 1 or 2 strokes (pocketed balls) better! To reach a goal of say breaking 40...to break 50....and on an on.

D C 6 Pocket
05-28-2009, 12:03 PM
I just gave it another go with 5 racks and put together 5 - 15's in a row without any trouble. I'm definitely not in the top 10% of all players in the country. Maybe top 10% of all people in the country, but that's a different story.

I'm shooting on a custom 8' olhausen with 4-1/2" pockets.

You are 100% right.....and I am 100% wrong, I should have said PEOPLE, not PLAYERS. John Schmidt thinks PLAYERS will average around the high 130's in tournament conditions.

Sorry:o

Johnnyt
05-28-2009, 12:34 PM
Well my first two games I posted didn't count. I was forgeting to add in the -points for taking BIH in back of the line. But I trird it again and did about the same.
15 with 1 foul
13.........1
11
6
15........1
9..........1
15
15
7
11........1
*********
117 total 10 racks -5 for fouls=*112*

I need to go and play this on a Diomond. Maybe I just know my table too good and the pockets are a lot more forgiving if you shoot a bit hard.

I think 14.1 players have a big advantage in 6 pocket. Johnnyt

nathandumoulin
05-28-2009, 12:45 PM
Someone mentioned a push-out rule if you accidentally get safetied on the break (which makes perfect sense to me....otherwise one bad roll off the break and your whole set would be screwed).

Another person mention losing a point for taking BIH...and yet I see neither of these options posted in the rules on 6pocketleague.com.

Where can I find the proper rules for this game?

stuckart
05-28-2009, 01:16 PM
I finished off that set from earlier and finished with a 144. I got glued to a ball and had to spin a ball on the 8th rack in only getting a 9. Other than that I got a 15 in 9 racks out of 10.

I do like to play 14.1 though, so most of the racks were ultra easy with a full break of the balls.

Now I'm on the quest to get a 150 after dinner.

Pushout
05-28-2009, 02:01 PM
Someone mentioned a push-out rule if you accidentally get safetied on the break (which makes perfect sense to me....otherwise one bad roll off the break and your whole set would be screwed).

Another person mention losing a point for taking BIH...and yet I see neither of these options posted in the rules on 6pocketleague.com.

Where can I find the proper rules for this game?

There is no pushout rule. Take one penalty point and ball in hand behind the headstring. You would not be getting ball in hand without a penalty point. If you are snookered on the break, you get "relief", to quote John Schmidt, I believe, by taking ball in hand behind the head string and taking one penalty point.

http://6pocketleague.com/01_buzz.asp

nathandumoulin
05-28-2009, 02:05 PM
There is no pushout rule. Take one penalty point and ball in hand behind the headstring. You would not be getting ball in hand without a penalty point.

Does this rule apply only after the break, or at any time during the rack?

Sorry for asking, but from what I can see, the rules on the site say nothing about BIH or penalty points.

Pushout
05-28-2009, 02:09 PM
Does this rule apply only after the break, or at any time during the rack?

Sorry for asking, but from what I can see, the rules on the site say nothing about BIH or penalty points.

You have to look for the pdf documents for all the rules, etc. They are alogether, click on the Rules tab and they are at the bottom of the page. Applies only after the break.

Edit: Page 5 of the pdf Rules file.

nathandumoulin
05-28-2009, 02:13 PM
You have to look for the pdf documents for all the rules, etc. They are alogether, click on the Rules tab and they are at the bottom of the page. Applies only after the break.

Edit: Page 5 of the pdf Rules file.

Lmao.

Wow, I'm completely oblivious. Its in plain sight, and yet for some reason I just assumed those icons at the bottom of the page were for something else. Thanks for kicking some sense into me. :thumbup:

D C 6 Pocket
05-28-2009, 02:17 PM
Does this rule apply only after the break, or at any time during the rack?

Sorry for asking, but from what I can see, the rules on the site say nothing about BIH or penalty points.

I will explain for you, Before you take your first called shot immediately after the break you, at the players option, can claim an unplayable shot and take relief by placing the cueball behind the line and shooting your first object ball in front of the line. When you do take this option, you are charged 1 penalty point that you subtract from that rack score total. You can only take relief before your 1st shot after the break and no other time during the rack.

