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Mr441
05-18-2009, 10:04 PM
Well, seeing as we've recently covered the best 9 ball and one pocket players lets see who everyone thinks is the best 14.1 player alive, forget the past because we can argue all day about Mosconi and Greenleaf. Who's the best right now?

I pick Thorsten Hohmann.

JXMIKE
05-18-2009, 11:12 PM
Well, seeing as we've recently covered the best 9 ball and one pocket players lets see who everyone thinks is the best 14.1 player alive, forget the past because we can argue all day about Mosconi and Greenleaf. Who's the best right now?

I pick Thorsten Hohmann.


i agree, now think about this hes only 29 years old imo he has the greatest chance to beat mosconi's run.

1.Thorsten hohmann
2.john schmidt
3.danny harriman

Bobby
05-18-2009, 11:24 PM
Thorsten Hohmann for sure, with Souquet in second.

I'd rate them as follows:

1-Hohmann
2-Souquet
3-Pagulayan
4-Harriman
5-Schmidt
6-Ortmann
7-Feijen
8-Engert
9-Immonen
10-Robles

ForumGhost516
05-18-2009, 11:25 PM
1. HOHMAN
2. Souquet
thats it thats all you need. lol

Masayoshi
05-19-2009, 02:05 AM
1. Min-Wai Chin
2. Thorsten Hohmann
3. Ralph Souquet

mair23
05-19-2009, 04:56 AM
For me Thorsten should rank at Number One.
I saw many Europeans play realy fantastic Straight Pool, but what he does
some years ago in the European Championships i will never forget.

On the EC we play "only" run to 125 and he managed to run it in one inning.
I know thatīs nothing, but to tell you after he does it in the Quater Finals,
that he will do it again right now, and then do it again after a 15 minute break,
was awesome to see.

And to top that, he ran it in the Final again - Fantastic and unbelievable ! :thumbup:

Quaters, Semis and Final - each time 125 out !
He has to do the opening shot two times, so it happened to be 5 innings,
but you know, 375 in three playable innings is something i will remember my whole life.
And dontīf forget he told me he will do it again after the Quaters !! :eek:

mair23

mair23
05-19-2009, 05:17 AM
One more thing to say.
I know there are some guys out there who run the 375 in one inning, not in three.
But i think there should be a big difference if somebody does it in training or in a show match.
Thorsten runs these three 125s in a big tournament, you know.
And for me to do that in the EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS, in the last three rounds is unbeatable. WOW ! :thumbup:

mair23

sfleinen
05-19-2009, 05:27 AM
Folks:

I would have to say Niels is the best straight pool player right now. I watched the World Straight Pool Championships last year, and out of all the players, Niels seemed to be the one player that:

1. Had the most consistency; the most series of long runs back-to-back, match after match.

2. Was the least affected by the environment and playing conditions, playing conditions of which gave other well-known players "fits" with ball skidding, etc.

I certainly like his pattern play, and his inherent ability to solve problems on the table early on, not waiting for those problems to bite him in the petut later on. Although this is Niels first major win in straight pool, and it might be premature to call him the "best straight pool player alive" right now, I have a very optimistic feeling (a premonition?) that we're going to be seeing a lot more of him in the winners circle at straight pool events, and he'll prove just how much of a straight pool monster he is.

(Blackjack, your thoughts on this?)

-Sean

mair23
05-19-2009, 05:35 AM
I have to say Niels is my Number 2, too.
But only one big title in straight pool is not all.
It seems that for most of you a European Championship is not a big title, but it is !
Niels won the Straight Pool EC in 2002, 2003 and 2004 - that is a "Three Peat" - Great ! :thumbup:
And then he won it again i think in 2007, so no doubt he is one of the best out there, too.
And you are right, i love his pattern in straight pool.

mair23

Johnnyt
05-19-2009, 05:44 AM
I would love to see a tournament with races to 500 with about 8 in round robin style of the players mentioned above. Maybe two tourmenaments a year like that. I think that might give us some idea who is the best. I believe they are all going to be very close match ups. Johnnyt

Fast Lenny
05-19-2009, 05:52 AM
"You got that wrong mister, I am."


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l179/zonavy/hustler_lg-01.jpg

metallicane
05-19-2009, 05:59 AM
I'm going with Schmidt then Hohmann, Niels, and Harriman. But Sigel did beat Schmidt last year;).

The Sigel win not withstanding, I do believe Schmidt is the best 14.1 player alive today. I can't wait for the next 14.1 event.

Blackjack
05-19-2009, 06:00 AM
These are my picks -just off the top of my head prior to my first cup of coffee - if I didn't mention somebody, I mean no offense - but these are the players I love to watch, in no particular order with the exception of the top 5.

