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real irish
05-09-2009, 11:00 PM
What game would draw the most viewers on tv ? I believe that 8-ball on bar tables would be the best. Everybody that plays or has played pool understands how 8-ball is played. The number of players that could win a big tournament of 8-ball is probably in the range of 200 or more . People would be able to root for all kinds of unknown players and think through the rack with the players. Alternate break and no 8-ball on the break with a race to 7. Any thoughts out there ?

snipershot
05-10-2009, 12:37 AM
I dont think that would work. I love 8 ball, but it has the potential to take a long time to finish the match. I mostly play 9 ball, so I like to watch 9 ball. I play 8 ball, one pocket, and 9 ball, and I have seen other games too, but in my opinion, 9 ball is the best suited game for tv. not too fast, not too slow, and easy as hell to understand.


Joe

ribdoner
05-10-2009, 12:43 AM
Gotta be something UNPREDICTABLE and the VIEWERS have insights the PLAYERS don't.

Been thinking about this for a while and germination is progressing as i type.:)

The_Ski_Mask
05-10-2009, 12:48 AM
I like the bar box idea. a strong box player can beat any pro at any given time. I'm not saying the strong box player is loving it but, in a short race to 5 or 7...in a tourney format there would be a lot of cinderella stories! would probably raise the interest in pool. :thumbup:

Drew
05-10-2009, 01:05 AM
I dont think that would work. I love 8 ball, but it has the potential to take a long time to finish the match. I mostly play 9 ball, so I like to watch 9 ball. I play 8 ball, one pocket, and 9 ball, and I have seen other games too, but in my opinion, 9 ball is the best suited game for tv. not too fast, not too slow, and easy as hell to understand.


Joe

But you're not the audience. Most people don't understand the rules of 9-ball let alone the intricacies of the game. Everybody in the country knows how to play 8-ball, and most play it on bar tables or 8 footers in their home. It's the game most people can relate to which would equate to more viewers. People watching would then get the idea, "Hey! I can do that too!" which means more players in the rooms.

Snooker is huge in the UK and 9-ball is huge in S.E. Asia. Unfortunately, 9-ball and straight pool have already proven unsuccessful in the US...You know what they say about trying the same thing and expecting different results? One-pocket is quite possibly the most boring game to watch for people not familiar with it. I think that would be absolutely disastrous on TV.

Personally, I would love to see a lot more bar table 8-ball action. I like watching difficult patterns and tight position played by the best. There's enough big table 9-ball recorded to last a lifetime. There's only so many times you can watch long tough shots before getting bored. I hate to say it, but there's not too much to learn from watching 9-ball...you can either make the shots, or you can't.

Just keep in mind, pool on TV is for the viewers not the players.

poolplayer2093
05-10-2009, 01:14 AM
balkline................... the ratings would go through the roof

softshot
05-10-2009, 02:24 AM
you want people to watch???

ok...

enough of the silent match .. lets see the pro's talk some shit during the match....

enough with the safety's...

I know why... you know why...

joe blow at home wants you to play an exciting shot...and make the ball.. kick two rails at the bank shot..and sink it.,,, that kinda stuff sells tickets and airtime

pool played well looks simple. and boring.. you don't impress anyone making shots they themselves ...can make..sometimes..

( I know I know getting shape is the whole game I GET IT!!!)

but if you want to sell the game...

make the pro's go for it.... like joe banger does....

I don't know a way to implement that.. and still have a fair skillful game..

but that IS the gap we have to bridge to get pool on tv in america with decent ratings..

softshot
05-10-2009, 02:41 AM
how about this rule..

Failure to sink a legal object ball.. on your stroke... results in ball in hand for the incoming player...

that creates a go for it or lose game... bet you'd see A LOT more tv friendly shots per match....

I'm not even saying that's the best thing for the game... I'm saying that's how you sell tickets to the bangers... and create an advertising base outside the pool industry..

Cameron Smith
05-10-2009, 08:02 AM
What game would draw the most viewers on tv ? I believe that 8-ball on bar tables would be the best. Everybody that plays or has played pool understands how 8-ball is played. The number of players that could win a big tournament of 8-ball is probably in the range of 200 or more . People would be able to root for all kinds of unknown players and think through the rack with the players. Alternate break and no 8-ball on the break with a race to 7. Any thoughts out there ?

