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TheWhiteEwok
05-06-2009, 08:49 AM
I have recently joined the rank of APA 9 ball league to get some League practice in and I grimly learned that I am not able to jump in APA unless I use my full length cue.

In practice however - it is much harder to accomplish compared to jumping with a broken down jump cue.

Can anybody provide some advice, or tips, regarding things to pay attention to or focus when you are learning to jump with a full length cue?

socks
05-06-2009, 08:52 AM
yeah....learn to kick....

billbOK
05-06-2009, 08:55 AM
yeah....learn to kick....

LOL

If you ar using a LD shaft, forget about it. I can jump with different full length cues, but put a pred on it and I can't jump a fly s**t.

FAST_N_LOOSE
05-06-2009, 08:56 AM
To jump with a full cue, is going to take some serious practice. It's the same stroke as when using a jump cue, just be sure to follow through with a good firm stroke. A hard tip is also going to be helpful. A soft tip, or even some medium tips will compress to much, and not allow you to get the cue out of the way of the rebounding cueball.

It's not easy, so good luck.

FAST_N_LOOSE
05-06-2009, 08:57 AM
lol

if you ar using a ld shaft, forget about it. I can jump with different full length cues, but put a pred on it and i can't jump a fly s**t.

i jump with my predator...... What type of tip are you using?

Big Perm
05-06-2009, 08:58 AM
Similar principals apply.....35-45% angle.....firm stroke....you can jump about 75% of a ball.....there maybe others with more talent than myself, I cannot jump a full ball.....FYI, I only use my playing cue to jump, I'm a bit old school and still have not learned to use a jumper....I also like to kick like the other poster...

TheWhiteEwok
05-06-2009, 08:59 AM
yeah....learn to kick....

yeah ... already have ... what I CAN'T currently do is jump with a full cue.

Thanks, swing + miss.

TheWhiteEwok
05-06-2009, 09:00 AM
i jump with my predator...... What type of tip are you using?

Falcon jump break cue ... kind of low end, but works "well" - i have a white diamond phenolic tip.

FAST_N_LOOSE
05-06-2009, 09:03 AM
falcon jump break cue ... Kind of low end, but works "well" - i have a white diamond phenolic tip.

what type of tip and shaft on your playing cue? Or will your league operator let you switch back to your break cue to jump (it's illegal to do so after you break)

TheWhiteEwok
05-06-2009, 09:06 AM
what type of tip and shaft on your playing cue? Or will your league operator let you switch back to your break cue to jump (it's illegal to do so after you break)

Tip is a hard buffalo pressed on a predator z2 shaft

yes - LO will let me use my break cue to jump with, i just cant break it down.

I try to avoid having to jump at all costs, but sometimes having the ability comes useful. I would like to just be prepared for this different league with different set of rules.

billbOK
05-06-2009, 09:10 AM
i jump with my predator...... What type of tip are you using?

I use medium hard to hard tips (Sniper, LePro or Triumph).
Now I only play with originals shafts. I can jump well, even full ball jump (depends on the distance between CB and the ball to jump). I was playing before with a Z first gen shaft. I've not even tried to jump with it. Before that I had a 314 first gen 12.25 mm. I've never successfully jumped with it. I ve got to precise that I can jump from far before I first use a pred shaft.

FAST_N_LOOSE
05-06-2009, 09:12 AM
tip is a hard buffalo pressed on a predator z2 shaft

yes - lo will let me use my break cue to jump with, i just cant break it down.

I try to avoid having to jump at all costs, but sometimes having the ability comes useful. I would like to just be prepared for this different league with different set of rules.

jumping with the z will be very very tough.

If you can use your break cue, just get some practice time with it. You're not going to be able to jump with the cb close to the ob, but once you get it down, you'll have another weapon in your arsenal

macguy
05-06-2009, 09:12 AM
I have recently joined the rank of APA 9 ball league to get some League practice in and I grimly learned that I am not able to jump in APA unless I use my full length cue.

In practice however - it is much harder to accomplish compared to jumping with a broken down jump cue.

Can anybody provide some advice, or tips, regarding things to pay attention to or focus when you are learning to jump with a full length cue?

Does it have to be the cue you play with?

FAST_N_LOOSE
05-06-2009, 09:24 AM
does it have to be the cue you play with?

as per apa rules, it has to be the cue you play with. The only time a different cue can be used is for teh break shot.

But, his league operator allows them to go back to their break cue.

macneilb
05-06-2009, 09:36 AM
my advice would be to get a cheap J&J jump break with a phenolic tip, and learn to jump with it without breaking it down. That, or get a cheap sneaky and put a super pro or a super hard pressed tip. either will jump great, the only drawback being that you wont be able to make close jump shots. it'll save your tip on your cue a beating especially considering you're going to start practicing jumping which is pretty rough on a tip.

Nostroke
05-06-2009, 09:37 AM
If you have a white diamond or similar type tip, it shouldnt be much of a problem. I jump full stick no matter what. The looser the cue is in your hands at the moment of impact, the better. Thats the only advice i got and it worked for me.

BryanBpool
05-06-2009, 09:48 AM
Tip is a hard buffalo pressed on a predator z2 shaft

yes - LO will let me use my break cue to jump with, i just cant break it down.