Niels Feijen - Reigning World Champion
Danny Harriman - Reigning DCC Champion
John Schmidt - Mr. 403 running hundreds on a dirt bike
Thorsten Hohmann - The most consistent player I have ever seen
Darren Appleton - 2008 DCC champ, 2009 DCC runner up this man plays an awesome game of straight pool!!!
Ralf Souquet - The epitome of a champion - he plays so smart
Tony Robles - Can pocket balls and leap over tall buildings in a single bound
Mika Immonen - Has more heart in his little finger than most players have in their whole body
Oliver Ortmann - Seems to get better and stronger with age
Huidjie See - Awesome all around player!
Thomas Engert - Quick as lightning - smooth as silk
Allen Hopkins - Still a threat to win a 14.1 World Title IMO
Martin Kempter - Can run balls for hours
Johnny Archer - Plays 14.1 better than he plays 9 ball IMO
Nick Varner - A legend - nuff said
Jasmin Ouschan - Bronze medal finish last year - proved she could win against anybody
Pat Fleming - This man is still one of my favorites to watch go into the balls
Dominic Jentsch - IMO, future world champion
Nick VanDenBerg - Clean, flawless patterns
Mike Sigel - Comes out of retirement on slow nap cloth against JS & wins... Mike is still THE MAN
Efren Reyes - The best there ever will be
Dan Barouty - I could watch this man play for hours - he has such beautiful control and command of the table
Steve Lipsky - Mr. 207 - heart + desire + skill + ability = CHAMPION
Dennis Hatch - Goes through racks like Tazmanian devil
Bob Hunter - The master -1990 World Champion - hits the balls so beautifully
Mike Davis - Doesn't miss, and when he does, he's not likely the same way ever again
Corey Deuel - (Corey is the most creative pool player alive)
Landon Shuffett - Off the chart ability to go as far as he wants in this game

Also -

Jose Garcia, Bob Maidhof, Oscar Dominguez, Dave Daya, Ernesto Dominguez, Ignacio Chavez, Rafael Martinez, Francisco Bustamante, Jonathon Fulcher, Charley Gaeda, Dennis Orcullo, Konstantin Stepanov, Charlie Williams, Gerda Hofstater, Radoslaw Babica, Jeanette Lee, Bill Maropoulis, and my favorite pool player of all time - Big Perm.

Black-Balled
05-19-2009, 06:06 AM
Pshaw! Any ball/ any pocket, how hard can it be?!;)

tom mcgonagle
05-19-2009, 06:31 AM
Ray Martin and Mike Zuglan played pretty good 14.1.

sjm
05-19-2009, 06:47 AM
I believe that the greatest living straight pool players are Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Dallas West, and Ray Martin.

However, it seems most are interpreting the question as "who plays the best straight pool today?", and it's a pretty close call between Hohmann and Schmidt. Our bad luck that there aren't many occasions on which they get to compete against each other.

Thomas McKane
05-19-2009, 06:53 AM
I agree it's probably Thorsten, he's the most consistent on all tables, in all conditions, which makes a huge difference.

But he's so boring to watch....makes me go to sleep.

I find Sigel to be the most fun to watch, he's dynamic, he talks, he frets, and he makes great shots when he has to. I also think Sigel approaches the game most like the old timers, which is a lost art now. He spent much time learning from the great Irving Crane and it shows.

Blackjack
05-19-2009, 07:15 AM
I agree it's probably Thorsten, he's the most consistent on all tables, in all conditions, which makes a huge difference.

But he's so boring to watch....makes me go to sleep.

I find Sigel to be the most fun to watch, he's dynamic, he talks, he frets, and he makes great shots when he has to. I also think Sigel approaches the game most like the old timers, which is a lost art now. He spent much time learning from the great Irving Crane and it shows.
Hmmm... greatest "living" player... that is a tough one. I would go with Ray Martin - with Mike Sigel a close second - jeez... I hate to have to choose, but for IMO, Ray Martin won 3 world championships (71, 74, and 78) amongst the great players such as Murphy, Crane, Balsis, Butera, Sigel, Kelly, Mathews, West, Lane, Carella, Hall, Rempe, Jennings, Hopkins, Varner, and of course... The Miz.

Ray was a champion amongst champions in quite possibly the toughest competition in the history of the game.

Wikipedia lists some other tournaments -

* 1968 New Jersey Masters
* 1970 New York State Tournament
* 1972 New Jersey State Tournament
* 1974 World Pocket Billiard Tournament

I don't know if those were 14.1 events or not, perhaps Ray could chime in here to verify that.

(Also, does anybody have a list of past BCA US Open Champions? I couldn't find it anywhere online.)

SpiderWebComm
05-19-2009, 07:21 AM
Schmidt, Harriman, Hohmann, Engert, Souquet, Ortmann

To say any of these guys is the definitive "BEST" over the other is cheerleading, imo. Any of these guys can run-over the next on any given day. It all depends on what they eat, how much sleep they get, and what kind of bullshit they take from their girlfriends before their match.

And none of them "HAVE" to beat Sigel on any given day either - none of them.