I agree with the exception of the bar box. Your average banger doesn't know that tables vary in size, and even if they did I don't believe that it would have much effect on viewership. To most people, pool is pool, they don't know what difference varying sizes of tables make.

macguy
05-10-2009, 08:04 AM
What game would draw the most viewers on tv ? I believe that 8-ball on bar tables would be the best. Everybody that plays or has played pool understands how 8-ball is played. The number of players that could win a big tournament of 8-ball is probably in the range of 200 or more . People would be able to root for all kinds of unknown players and think through the rack with the players. Alternate break and no 8-ball on the break with a race to 7. Any thoughts out there ?

None, pool is a subculture with a limited appeal. Probably the trick shot stuff may appeal to the largest demographic and that is not even a pool game. If every pool fan tuned it would still not be a large enough audience to attract sponsors. Pools only future is on the net. As this technology improves this will be where we will watch pool.

Pushout
05-10-2009, 08:15 AM
None, pool is a subculture with a limited appeal. Probably the trick shot stuff may appeal to the largest demographic and that is not even a pool game. If every pool fan tuned it would still not be a large enough audience to attract sponsors. Pools only future is on the net. As this technology improves this will be where we will watch pool.

I have to say, I pretty much agree with this. The subculture has grown, to some extent, but not as much as some newer players think. And, a lot of the older players disagree with a lot of the newer ones about the appeal of the game.

IamMark
05-10-2009, 08:34 AM
None, pool is a subculture with a limited appeal. Probably the trick shot stuff may appeal to the largest demographic and that is not even a pool game. If every pool fan tuned it would still not be a large enough audience to attract sponsors. Pools only future is on the net. As this technology improves this will be where we will watch pool.

I agree with macguy as well. If you look at ESPN (not ESPN Classic), they pretty much only show trick shot competition and speed pool ocassionally. Of course, you have to look at which country you are talking about. I think in the states, trick shot gets the most viewers. The general public understand it and its much more exciting for people who know nothing about pool. In Asia, like Taiwan and Philippines, 9-ball is definitely the game to watch. The yearly tournaments are 9-ball and they actually broadcast them on the local sports channels.

CreeDo
05-10-2009, 08:44 AM
It's already pretty well-known what games draw viewers to TV.

As pool players we love to bítch about the stuff they show on TV, but ESPN shows that stuff because it's figured out what the average viewer can tolerate without getting bored... not because it's in the dark about what games are popular and interesting to the more hardcore pool players.

That is why we see tons of trick shots, some seven ball, speed pool, some 9 ball, and occasional doubles with very hot female players.

There is no eight ball (even though it's still the most widely played game in america) because nobody wants to see johnny pick lint and swap balls out of pockets while he visualizes 20 different possible ways to solve clusters (and then re-evaluates after each shot).

If you want to know the best type of game for the ratings just look at what's already on there. Sadly that's as good as it gets.

nksmfamjp
05-10-2009, 08:50 AM
My idea how to make this work. . .Pool on TV should change to a boxing format with TV timeouts. Basically, it should be 8-ball, basically BCA rules, but allow 8 on the break wins and winner breaks. NEW TV RULE: 3 turns at the table without pocketing a ball results in ball in hand for opponent. Additionally, players should be miked and encouraged to talk. Matches should be grudge matched with money on the line. Tournaments would be used to determine player rankings. TV time would be grudge matches. Players would come with matching sponsers.

Can you imagine. . .Reyes vs. Shane Van Boening Reyes brings Toyota to the table and SVB brings Ford to the table. Each backer throws in $200k + the sponser, Ticketmaster matches (has TV/venue/DVD rights) with $400k. Sponser + player split all winnings according to agreement.

Maybe race to 9, 8 ball with the above rules? Ideally, this would add trash talking, a game many people think they know how to play and big money like boxing. Maybe PPV?

This idea came to me watching Fats vs. Mosconi matches!

junkbond
05-10-2009, 09:27 AM
Considering the viewing habits of the typical American, and the sad fact that the networks want huge audiences (more than the pool-playing culture can deliver), I suggest Full Contact Eight Ball, broadcast directly from a biker bar.