I try to avoid having to jump at all costs, but sometimes having the ability comes useful. I would like to just be prepared for this different league with different set of rules.

I wil have to get this clarified in my league.

Two sessions ago they said that you can switch cues to jump, but the jump must be made with a full length cue. I have -0- issues jumping with the full length break cue (given the cue ball isnt too close to the object ball.)

Last session I was told that the rule was reversed, again, and that if I wanted to jump, my playing cue must be used. No go on that one. The 314-2 doesnt cooperate quite as well as the phenolic break cue. :-p

I wasnt shocked when I heard the rule was reversed. The APA does everything to hose the higher handicaps. No push etc etc. puke.

FAST_N_LOOSE
05-06-2009, 09:55 AM
i wil have to get this clarified in my league.

Two sessions ago they said that you can switch cues to jump, but the jump must be made with a full length cue. I have -0- issues jumping with the full length break cue (given the cue ball isnt too close to the object ball.)

last session i was told that the rule was reversed, again, and that if i wanted to jump, my playing cue must be used. No go on that one. The 314-2 doesnt cooperate quite as well as the phenolic break cue. :-p

i wasnt shocked when i heard the rule was reversed. The apa does everything to hose the higher handicaps. No push etc etc. Puke.

per apa rule, you must jump with your playing cue. Imo that favors the better players. The 2's 3's and 4's on my team have no chance to jump with a full lenght cue with a leather tip.

BryanBpool
05-06-2009, 10:02 AM
per apa rule, you must jump with your playing cue. Imo that favors the better players. The 2's 3's and 4's on my team have no chance to jump with a full lenght cue with a leather tip.

I guess you could look at it that way, but with a LD shaft and a softer tip jumping is damn difficult. I can do the partial ball jumps, but full balls are out of the question. For me at least.

IMO they should allow jump cues. If you can use it properly, good for you.

The APA adjusts the rules of the game, and it irritates me a bit. :-) I was raised to a 9 this session, and the only reason im still playing is because of the people on my team. They team would fold if Im not on it, and they enjoy the APA format much more than I.

Hell, I enjoyed it too when I was a 5 back in 2001. :-)

FAST_N_LOOSE
05-06-2009, 10:11 AM
i guess you could look at it that way, but with a ld shaft and a softer tip jumping is damn difficult. I can do the partial ball jumps, but full balls are out of the question. For me at least.

Imo they should allow jump cues. If you can use it properly, good for you.

The apa adjusts the rules of the game, and it irritates me a bit. :-) i was raised to a 9 this session, and the only reason im still playing is because of the people on my team. They team would fold if im not on it, and they enjoy the apa format much more than i.

Hell, i enjoyed it too when i was a 5 back in 2001. :-)


as a nine, try switching to a harder tip. It will make you even more accurate, and as a 9, you should have a true enough stroke to not miscue with it. That hard tip will also make it much easier to jump.

I agree that the jump cues should be legal.

We've been to vegas a few times now, asa team, and as a doubles team with my wife, and the apa is good for that stuff. If it's about being the best, than the apa isn't the best outlet. Just go, enjoy it, and laugh at how bad some of the other players are.....lol

poolfoole
05-06-2009, 10:13 AM
I have recently joined the rank of APA 9 ball league to get some League practice in and I grimly learned that I am not able to jump in APA unless I use my full length cue.

In practice however - it is much harder to accomplish compared to jumping with a broken down jump cue.

Can anybody provide some advice, or tips, regarding things to pay attention to or focus when you are learning to jump with a full length cue?

The APA claims that high skill players have an advantage against low skill players, so they don't allow the jump cue. This is bullsh!t, as I've been a victim of this rule several times in APA 9-ball and always against SL 6 and above players. With certain shots, kicking and masse shots are just not a viable option, and and I'm pretty good at kick shots.

For most shots, I am able to jump just fine with my breaking cue. If you have a real stiff break cue with a phenolic tip, there's not a big difference in jumping with a long cue and jumping with a jump cue for most shots. If the cue ball is real close to the ball you're jumping over, and there are no decent kicking or masse options, you're screwed unless you can really jack up and grip your cue almost like you would with a long cue which is very difficult to do. You can forget about a dark stroke too. You'll probably foul and a good 7 will run out on you.

BryanBpool
05-06-2009, 10:18 AM
as a nine, try switching to a harder tip. It will make you even more accurate, and as a 9, you should have a true enough stroke to not miscue with it. That hard tip will also make it much easier to jump.

I agree that the jump cues should be legal.

We've been to vegas a few times now, asa team, and as a doubles team with my wife, and the apa is good for that stuff. If it's about being the best, than the apa isn't the best outlet. Just go, enjoy it, and laugh at how bad some of the other players are.....lol

I havent been to vegas since 2001. We got 19th, a fair showing.

Unfortunately, All the dumping, or should i say, "handicap management" needed to compete at that level in the APA really left a foul taste in my mouth. I can vivdly remember one match, I was a 5 playing another 5. I won the match in 7 innings. 38-34. We both put up 19 ball runs.