Koop
05-19-2009, 08:17 AM
Pshaw! Any ball/ any pocket, how hard can it be?!;)

Exactly. I ran 14 once, what's the big deal.

Richardson
05-19-2009, 08:18 AM
Exactly. I ran 14 once, what's the big deal.

Yeah, i dont get it, ive ran 17/18 multiple times. Game is super easy.

Monkey-Boy
05-19-2009, 08:52 AM
Thorsten Hohmann is (in my opinion) the best 14.1 pool player alive today. I have watched many YouTube vids and seen some DVD's of the likes of John Schmidt, Mike Sigel etc, and I think the way Hohmann playes the game, is enjoyable to watch :)

The latest video I have found on YouTube - Hohmann vs. Hopkins (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq_tO_P4OSU).

14-1StraightMan
05-19-2009, 09:03 AM
Well, seeing as we've recently covered the best 9 ball and one pocket players lets see who everyone thinks is the best 14.1 player alive, forget the past because we can argue all day about Mosconi and Greenleaf. Who's the best right now?

I pick Thorsten Hohmann.

There are so many that are very equal and all can win any tournament.
I would have to say that:

1: Thorsten Hohmann
2: Niels Feijen
3: Ralf Souquet

The rest are all great: Nick Varner, Mike Sigel, Ray Martin, Dallas West, Mike Zuglan, Dick Lane, Jim Rempe, Alan Hopkins. John Schmidt, Danny Harriman, There are many more.
With picking the three above. I would still take; Varner, Sigel, Martin, West, Rempe & Hopkins to beat them in their prime.
Much respect for all of them for making the Sport so great.

ScottR
05-19-2009, 10:06 AM
I believe that the greatest living straight pool players are Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Dallas West, and Ray Martin.

However, it seems most are interpreting the question as "who plays the best straight pool today?", and it's a pretty close call between Hohmann and Schmidt. Our bad luck that there aren't many occasions on which they get to compete against each other.

I seem to remember a Texan named Dick Lane that played very sporty straight pool in his day.

Scott

LAlouie
05-19-2009, 10:54 AM
I have not been keeping up lately. Other than the 400 run, what has Schmidt done. or rather than singling him out, what have all these players done in the straight pool tourneys. Not counting Orttman who has to be giving way to the younger eyes at this point in his brilliant career. Thorston has been the defining leader in this group has he not?

SJDinPHX
05-19-2009, 11:21 AM
There are so many that are very equal and all can win any tournament.
I would have to say that:

1: Thorsten Hohmann
2: Niels Feijen
3: Ralf Souquet

The rest are all great: Nick Varner, Mike Sigel, Ray Martin, Dallas West, Mike Zuglan, Dick Lane, Jim Rempe, Alan Hopkins. John Schmidt, Danny Harriman, There are many more.
With picking the three above. I would still take; Varner, Sigel, Martin, West, Rempe & Hopkins to beat them in their prime.
Much respect for all of them for making the Sport so great.

14.1straightman.

The players most likely to top Mosconi's high run, HAVE ALLREADY DONE IT !!

The difference in a sloppy 4X8 versus a semi-tough 9 footer....IMO is worth a couple hundred balls...in the difficulty factor alone.

I also have a different top 3...

#1 Artie Bodendorfer (hates 14.1)
#2 Billy Incardona (ditto)
#3 Travis Trotter (Mine That Bird won the Derby didn't he ?)

Dick <--sorry, I may have replied to the wrong post. I have trouble paying attention (and staying awake) when it comes to 14.1 :eek:

JXMIKE
05-19-2009, 11:39 AM
Yeah, i dont get it, ive ran 17/18 multiple times. Game is super easy.


That must make me a monster at straight pool with my high run of 27, i dont play the game that much but one day maybe once ill reach 28.:D

CreeDo
05-19-2009, 05:21 PM
TOASTI for sure. My personal fave, but I'm not voting for him just because I like to see him play.

Stuff I've heard about him:

- What mair said: three 125's in one day
- two 150 and out's in the same day at the Maryland state championships in 2007
- In one recent tournament I remember the commentator saying he AVERAGED 70. I don't know if that counts safeties too, but even if it doesn't, that's insanity.
- ran 174 against JS in the 2006 dp world championships

I find perfect straight pool pretty entertaining to watch, and that's what Toasti seems to play. He's so accurate with his position. You feel like he picks a dime-sized position area and hits it most of the time.

justpool
05-19-2009, 05:34 PM
Dont forget DALLAS WEST 75, 83 US open champion & played sigel in the 92 finals. Mosconi said that Dallas was the best living straight pool player back in the 70's & 80's. ;)

sjm
05-19-2009, 06:01 PM
Dont forget DALLAS WEST 75, 83 US open champion & played sigel in the 92 finals. Mosconi said that Dallas was the best living straight pool player back in the 70's & 80's. ;)

I mentioned Dallas West in an earlier post in this thread, and he is a living legend. Yes, Mosconi had a super-high opinion of West, although he felt Rempe's patterns were the best of any player of that era, and he said as much in my presence. Still, Dallas West, who also played the patterns with incredible excellence, had the better career as a straight pooler.

