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JAM
05-09-2009, 05:28 AM
Over the years since my participation on AzBilliards, I have ascertained two distinct schools of thought as it pertains to pool.

There are some who enjoy watching the high-profile competitions, world-class championships, with tournament soldiers giving it their all on a field of green. Mum pool is the norm, and the competitors let their sticks do the talking for them.

On the other side of the coin, the action players betting it as high as the Georgia pine seems to generate a lot of interest, and the best part of the match-up is the barking that takes place beforehand, attracting the attention from all those in attendance.

Movies like "The Hustler" and "The Color of Money" seem to accentuate the action side of pool, and associated with their release dates, pool enjoyed a boom in popularity, so they say.

Me personally, I do enjoy tournaments, when you can cut the air with a knife. You can actually hear a pin drop sometimes, the tension is so thick. The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat is showcased in its truest form, and of course, for the victor, having that championship title of first place means more than the money payouts in some cases.

So I have created yet another pool poll in an effort to see what the climate is today in the pool world. This is a blind poll. So all you lurkers out there, please feel free to cast your vote. :wink:

If you had your choice of two pool happenings to watch, which would it be, the finals of a tournament or an action match for high stakes?

whitewolf
05-09-2009, 06:07 AM
Compared to action, tournament play is EXTREMELY boring.

whitewolf
05-09-2009, 06:09 AM
Thinking about this a little more, I think you may want to add another choice: the Mosconi Cup. This is more exciting than action matches.

TX Poolnut
05-09-2009, 06:12 AM
I'd rather watch the finals of a major tournament rather than two players gambling.

Gambling is for money and you can see that any day of the week.

Major tournaments are for money and prestige and only come around so often.

Rich R.
05-09-2009, 06:12 AM
Although I enjoy watching both tournaments and action, I have to give my vote to the tournaments.

Too often, when you go to the pool room to see an action match, all you get to see is a lot of barking and the match never happens. At least in tournament pool, you know you will get to see some good pool.

Every once in a while at a tournament, you get to see something special, and "you can take that to the internet". :thumbup:

JAM
05-09-2009, 06:17 AM
Thinking about this a little more, I think you may want to add another choice: the Mosconi Cup. This is more exciting than action matches.

The Mosconi Cup, though it generates excitement in the crowds, especially the foot-stomping, airhorn-blowing Europeans, it is a once-a-year pool happening.

Rather, I was trying to gain a little insight into where pool stands today.

The Derby City Classic is known for its action games, but they also have the All-Around Prize for the tournaments. Then there's the lifetime Louie Roberts A&E Award for the player who generated the most ACTION and ENTERTAINMENT a la Louie Roberts style. :wink:

As far as tournaments go, I have witnessed some EXCELLENT finals matches. I saw Ginky over Allen Hopkins at Snooker's in Providence one year, and it was about as fine a pool you could have witnessed. Allen wasn't missing anything, and neither was Ginky. It was pool at its finest, and I was thrilled to be there and watch it unfold.

In recent times, especially on this forum, there seems to be a lot of conversation(s) about gambling. Though I do enjoy the threads, I also am tiring of the incessant railbird forum barking.

As far as tournaments go, I really, really, really like seeing them up front and close, but when they appear on TV, I'm inclined to switch the channel because I get bored. I am beginning to understand why ESPN shortens the matches and cuts out some of the content. That is sad, coming from me, a pool enthusiast, but it's the truth.

Whoever said pool was not a viewing sport hit the nail on the head. Whether it's action or tournaments, being there in person is so, so, so much better! :)

tigerseye
05-09-2009, 06:39 AM
As a player a tourney win is more satisfying because instead of beating 1-opponent you have beaten several opponents....
The King of the Hill, so to speak...lol...

Tiddler
05-09-2009, 07:00 AM
On the viewing end I like tournaments because you can pick the matches you want to see and if they suck you can move on to another match. I watched a gambling match for 3 hours early one morning and by the time it was over I'd rather have slept through it. It was $100 a game 9 ball in 1976 between a player and a wannabe with the wannabe losing at least 3 grand. By the 7th game it was obvious he couldn't win, but he wouldn't quit until he was broke. It was like a train wreck and painful to watch. To add to the fun, while I watching the action someone was robbing my apartment....

wolfcookie
05-09-2009, 07:06 AM
I thought you were asking what you would rather play, not watch..I would rather play a race to 7 far a couple c notes then play in a 32 man turny. But If I was going to watch I agree Mosconi cup..:)

trustyrusty
05-09-2009, 07:13 AM
top levels of play both are GREAT....below that, I'd much rather watch or play tourneys. Too many "moves" going on in lower level action (to get or lessen spots) to see all out play. Sure, some use bad tourney play just to set up action later, but for the most part the tourney play is usually played ALL OUT....and that's what I want (to get from an opponent, or see as a spectator).