Once we got back I informed my team at the time that I am going to play to win, period. I like winning waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much to dump. :-P

Im glad im a 9, even though I do not get to play as much as I would like. Typically Ill find some 20$ sets to play while the team shoots, and they can bother me for the occasional coach ;-)

I use a hercules medium tip. A "realtively" hard tip. I think the 314 is the problem for me. Ah well. I dont need to jump to beat people on league nights ;-)

BryanBpool
05-06-2009, 10:19 AM
The APA claims that high skill players have an advantage against low skill players, so they don't allow the jump cue. This is bullsh!t, as I've been a victim of this rule several times in APA 9-ball and always against SL 6 and above players. With certain shots, kicking and masse shots are just not a viable option, and and I'm pretty good at kick shots.

For most shots, I am able to jump just fine with my breaking cue. If you have a real stiff break cue with a phenolic tip, there's not a big difference in jumping with a long cue and jumping with a jump cue for most shots. If the cue ball is real close to the ball you're jumping over, and there are no decent kicking or masse options, you're screwed unless you can really jack up and grip your cue almost like you would with a long cue which is very difficult to do. You can forget about a dark stroke too. You'll probably foul and a good 7 will run out on you.

yup. Or when they break dry and hook the bat-snot outta ya. Then commence a two rack run. POOF you're down 40 balls with the spot. :-P

TheWhiteEwok
05-06-2009, 10:23 AM
The APA claims that high skill players have an advantage against low skill players, so they don't allow the jump cue. This is bullsh!t, as I've been a victim of this rule several times in APA 9-ball and always against SL 6 and above players. With certain shots, kicking and masse shots are just not a viable option, and and I'm pretty good at kick shots.

For most shots, I am able to jump just fine with my breaking cue. If you have a real stiff break cue with a phenolic tip, there's not a big difference in jumping with a long cue and jumping with a jump cue for most shots. If the cue ball is real close to the ball you're jumping over, and there are no decent kicking or masse options, you're screwed unless you can really jack up and grip your cue almost like you would with a long cue which is very difficult to do. You can forget about a dark stroke too. You'll probably foul and a good 7 will run out on you.

I will actively admit that I am new to competitive pool and a lot of my skill sets need to grow - one is jumping. I have a decent % for attempting and accomplishing jump shots (in the sense of not only jumping it but making the ball also) - but this is only with a shortened cue.

From my understanding there isnt much difference in jumping with a regular cue compared to a short one - its just an issue of matching the correct acceleration to compensate for the additional mass - so I realize its an issue of my lacking in stroke ability - so alas, I will practice my butt off.

I am not a huge fan of APA - for various reasons. But when you are a newb any practice will help, even if it is APA.

APA Gene
05-06-2009, 10:48 AM
Tip is a hard buffalo pressed on a predator z2 shaft

yes - LO will let me use my break cue to jump with, i just cant break it down.

I try to avoid having to jump at all costs, but sometimes having the ability comes useful. I would like to just be prepared for this different league with different set of rules.

As an FYI....the new APA rule in 2009 is you must jump with your regular playing cue. Regular playing cue is defined as the cue you take the majority of your shots with. Obviously this prevents those of us who were jumping with our break cues from doing so. (I can jump w/ my full break cue but not w/ my playing cue.)

dragon81
05-06-2009, 10:52 AM
As an FYI....the new APA rule in 2009 is you must jump with your regular playing cue. Regular playing cue is defined as the cue you take the majority of your shots with. Obviously this prevents those of us who were jumping with our break cues from doing so. (I can jump w/ my full break cue but not w/ my playing cue.)

I thought that was the rule all along...when I went to vegas (a looong time ago) they stated that as a rule then...you can't switch cues in the middle of the game....hmmm....oh well....I don't play APA anymore but good to know.

poolfoole
05-06-2009, 10:54 AM
yup. Or when they break dry and hook the bat-snot outta ya. Then commence a two rack run. POOF you're down 40 balls with the spot. :-P

I've had that happen a few times against good 7s and 8s. I could've made a good hit pretty routinely with a jump cue, but the rule wouldn't let me use it. I had to go for some impossible kick instead. Then my opponent runs 2 racks.

BryanBpool
05-06-2009, 10:55 AM
I've had that happen a few times against good 7s and 8s. I could've made a good hit pretty routinely with a jump cue, but the rule wouldn't let me use it. I had to go for some impossible kick instead. Then my opponent runs 2 racks.

Yup. Been there, done that.

Its no fun at all. :-(

poolfoole
05-06-2009, 10:57 AM
I will actively admit that I am new to competitive pool and a lot of my skill sets need to grow - one is jumping. I have a decent % for attempting and accomplishing jump shots (in the sense of not only jumping it but making the ball also) - but this is only with a shortened cue.

From my understanding there isnt much difference in jumping with a regular cue compared to a short one - its just an issue of matching the correct acceleration to compensate for the additional mass - so I realize its an issue of my lacking in stroke ability - so alas, I will practice my butt off.



The closer the cue ball is to the ball you're jumping over, the harder it is to compensate. Most of the time, it's not a big problem. Occasionally, the no jump cue rule bites you in the ass.

s'portplayer
05-06-2009, 11:11 AM
Watch videos of Earl Strickland.

He can jump better with a full length cue, than alot of people can with jump cue.