Craig
05-19-2009, 08:20 PM
Schmidt, Harriman, Hohmann, Engert, Souquet, Ortmann

To say any of these guys is the definitive "BEST" over the other is cheerleading, imo. Any of these guys can run-over the next on any given day. It all depends on what they eat, how much sleep they get, and what kind of bullshit they take from their girlfriends before their match.

And none of them "HAVE" to beat Sigel on any given day either - none of them.

So True............:thumbup:

Bobby
05-19-2009, 08:28 PM
I have not been keeping up lately. Other than the 400 run, what has Schmidt done. or rather than singling him out, what have all these players done in the straight pool tourneys. Not counting Orttman who has to be giving way to the younger eyes at this point in his brilliant career. Thorston has been the defining leader in this group has he not?

You're right, most of the players named haven't done much. Of the last few Major 14.1 events Souquet won the 2000 U.S. open, Hohmann won the 2006 World Title, Ortmann won the 2007 World Title and Feijien won the 2008 World Title.

Mowem down
05-19-2009, 08:38 PM
John Madden
Don Wardamin

Mr441
05-19-2009, 10:33 PM
It seems almost everyone is in agreement on Hohmann being the best. I have to say I still don't get why John Schmidt is mentioned so often. Yes, we know he ran 400 in practice but so has Earl Strickland and no one is mentioning him. Regardless of actual 14.1 skill, Schmidt hasn't done anything in a 14.1 event. I think his best ever is 5th through 8th at the world championships last year. He even lost a close 300 point match to Pagulayan and you never hear Alex mentioned as a 14.1 great. Frankly I don't care if someone runs 700 balls in practice, if they don't perform on the worlds stage it means nothing. There have been many phenomenal players who were just as skilled as the legendary players but failed greatly in competition: George Mikula, Gene Nagy, Michael Eufemia to name a few. I'm not saying Schmidt won't win a world title or two in the future but until he at least makes it to a final I can't consider him a top 14.1 player.

RenoRex
05-19-2009, 10:36 PM
Mike Sigel is very much alive and has played some very sporty 14-1 during his career ...

MyraCurfs
05-19-2009, 11:30 PM
I remember a tough match on the EC in Velthoven the Netherlands... as where Torsten had given the last eight in eight ball to Alex lely... It was 124- 0 for Ortman against Niels..Niels lets him put on the rack to shoot the breakball.. behmm near pressure.. Ollie misses and that is where Niels toulk a time out, came back and runs 125..

I guess a lott of the choices we make in choosing the best man alive in straight pool has to do with what we like the best... The man who had given that 1 ball to ollie or the fighter Niels is...

My choice:
In pattern play: Niels and souquet
In chear form: thorsten and Nick
And i just love to see Jassie play.. but that's not because of patterns ( she ignores her mistakes in that and that what i love.. she shows Guts)

sjm
05-20-2009, 12:17 AM
It seems almost everyone is in agreement on Hohmann being the best. I have to say I still don't get why John Schmidt is mentioned so often. Yes, we know he ran 400 in practice but so has Earl Strickland and no one is mentioning him. Regardless of actual 14.1 skill, Schmidt hasn't done anything in a 14.1 event. I think his best ever is 5th through 8th at the world championships last year. He even lost a close 300 point match to Pagulayan and you never hear Alex mentioned as a 14.1 great. Frankly I don't care if someone runs 700 balls in practice, if they don't perform on the worlds stage it means nothing. There have been many phenomenal players who were just as skilled as the legendary players but failed greatly in competition: George Mikula, Gene Nagy, Michael Eufemia to name a few. I'm not saying Schmidt won't win a world title or two in the future but until he at least makes it to a final I can't consider him a top 14.1 player.


I watched Nagy, Mikula and Eufemia play straight pool in their primes, fine players all of them. To compare Schmidt to them is ridiculous. There was a legitimate straight pool scene in America back then, including an annual US Open 14.1 event, an annual World 14.1 Championship event, and a tour called the Eastern States tour in the East that had straight pool events. There was also straight pool at the Stardust and, of course, at Johnston City. In other words, great straight poolers had numerous chances to validate their pedigree in competition. This is not the case today.

The World 14.1 Championship event was brought back form the dead in 2006. Looking at Schmidt's efforts in the three events that have been held, in 2006, he finished ninth, the victim of Hohmann's 174 and out in single elimination. In 2007, he finished 5th, beaten by Harriman in the quarterfinal, and in 2008, he finished 5th, narrowly beaten by eventual champion Feijen in the quarterfinal.

As a competitor, John has certainly proven himself to be among the game's most elite in 14.1 competition, and Nagy, Mikula, and Eufemia did not.