Voodoo Daddy
05-09-2009, 07:16 AM
I go to tournaments to see/sweat/rail the action.

JAM, kudos for the bald Fedor pic too!!!

JAM
05-09-2009, 07:32 AM
I go to tournaments to see/sweat/rail the action.

JAM, kudos for the bald Fedor pic too!!!

You know Fedor? He's the baddest man on the planet, so they say.

I had a job recently to transcribe some MMA matches. Geezy peezy, I had no idea! :o

I learned a lot of new moves: hammer strike, naked back, rodeo mount, the tap, upkick, et cetera. :grin-square:

Fedor's brother Alexander took on another fighter, and apparently, Fedor's brother is one tough cookie himself! :wink:

After getting to know Fedor and what he's all about, I kind of like the Red Devil! :)

CreeDo
05-09-2009, 08:33 AM
Fedor's a bad motherf@$@#$. He effectively is unbeaten except one sambo match and one bs technicality.

I just watched a really cute (yes, I used that word) exhibition. They put Fedor (the heavyweight sambo champion) against Aoki (the lightweight champion). Obviously this is not a very fair match even if fedor isn't the best fighter in the world (but he is). Lots of grins and clowning around, but also some slams that make you wince =)

But anyway, on the subject, I think tournaments are where it's at. I am a sissy about gambling and I feel kinda bad for the loser. I don't think "wow, 40,000 bucks richer, he can take the year off"... I think "ouch, man, that dude just dropped 40k. That's a huge hit. That really sucks to be him." ...I think this way even if someone has backers and he didn't really lose anything.

I guess that sounds like I think gambling has the bigger risk and therefore should have more tension etc... but tournaments are cooler because it's a different kind of nerves and you're playing for your reputation (or your team's) and not for your wallet. And you have to usually beat several champs, not just one, and it's usually a quicker race, not some brutal slow grind.

JAM
05-09-2009, 08:41 AM
Fedor's a bad motherf@$@#$. He effectively is unbeaten except one sambo match and one bs technicality.

I just watched a really cute (yes, I used that word) exhibition. They put Fedor (the heavyweight sambo champion) against Aoki (the lightweight champion). Obviously this is not a very fair match even if fedor isn't the best fighter in the world (but he is). Lots of grins and clowning around, but also some slams that make you wince =)

I think that's the job I provided the closed-captioning for, the M-1 Challenge! Fedor vs. Aoki, as depicted below. I think Fedor is -- how do they say it? -- HAWT! :o

But anyway, on the subject, I think tournaments are where it's at. I am a sissy about gambling and I feel kinda bad for the loser. I don't think "wow, 40,000 bucks richer, he can take the year off"... I think "ouch, man, that dude just dropped 40k. That's a huge hit. That really sucks to be him." ...I think this way even if someone has backers and he didn't really lose anything.

I guess that sounds like I think gambling has the bigger risk and therefore should have more tension etc... but tournaments are cooler because it's a different kind of nerves and you're playing for your reputation (or your team's) and not for your wallet. And you have to usually beat several champs, not just one, and it's usually a quicker race, not some brutal slow grind.

The thing with me and pool, I can sweat an action match all night long, and the hours go by like minutes. I have no concept of time.

Tournaments, on the other hand, unless the players display excellent skills and game strategies, I can become bored with sitting there for even one hour.

JAM
05-09-2009, 08:41 AM
Duplicate post

Voodoo Daddy
05-09-2009, 08:54 AM
You know Fedor? He's the baddest man on the planet, so they say.

I had a job recently to transcribe some MMA matches. Geezy peezy, I had no idea! :o

I learned a lot of new moves: hammer strike, naked back, rodeo mount, the tap, upkick, et cetera. :grin-square:

Fedor's brother Alexander took on another fighter, and apparently, Fedor's brother is one tough cookie himself! :wink:

After getting to know Fedor and what he's all about, I kind of like the Red Devil! :)

His brother <if Im right> hassa giant backpiece of the grim reaper holding a baby...gotta be a bad man to roll like that!!

