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View Full Version : How much $$$ is too much when gambling with a friend?


Brozif
05-07-2009, 10:20 AM
First let me say that if this topic has been talked about before, I apologize for bringing it up again and it being so long!!

How much money is too much when gambling with a friend?

I have played against friends before and been fortunate to win. Always a cheap set like race to 5 for $20. In doing so, I have noticed that because of it, our friendship has suffered. I have also played a friendly ring 9 game with friends, and when I say friendly, I mean a quarter on the 5 and 50 cents on the 9. Iím not trying to win enough money to make my mortgage payment, or prevent them from being able to pay theirs.

I never quit when Iím ahead. I believe that as long as the person that is losing wants to continue to play, I will give them a chance to win their money back. When playing sets against friends, I have actually tried to offer them weight if I feel that Iím blowing them off the table. Some have taken it, and some havenít. The oneís that havenít taken the offer are the ones that seem to think that Iím insulting them by even offering.

Am I insulting them? I donít mean to, but if Iím winning the sets easily, then as a friend I want them to have a chance. I thought I was being a nice guy. They have taken it as if I think that I am better than them. I have tried to explain to them, that Iím not trying to steal money from them, to the point where I have refused to even take their money. Of course that just upsets them more. Have I insulted them somehow, without even realizing it?

I absolutely refuse to gamble with friends for anything more than table time now.

How do these proís play each other for thousands of dollars knowing that itís so hard to make a living from just playing pool? These guys see each other all the time in big tournaments. I know theyíre not friends when they are playing against each other in a tournament match, but outside of the tournament how can they not become friends after spending so much time together? Are SVB and Corey Deuel friends? Could you take $25,000 from a friend, and still be able to call him/her that? I know they have stake horses and all, but some of the loss has to come from them.

I would appreciate any feedback you have. Donít hesitate to tell me that Iím wrong. I would rather you were 100% honest with me, as I donít ever want to insult or disrespect any of my opponents.

KoolKat9Lives
05-07-2009, 10:30 AM
Good post, good questions.

Every "friend" is a case by case scenario, so although there may be rules of thumb, there's no hard and fast answer. I've noticed many pros won't play certain other pros that they are friends with. Seems they too like an arms length relationship when going for the big money.

Maybe JoeW can break down the physcological basis for this...

But I think you're on the right track and you've basically answered your own question - for YOU. Some players don't give a rat's ass who's money they go after, but you aren't 'that' type. Good for you I say!

macguy
05-07-2009, 10:33 AM
First let me say that if this topic has been talked about before, I apologize for bringing it up again and it being so long!!

How much money is too much when gambling with a friend?

I have played against friends before and been fortunate to win. Always a cheap set like race to 5 for $20. In doing so, I have noticed that because of it, our friendship has suffered. I have also played a friendly ring 9 game with friends, and when I say friendly, I mean a quarter on the 5 and 50 cents on the 9. Iím not trying to win enough money to make my mortgage payment, or prevent them from being able to pay theirs.

I never quit when Iím ahead. I believe that as long as the person that is losing wants to continue to play, I will give them a chance to win their money back. When playing sets against friends, I have actually tried to offer them weight if I feel that Iím blowing them off the table. Some have taken it, and some havenít. The oneís that havenít taken the offer are the ones that seem to think that Iím insulting them by even offering.

Am I insulting them? I donít mean to, but if Iím winning the sets easily, then as a friend I want them to have a chance. I thought I was being a nice guy. They have taken it as if I think that I am better than them. I have tried to explain to them, that Iím not trying to steal money from them, to the point where I have refused to even take their money. Of course that just upsets them more. Have I insulted them somehow, without even realizing it?

I absolutely refuse to gamble with friends for anything more than table time now.

How do these proís play each other for thousands of dollars knowing that itís so hard to make a living from just playing pool? These guys see each other all the time in big tournaments. I know theyíre not friends when they are playing against each other in a tournament match, but outside of the tournament how can they not become friends after spending so much time together? Are SVB and Corey Deuel friends? Could you take $25,000 from a friend, and still be able to call him/her that? I know they have stake horses and all, but some of the loss has to come from them.

I would appreciate any feedback you have. Donít hesitate to tell me that Iím wrong. I would rather you were 100% honest with me, as I donít ever want to insult or disrespect any of my opponents.
Any amount is too much. Pool is not like say poker. In poker you get the cards or you don't. Pool you beat your opponent much like in boxing. You knock him out and it is personal.