In a really long race, even one lasting a few thousand points, John, possibly a very slight underdog, would have a realistic chance to beat Hohmann. Nagy, Mikula and Eufemia, perhaps best viewed as contemporaries of Irving Crane, Joe Balsis, Luther Lassiter, Harold Worst, Dan DiLiberto, Dallas West, Jimmy Moore, and Eddie Kelly, would not have ever been up to winning very long challenge matches against any of those players.

In competition, John's best may still be yet to come, but he is an established superstar of 14.1, and has earned the great respect he gets in this thread.

dmgwalsh
05-20-2009, 11:31 AM
These are my picks -just off the top of my head prior to my first cup of coffee - if I didn't mention somebody, I mean no offense - but these are the players I love to watch, in no particular order with the exception of the top 5.

Niels Feijen - Reigning World Champion
Danny Harriman - Reigning DCC Champion
John Schmidt - Mr. 403 running hundreds on a dirt bike
Thorsten Hohmann - The most consistent player I have ever seen
Darren Appleton - 2008 DCC champ, 2009 DCC runner up this man plays an awesome game of straight pool!!!
Ralf Souquet - The epitome of a champion - he plays so smart
Tony Robles - Can pocket balls and leap over tall buildings in a single bound
Mika Immonen - Has more heart in his little finger than most players have in their whole body
Oliver Ortmann - Seems to get better and stronger with age
Huidjie See - Awesome all around player!
Thomas Engert - Quick as lightning - smooth as silk
Allen Hopkins - Still a threat to win a 14.1 World Title IMO
Martin Kempter - Can run balls for hours
Johnny Archer - Plays 14.1 better than he plays 9 ball IMO
Nick Varner - A legend - nuff said
Jasmin Ouschan - Bronze medal finish last year - proved she could win against anybody
Pat Fleming - This man is still one of my favorites to watch go into the balls
Dominic Jentsch - IMO, future world champion
Nick VanDenBerg - Clean, flawless patterns
Mike Sigel - Comes out of retirement on slow nap cloth against JS & wins... Mike is still THE MAN
Efren Reyes - The best there ever will be
Dan Barouty - I could watch this man play for hours - he has such beautiful control and command of the table
Steve Lipsky - Mr. 207 - heart + desire + skill + ability = CHAMPION
Dennis Hatch - Goes through racks like Tazmanian devil
Bob Hunter - The master -1990 World Champion - hits the balls so beautifully
Mike Davis - Doesn't miss, and when he does, he's not likely the same way ever again
Corey Deuel - (Corey is the most creative pool player alive)
Landon Shuffett - Off the chart ability to go as far as he wants in this game

Also -

Jose Garcia, Bob Maidhof, Oscar Dominguez, Dave Daya, Ernesto Dominguez, Ignacio Chavez, Rafael Martinez, Francisco Bustamante, Jonathon Fulcher, Charley Gaeda, Dennis Orcullo, Konstantin Stepanov, Charlie Williams, Gerda Hofstater, Radoslaw Babica, Jeanette Lee, Bill Maropoulis, and my favorite pool player of all time - Big Perm.

David:

I understand that Bill beat Schmidty 50-27 last night in a quick game for lunch. You may have to move Billy boy up the list a little.;)

Mr441
05-20-2009, 12:39 PM
I watched Nagy, Mikula and Eufemia play straight pool in their primes, fine players all of them. To compare Schmidt to them is ridiculous. There was a legitimate straight pool scene in America back then, including an annual US Open 14.1 event, an annual World 14.1 Championship event, and a tour called the Eastern States tour in the East that had straight pool events. There was also straight pool at the Stardust and, of course, at Johnston City. In other words, great straight poolers had numerous chances to validate their pedigree in competition. This is not the case today.

The World 14.1 Championship event was brought back form the dead in 2006. Looking at Schmidt's efforts in the three events that have been held, in 2006, he finished ninth, the victim of Hohmann's 174 and out in single elimination. In 2007, he finished 5th, beaten by Harriman in the quarterfinal, and in 2008, he finished 5th, narrowly beaten by eventual champion Feijen in the quarterfinal.

As a competitor, John has certainly proven himself to be among the game's most elite in 14.1 competition, and Nagy, Mikula, and Eufemia did not.

In a really long race, even one lasting a few thousand points, John, possibly a very slight underdog, would have a realistic chance to beat Hohmann. Nagy, Mikula and Eufemia, perhaps best viewed as contemporaries of Crane, Balsis, Lassiter, DiLiberto, West, Moore, and Mizerak, would not have ever been up to winning very long challenge matches against any of those players.

In competition, John's best may still be yet to come, but he is an established superstar of 14.1, and has earned the great respect he gets in this thread.