Fedor's training ethic is why I like him most, very old school using things like a sledge hammer and a truck tire to strengthen his body...unlike most of the new methods like running with a parachute <eyeroll>. His quiet demeanor is the other thing, its the quiet ones you MUST watch! He reminds me of another russian athlete, Alexander Karelin known as "The Experiment" of Olympic wrestling fame...simply deadly.

JAM
05-09-2009, 08:57 AM
His brother <if Im right> hassa giant backpiece of the grim reaper holding a baby...gotta be a bad man to roll like that!!

Fedor's training ethic is why I like him most, very old school using things like a sledge hammer and a truck tire to strengthen his body...unlike most of the new methods like running with a parachute <eyeroll>. His quiet demeanor is the other thing, its the quiet ones you MUST watch! He reminds me of another russian athlete, Alexander Karelin known as "The Experiment" of Olympic wrestling fame...simply deadly.

Well, I'm definitely a new fan of Fedor. There's just something about him! :o

In Fedor We Trust! :wink:

mouse
05-09-2009, 09:10 AM
I cant hardly play our weekly tourn if there is any kind of action to play. As for watching, I cant stand the tourn thing to watch but would drive to the moon to watch action. The woofing I dont care for but thats pool I guess. I like where you headed with this Jam.

JoeyA
05-09-2009, 09:35 AM
Over the years since my participation on AzBilliards, I have ascertained two distinct schools of thought as it pertains to pool.

There are some who enjoy watching the high-profile competitions, world-class championships, with tournament soldiers giving it their all on a field of green. Mum pool is the norm, and the competitors let their sticks do the talking for them.

On the other side of the coin, the action players betting it as high as the Georgia pine seems to generate a lot of interest, and the best part of the match-up is the barking that takes place beforehand, attracting the attention from all those in attendance.

Movies like "The Hustler" and "The Color of Money" seem to accentuate the action side of pool, and associated with their release dates, pool enjoyed a boom in popularity, so they say.

Me personally, I do enjoy tournaments, when you can cut the air with a knife. You can actually hear a pin drop sometimes, the tension is so thick. The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat is showcased in its truest form, and of course, for the victor, having that championship title of first place means more than the money payouts in some cases.

So I have created yet another pool poll in an effort to see what the climate is today in the pool world. This is a blind poll. So all you lurkers out there, please feel free to cast your vote. :wink:

If you had your choice of two pool happenings to watch, which would it be, the finals of a tournament or an action match for high stakes?


This is like asking a Cajun which he likes best, boiled crawfish or boiled shrimp. It just isn't fair. You've gone over the line JAM. I cannot support this poll. :D

OK, I will answer anyway. :wink:

First, I could not give up either of them and will not.

Secondly and reluctantly I prefer tournaments only because it gives me the opportunity to see more variety and styles of play which is what I enjoy the most. I've always liked variety in everything that I have experienced in my life, whether it be food, drink, work, culture, education and especially people. There is nothing like going to a tournament and sweating the variety and style of international talent. I regret missing this year's Predator International Ten Ball Championship.

With high stake matches it is two warriors competing for the all-mighty dollar and there is nothing in the world like being on the one yard line of two pool athletes playing for the cheese. An all or nothing match only heightens the excitement.

That being said, I would love to see all high stake matches to make a change to include a gift of 10% of the match stake to the fallen warrior.

JoeyA

ShootingArts
05-09-2009, 10:24 AM
. . . That being said, I would love to see all high stake matches to make a change to include a gift of 10% of the match stake to the fallen warrior.

JoeyA

Joey,

When it is a sporting event I agree that a guaranteed walking stick would be nice. Ten percent of what each person bet is reasonable, not sure if that is what you meant. Ten percent of the match stake is a bit much, you are kicking him 1/5th of his money back.

On the other hand when it is a grudge match there is nothing like leaving the other guy busted and disgusted! :grin:

Hu

racefornine
05-09-2009, 12:44 PM
50-50 on the poll maybe thats why the Derby is so popular.

Cameron Smith
05-09-2009, 01:50 PM
If I was going to attend the event, I would prefer a tournament since I would get see a lot of different match ups and a lot of different top players. It appeases my 15 second attention span.

yobagua
05-09-2009, 02:12 PM
Im going to sayIMO a tournament match. The pressure of 2 pros within a tight structure having to win or pack your bags is very high. Its a highly disciplined format. In a cash game depending on your Bankroll you can afford to play looser or take more chances or come back another day. But in a race to, lets say 11 in a tourney, a pro cannot afford to make one mistake. For me this is the ultimate in sportsmanship.
Of course I, like many others, enjoy two opponents who are evenly match playing for the cash particularly if they are colorful characters. Always enjoyed watching RA, Keither, Efren, Alex P, etc. You couldnt get me to sit through Thorsten playing Mika for the cash but a tournament might be another thing.