Hope this helps:)

Dick

Richardson
05-28-2009, 05:14 PM
I did 5 racks on a bar table and got 5 - 15's. I am nowhere near a top player even in DSM, IA.

Im guessing this needs to be played on 9' tables to be competitive. 9' Diamonds would be real tough for most people including me.

D C 6 Pocket
05-29-2009, 07:17 AM
I finished off that set from earlier and finished with a 144. I got glued to a ball and had to spin a ball on the 8th rack in only getting a 9. Other than that I got a 15 in 9 racks out of 10.

I do like to play 14.1 though, so most of the racks were ultra easy with a full break of the balls.

Now I'm on the quest to get a 150 after dinner.


Do you work for or own the Arizona Pool Scene?:confused:

CreeDo
05-29-2009, 01:57 PM
I'll be giving it a try with my buddy soon. I like the idea, it's pretty simple. The only downside is that it sounds like it isn't that 'competitive'. You play for a high score, so there's not really comebacks or chances to really put the screws on an opponent. You just both happen to play (not even at the same table necessarily) and see who's better at clearing open balls. It's almost like practice. If someone gets 150 then you don't need to play the instant you missed a ball :) But of course that's gonna be pretty rare.

Not bashing it though, maybe it's really fun. I'll find out tonight or tomorrow.

The rules page on the website doesn't spell out a lot of important stuff, but the faq page covers everything. They should fix this on the site.
http://6pocketleague.com/01d_FAQs.asp?sfaq=mems&pg=2&sn=3&sb=3

It sounds like the rules are pretty well set. If the 'relief' rule isn't set in stone yet, it should be. It makes a lot of sense.

Another idea I think would be worth exploring: Adding a little bonus (say, 3 points) for a break and runout. You must get something on the break and then all the rest of the balls. Maybe that would allow a comeback, in a sense, from an impossible situation... a guy gets 2 starts but if he runs out the rest of the racks he can still get 24 bonus points and recover with an almost perfect score.

stuckart
05-29-2009, 02:12 PM
Do you work for or own the Arizona Pool Scene?:confused:

I own and run the website! It has been going strong for 4+ years now and has tons of information for all the players and rooms in the state.

I also am a League Operator and a Tournament Director. We also do some streaming of live events from various rooms around the state.

D C 6 Pocket
05-29-2009, 03:14 PM
I own and run the website! It has been going strong for 4+ years now and has tons of information for all the players and rooms in the state.

I also am a League Operator and a Tournament Director. We also do some streaming of live events from various rooms around the state.

We are comming to Arizona soon and would like to get to know you, would you please email me your contact information, dclark@6pocket.com

I'm sure we can do some business together........
Thanks

D C 6 Pocket
05-29-2009, 03:19 PM
I'll be giving it a try with my buddy soon. I like the idea, it's pretty simple.
Not bashing it though, maybe it's really fun. I'll find out tonight or tomorrow.

It sounds like the rules are pretty well set. If the 'relief' rule isn't set in stone yet, it should be. It makes a lot of sense.

Another idea I think would be worth exploring: Adding a little bonus (say, 3 points) for a break and runout. You must get something on the break and then all the rest of the balls. Maybe that would allow a comeback, in a sense, from an impossible situation... a guy gets 2 starts but if he runs out the rest of the racks he can still get 24 bonus points and recover with an almost perfect score.

The relief rule is set in stone, and we will talk about your idea of bonus points for running a rack to help make up for a mistake.......Thanks

Pushout
05-29-2009, 05:20 PM
The rules page on the website doesn't spell out a lot of important stuff, but the faq page covers everything. They should fix this on the site.
http://6pocketleague.com/01d_FAQs.asp?sfaq=mems&pg=2&sn=3&sb=3

It sounds like the rules are pretty well set.

My only beef, and I've mentioned this to Dick, is that the handicapping rules need to be made simpler to understand. At the moment, as I read it, you need a scientific calculator to do the calculation. I'm not clear on the numbers for the different size tables, either.

6pocket-r-us
05-30-2009, 10:16 AM
The process and alogrithm by which Level Play (our trade marked name for the process and resulting numbers) handicaps are produced is part of the overall provisional patent on 6 Pocket.