TheWhiteEwok
05-06-2009, 11:27 AM
Watch videos of Earl Strickland.

He can jump better with a full length cue, than alot of people can with jump cue.


Oh I have - that man has an immense stroke!

I know its possibly - so I will be able to do it eventually, with enough practice ... just right now - its hard!!

Hunter
05-06-2009, 11:33 AM
Watch videos of Earl Strickland.

He can jump better with a full length cue, than alot of people can with jump cue.

I agree...check out the full cue jump with draw at about the 46 second mark in this video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VLSnF3FFQg

jsp
05-06-2009, 11:49 AM
Believe it or not but I've never held a jump cue in my life (and I have my own table at home). So up until only a few weeks ago, I've never really attempted jumping, only because it was just too darn hard for me to do so with a full cue.

One day the fact that I never jumped a ball my entire life gave me the motivation to practice until I could successfully jump an entire ball with a full cue. Man that was a sweet feeling that first successful jump attempt. I still have no clue how much easier it is to jump with a jump cue, but from posts in this thread it seems that it's MUCH easier.

Anyway, I've found that the further away the obstruction ball (OB) is from the CB (obviously to a point), the easier it is to jump with a full cue. The closer the OB is to the CB, the more you'd have to elevate, and the harder it is to impart the necessary power to the CB with a full cue for the CB to jump an entire ball. The sweet spot for me is about 1-1.5 diamonds between CB and OB.

Oh, and I find it MUCH easier to jump a red circle CB than it is to jump the measles ball.

mamono
05-06-2009, 12:16 PM
I personnally use a J&J 4414 jump/break with an Aegis ferrule and triangle tip. Been that way for years for over a decade. I used to practice jumpping a lot and often choose full cue or broken down to jump section only depending on the distance. Full cue, I have yet to jump over a full ball even after all the practice. Broken down to jump section only, full ball jump is pretty easy. Cueball control after jump is where I have a problem with. I have yet to try a phelonic tip on my jump/break.

TXsouthpaw
05-06-2009, 12:51 PM
yeah....learn to kick....



lol amen to that. Id rather kick all day long, than jump. not always possible though.



and for the orignal question. practice.I never could jump consistently in the past. but since ive been working on it lately im able to clear a full ball from like 6 inches away. It really comes in handy. Practice till you cant lift your arm. Then switch hands.

TXsouthpaw
05-06-2009, 12:54 PM
double post

poolfoole
05-06-2009, 01:46 PM
Watch videos of Earl Strickland.

He can jump better with a full length cue, than alot of people can with jump cue.

That's true, but I've never seen him do a dart stroke and jump a cue ball over a blocking just 1 or 2 balls width away. Some jump shots you just can't do with a full length cue.

poolfoole
05-06-2009, 01:49 PM
yeah....learn to kick....

The main people who say this are people who don't know how to jump.

Some shots are impossible to hit in any way except a jump shot. I defy you to find a kick shot, or any shot other than a jump shot that will keep you from 3 fouling here. About 4:35 on the video. Shots like these are why jump shots are an essential part of 9-ball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja9y8Lv_A1s

poolfoole
05-06-2009, 01:49 PM
lol amen to that. Id rather kick all day long, than jump. not always possible though.



and for the orignal question. practice.I never could jump consistently in the past. but since ive been working on it lately im able to clear a full ball from like 6 inches away. It really comes in handy. Practice till you cant lift your arm. Then switch hands.

Sometimes a jump shot is the only option.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja9y8Lv_A1s

socks
05-06-2009, 02:37 PM
fine, blah ...i'll give an honest answer :P

the trick to make clearign a full ball as easy as possible is as others have stated a hard tip in conjunction with a high squirt shaft.

also, because theres more mass envolved, theres going to require more power input form stroke wich will really send the cb flying so acouple good rules of thumb when using full cue:
if the distance between cb and blocking ball is less than a diamond, try something else.
if the distance between the cb and blocking ball is more than 3 diamonds, your lekly to jump off the table.
if the distance between blocking ball and object ball is less than about 2 diamomds, try something else.
if the distance between the cb and the rail behind is less than 3 diamonds, your likely to jump off table.


basically, when jumping, the angle of the cb off the table will equal the angle of the cue stick, and then the angle of return will be equal as well. the variance is the power applied wich will equal the peak hieght the cb achieves at the top of its arch before macking its return back down. the more power the higher the arch , the more clearance, but when dealing in full stick jumping, your limited to the angle that can be achieved with the cue stick.

JB Cases
05-06-2009, 10:10 PM
This actually brings into focus the whole argument I have been making FOR YEARS about using jump cues vs. full length cues.

And that is that ALL FULL LENGTH CUES ARE DIFFERENT IN THIS REGARD.

As I read through this thread I see most of the replies talking about how this or that cue with this or that tip makes it easier or harder to jump the ball when using a full length -59 Inch cue.

Welcome to the REASON jump cues were invented.

Not because the technique is so hard although jumping with a full cue does take a certain technique that MUST be practiced (like anything else.) But instead because it's so inconsistent when the type of cue is taken into consideration.

So let's get back to what you need to do to learn to jump with your full cue.

First you need to learn the technique then you need to learn what the limits are so you aren't trying to do shots that are impossible or are beyond your current skill level.