PKM
05-10-2009, 09:50 AM
I still don't understand why those trick shot competitions are (relatively) popular, so I have no idea -- I can appreciate a good trick shot, but the way those competitions work, the shot has to be just difficult enough so your opponent will miss. The result is a lot of uninteresting shots.

I would think 8-ball would be more popular too, but who knows?

Tennesseejoe
05-10-2009, 01:01 PM
"It ain't the game---It's the commentary". That's all there is to it.

Majic
05-10-2009, 01:21 PM
balkline................... the ratings would go through the roof

Please explain how balkline billiards is played. I have been looking for info about this game.
:thumbup::dance:

Majic
05-10-2009, 02:02 PM
I would watch scantilly clad women holding sticks and putting the balls into the holes with eyes wide open.:woot:

poolplayer2093
05-10-2009, 02:40 PM
Please explain how balkline billiards is played. I have been looking for info about this game.
:thumbup::dance:
http://www.usapoolhalls.com/billiards/balkline/

i've only seen one video of it being played but i liked it. i couldn't find the video or i'd have posted it for you

i guess maybe to increase ratings they could show ring games.......... it's really hard to say. people that like pool really like it but people that don't dig it have no interest in watching it. thats something that i don't think can be changed

Majic
05-10-2009, 02:51 PM
http://www.usapoolhalls.com/billiards/balkline/

i've only seen one video of it being played but i liked it. i couldn't find the video or i'd have posted it for you

i guess maybe to increase ratings they could show ring games.......... it's really hard to say. people that like pool really like it but people that don't dig it have no interest in watching it. thats something that i don't think can be changed
I saw an interview with Efren on inside pool, and he mentioned that he grew up playing balkline, and I have never seen it played.

Mr441
05-10-2009, 02:59 PM
Please explain how balkline billiards is played. I have been looking for info about this game.
:thumbup::dance:

Balkline is IMO the most difficult cue game. It's played on a billiard table with a grid drawn on the table so you have several boxes drawn. You have to make a billiard (just making the cueball hit the other two balls) but you can only make two consecutive billiards in the box you're in and then you have to make a ball (any ball) leave the box on your next billiard. At the highest level the game is unbelievably skillfull. Frederic Caudron is far and away the best at it, he's something to see. Sometimes when he gets slightly out of line, he'll send one object ball three rails around the table and make it come to rest with the other two balls. I've seen pool players try this and they look just like any other total novice player. It takes yerars to really become somewhat proficient at.

Rich93
05-10-2009, 03:32 PM
Please explain how balkline billiards is played. I have been looking for info about this game.
:thumbup::dance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkline_and_straight_rail

The poster was joking. Balkline is borrrrrrring. It was replaced by three cushion because it became too easy for the masters.

Cameron Smith
05-10-2009, 04:03 PM
On it's current path, pool will most certainly not become a tv sport. But there isn't any credible evidence that it doesn't have potential. The public will never unanimously decide to start setting their digital recorders to capture pool events, it just doesn't work that way. But it seems as though the pool industry hopes it will.

Pool is already a popular game. Millions of people play it each week. Millions more play it on regular or semi-regular basis. We don't need all 60 million people in the US to watch it regularily, even just a sixth at a time would be decent ratings.

What the game desperately needs is some good marketing. The only organisations that I am aware of that try to bring in new players and fans are the leagues.

Cameron Smith
05-10-2009, 04:05 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkline_and_straight_rail

The poster was joking. Balkline is borrrrrrring. It was replaced by three cushion because it became too easy for the masters.

That was straight rail. Balkline is too easy for top players in the same way 14.1 is too easy for John Schmidt and Thorsten Hohmann. Though I agree some may find it less interesting than 3 cushion

macguy
05-10-2009, 04:28 PM
That was straight rail. Balkline is too easy for top players in the same way 14.1 is too easy for John Schmidt and Thorsten Hohmann. Though I agree some may find it less interesting than 3 cushion

In straight rail they would run 300 to 500 like it was nothing. When they introduced Balkline it didn't take long before they were back running hundreds again. Honestly, it is hard to believe that either game had an audience. I watched straight rail played in Europe in the 90's at a world tournament. It was almost unbearable. The funniest part is, as easy as a pro makes straight rail look as they run hundreds, the average player has a hard time running 10. Try it you will see. Years ago I saw a good straight rail player giving some very good three cushion players 125 to 10 and never lose a game.