He may very well win some titles in the future, he may even dominate but as of right now he hasn't done anything at all except run 400 in practice which many have done, and make the quarter-finals in a world event. That's not cutting it in my book. The only time I've even heard of him playing a challenge match was at the DCC a few years ago with Pagulayan and he lost that. I mean granted there aren't a lot of 14.1 events these days but in the few that have occured, a few players have done better than John and haven't been mentioned at all in this thread.

dmgwalsh
05-20-2009, 01:33 PM
He may very well win some titles in the future, he may even dominate but as of right now he hasn't done anything at all except run 400 in practice which many have done, and make the quarter-finals in a world event. That's not cutting it in my book. The only time I've even heard of him playing a challenge match was at the DCC a few years ago with Pagulayan and he lost that. I mean granted there aren't a lot of 14.1 events these days but in the few that have occured, a few players have done better than John and haven't been mentioned at all in this thread.

SJM is right. There is not much around. In Europe, they play it all the time.

John did shoot fairly well in the two matches to 400 against Danny Harriman.

stormshadow1
05-20-2009, 01:37 PM
1.Mike Sigel 2.Earl Strickland 3.Clif Joyner 4.John Schmidt 5.Thorsten Hohman These are in no particular order.

CreeDo
05-20-2009, 01:52 PM
...441 may have a point. John is one of my favorite players and I like watching him play straight pool. Somehow it escaped my notice that he hasn't won any straight pool titles, as good as he plays.

But let's be fair - "many" guys haven't run over 400, 10 other guys have officially done it and 13 if you want to count the unofficial runs. Can't sneeze at doing such a thing in practice cuz afaik all of these high runs in are in practice (or exhibition). Really you can't knock it no matter what the circumstances. It's something amazing and it's not like it's a fluke, john rains hundreds and has many 200's too. He's hit 400 twice.

Not sure why john hasn't won some of the (few and far between) 14.1 events but I'm rooting for him to do so soon. Wonder what his reaction will be when he notices this thread? Maybe he'll come woofing after you mr.441 =) ...that'd be a cool match if you came by your nickname the same way mr. 400 came by his.

john schmidt
05-20-2009, 02:20 PM
It seems almost everyone is in agreement on Hohmann being the best. I have to say I still don't get why John Schmidt is mentioned so often. Yes, we know he ran 400 in practice but so has Earl Strickland and no one is mentioning him. Regardless of actual 14.1 skill, Schmidt hasn't done anything in a 14.1 event. I think his best ever is 5th through 8th at the world championships last year. He even lost a close 300 point match to Pagulayan and you never hear Alex mentioned as a 14.1 great. Frankly I don't care if someone runs 700 balls in practice, if they don't perform on the worlds stage it means nothing. There have been many phenomenal players who were just as skilled as the legendary players but failed greatly in competition: George Mikula, Gene Nagy, Michael Eufemia to name a few. I'm not saying Schmidt won't win a world title or two in the future but until he at least makes it to a final I can't consider him a top 14.1 player.
i can see why you feel that way but.

in fairness to me ive only played in a few 14.1 tourneys.
qualifier for worlds in 2000 1st
worlds in 2000 9th
legends of 14.1 in 03 1st
world 14.1 06 9th
world 14.1 07 5th
world 14.108 5th
derby challenge 3rd,3rd,4th,and high run prize this year.
accu stat invitational this year also had high run of event.

also as far as the alex match i won two games bad and lost the next game 298 to 300 .then he won the next game.

so we were about even on balls and games and i havent been able to get him to play since.

also have run 400 or more twice with witnesses and 46 runs over 200 with about 500 runs over 150.

anyway it aint much but for a guy whos played 14.1 only a handful of times when it counts thats the best i can do.

maybe things will fall together and ill win the one tourney a year where we play 14.1. take care

real bartram
05-20-2009, 02:24 PM
i can see why you feel that way but.

in fairness to me ive only played in a few 14.1 tourneys.
qualifier for worlds in 2000 1st
worlds in 2000 9th
legends of 14.1 in 03 1st
world 14.1 06 9th
world 14.1 07 5th
world 14.108 5th
derby challenge 3rd,3rd,4th,and high run prize this year.
accu stat invitational this year also had high run of event.

also as far as the alex match i won two games bad and lost the next game 298 to 300 .then he won the next game.

so we were about even on balls and games and i havent been able to get him to play since.

also have run 400 or more twice with witnesses and 46 runs over 200 with about 500 runs over 150.

anyway it aint much but for a guy whos played 14.1 only a handful of times when it counts thats the best i can do.

maybe things will fall together and ill win the one tourney a year where we play 14.1. take care

john i dont know much about 14.1 but who do you think is the best 5.
and is there one player who you think is the best.
like i think orculo is for 10 ball.

john schmidt
05-20-2009, 02:57 PM
john i dont know much about 14.1 but who do you think is the best 5.
and is there one player who you think is the best.
like i think orculo is for 10 ball.

im thinking guys like hohmann,engert,ortmann,robles,garcia,hokins,harrim an,sigel,souquet,etc. their is about 10 that are great.

p.s. orcullo is great but i still think you can win with the 78.

real bartram
05-20-2009, 04:13 PM
im thinking guys like hohmann,engert,ortmann,robles,garcia,hokins,harrim an,sigel,souquet,etc. their is about 10 that are great.

p.s. orcullo is great but i still think you can win with the 78.

i like that game i know i can win.
i did not play great on him i didnt play bad either.
when we played i felt like i got good and bad rolls but with him they were all bad.
not taken anything from him but yes i still like the game.