JAM
05-09-2009, 02:24 PM
Im going to sayIMO a tournament match. The pressure of 2 pros within a tight structure having to win or pack your bags is very high. Its a highly disciplined format. In a cash game depending on your Bankroll you can afford to play looser or take more chances or come back another day. But in a race to, lets say 11 in a tourney, a pro cannot afford to make one mistake. For me this is the ultimate in sportsmanship.
Of course I, like many others, enjoy two opponents who are evenly match playing for the cash particularly if they are colorful characters. Always enjoyed watching RA, Keither, Efren, Alex P, etc. You couldnt get me to sit through Thorsten playing Mika for the cash but a tournament might be another thing.

Where have you been, Mr. Yobagua? I haven't read you in a while. Good to see you posting! :)

Looks like the "Action" is in the lead, at least at the time of this writing!

Pii
05-09-2009, 03:44 PM
Doesn't matter I just like watching good players play.

JAM
05-09-2009, 03:44 PM
Tournaments are pulling out a wee bit at the time of this writing. However, it's looking like it will be neck and neck for a while.

I do believe there is a difference in watching pool LIVE and watching a RECORDED match, whether it is action or tournaments.

For some reason, watching it LIVE is more fun.

I have "On Demand" on my TV, and I can catch up on TV shows on the weekend if I am busy during the week with work, but it's not the same as watching it LIVE.

I do notice that when there are LIVE action matches happening, the participation on the MAIN FORUM is not as busy as it normally is, as most folks are sweating the ACTION threads live. :wink:

yobagua
05-09-2009, 03:57 PM
Where have you been, Mr. Yobagua? I haven't read you in a while. Good to see you posting! :)

Looks like the "Action" is in the lead, at least at the time of this writing!

Hey JAM. Like you I was getting tired of all the animosity and bile. Not so much in others but what I was turning into. I met a lot of good people and wanted to emulate them so I thought Id stay away for a while. But your thought provoking question made me want to answer. Thanks.

RenoRex
05-09-2009, 07:07 PM
I enjoy good Tournament play more than gambling sessions.

I normally stay 2-3 nights during large Tournaments and really enjoy speculating
on upcoming matches between my favorite players.

I'm too old, fat, blind, crippled, and crazy to gamble serious money anymore, but
the "old dayz" hold a host of fond memories for me.

JoeyA
05-09-2009, 11:25 PM
Joey,

When it is a sporting event I agree that a guaranteed walking stick would be nice. Ten percent of what each person bet is reasonable, not sure if that is what you meant. Ten percent of the match stake is a bit much, you are kicking him 1/5th of his money back.

On the other hand when it is a grudge match there is nothing like leaving the other guy busted and disgusted! :grin:

Hu

Yeah, yeah, ten percent of what he bets. 20% is way too much for a walking stick for high stake pool, imo.

JoeyA

JAM
05-10-2009, 02:44 AM
Yeah, yeah, ten percent of what he bets. 20% is way too much for a walking stick for high stake pool, imo.

JoeyA

One tournament at Q-Masters in Norfolk -- the year was 2002, I think -- was called the Spring Open or something like that. Keith was playing excellent in the tournament, staying in the winner's bracket all the way to the finals. All the best players, many of whom I did not know at that time, were in the house. :)

One shot I will NEVER forget, Keith was playing against a tall player named Ron Parks on the winner's side for the hot seat, I think it was. It was hill-hill, and Keith missed the 8-rock, leaving Ron a straight-in shot on the 8. The cueball was about 5 inches behind the 8, and both of them were frozen on the rail. I was standing with Billy Stephens, a well-known Virginia player. I told Billy that I knew we were going to lose, staring at that easy duck, but Billy said, "Not so fast, Jennie. This is not as easy as it looks. He could miss it," and much to my surprise, Ron Parks did miss it, leaving Keith an easy out.