CreeDo
05-10-2009, 06:09 PM
The only thing that could be more boring than balkline might be line-up straight pool.

I guess it's about time someone linked to it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msFGy5_h7YU

Cameron Smith
05-10-2009, 06:21 PM
In straight rail they would run 300 to 500 like it was nothing. When they introduced Balkline it didn't take long before they were back running hundreds again. Honestly, it is hard to believe that either game had an audience. I watched straight rail played in Europe in the 90's at a world tournament. It was almost unbearable. The funniest part is, as easy as a pro makes straight rail look as they run hundreds, the average player has a hard time running 10. Try it you will see. Years ago I saw a good straight rail player giving some very good three cushion players 125 to 10 and never lose a game.

I meant that straight rail was too easy for them, not balkline. Yes they run hundreds in balkline but not with the same consistency. Personally I find it to be a beautiful game to watch.

I've never played on a billiard table, but I've dabbled in english billiards. Even in a perfect nursing position, I am lucky to manage more than 10 cannons.

Worminator
05-10-2009, 06:30 PM
how about this rule..

Failure to sink a legal object ball.. on your stroke... results in ball in hand for the incoming player...

that creates a go for it or lose game... bet you'd see A LOT more tv friendly shots per match....



I actually like this idea. Believe me, it would rather see a well executed safety than a jump shot any day, but the average viewer (non-pool player) is going to get bored with safety play very quickly. The failure to pocket a ball resulting in BIH rule would certainly speed up the game.

It seems to me like there was a format similar to this at one point... I just can't remember what it was.

thebigdog
05-10-2009, 06:35 PM
I think high stakes 10-Ball ring games would make for great TV. With no safety play it would keep the interest of the public who is not seriously into pool. The gambling aspect could spark the interest of the general public.

TXsouthpaw
05-10-2009, 06:44 PM
8 ball. Its the game everyone has played at least once in their lives. 9 balls been on tv for years and still no one watches it. 8 ball should at least be given a chance. If it dont work then it dont work, it cant hurt thats for sure.

Majic
05-10-2009, 06:58 PM
What game would draw the most viewers on tv ? I believe that 8-ball on bar tables would be the best. Everybody that plays or has played pool understands how 8-ball is played. The number of players that could win a big tournament of 8-ball is probably in the range of 200 or more . People would be able to root for all kinds of unknown players and think through the rack with the players. Alternate break and no 8-ball on the break with a race to 7. Any thoughts out there ?
I think team pool like the world cup could be a hit because the audience could conceivably span the globe. And the game(s) should be a mixture of whatever is popular in the countries involved. It would be fun to see all the great players from around the world.

JustPlay
05-10-2009, 07:32 PM
The majority of pool players play in leagues on week nights work 40+ hours weeks and spend weekends with their families. They have little or no interest in watching outdated or pre-recorded pool matches that are boring with boring announcers telling them that a long straight in shot took years to master. If Billy Incardona, Buddy Hall, Grady Matthews or my personal favorite Danny Deliberto were doing the announcing, they would tell it like it is and provide fun entertainment for the viewing audience!

Sorry, but we would rather play pool than watch it on tv. :boring2:

nksmfamjp
05-11-2009, 03:11 AM
. . . that are boring with boring announcers telling them that a long straight in shot took years to master. . . .

That is why it would be nice to mic the players and have them call the shots. Sort of a little showmanship from them. Then maybe an announcer of quality to fill in for a player who is more quiet.

memikey
05-11-2009, 04:47 AM
If the 30 year or so history of trying to twist and mould English 8 ball into something that tv audiences will be drawn to is anything to go by there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of rule changes or 'more open play' ever making tournament 8 ball a game (any equipment, any rules) that will draw tv audiences.

Indeed there were higher television audiences for English 8 ball back in the 80's when the rules meant that excruiciatingly long drawn out safety battles were commonplace than there are now when the current rules basically favour trying to break and run almost every rack.

Everything is relative of course and the audiences were, are and always will be less than pathetically small. It is a changing world and there is far too much competition for viewers time, money and attention both on and off tv.