It is a pretty complicated process and has to be in order to produce handicap numbers that are both consistent across the skill levels and equitable for all players, while not giving unfair advantage to the poorer player. - For purposes of this discussion "players" are anyone playing 6 Pocket regardless of skill level.

What it really comes down to is that we are taking a sub-set (top 10 of the last 20) of the recent score data accumulated for a player and then using it to develop a "trend" for that player much like the golf algorithm does. The Level Play number produced then is a "number" which gets added to the players "natural score" in order to produce a "net score" that can then be used to compare that player against the other "net scores" in a competition to determine "ranking"

This number is tracked for the player through our web-site AND we track it for each of the 3 basic table sizes...7, 8, and 9 foot based on actuall score data for those basic sizes submitted to the Level Play Handicapping System.

It is important to note that the only scores that are "eligible" for use in the handicapping system are those which result from a regular competion, and/or handicapping session, conducted at a 6 Pocket League Sanctioned Facility.

Anyway, if you want to try it at home, you can take the following approach:

Make a list of all of your game scores - using 10 turn games. If you have more than 10, use only the top 10. if you have more than 20, use only the top 10 of the last 20.

Identify and "set aside" your highest game socre.

Take the remaining scores and calculate an unweighted average (total the scores and divide by the number of scores). Remember to not use your highest score in this calculation.

Subtract the average score from this calculation from the highest score you set aside earlier and record the remainder.

Now divide the remainder by 2 and record the quotient.

Now add this quotient back to the average produced above.

Now subtract this total from the appropriate tabel size "par" where said pars are
7 foot = 150
8 foot = 146
9 foot = 142

Now divide the remainder from the subtraction above by 10, and the quotient is your level play number for that tabel size.

My current Level Play number of record for an 8 footer is 11.6. Yes this means I get to add 116 balls to my natural score on a 10 turn game at an 8 foot table....

If you think that's sad, what's worse is I STILL CAN'T BREAK A NET 146!!!!

The bottom line is that we think this sytem produces a number that represents what you are "capable" of on you best day, not "likely" to do on an average day....now to win a handicaped competion you must play up to your best ability.

S

CreeDo
05-30-2009, 10:43 PM
I got to try it today with my buddy. We decided to do 5 racks to keep things quick. I'm supposed to beat him and we figured no need to drag it out.

15 k that was easy, never out of line
15 1 minor out-of-line recovery, at this point I think I'm a lock for 75
5! I got too straight, forced to move the CB with draw... and while stroking the shot I moved a ball that would have altered the path of the CB if it hadn't moved >_<
14 Hosed after the break and forced to use the relief option
5!@#!@ Talking instead of focusing on the game.

So, 54 instead of 75.

I enjoyed it, I have usually only 1 or 2 problems to solve after a strong break and a world of options for dealing with them, so I feel like I can run out every time. However I found that once those issues are dealt with (or if there are no issues), it's a little too easy, and I can feel my opponent getting bored waiting for his chance. Not that I let that affect my pace or shooting =)

My buddy didn't like it as much. He gave it a 2.5 on a scale of one to fun, haha.

My overall impression: I think for B- and below this can be fun. When you get to strong B or above, it's maybe a little too easy for the shooter. Also it can be bad if 2 guys are on 1 table. Waiting through a full rack of 15 balls is a lot of sitting. Maybe in a competitive league atmosphere with proper handicapping I'd find it more fun but it felt to me a lot like half-focused practice.

Pushout
05-31-2009, 05:01 AM
I've seen several people say they played only five racks. Why play five when the game is ten? Five will reveal less mistakes:D Ten will give a more realistic picture.

D C 6 Pocket
05-31-2009, 07:02 AM
I got to try it today with my buddy. We decided to do 5 racks to keep things quick. I'm supposed to beat him and we figured no need to drag it out.

15 k that was easy, never out of line
15 1 minor out-of-line recovery, at this point I think I'm a lock for 75
5! I got too straight, forced to move the CB with draw... and while stroking the shot I moved a ball that would have altered the path of the CB if it hadn't moved >_<
14 Hosed after the break and forced to use the relief option
5!@#!@ Talking instead of focusing on the game.

So, 54 instead of 75.