So how to do this? The old fashioned way. Start by jumping over coins, then by jumping the edge of a blocking ball. Keep moving the blocking ball more and more in line with the cue ball until you are jumping a full ball.

Here is the trick. As you want more height to clear the ball you will need to elevate more and stroke faster and harder. Basically because the cue is much heavier than the cue ball it will cause the cueball to squirt away quickly so you want and need to drive it into the bed at a higher angle than you would need with a jump cue in order to compensate for the squirt.

The stroke motion will be more like a stabbing motion WITHOUT a full follow through. This is important because when you do the full follow through you CANNOT do the jab/stab stroke and your cue is already providing a lot of forward motion.

Basically you are trying to LIGHTEN your cue by not allowing the full weight to come to bear on the cue ball.

I don't have time or I would make a video of this for you.

You also need to choke up on your grip hand - hold it closer to the wrap. You will need to experiement here as each cue and person is different. However do not be discouraged. Rafael Martinez is about 3ft 5" (not really but probably not over 5'5") and he jumps with a Predator shaft outfitted cue as well as anyone in the world.

Lastly when you address the cueball you will want to hit it below the equator or the dividing line as it is facing you. If you are at 45 degrees then where your tip hits the cueball in the center is the equator. Aim LOWER than this line even if it means rasing the butt of the cue slightly more.

The closer the blocking ball is to the cueball the higher the elevation of the butt AND the lower on the cueball you will want to hit.

Last tip: There is NO SUCH THING as "Getting the cue out of the way of the ball" It's impossible for the cuetip and the cueball to occupy the same space on a proper shot. The only time that the cueball will hit the cue is when you have aimed too high and the cue follows through into the space that the cueball is going. If you hit the cueball BELOW the equator then it will NEVER EVER EVER hit the tip.

Have fun in the APA. Also if you plan to ever go to nationals don't fall into the trap of playing by local LO rules. Don't switch to your break cue to jump with only to find out that you can't do that at regionals and nationals.

JB Cases
05-06-2009, 10:17 PM
per apa rule, you must jump with your playing cue. Imo that favors the better players. The 2's 3's and 4's on my team have no chance to jump with a full lenght cue with a leather tip.

Absolutely 100% FACT.

The APA is out in space with their policy on jump cues. I personally think it's because Larry Hubbard and Terry Bell are old school and don't like them. But I know we sell a ton of jump cues at the APA Nationals every year even though the players can't use them.

TheWhiteEwok
05-07-2009, 08:29 AM
This actually brings into focus the whole argument I have been making FOR YEARS about using jump cues vs. full length cues.

And that is that ALL FULL LENGTH CUES ARE DIFFERENT IN THIS REGARD.

As I read through this thread I see most of the replies talking about how this or that cue with this or that tip makes it easier or harder to jump the ball when using a full length -59 Inch cue.

Welcome to the REASON jump cues were invented.

Not because the technique is so hard although jumping with a full cue does take a certain technique that MUST be practiced (like anything else.) But instead because it's so inconsistent when the type of cue is taken into consideration.

So let's get back to what you need to do to learn to jump with your full cue.

First you need to learn the technique then you need to learn what the limits are so you aren't trying to do shots that are impossible or are beyond your current skill level.

So how to do this? The old fashioned way. Start by jumping over coins, then by jumping the edge of a blocking ball. Keep moving the blocking ball more and more in line with the cue ball until you are jumping a full ball.

Here is the trick. As you want more height to clear the ball you will need to elevate more and stroke faster and harder. Basically because the cue is much heavier than the cue ball it will cause the cueball to squirt away quickly so you want and need to drive it into the bed at a higher angle than you would need with a jump cue in order to compensate for the squirt.

The stroke motion will be more like a stabbing motion WITHOUT a full follow through. This is important because when you do the full follow through you CANNOT do the jab/stab stroke and your cue is already providing a lot of forward motion.

Basically you are trying to LIGHTEN your cue by not allowing the full weight to come to bear on the cue ball.

I don't have time or I would make a video of this for you.

You also need to choke up on your grip hand - hold it closer to the wrap. You will need to experiement here as each cue and person is different. However do not be discouraged. Rafael Martinez is about 3ft 5" (not really but probably not over 5'5") and he jumps with a Predator shaft outfitted cue as well as anyone in the world.

Lastly when you address the cueball you will want to hit it below the equator or the dividing line as it is facing you. If you are at 45 degrees then where your tip hits the cueball in the center is the equator. Aim LOWER than this line even if it means rasing the butt of the cue slightly more.

The closer the blocking ball is to the cueball the higher the elevation of the butt AND the lower on the cueball you will want to hit.

Last tip: There is NO SUCH THING as "Getting the cue out of the way of the ball" It's impossible for the cuetip and the cueball to occupy the same space on a proper shot. The only time that the cueball will hit the cue is when you have aimed too high and the cue follows through into the space that the cueball is going. If you hit the cueball BELOW the equator then it will NEVER EVER EVER hit the tip.

Have fun in the APA. Also if you plan to ever go to nationals don't fall into the trap of playing by local LO rules. Don't switch to your break cue to jump with only to find out that you can't do that at regionals and nationals.