8 ball pool could only ever become a tv 'draw' if it sold it's soul to the cue sport equivalent of "wraslin" moguls. Larger than life goodies and baddies, river boat gamblers and pretend lay preachers, undertakers and ninjas, etc etc etc, fully dressed and kitted out for the cartoon caricature figure they represent. Grudge matches involving forfeits especially designed for the losers dislikes and phobias and money matches etc.....all with moves and results fully choreographed in the green room before they come out to play.

Nobody on this site has any potential interest in such a bastardised circus of course, unless they stood to make a very healthy wedge out of it (we are all pool players after all lol)....but then again no regular on this site actually has the slightest relevance to potential tv audiences for pool in a commercial sense, we are but a merest fraction of what is needed and many of us are already converted.

Apocalypse2017
05-11-2009, 05:52 AM
get some famous hollywood stars like poker and play 8 ball partners.


:eek:

JoeW
05-11-2009, 06:48 AM
10-Ball Rail Pool

Ten-Ball Rail pool would be a good test of skill that would attract viewers. In this game the cue ball has to touch a rail after the object ball has been struck. Rotational games take much of the luck factor out of the game and thus require more skill. Requiring the cue ball to strike a rail after the shot removes many of the boring little shots that are played in a match to maintain control. The viewers can easily follow the game with better lighting such as yesterday’s WPA matches on ESPN. I think this would be exciting to watch because players would be required to take more risks.

Another feature that might keep the matches from getting too one sided is to score for each ball made, similar to 14.1. In a race to 11 there are 154 points available. One point for each ball and 5 points for the game (last ball). The first person to score 77 points wins. Lighting is the key to any rotational game so the viewer can follow what is going on.

Another way to do it is to play for one hour, like a football game. This allows for commercials with 15 minute quarters. Using designated pockets, half the pockets for each player mgiht add to the game and viewer appeal. swap side of the table for each quarter.

Johnnyt
05-11-2009, 07:17 AM
I think bar box 8-ball might have a following on TV. Like what has been said in a number of posts here, millions play or have played on bar boxes. Also I think you will find more colorful good players on bar boxes. There has to be some talk from the players to off-set the boredom of runouts for the mainstream to stay the coarse.

Back in the 1950's there was a game on TV once a week and tables in the bars of NY and NJ, and maybe other states called Q-Ball. The tables were 3'x6'. and you shot from one end. It had holes in the slate with point numbers from 10 to 200. There was a wooden mushroom in the middle of the table that when knocked down cost you whatever you made so far on that run. Good players banked, caromed, kissed shots, and comboed balls in the numbered holes.

Teams of four players played other bars in an area with the top team from one area playing the top team from another area on TV each week. The same could be done with bar boxes today. Johnnyt

Johnnyt
05-11-2009, 07:36 AM
I was going to post a picture of a Q-Ball table but can't find one on the net. I know a company in Washington State made an electronic version with scoreboard and sounds. The kids would love it I think and could get them interested in the big pool tables. If someone finds it please post picture of it or give me the link and I will post it. Thank you. Johnnyt

tom mcgonagle
05-11-2009, 07:44 AM
The choice of games isn't the problem. The problem is pool does have the flair, the dramatics, the athletes and action other games provide. It doesn't have the excitement of an all-in bet on a poker table. We don't have dancing girls, running around, scantly dressed, that we can show the world when things aren't as exciting, as the networks want them to be. We certainly don't have a Tiger Woods or Lebron James, superstars, that are well known by all walks of people in every day life. Golf found a way to make the game more exciting to watch. They placed cameras all over the course and if a player hit a great shot they showed it after it happened.

Pool had it's best chance for popularity after the Color of Money movie. There was no organization or leadership. A few people, with limited insight, were our connection to the networks. They took the best deals they could make for themselves, with little concern for the game itself.

I could watch, great pool, morning, noon, and night. I know I'm not the only one. The problem is, the networks don't know it. Call them up. Start petitions. Do something, because what we're doing now, isn't working.


________________________________

This could make a difference,possibly a movie.

Check it out!

tommcgonaglerightoncue.com

trustyrusty
05-11-2009, 11:33 AM
strip 9 ball with "The Girls Next Door"!!! Male (and some female) viewers glued to the screen just itching for them to miss.....MISS! MISS DARN IT!