Bobby
05-20-2009, 05:40 PM
i can see why you feel that way but.

in fairness to me ive only played in a few 14.1 tourneys.
qualifier for worlds in 2000 1st
worlds in 2000 9th
legends of 14.1 in 03 1st
world 14.1 06 9th
world 14.1 07 5th
world 14.108 5th
derby challenge 3rd,3rd,4th,and high run prize this year.
accu stat invitational this year also had high run of event.

also as far as the alex match i won two games bad and lost the next game 298 to 300 .then he won the next game.

so we were about even on balls and games and i havent been able to get him to play since.

also have run 400 or more twice with witnesses and 46 runs over 200 with about 500 runs over 150.

anyway it aint much but for a guy whos played 14.1 only a handful of times when it counts thats the best i can do.

maybe things will fall together and ill win the one tourney a year where we play 14.1. take care


John, have you and any other top 14.1 guys ever talked about doing a big TAR match? I think a lot of people would pay to see you and Thorsten play a big money 1000 or 500 point match. I know Thorsten doesn't gamble but I'm sure he'd have no trouble finding a backer. Or maybe you vs Mika? I think it would be more exciting than 10 ball because a player could be literally a few points from victory and his opponent could still run 100+ and out for the win. I think it would be great.

mullyman
05-20-2009, 05:47 PM
You can toss any name you want out there until Efren decides he's going to seriously take up straight pool for a living. After that it's all done with.
MULLY

CreeDo
05-20-2009, 11:14 PM
it's a little late in life for efren to start it, on the other hand this is the one game where age doesn't seem to slow you down a lot, maybe cuz a lot of your shots will be short ones. Anyway efren doesn't age like a normal player.

I was really surprised to see Earl got one of the highest runs on record, over 400. Earl seems like the kind of guy who'd spit on straight pool and wouldn't run more than 200 without getting bored. Maybe if you put a gun to his head. Obviously he has the shooting talent to play with the best, it'd be interesting to see him and some other champion 9-ballers get serious about the game.

dmgwalsh
05-21-2009, 03:43 AM
John, have you and any other top 14.1 guys ever talked about doing a big TAR match? I think a lot of people would pay to see you and Thorsten play a big money 1000 or 500 point match. I know Thorsten doesn't gamble but I'm sure he'd have no trouble finding a backer. Or maybe you vs Mika? I think it would be more exciting than 10 ball because a player could be literally a few points from victory and his opponent could still run 100+ and out for the win. I think it would be great.

That would be cool to see.

How long did those 400 ball matches between John and Danny H take?

In the old days with Mosconi and Caras and them guys, weren't some of the games races to 1000 in blocks of 400 or 500 or something like that? Perhaps they could do one match to 1000 over 2 or 3 days.

sjm
05-21-2009, 07:47 AM
That would be cool to see.

How long did those 400 ball matches between John and Danny H take?

In the old days with Mosconi and Caras and them guys, weren't some of the games races to 1000 in blocks of 400 or 500 or something like that? Perhaps they could do one match to 1000 over 2 or 3 days.

As a youth, I was lucky enough to watch a couple of these 1,000 point matches. One of the ones I witnessed worked as follows:

Day 1, afternoon: Play until one of the players reaches 250, leave the position intact during the break of a few hours

Day 1, evening: Play continues until one of the players has reached 500, leave the position intact overnight

Day 2, afternoon: Play continues until one of the players has reached 750, leave the position intact during the break of a few hours

Day 2, evening: Play continues until one of the players reaches 1,000 points.

Alternatively, the match could take place over a four day period, with one session a day. Typically, total playing time would be about 20 hours.

alstl
05-21-2009, 08:56 AM
Well, seeing as we've recently covered the best 9 ball and one pocket players lets see who everyone thinks is the best 14.1 player alive, forget the past because we can argue all day about Mosconi and Greenleaf. Who's the best right now?

I pick Thorsten Hohmann.

Best player alive? I'd go with Ray Martin. Best player at the moment, Schmidt, Ortmann, Feijen, Hohmann, etc take your pick.

Bobby
05-21-2009, 09:58 AM
it's a little late in life for efren to start it, on the other hand this is the one game where age doesn't seem to slow you down a lot, maybe cuz a lot of your shots will be short ones. Anyway efren doesn't age like a normal player.

I was really surprised to see Earl got one of the highest runs on record, over 400. Earl seems like the kind of guy who'd spit on straight pool and wouldn't run more than 200 without getting bored. Maybe if you put a gun to his head. Obviously he has the shooting talent to play with the best, it'd be interesting to see him and some other champion 9-ballers get serious about the game.