I enjoyed it, I have usually only 1 or 2 problems to solve after a strong break and a world of options for dealing with them, so I feel like I can run out every time. However I found that once those issues are dealt with (or if there are no issues), it's a little too easy, and I can feel my opponent getting bored waiting for his chance. Not that I let that affect my pace or shooting =)

My buddy didn't like it as much. He gave it a 2.5 on a scale of one to fun, haha.

My overall impression: I think for B- and below this can be fun. When you get to strong B or above, it's maybe a little too easy for the shooter. Also it can be bad if 2 guys are on 1 table. Waiting through a full rack of 15 balls is a lot of sitting. Maybe in a competitive league atmosphere with proper handicapping I'd find it more fun but it felt to me a lot like half-focused practice.

I have a question.........when you get strong B and above players your obversation is it might be a little to easy, so I would like to ask why the skill level matters if 2 B players played a game and the winner won a 6 Pocket match 143 to 142.

IMHO, winning is winning weather it be Golf, Bowling 10 Ball, 6 Pocket or anyother game regardless of your skill level.

Imagine this difference in pressure:eek:, your playing on the last day in a competition and you know in order to win the tournament on a tough 9' table before you make your first break......you have to shoot a 143 to win.

That might not be to easy even for John Schmidt.

CreeDo
05-31-2009, 08:35 AM
I have a question.........when you get strong B and above players your obversation is it might be a little to easy, so I would like to ask why the skill level matters if 2 B players played a game and the winner won a 6 Pocket match 143 to 142.

IMHO, winning is winning weather it be Golf, Bowling 10 Ball, 6 Pocket or anyother game regardless of your skill level.

Imagine this difference in pressure:eek:, your playing on the last day in a competition and you know in order to win the tournament on a tough 9' table before you make your first break......you have to shoot a 143 to win.

That might not be to easy even for John Schmidt.

Well, everything gets tougher in a tournament setting, that's for sure. With my opponent being a speed below me (and no handicap in place) I didn't feel any pressure, which translated to just clearing a table as if I'm practicing.

I guess when I complain about the game feeling "too easy" then I mean it strictly from a "are we having fun yet?" point of view. There's not much thinking and no safeties, kicks, jumps, etc. It almost feels like straight pool but the hard break means there's little cluster-breaking and moving through heavy traffic. And I don't have to worry about leaving a key ball or break ball.

Without restrictions on what you can shoot, there's rarely long shots or tricky cue ball movement either. You don't have to plan as much as you do in 8 ball where half the balls are unshootable and you can't afford to get stuck behind one.

Maybe it's just me and other B players have a little more fun. I'll give it another shot if my buddy is willing. He put up a donut rack and a 3 so I think that might have affected his point of view. I didn't shoot as well as I wanted either, I'd like to get that 75.

D C 6 Pocket
05-31-2009, 08:57 AM
Well, everything gets tougher in a tournament setting, that's for sure. With my opponent being a speed below me (and no handicap in place) I didn't feel any pressure, which translated to just clearing a table as if I'm practicing.

I guess when I complain about the game feeling "too easy" then I mean it strictly from a "are we having fun yet?" point of view. There's not much thinking and no safeties, kicks, jumps, etc. It almost feels like straight pool but the hard break means there's little cluster-breaking and moving through heavy traffic. And I don't have to worry about leaving a key ball or break ball.

Without restrictions on what you can shoot, there's rarely long shots or tricky cue ball movement either. You don't have to plan as much as you do in 8 ball where half the balls are unshootable and you can't afford to get stuck behind one.

Maybe it's just me and other B players have a little more fun. I'll give it another shot if my buddy is willing. He put up a donut rack and a 3 so I think that might have affected his point of view. I didn't shoot as well as I wanted either, I'd like to get that 75.

Try 10 racks and shoot for a perfect game.:) I understand what your saying and yes it is more fun to compete with handicaps. Sam goodrich our director has a proven handicap and he played Brandon Shuff with this outcome.......Brandon shot a 136 straight up (scratch) and Sam shot a 135 with his handicap. Sam averages making 2.3 balls per rack.

This is a great example of how it will work in our league play and for those that have a proven handicap and want to match up.