Rich93
05-11-2009, 01:58 PM
If the 30 year or so history of trying to twist and mould English 8 ball into something that tv audiences will be drawn to is anything to go by there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of rule changes or 'more open play' ever making tournament 8 ball a game (any equipment, any rules) that will draw tv audiences.

Indeed there were higher television audiences for English 8 ball back in the 80's when the rules meant that excruiciatingly long drawn out safety battles were commonplace than there are now when the current rules basically favour trying to break and run almost every rack.

Everything is relative of course and the audiences were, are and always will be less than pathetically small. It is a changing world and there is far too much competition for viewers time, money and attention both on and off tv.

8 ball pool could only ever become a tv 'draw' if it sold it's soul to the cue sport equivalent of "wraslin" moguls. Larger than life goodies and baddies, river boat gamblers and pretend lay preachers, undertakers and ninjas, etc etc etc, fully dressed and kitted out for the cartoon caricature figure they represent. Grudge matches involving forfeits especially designed for the losers dislikes and phobias and money matches etc.....all with moves and results fully choreographed in the green room before they come out to play.

Nobody on this site has any potential interest in such a bastardised circus of course, unless they stood to make a very healthy wedge out of it (we are all pool players after all lol)....but then again no regular on this site actually has the slightest relevance to potential tv audiences for pool in a commercial sense, we are but a merest fraction of what is needed and many of us are already converted.

I think this is a pretty wise post. It takes a lot more than finding the right game. Except for the obvious snoozers (one pocket, rotation), they've all been tried.

center pocket
05-11-2009, 02:29 PM
I think bank pool would peak interest in the average veiwer. Most bangers have no concept of a bank shot, especially multi rail banks.

Big Perm
05-11-2009, 04:24 PM
Old-school rotation 5-10-15 ring game.....5 talented pro players, all offense, no safeties....just hit the lowest ball on the table....you'd see incredible jump shots, banks, combinations, caroms, position play.....and at the end of each rack, each player pays $100 per money ball....fresh, clean, $100 bills right out on the table....it would be nice to see 5 pros, all mic-ed up, cutting up, having a good time, making incredible shots and showing off.....maybe Efren, Jeanette, Shane, Allison, and Schmidt....

I'd watch that for hours....:D

More importantly, it's a game bangers can also play, enjoy, and even gamble with small stakes....I think it would be a big hit...

ceebee
05-11-2009, 05:29 PM
What do you folks think about an interfacing game between the players & the audience.

The players have their traditional bet on the game, but the audience has a bet (similar to Kelly Pool) on the outcome . The first player to make a ball gets $100 from the player who has the corresponding number PILL, if the player making the ball has the corresponding Pill number, he gets $100 from every player at the table. All of the members in the audience, who have that player or that ball number, get a piece of the paramutual Pie.

What do you think...? More rules need to be added I know, but the audience will really get to sweat a game of Pool, (15 Ball Rotation Pay-Ball)... some will get a reward, some will suffer some agony.

Matt90
05-11-2009, 09:21 PM
I would love to see how well it would go over for each player to have
a coach or corner man sorta like boxing . 8 ball or 9 ball .

memikey
05-11-2009, 10:04 PM
I was going to post a picture of a Q-Ball table but can't find one on the net. I know a company in Washington State made an electronic version with scoreboard and sounds. The kids would love it I think and could get them interested in the big pool tables. If someone finds it please post picture of it or give me the link and I will post it. Thank you. Johnnyt

Not sure Johnny but think you might be referring to a type of table/game that is based upon a game which is called "Bar Billiards" in Uk. Lots of pubs, especially in the rural English countryside, still have these tables though you won't find many in town centres in England and practically none in Wales or Scotland. Lots of tables in mainland Europe. Find it very boring personally but it passes the time if there's nothing else available.

There's some info/photos in this link...

tradgames.org.uk/games/Bar-Billiards.htm

memikey
05-11-2009, 10:08 PM
I would love to see how well it would go over for each player to have
a coach or corner man sorta like boxing . 8 ball or 9 ball .

That's already been done as well, including throughout the IPT tourneys at which, despite multi million dollar prize funds, the audiences were pathetic. Tickets couldn't be given away and recordings broadcast on tv drew tv audiences of as many as a few hundred lol.