Apocalypse2017
05-07-2009, 10:33 AM
long time ago I had a party at my house. My friends were playin pool on my table and everyone was drinking. One thing led to another and I found myself playing a best of 3 with my friend for $200.00. Of course I smoked him(he thought I was drunk), and he was very upset. But he learned a valueable lesson that night and will never play me for money again. We are still good friends, in fact he was over last night playing some 8 ball.

Sam Waltz
05-07-2009, 10:47 AM
I agree with and have experienced just about everything you stated in that post and the best statement you made was about only playin' for table time from now on with friends! Many a "friend" has been lost over the exchange of money and it's not worth it either way. Losin' a friend over gamblin' is just bettin' way too high for my tastes. I've got less friends than I have dollars and I'd rather not part with either one of them!

On to your other question...NO you are not being insulting to them. Their pride is standing in the way of logic IMO! You are being a nice guy in trying to "adjust" the game to be more fair and competitive and apparently they find it insulting uneccessarily. Don't sweat it though, as pride is very important to most and should never be tampered with. If you know that your opponent will feel insulted by offering weight, then remember that and don't offer.

It sounds to me like your cruisin' down a pretty righteous path and if you search yourself for these type of answers you'll be happy to know they are right there to be found. Let your conscience be your guide and don't do anything you aren't comfortable with. You seem to be quite an intelligent person so I'm sure you'll continue to make the right choices regarding your friends and playin' pool with them.

Keep hittin' 'em true sir! Until we meet again... :thumbup:

D3FTW
05-07-2009, 10:48 AM
Brozif,

I understand where you are coming from. Every thursday night we (3 friends and I) play a scotch double 8 ball game at my house. Play is usually 5.00USD a stick to play. We will run the game from around 8:30 to about midnight. Coins are fliped to pick partners, and for first break.

Sometimes a large amount of money can be won or lost. I usually feel bad because out of the three people that play two work for me at my store. I know how much they make, and I feel when they get down on the money we should stop the game. I don't know how to get that across without being insulting.

Also I have been known to go double or nothing with friends when I am up on the money. I figure it really wasn't mine to begin with so whats the problem letting them try to earn it back?

Maybe I am just to nice, or dumb with my money. Who knows, in the end I just love playing the game.

I know this dosen't help your situation Brozif, but I do understand how you feel. Anybody else have any advice?

mikeyfrost
05-07-2009, 10:49 AM
It's something I honestly dislike doing. I try really hard to avoid it. sometimes though it just happens and it's never as sweet a win as it could be.

CamposCues
05-07-2009, 10:57 AM
Any amount is too much. Pool is not like say poker. In poker you get the cards or you don't. Pool you beat your opponent much like in boxing. You knock him out and it is personal.

It's true. After a small bar tournament and lots of drinking my buddy (both have egos) and I were playing some cheap sets. I was up about 50 and he was getting mad and talking trash etc. I talked trash back etc. A couple more sets my way and about bar close, the trash talking and money winning leads to him trying to strangle me. We end up duking it out a little, no biggie, we grew up together it wasn't the first time. We are leaving the bar and he's still pissed and eye balling me from across the lot. I keep trying to lift my leg to get into my truck but can't (pretending). I yell over to him that I can't lift my leg high enough to get in my truck because my pockets full of your money. He runs across the lot and we duke it out again. Damn it was funny...guess you had to be there:wink:

blah blah
05-07-2009, 10:58 AM
I don't $ gamble with friends- money changes a lot of feelings. However, competition can still be encouraged with gambling- just not using money as the bet. I even worry that ring games can affect friendships- arguments over safe leaves, people being accused of playing brothers- in law... So I offer, instead of money:

Safe Things to Bet With Friends:

Signed dollar. (I've said this one elsewhere). Loser has to: sign and date the dollar, write the location and reason it was lost, AND include a compliment about the winner. Much debate occurs during the final signing as to whether the slogan constitutes a compliment ("you suck" or "you cheated" don't count, but "you made every fly, you lucky s.o.b." could count). Anyway, it creates a lasting memory.