Pushout
05-31-2009, 09:44 AM
I think that convincing someone who plays mostly 8 ball that this game will improve their overall game may be somewhat difficult. A lot of people will consider the game too easy, then be embarrassed when they initially shoot a low score, and not want to participate any more. I've seen this in relation to Fargo. It does take a different mind set and I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that John Schmidt would agree with this. It's the responsibility of the better players to encourage participation, with the idea of overall improvement. Trying something new and different can be hard at first but the outcome can be worth the effort.

Edit: Thanks, Dick, for the post concerning handicaps. I haven't had a chance to go over it yet, but expect to this afternoon.

geno368
05-31-2009, 10:08 AM
I have uploaded a couple of 6Pocket videos which explains some of the rules, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adshac8
please excuse the bad acting...I'm just a novice screen star...lol

Pushout
05-31-2009, 11:18 AM
I have uploaded a couple of 6Pocket videos which explains some of the rules, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adshac8
please excuse the bad acting...I'm just a novice screen star...lol

"The URL contained a malformed video ID. "

D C 6 Pocket
05-31-2009, 11:30 AM
"The URL contained a malformed video ID. "

Here is the correct address.....

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adshac8k22I

Pushout
05-31-2009, 01:15 PM
Here is the correct address.....

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adshac8k22I

Nope, ya did something wrong, I can't even get to youtube.

nathandumoulin
05-31-2009, 01:17 PM
Nope, ya did something wrong, I can't even get to youtube.

The link works just fine when you take away the URL tag at the start. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adshac8k22I

Pushout
05-31-2009, 03:26 PM
The link works just fine when you take away the URL tag at the start. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adshac8k22I

Duh!!:p Thanks.

southernhustler
06-01-2009, 03:03 PM
We are starting 6 Pocket League in Birmingham, Alabama tonite. We hope for a great turn out. This is a great game to play!!!!!!!!

6pocket-r-us
06-01-2009, 05:43 PM
You will recall this is the way the opening post begins.....

I just wanted to thank everyone participating in this thread for their comments and enthusiasm...and I agree that we need all the help we can get from the better players encouraging those of us who are not so good!

I had the opportunity last night to oversee a Level Play handicapping session....(where you are playing to record a score for the great Level Play handicapping computer in the sky) .... and I think both of the players were probably Bs (even though I'm not sure what B really means) Anyway...both players were in general scoring 10+ per rack and I gotta tell you....they were COMPETING...but in a far friendlier way than I've seen in 8 and 9 ball matches where defense is a prime "strategy".

And these guys were fast! No hesitation, break, clear the trouble, and on to the gravy...and both seemed to be cheering the other on (with friendly sharking to boot), so I dare say their's was in no way a boring experience!

The problem seemed to be that as they got the table more and more clear, their shot opportunites were harder and harder and then they would get a little out of shape and miss on 12 or 13....or in one case, a simple lack of concentration..or maybe looking to far ahead... resulted in a jawed shot and a low rack score....

In pro/semi-pro tournament competition, we will run a 20 second shot clock with only one extension per turn!

Back when we first debuted, there was a guy at the facility that I just couldn't seem to get through to....and on the final day he came up to me and said...."I know what's wrong with your game.....it'll take too long to play."

I said that it is true that the better you are the longer it takes, but it still plays in less time than a typical 8 or 9 ball match, especially with the shot clock.

While he agreed with that, he was concerned that for the "league" players, it would begin to drag on and on.....

I left him with that thought and went and rounded up 2 other players....(both significantly better than me, but representative of league "hotshots"). I then set the stop watch on my iPhone and the THREE OF US PLAYED A TEN RACK GAME AT THE SAME TABLE. When the final scores were tallied (my usual 23, a 50 plus and a 60 plus), I walked over to the gent and showed him the stop watch....it read 59 minutes 1 second!

He laughed out loud and said "I'm in!" and is now promoting 6 Pocket to good and not so good players alike!

It's Fun,
It's Fast,
It's Fair,
It's Felixble.....

But it's not as easy as it seems!

6pocket-r-us
06-01-2009, 06:03 PM
As an update on the launch at Fast Eddies, we now have over 80 players registered and doing handicapping sessions...in order to get ready for an inaugural tournament to be held on June 27th.

The interesting part (besides the fact that the purse with added is likely to approach $3K!!!! - heck I've seen some "mini tour" events that don't pay that well) is that individuals will be competitng in multiple facilities...simultaneously!