Thank you for this response! This was in fact what I was looking for - some advice on the actual "mechanics" of accomplishing the shot.

I do believe that I have been following through with my stroke and not enough of a hard strike / jab!!

Ironically I am using a phenolic tip which is frankly hate - this might be due to my "inability" or might be one of those occasions where I have found an attribute I DON'T like, i.e. thicker shafts.

I know that the math + physics support phenolic tips for "better / easier" jumping ability - So I will try a few different cues and tips when I practice - but my feeling is that my tip is hurting me a little.

I will definitely practice making certain I am using a firm fast Jab / Strike shot and not following through.

Hopefully with enough practice I can come back to AZ and claim success!

Thanks for your help!

TheWhiteEwok
05-07-2009, 08:31 AM
fine, blah ...i'll give an honest answer :P

the trick to make clearign a full ball as easy as possible is as others have stated a hard tip in conjunction with a high squirt shaft.

also, because theres more mass envolved, theres going to require more power input form stroke wich will really send the cb flying so acouple good rules of thumb when using full cue:
if the distance between cb and blocking ball is less than a diamond, try something else.
if the distance between the cb and blocking ball is more than 3 diamonds, your lekly to jump off the table.
if the distance between blocking ball and object ball is less than about 2 diamomds, try something else.
if the distance between the cb and the rail behind is less than 3 diamonds, your likely to jump off table.


basically, when jumping, the angle of the cb off the table will equal the angle of the cue stick, and then the angle of return will be equal as well. the variance is the power applied wich will equal the peak hieght the cb achieves at the top of its arch before macking its return back down. the more power the higher the arch , the more clearance, but when dealing in full stick jumping, your limited to the angle that can be achieved with the cue stick.


haha thanks socks for the honest answer!

I know it might be a tad frustrating for players with higher skills to share what they know - but I definitely appreciate the help!

.... haha .... and I will definitely keep working on my kick shots and diamond systems!

TheWhiteEwok
05-07-2009, 10:19 AM
I did it!

Sure enough the advice about having to use a faster, stronger jab / strike stroke was dead on!

I was trying to follow through originally and now after some practice i was 8/10!!

OB was 1 Diamond and then 2 Diamonds away from QB!

Thank you for your help!!

APA Gene
05-07-2009, 11:28 AM
Watch videos of Earl Strickland.

He can jump better with a full length cue, than alot of people can with jump cue.

Ain't that a fact!

SlickRick_PCS
05-07-2009, 12:27 PM
I have recently joined the rank of APA 9 ball league to get some League practice in and I grimly learned that I am not able to jump in APA unless I use my full length cue.

In practice however - it is much harder to accomplish compared to jumping with a broken down jump cue.

Can anybody provide some advice, or tips, regarding things to pay attention to or focus when you are learning to jump with a full length cue?

Take a hint, pal: This is the APA. Jumping is possible with a full cue, but highly improbable. They WANT you to kick shots so that they don't get the impression that you should use the "cheat stick" and play old fashion. That's why I am very imbetween in this APA system. I used to be in it, but I don't see the reason on why I have to pay five dollars one game every week just to reach a certain amount of points to where they set the limit of 23 within the whole team (call me a cheapskate but with this economy being so rough, I can't blame myself). This is complete malarkey. And to top it off, there is TONS of sandbagging. I played a 3 who should be a damn 5-6. I just simply do not like this system- like hustlers in repent. Sorry for those that differ, but that's just my opinion.

TheWhiteEwok
05-07-2009, 12:42 PM
Take a hint, pal: This is the APA. Jumping is possible with a full cue, but highly improbable. They WANT you to kick shots so that they don't get the impression that you should use the "cheat stick" and play old fashion. That's why I am very imbetween in this APA system. I used to be in it, but I don't see the reason on why I have to pay five dollars one game every week just to reach a certain amount of points to where they set the limit of 23 within the whole team (call me a cheapskate but with this economy being so rough, I can't blame myself). This is complete malarkey. And to top it off, there is TONS of sandbagging. I played a 3 who should be a damn 5-6. I just simply do not like this system- like hustlers in repent. Sorry for those that differ, but that's just my opinion.

Well, considering I have now practiced the technique and can accomplish it (in certain conditions) now, I would argue that its no longer "Highly improbable" - but that isnt the point.

APA is not the only place that I play - in fact it was first, but merely as a stepping stone. My personal goals have nothing to do with leagues like the BCA, APA, ACS, etc

With that being said - If somebody can do something on a pool table - I want to learn how to do the same thing - why cant I be as good or better as them?

I would rather be able to walk into an APA game, knowing I can jump with a full cue - and have one more skill in my arsenal in case somebody thinks they can hook me, yet leave me something I can jump.

I don't prefer the APA league at all - but alas, it is practice and allows me to (and you will respect this) pay $10 a night and play on the best tables all night for free (I also have to be aware of pool costs).

I have heard nightmarish stories of teams at APA national that are just unreal - some leagues don't score barely at all - some leagues, like the one I am in, score religiously.

Not in my future plans to be frustrated by playing in an APA nationals event - US Open or some other Pro tour event is my goal!

socks
05-07-2009, 12:46 PM
Well, considering I have now practiced the technique and can accomplish it (in certain conditions) now, I would argue that its no longer "Highly improbable" - but that isnt the point.