Earlier in the tournament, Keith defeated a North Carolinian named Michael Coltrain, knocking him to the B side of the chart. Then Michael fought his way to the finals, only to face Keith again. This was the first time I was introduced to an extended race for the finals as opposed to the "true" double elimination format where the B-side player has to beat the A-side player twice. Coltrain won. I was happy to see Keith come in second, but I have to admit that I was bummed to learn the reality of this one-extended-match format for a double-elmination tournament. :angry:

Late that night, Keith was feeling absolutely no pain, enjoying the pool room. We were sweating the action, and Keith, though I did not know it, was hoping to catch him some action. :wink:

He and another North Carolinian named Sam Monday started barking, and Sam had a whole committee of backers, to include Michael Coltrain. They wanted to play for 2 dimes: a 12-ahead game with Keith spotting Sam the wild 8 in 9-ball. Keith then came and asked me to give him back his tournament winnings, which was snugged safely in my purse, so that he could gamble with this Sam Monday. I didn't want to give it up. We were stuck for the trip, entry fee, hotel, travel, food, et cetera. :(

The game began, and at one point, that coin on the table moved only in one direction, with Sam Monday 10 games ahead. It was late, like 3:00 in the morning. All of his committee backers were hooping and hollering, rooting him in. And the only cheerleader Keith had was me. I saw the writing on the wall and realized we were 2 games away from losing our dough. I thought, heck, why not enjoy myself. :grin-square:

Every time Keith made a good job, like Sam Monday's backers, I began to cheer, "Good shot, Keith. Way to go. What a shooter, what a guy." I was actually beginning to have fun, even though we were stuck. And then it happened. It was like the stuff you see only once in a blue moon. Keith caught a gear, and he began to win game after game after game, one right after the other. He not only got back to even, but he defeated Sam Monday 12 games in no time. It was a 22-game swing. :)

I was so excited, but at this time, Sam had a long face, unscrewd his stick, and went into the bathroom. Coltrain gave Keith the cheese, and Keith then went into the bathroom. When he came out of the bathroom, Keith handed me the dough to tuck away safely in my purse. I counted it and said, "Hey, wait a minute. We're $200 short. There's $200 missing, Keith." He said, "I know. I gave Sam a walking stick. If it wasn't for Sam, I wouldn't have gotten any action. Jennie, you're never supposed to leave a pool player broke."

Today, I understand the jelly roll concept, but not all players do that today. In fact, Keith has given away more walking sticks than he's received since I've been with him! Maybe that's good thing. They call it paying it forward, and what goes around may, indeed, come back. :)

Picture of Sam Monday!

deadstroke7
05-10-2009, 05:43 AM
Another great story. I enjoy your posts about the game.

As far as the posts, for watching -- I must say -- Now that Iowa seems to be hopping in the last week or two, I like watching the ACTION.

For playing, I must like tournament play. For the entry fee you can play the same players that I couldn't afford to match up with. Good for my game, easy on the pocketbook.

So, for me, Action for watching (my vote) and Tourny for playing.

JAM
05-10-2009, 05:51 AM
Another great story. I enjoy your posts about the game.

As far as the posts, for watching -- I must say -- Now that Iowa seems to be hopping in the last week or two, I like watching the ACTION.

For playing, I must like tournament play. For the entry fee you can play the same players that I couldn't afford to match up with. Good for my game, easy on the pocketbook.

So, for me, Action for watching (my vote) and Tourny for playing.

I'll bet you there's a lot of players out there who feel exactly like you do.

I love Iowa. If I ever move, that is one State that I would consider moving to. The genuinely nice people, the breaktaking landscape with those blue skies and pristine green corn fields, there ain't nothing better. I could retire in Iowa and live happily ever after, I tell you. And if there's pool action going on, then that's all the better! :thumbup:

Watching anything LIVE seems to be the best for me. I really enjoy the Orioles in baseball, and when I'm watching them play live, it is so exciting. I don't think I would get the same satisfaction watching an Orioles baseball game that was pre-recorded.

Pre-recorded tournament matches, however, that Accu-Stats offers are fun. Even though I know the outcome, I can pick and choose which match I want to watch, as opposed to watching a kazillion hours of tournament matches.

Today, people -- well, most people -- don't have an extra four, five, six, or seven hours to watch pool on TV. However, that said, I'd still watch pool four, five, six, or seven ours LIVE if it was an action match in my local pool room! :o

In other words, I think I would be more prone to watching LIVE pool if I was there in person, up front and close, than I would a live pool match on TV.

JAM
05-10-2009, 09:41 AM
I cannot believe how close this vote is. I had thought one side would be much higher than the other.

Interesting that it's about 50/50 at the time of this writing, with a very small lead for tournaments! :)