Creedo, Earl plays staright pool really well. He had the high run at the 1999 National 14.1 Championships in NYC, it was 130 I believe, I've never seen balls run so effortlessly in my life. I'm not saying his patterns were as perfect as Mizerak's or Sigel's but he just made it look easy with his phenomenal shooting skills.

Terry Ardeno
05-29-2009, 10:38 AM
If I could pick just ONE player in a calcutta in a major 14.1 tournament, I would take Oliver Ortmann.

He's won 10 German 14.1 Championships, 5 European 14.1 Champions, 2 U.S. Open 14.1 Championships as well as the World 14.1 Championship.

John Schmidt would be my 2nd choice.

My dear friend SJM and I have had some discussion over Ortmann's pattern play and where SJM ranks him all time, but one thing for certain...him and John Schmidt are two of the very best shotmakers in 14.1. Guys like Ortmann, Schmidt and Reyes may not play "classic" patterns like some of the great elites of the past, but they sure can come with the toughest shots while under the gun.

As far as greatest "living player", not active, Mike Sigel (half-active I guess), Dallas West, Ray Martin, Nick Varner and Ed Kelly come to mind.

Jim Rempe, Frank McGown, Danny DiLiberto, and Grady sure could play as well!

Great thread!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-W-hcQYC70&feature=PlayList&p=9438DCB4EB740812&index=0

CreeDo
05-29-2009, 01:39 PM
Creedo, Earl plays staright pool really well. He had the high run at the 1999 National 14.1 Championships in NYC, it was 130 I believe, I've never seen balls run so effortlessly in my life. I'm not saying his patterns were as perfect as Mizerak's or Sigel's but he just made it look easy with his phenomenal shooting skills.

It sounds like a treat to watch, earl's quick two-stroking would make straight pool appealing for even the most casual ESPN fan. I have exactly one video of him playing at the maine event and nothing else. I can't see any more listed on accu-stats either. Could it be earl last competed at a big straight pool tournament 14 years ago?!

Samiel
05-29-2009, 01:47 PM
Creedo, Earl plays staright pool really well. He had the high run at the 1999 National 14.1 Championships in NYC, it was 130 I believe, I've never seen balls run so effortlessly in my life. I'm not saying his patterns were as perfect as Mizerak's or Sigel's but he just made it look easy with his phenomenal shooting skills.

I once read somewhere where someone quoted on watching Earl and Efren play straight pool (not against each other).

They said Earl's was a lot of firepower with great shot-making.

They said Efren's was absolute finesse.

I think both styles would be awesome to watch.

berry
06-08-2009, 06:02 AM
It's Niels, the World Champion 14.1 and 4 times European 14.1 winner in the last 7 years. Their is no one (active top player) with this record. Hohmann and Schmidt are next.

This is of the active top players in the field. The Pinoy's are close but don't play the game enough. Souquet and Ortmann are also dangerous in the game.

Just my 2 cents

NYC cue dude
06-08-2009, 09:29 AM
It's Niels, the World Champion 14.1 and 4 times European 14.1 winner in the last 7 years. Their is no one (active top player) with this record. Hohmann and Schmidt are next.

This is of the active top players in the field. The Pinoy's are close but don't play the game enough. Souquet and Ortmann are also dangerous in the game.

Just my 2 cents


This post isn't entirely accurate. In the last 3 world championships, Hohmann and ortman have each won it once, but Thorsten has finished MUCH higher in the events he didn't win. I beleive he has won the European championships 2x as well, with significantly higher averages. More importantly, Thorsten has NEVER LOST TO ORTMANN IN COMPETITION.

My top 4 in order,
Hohmann
Ortmann
Engert
Mika

Rg

dmgwalsh
06-08-2009, 10:45 AM
This post isn't entirely accurate. In the last 3 world championships, Hohmann and ortman have each won it once, but Thorsten has finished MUCH higher in the events he didn't win. I beleive he has won the European championships 2x as well, with significantly higher averages. More importantly, Thorsten has NEVER LOST TO ORTMANN IN COMPETITION.

My top 4 in order,
Hohmann
Ortmann
Engert
Mika

Rg

Where would you put Schmidt, Harriman, Souquet and Feijen?

I'd guess that Schmidt has more 100 ball runs than Hohmann. What do you think?

sjm
06-08-2009, 01:29 PM
Where would you put Schmidt, Harriman, Souquet and Feijen?

I'd guess that Schmidt has more 100 ball runs than Hohmann. What do you think?

Probably right, Dennis. John is very prolific in running centuries. The player from history who, like John, mass-produced big runs in practice was Art "Babe" Cranfield, believed to have run over 700 twice. Irving Crane, in my presence, guessed that Cranfield had more 300 ball runs in practice than anyone in the game's history.

Personally, I think John plays better 14.1 than Harriman, Souquet, and Feijen, and I would expect him to prevail in a long race against any of them. I think that, of the three, Feijen would prove the toughest test.