Favors/ errands. Buy winner a meal. Drive the winner somewhere. Pay for the next social outing (movie, golf, nightclub, whatever.) If a roommate: do winner's dishes/ clean bathroom/ yard work/ etc.

Embarrassing acts/ double- dog- dares. Loser runs around the table squawking like a chicken. Loser has to accept the very next double dog dare or, upon refusal, cough up $10 (sing a song of winner's choosing at karaoke. Get on the mic during the bar band's intermission and announce to everyone that this is your first night out since the institutionalization. Tell that girl at the bar how your imaginary "day at the clinic" went. Whatever.) By this point, the $10 exit option should no longer be a gamble with hard feelings.

trustyrusty
05-07-2009, 11:04 AM
I say screw 'em....take all their money, and buy yourself some new and better friends. :eek: J/K, of course. ;)

Sam Waltz
05-07-2009, 11:06 AM
I've got two signed dollars from one of my buddies! He signed one of 'em "To Texas Hold 'em Sam, the BEST there ever was!" It's a keeper! He's got one from me when he smoked my a$$ bowling one time, but I'm sure I wrote some smarta$$ "compliment" on that one as well! Always fun and nobody gets their panties in a bunch! :thumbup:

ShootingArts
05-07-2009, 11:07 AM
Great posts in this thread already but I'll add my take. Playing friends for enough money to matter is a no-win deal. I made a hard and fast rule against betting cash with friends. Regardless of if you hurt their pocket book or their pride you still lose.

Long ago I learned to play two speeds, commercial grade and banger grade. On a social evening I didn't break out the commercial grade game that I used to make money. None of my friends focused on pool as intensely as I did and none played at my level. Most could beat me at something else, pinball, foosball, something they were more interested in. I always realized that I had an unfair advantage on a pool table and never felt the need to grind it in.

Real friends are very hard to come by and friendship and gambling cash don't mix.

Hu

Kevin Lindstrom
05-07-2009, 11:12 AM
If your gonna gamble with friends it better be cheap bets otherwise you are surely asking to lose the friendship. I gamble very cheap with people I consider friends. Gambling has ruined the game for me. If I can't play for at least a dollar I have no interest in playing. My friend and I will play a game of 14.1 to 100 points for 5 dollars. We go back and forth winning and losing. Nobody gets hurt and the 5 is enough to keep both of us interested in winning the game.

Kevin

i4pool
05-07-2009, 11:14 AM
Yes... Good post!

Personally, if the person is a valued friend and I noticed the friendship suffering I wouldn't do it anymore. But I also think it depends on the particular friend. I have a buddy who enjoys the added pressure of gambling for a small amount. I think it should depend on the individual.

-Abe

Da Bank
05-07-2009, 11:18 AM
I have experienced a bit of what you are talking about, but have also had some different experiences.

I have my pool buddies, and they always want to gamble. For the most part, I am the youngest or newest guy in the group... which also means I'm the one improving at the most rapid rate. 6 months ago my friend could have given me the 6 out on the big tables and still killed me, today he gives me the 8 and we split sets 50/50. He does get visibly frustrated sometimes and this is almost always because of how he plays and has very little to do with me. My friends and I never gamble with each other for more than $100 in total losses in a given night, and usually it's not even close to that. One of us is probably going to leave in a worse mood than the other person, but it never becomes personal and we enjoy the competition because it drives us to improve. If one of us comes out one day and beats the snot out of the others, it is almost a certainty that next week the others are gonna come back very strong and even things up again.

The point is, when we are competing then that is what we are doing... friendship doesn't have much to do with it. We know we aren't going to cheat each other, so tempers never flare too high. After competition is done, we are buddies again and enjoying beers together.

If you have friends that are consistently getting their noses out of joint for losing and will not take weight, then stop gambling with them. You have to be able to tell the difference between being frustrated with how you play and actually getting angry at your friend.