That's right, the will be 64 players in one location, and the balance (we are shooting for another 64) will play at another FE facility in San Antonio...They'll all start at the same time and the scores will be "rolled up" for both facilities and ranking assignments made as a result of the roll up. Imagine it....the winner may be in one facility and the second place player in another.

Now just look into the future as this thing gets rolling!!!

Take a multiple location company like Fast Eddies...with 20 some odd stores. They could organize/hold "corporate" tournaments where people are playing in all of the locations simultaneously. Say you got 50 players in each store, they paid a $40.00 entry fee, and you had 20 stores participating....that's $40K in purse money!

Take it a step further and it's dozens of pool halls and bars in a large metro area...the numbers just start to explode...

Take it state wide...WTF

Make it region wide...OMG

I can guarantee you that league players have never seen these kind of purse totals and they will be flocking to the local pool halls and bars to try and get in on the cash...

And with the Level Play handicppinsg system, they have just as good a chance as anyone else!

6 Pocket is......The Future Of Billiards

md5key
06-09-2009, 11:54 AM
I played this weekend. I scored a 68 with one perfect 15 and one rack where I got 0. Unfortunately I didn't know about the "relief" rule. The game is nice, fun, and really didn't take too long. I really like the aspect where it is you vs the table. At my level there are a lot of missed shots in games like 9 ball, and it's incredibly frustrating when an opponent misses and accidently gets a solid safety out of it.

I also play a decent amount of straight pool and this seems to fit right in with that, except it's a lot easier. I'm going to introduce it to a couple buddies at the hall and see what they think.

Eruditass
06-09-2009, 11:58 AM
i will always miss safety play, but 9ball sucks without grady's rules. this reminds me of bowliards.

Johnnyt
06-09-2009, 12:25 PM
Are there any sanctioned poolrooms or bars in the Tampa area yet? Johnnyt

nathandumoulin
06-09-2009, 12:38 PM
6 Pocket is......The Future Of Billiards

This statement really doesn't sit well with me.

I mean, sure it seems to be great for certain types of league players, but considering that the game is just too easy for AA or higher level players, it's not realistic.

Don't get me wrong, I wish you the best of luck with it.....but a few successful weeks/months of test leagues doesn't justify such a statement.

stuckart
06-09-2009, 02:09 PM
This statement really doesn't sit well with me.

I mean, sure it seems to be great for certain types of league players, but considering that the game is just too easy for AA or higher level players, it's not realistic.

Don't get me wrong, I wish you the best of luck with it.....but a few successful weeks/months of test leagues doesn't justify such a statement.

How about "The Future of APA"?

This is definitely more geared towards the highest volume of players. The B, C and D ranked groups.

I do like the idea of running a nation wide tournament. Kind of like Golden Tee 2009 Live. Best case scenario is 2 or 3 locations with Live Streaming. That way numbers and players can watch and compete across the country.

Get with BigTruck to Stream a tourney in Texas, and I'll stream one in Phoenix the same and put the players together.

ps: sorry I didn't get back to you yet Dick, crazy busy during the week lately.

Johnnyt
06-09-2009, 05:30 PM
1) 12-1 penalty point
2)10-0
3)11-1
4)11-0
5)7-0
6)9-0
715-1
8)13-0
9)9-0
10)11-1
*********
108 -4=104

I'm going backwards. Cool game though. Johnnyt

md5key
06-09-2009, 06:34 PM
I did a little better - 73.. :(

D C 6 Pocket
06-09-2009, 07:53 PM
Are there any sanctioned poolrooms or bars in the Tampa area yet? Johnnyt

Sorry Johnny, not yet. I will do my best to get a place sanctioned for you. I'm getting so busy trying to stay up with the growth that just haven't had time to go to central FL. If you know a room we can contact I would be glad to talk to them by phone to get started.

I have family in New Port Richey and Spring Hill........would like to see them!

Thanks........Dick

Bigtruck
06-09-2009, 08:03 PM
I just gave it another go with 5 racks and put together 5 - 15's in a row without any trouble. I'm definitely not in the top 10% of all players in the country. Maybe top 10% of all people in the country, but that's a different story.

I'm shooting on a custom 8' olhausen with 4-1/2" pockets.