APA is not the only place that I play - in fact it was first, but merely as a stepping stone. My personal goals have nothing to do with leagues like the BCA, APA, ACS, etc

With that being said - If somebody can do something on a pool table - I want to learn how to do the same thing - why cant I be as good or better as them?

I would rather be able to walk into an APA game, knowing I can jump with a full cue - and have one more skill in my arsenal in case somebody thinks they can hook me, yet leave me something I can jump.

I don't prefer the APA league at all - but alas, it is practice and allows me to (and you will respect this) pay $10 a night and play on the best tables all night for free (I also have to be aware of pool costs).

I have heard nightmarish stories of teams at APA national that are just unreal - some leagues don't score barely at all - some leagues, like the one I am in, score religiously.

Not in my future plans to be frustrated by playing in an APA nationals event - US Open or some other Pro tour event is my goal!

thats a good goal to have. good luck to you sir in your quest.

TheWhiteEwok
05-07-2009, 12:52 PM
Thank you socks!

I see you are from Atlanta!

You aren't by chance going to be at the Pro event at the Marietta Billiard Club in July 10-12th?

I plan on popping my cherry there and paying some money to see how I hang with the real pool kats.

socks
05-07-2009, 01:01 PM
Thank you socks!

I see you are from Atlanta!

You aren't by chance going to be at the Pro event at the Marietta Billiard Club in July 10-12th?

I plan on popping my cherry there and paying some money to see how I hang with the real pool kats.

i'll probably pop in to watch. i doubt i'll play though. i hit up thier weeklies every once in awhile. family life keeps me from getting out of my league home at mazzy's much.

socks
05-07-2009, 01:02 PM
Thank you socks!

I see you are from Atlanta!

You aren't by chance going to be at the Pro event at the Marietta Billiard Club in July 10-12th?

I plan on popping my cherry there and paying some money to see how I hang with the real pool kats.

you know, i thought that name looked familier. is this carl?

TheWhiteEwok
05-07-2009, 01:14 PM
you know, i thought that name looked familier. is this carl?



Haha - yeah! Who is this?
You say MAzzy's - M1 or M2?

You arent an MFShooter are ya?!

SlickRick_PCS
05-07-2009, 01:16 PM
Well, considering I have now practiced the technique and can accomplish it (in certain conditions) now, I would argue that its no longer "Highly improbable" - but that isnt the point.

APA is not the only place that I play - in fact it was first, but merely as a stepping stone. My personal goals have nothing to do with leagues like the BCA, APA, ACS, etc

With that being said - If somebody can do something on a pool table - I want to learn how to do the same thing - why cant I be as good or better as them?

I would rather be able to walk into an APA game, knowing I can jump with a full cue - and have one more skill in my arsenal in case somebody thinks they can hook me, yet leave me something I can jump.

I don't prefer the APA league at all - but alas, it is practice and allows me to (and you will respect this) pay $10 a night and play on the best tables all night for free (I also have to be aware of pool costs).

I have heard nightmarish stories of teams at APA national that are just unreal - some leagues don't score barely at all - some leagues, like the one I am in, score religiously.

Not in my future plans to be frustrated by playing in an APA nationals event - US Open or some other Pro tour event is my goal!

I hate to burst your bubble there, Ewok, but using your normal cue on a thin cloth (i.e. Simonis) is not a walk in the park. If your pool tables are the thick pilled (the little ball of lent that you see under the cushions), nappy kind, then those are very easy to jump shots with. But try jumping on a 3.5' x7' coin-op table with a oversized cueball with a pool playing full cue, or a 4'x8' simonis cloth tables. Yea, I had to dealt with those two kinds and jumping is certainly no hanger.

But to break the tension here, I have mixed emotions about the jump cue and not using the jump cue. I like it, and I don't. I believe that Shane Van Boening's interview with The Action Report's Justin C. (JCIN on Azbilliards), pretty much says it nicely on how I kind of feel about the jump cue; I will use it only when the blocker ball is around a ball and a half from the OB. Although it is a great accomplishment learning how to full cue the jump shot (which BTW, kudos on that... since I know how difficult that is :thumbup:) try taking up some skills in Masse shots. It will never hurt to learn this as well.

As far as your goals on wanting to be in the big times: Sitting on this computer is not going to get you there. People like Shane Van Boening, Schmidt, Bata, Django, Shuffet, and many others around the world are playing for money for the pressure workout as well as practicing their asses off with joy. So get your rump off this computer, head to a nearby pool parlor (or house if you have a table), do drills, straight pool, rotation and whatever game you desire, and enjoy the brains out of it! ;)

TheWhiteEwok
05-07-2009, 01:22 PM
I hate to burst your bubble there, Ewok, but using your normal cue on a thin cloth (i.e. Simonis) is not a walk in the park. If your pool tables are the thick pilled (the little ball of lent that you see under the cushions), nappy kind, then those are very easy to jump shots with. But try jumping on a 3.5' x7' coin-op table with a oversized cueball with a pool playing full cue, or a 4'x8' simonis cloth tables. Yea, I had to dealt with those two kinds and jumping is certainly no hanger.