BillPorter
05-07-2009, 11:29 AM
For the most part, I agree with macguy and avoid gambling with friends. After all, as a certified "locksmith," if you see me "gambling" at pool, I probably have way the best of it. And you just don't put a friend at that kind of disadvantage. But, as with most rules, I believe this one has an exception or two. Some of my friends at the pool hall never play a game of pool without gambling on it. On a slow day, with few potential opponents available, one of the gambling friends may challenge me to play some one-pocket (about the only game I play). But since we are friends, the stakes might be $5 a game. In this setting, winning or losing $10 - $20 isn't going to upset anyone. And with these guys, we always "adjust" if someone wins a couple of sessions in a row.

iba7467
05-07-2009, 11:30 AM
If your friends gamble regularly and lose at least occasionally, you beating them should not be an issue. All of my friends and I gamble. Usually for small stakes. I have busted a couple of them more than once though. Even to the point of taking their cue. The thing is that they would have done the same playing anyone else in the room. I might also stake or bet with them any other time. If I make a bet, friend or not, I shake hands and pay up when I'm done. I wouldn't make the bet if I didn't expect there was a possibility I could lose.



Note: I generally do not play friends for large sums and if it is a friendly game the goal is to do no more than win enough to buy dinner.

BVal
05-07-2009, 11:31 AM
long time ago I had a party at my house. My friends were playin pool on my table and everyone was drinking. One thing led to another and I found myself playing a best of 3 with my friend for $200.00. Of course I smoked him(he thought I was drunk), and he was very upset. But he learned a valueable lesson that night and will never play me for money again. We are still good friends, in fact he was over last night playing some 8 ball.
For how much :)

BVal

houmatroy
05-07-2009, 11:33 AM
I won't gamble money with any close friend...meals or drinks don't count...If somebody is constantly trying to gamble money with you then they are drawing the line in the sand...they become a acquaintance and not a true friend..so then game on...I have people that I use to gamble against also that have become close friends & we mutually just quit betting against each other..so it's mostly a case by case issue & the other person usually makes it clear what position they take.

Apocalypse2017
05-07-2009, 11:35 AM
For how much :)

BVal

;) he learned his lesson

gpeezy
05-07-2009, 12:11 PM
Well it actually depends on the person. I've known people to take offense to it. Gambling is more personal to some as it is. I have no problem with a friend asking me to play some. I wish more would. It would be easier to stay in action. I don't mind if I get taken off. Makes me more humble and make me reset and try harder.

Richardson
05-07-2009, 01:05 PM
I will play $20 sets with friends. Or $5 a game 1 hole.

iba7467
05-07-2009, 01:07 PM
I have no problem with a friend asking me to play some. I wish more would. It would be easier to stay in action. I don't mind if I get taken off.

That's for sure!!! What's your record against me?

uwate
05-07-2009, 01:16 PM
It all depends on the level of friendship and also the nature of the person. My closest buddies, we gamble for lunches, pushups, riding shotgun...small stuff.

I have other people who I consider friends that I have bet 200 a game with. Granted this friend is a bookie and I know that win or lose he will still act the same way to me so I am comfortable gambling higher with him.

RenoRex
05-07-2009, 01:21 PM
Never, Ever, would I play a True Friend for money.

I will, however, wager with casual friends.

9 on the snap
05-07-2009, 01:28 PM
I gamble with my friends all the time. Usually 9ball for $5-$20 a rack. $100 at the end of the night is a big haul. Most of the time we pass the same bills back and forth because we are all pretty even, and that's what makes it fun. I love taking $50 or $100 from one of my buddies, and then giving him Shit about it until the next time we play. I might say somthing like: "Boy, if I win much more money from you; your gonna have to send me a 1099 at the end of the year!":thumbup:

Pushout
05-07-2009, 01:33 PM
Close friends I try not to bet with. I can't bear down or concentrate. Hate to play friends in tournaments for the same reason.

CreeDo
05-07-2009, 05:58 PM
I think the amount can be calculated pretty easily... how much money do they need to bet to care about the game? Subtract a buck or three from that amount and that's what you play for. If they just need some nominal cash (say 5 bucks) to bear down, play 'em for 3 =)

I also like the idea of friends 'trading' games they are supposed to win. Like you play 20 dollar eight ball (where you always win), but then play 20 dollar pinball (where your buddy always wins). Unless something crazy happens, nobody's losing anything.

donny mills
05-07-2009, 06:47 PM
long time ago I had a party at my house. My friends were playin pool on my table and everyone was drinking. One thing led to another and I found myself playing a best of 3 with my friend for $200.00. Of course I smoked him(he thought I was drunk), and he was very upset. But he learned a valueable lesson that night and will never play me for money again. We are still good friends, in fact he was over last night playing some 8 ball.

Best of 3 for 200? I need to make friends with some of your friends and sneak over to your house and get in some of these 200 dollar games.