Jerry,

I hate to tell you but those pockets are 5" easy!! You measure from point to point. Like this. These are 4.5" pockets. ;)

Ray

D C 6 Pocket
06-10-2009, 04:23 AM
Jerry,

I hate to tell you but those pockets are 5" easy!! You measure from point to point. Like this. These are 4.5" pockets. ;)

Ray

:smile:Get with BigTruck to Stream a tourney in Texas, and I'll stream one in Phoenix the same and put the players together.:smile: Jerry

How about it BigTruck, you think we could pull this off?

6pocket-r-us
06-10-2009, 03:20 PM
Are there any sanctioned poolrooms or bars in the Tampa area yet? Johnnyt


We're just getting started through John in Florida panhandle / Pensacola and Mobile.

If you have a pool hall in mind in Tampa, I'd be glad to contact them and get them on board

Sam

Johnnyt
06-10-2009, 04:19 PM
We're just getting started through John in Florida panhandle / Pensacola and Mobile.

If you have a pool hall in mind in Tampa, I'd be glad to contact them and get them on board

Sam

I really don't know the owners well in anything close to me anymore...but give me a few days I'll make friends with one and make him an offer he can't refuse:eek:. Johnnyt

TWOFORPOOL
06-10-2009, 10:57 PM
6 Pocket seems to be the same game as Equal Offense that was created years ago. Equal Offense never did get off the ground. How is 6 Pocket different from the old game of Equal Offense?

D C 6 Pocket
06-11-2009, 06:22 AM
6 Pocket seems to be the same game as Equal Offense that was created years ago. Equal Offense never did get off the ground. How is 6 Pocket different from the old game of Equal Offense?

There are several differences between the 2 games. If you will go to the you tube link below it will explain 6 Pocket or go to the web site please. One of the major differences is, we are building an entire company around 6 Pocket with 5 different business enities.

1. League
2. Amateur Association
3. Professional Association
4. Professional Tour
5. Recreational membership

Hope this helps.:smile:

6pocket-r-us
06-12-2009, 12:52 PM
6 Pocket seems to be the same game as Equal Offense that was created years ago. Equal Offense never did get off the ground. How is 6 Pocket different from the old game of Equal Offense?

There are also some significant differences in the game itself.

Like you somehow get 20 points in a 15 ball rack instead of 15....the BCA rule book doesn't specify how.

In EO, on the break you are not penalized for fouls....in 6 Pocket you are....

In EO if you pocket balls without a foul on the break, they get spotted, ...in 6 Pocket they stay down and count toward your rack score....a

In EO you always take ball in hand behind the headstring after the break....it's unclear from the rule book whether or not you have to shoot "outside" the kitchen, but I think, based on the BCA defintion of "ball in hand", and since the only qualifier, is "behind the headstring", you are allowed to shoot balls in the kitchen....in 6 Pocket you play from where the cue ball comes to rest, except in the case of a foul and break where you can place the cue ball behind the headsring but have to shoot outside the kitchen....

The no penalty issue is a pretty big difference as is the inside/outside kitchen issue

Also of note is the fact there is no "defined" handicap system for EO and in 6 Pocket, we have Level Play.

TWOFORPOOL
06-12-2009, 02:07 PM
There are also some significant differences in the game itself.

Like you somehow get 20 points in a 15 ball rack instead of 15....the BCA rule book doesn't specify how.

In EO, on the break you are not penalized for fouls....in 6 Pocket you are....

In EO if you pocket balls without a foul on the break, they get spotted, ...in 6 Pocket they stay down and count toward your rack score....a

In EO you always take ball in hand behind the headstring after the break....it's unclear from the rule book whether or not you have to shoot "outside" the kitchen, but I think, based on the BCA defintion of "ball in hand", and since the only qualifier, is "behind the headstring", you are allowed to shoot balls in the kitchen....in 6 Pocket you play from where the cue ball comes to rest, except in the case of a foul and break where you can place the cue ball behind the headsring but have to shoot outside the kitchen....

The no penalty issue is a pretty big difference as is the inside/outside kitchen issue

Also of note is the fact there is no "defined" handicap system for EO and in 6 Pocket, we have Level Play.

Thank you for explaining the difference. Good Luck with your new 6 Pocket League.