But to break the tension here, I have mixed emotions about the jump cue and not using the jump cue. I like it, and I don't. I believe that Shane Van Boening's interview with The Action Report's Justin G. (JCIN on Azbilliards), pretty much says it nicely on how I kind of feel about the jump cue; I will use it only when the blocker ball is around a ball and a half from the OB. Although it is a great accomplishment learning how to full cue the jump shot (which BTW, kudos on that... since I know how difficult that is :thumbup:) try taking up some skills in Masse shots. It will never hurt to learn this as well.

As far as your goals on wanting to be in the big times: Sitting on this computer is not going to get you there. People like Shane Van Boening, Schmidt, Bata, Django, Shuffet, and many others around the world are playing for money for the pressure workout as well as practicing their asses off with joy. So get your rump off this computer, head to a nearby pool parlor (or house if you have a table), do drills, straight pool, rotation and whatever game you desire, and enjoy the brains out of it! ;)

Haha - I will give you some room there with the comment about the different tables - Yes the one I practiced on today was 9 foot brunswick, but not the nice Simonis cloth. I will go to one of my halls next week to practice on a table I know I can jump-practice on.

Agreed about learning it all - I do practice some Masse shots, but my learning curve on that is utterly ad hoc - I dont know the methodology yet - So i am just learning on my own "what does what". Eventually I will get more technical with it to add it to my game.

Haha - well, regarding my rump being plastered behind a screen right now - some of us have day jobs (haha) - luckily mine allows for this type of thing.

However after 5pm you will usually find me in the hall, 6 days a week, till close, doing exactly what you suggested!!

I have goals, but I also know that to achieve them you have to practice!!

SlickRick_PCS
05-07-2009, 01:29 PM
Haha - I will give you some room there with the comment about the different tables - Yes the one I practiced on today was 9 foot brunswick, but not the nice Simonis cloth. I will go to one of my halls next week to practice on a table I know I can jump-practice on. .

9 foot tables... sexy! :yeah: Yea, those tables are room for errors :ok:

Agreed about learning it all - I do practice some Masse shots, but my learning curve on that is utterly ad hoc - I dont know the methodology yet - So i am just learning on my own "what does what". Eventually I will get more technical with it to add it to my game.

Masse anatomy, no problem: Eric Yow (http://www.ericyow.com/yowmasse.html), Dr. Dave has some good stuff here (http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/index.html) (btw, his book is great; I recommend it), and talk to Jamison Neu (JamisonNeu in the forums here).

socks
05-07-2009, 01:38 PM
Haha - yeah! Who is this?
You say MAzzy's - M1 or M2?

You arent an MFShooter are ya?!

i am. this is jay...the red headed guy on ron's team.

TheWhiteEwok
05-07-2009, 01:42 PM
i am. this is jay...the red headed guy on ron's team.

Haha, what is UP Jay!

haha this is the guy that taught me how to jump!! haha that is hilarious!

well dude i am at Big Shots on M + T, MBC on Th,Sa,Su (and sometimes W or F)

Going to try to alternate M + F to Mr Cues for their A/B/C tournaments (M)

You should join!

MitchAlsup
05-07-2009, 08:31 PM
Question: What would be the penalty if someone attempted to jump with his full length playing cue, overstroked it a bunch, and tore the felt to smithereens?

conetip
05-08-2009, 04:08 AM
Tip is a hard buffalo pressed on a predator z2 shaft

yes - LO will let me use my break cue to jump with, i just cant break it down.

I try to avoid having to jump at all costs, but sometimes having the ability comes useful. I would like to just be prepared for this different league with different set of rules.

In our apa league, you have to use your playing cue after the break. Some people have been caught out, by using a bar cue for the break,making a couple and then being excited, continue to play.Then they realise that they have been playing with the bar cue, and are now stuck with it for the rest of the game.
Some places do not allow jump shoots, but those that do, the jump has to be made with the playing cue.
I am not allowed to change tips after the play of the game, unless a tip fails. But I have not yet had a failed tip.
So keep practicing, and you will get the jump to gel for you.I find the super pro tips to be good for jump and play.
Neil

TheWhiteEwok
05-08-2009, 06:14 AM
In our apa league, you have to use your playing cue after the break. Some people have been caught out, by using a bar cue for the break,making a couple and then being excited, continue to play.Then they realise that they have been playing with the bar cue, and are now stuck with it for the rest of the game.
Some places do not allow jump shoots, but those that do, the jump has to be made with the playing cue.
I am not allowed to change tips after the play of the game, unless a tip fails. But I have not yet had a failed tip.
So keep practicing, and you will get the jump to gel for you.I find the super pro tips to be good for jump and play.
Neil

Yeah - this is one of my major gripes about APA - the absolute and utter differences allowed between various leagues due to its business structure.

It has been ruled before down here that I have to jump with my "playing cue" but that if you break with a secondary stick you can use that as your "playing cue" .... or effectively the term "playing cue" applies to both your shooting cue and your breaking cue.

However - things change in APA all the time, so now that ruling very well might be different - I actually have posted a forum in our local APA forum asking for the exact details of the rules/laws/situations.

I have heard good things about super pro tips - and am considering changing my phenolic back to leather - thanks for the suggestion!