Neil
05-07-2009, 07:15 PM
..............

dragon81
05-07-2009, 07:21 PM
Best of 3 for 200? I need to make friends with some of your friends and sneak over to your house and get in some of these 200 dollar games.

wanna play scotch doubles....us against them? LOL

tom haney
05-07-2009, 07:33 PM
My friends and I keep it at $2 max, but most of my pool playing buddies
are dead so I never lose much.

catpool9
05-07-2009, 08:03 PM
I won't gamble money with any close friend...meals or drinks don't count...If somebody is constantly trying to gamble money with you then they are drawing the line in the sand...they become a acquaintance and not a true friend..so then game on...I have people that I use to gamble against also that have become close friends & we mutually just quit betting against each other..so it's mostly a case by case issue & the other person usually makes it clear what position they take.


Just me but I don't gamble with my closest friends, if anything team up and go in together and play everyone else, most people I play become friends with me so not much action, but I do try to stay on the bad side of a few so I will have some action!...lol


David Harcrow

grindz
05-08-2009, 10:08 AM
First let me say that if this topic has been talked about before, I apologize for bringing it up again and it being so long!!

How much money is too much when gambling with a friend?

I have played against friends before and been fortunate to win. Always a cheap set like race to 5 for $20. In doing so, I have noticed that because of it, our friendship has suffered. I have also played a friendly ring 9 game with friends, and when I say friendly, I mean a quarter on the 5 and 50 cents on the 9. Iím not trying to win enough money to make my mortgage payment, or prevent them from being able to pay theirs.

I never quit when Iím ahead. I believe that as long as the person that is losing wants to continue to play, I will give them a chance to win their money back. When playing sets against friends, I have actually tried to offer them weight if I feel that Iím blowing them off the table. Some have taken it, and some havenít. The oneís that havenít taken the offer are the ones that seem to think that Iím insulting them by even offering.

Am I insulting them? I donít mean to, but if Iím winning the sets easily, then as a friend I want them to have a chance. I thought I was being a nice guy. They have taken it as if I think that I am better than them. I have tried to explain to them, that Iím not trying to steal money from them, to the point where I have refused to even take their money. Of course that just upsets them more. Have I insulted them somehow, without even realizing it?

I absolutely refuse to gamble with friends for anything more than table time now.

How do these proís play each other for thousands of dollars knowing that itís so hard to make a living from just playing pool? These guys see each other all the time in big tournaments. I know theyíre not friends when they are playing against each other in a tournament match, but outside of the tournament how can they not become friends after spending so much time together? Are SVB and Corey Deuel friends? Could you take $25,000 from a friend, and still be able to call him/her that? I know they have stake horses and all, but some of the loss has to come from them.

I would appreciate any feedback you have. Donít hesitate to tell me that Iím wrong. I would rather you were 100% honest with me, as I donít ever want to insult or disrespect any of my opponents.

I never was much of a gambler (in pool) and now I choose not to.......
But the RULES are always...
......DON'T bet when what you can win is FAR LESS than what you may lose..... AND..... NEVER bet what you can't afford to lose.

Those rules don't just apply to money.................

td

Brozif
05-08-2009, 10:18 AM
I want to thank you all for your input on this subject. There is a lot of good advice here. I was just wondering if I was doing things right or not. Thanks!!

jungledude
05-08-2009, 10:36 AM
:thumbup: I play against two of my very good friends regularly for $1,000 a game (one pocket= me against the two of them) this has been going on regurlarly for two years and we still always enjoy it regardless of the outcome. The way I look at it, I'd rather lose to a friend then some scumbag. :thumbup: :wink: :thumbup:

Beware_of_Dawg
05-08-2009, 11:33 AM
my close friends and I will gamble for push-ups. lose a short set= 25 pushups before the next set starts. That or from time to time we will play loser buys the winner a shot of Jaegermeister. Never bet a friend real cash.

daw8wang
05-08-2009, 11:53 AM
i think the common courtesy in gambling is to play for an agreeable amount, win or lose with class. i absolutely hate to gamble with people who are cheap... gambling is fun and exciting, but they have ways to turn it into a moaning exhibition, and when they win, they want to quit after one set.

if someone cannot stand to lose 10 dollars or whatever amount that was on the line, then they shouldn't be gambling.