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View Full Version : Strong BB player vs Strong big table player


Johnnyt
05-23-2009, 03:05 AM
This is just my observation of how a strong B+ and up player on a 9-footer does against a strong B+ player and up on a bar box. Iím not talking up to the top tier pro, just up to pros that cash high or win regional tournaments often, but hardly ever cash in the top 16 of majors.

IMO the 9-foot player that plays only 5% or less on a BB, but is very strong in position will give the BB player all he wants on the BB and beat hell out of him on a 9-footer.

The 9-foot player that is a good shot-maker but only fair in his/her position play for whatever ranking they hold (B+, up to 2nd tier pro) might not be the favorite on a BB against a strong B+ and up BB player.

Over the last 30 years of my 50+, I played probably 75% of my gambling games on a BB. I came to the conclusion years ago that I could beat or hold my own with the above type 9-foot player as long as he/she was not a 14.1 player on the 9-footers. The strong B+ BB player is usually better at breaking up clusters on a BB and the good shot-maker with only fair position is negated on a BB. You just donít have shots over 6-foot on a BB and a good position player has few of them. That is what I looked for when matching up with a good 9-foot player on a BB.

As far as the top of the line pros on a 9-footer, forget about it. They can crush a good BB player on a BB or any other size table, with ease. Just my thoughts on this, what do you all think? Johnnyt

Gerry
05-23-2009, 03:45 AM
I think you summed it up fine johnny.

I play 99% of my pool on a tite 9 footer. BB, when I get on them, seem like toys. I did have to learn a few things to play real well on BB like not trying to get perfect all the time....like you said, there re no long shots! :)

I have gambled 14.1 on a BB with some luck, but I rather would have played on a 10 footer!.....more space is better then easier shots IMO.

G.

ShootingArts
05-23-2009, 07:15 AM
This is just my observation of how a strong B+ and up player on a 9-footer does against a strong B+ player and up on a bar box. Iím not talking up to the top tier pro, just up to pros that cash high or win regional tournaments often, but hardly ever cash in the top 16 of majors.

IMO the 9-foot player that plays only 5% or less on a BB, but is very strong in position will give the BB player all he wants on the BB and beat hell out of him on a 9-footer.

The 9-foot player that is a good shot-maker but only fair in his/her position play for whatever ranking they hold (B+, up to 2nd tier pro) might not be the favorite on a BB against a strong B+ and up BB player.

Over the last 30 years of my 50+, I played probably 75% of my gambling games on a BB. I came to the conclusion years ago that I could beat or hold my own with the above type 9-foot player as long as he/she was not a 14.1 player on the 9-footers. The strong B+ BB player is usually better at breaking up clusters on a BB and the good shot-maker with only fair position is negated on a BB. You just donít have shots over 6-foot on a BB and a good position player has few of them. That is what I looked for when matching up with a good 9-foot player on a BB.

As far as the top of the line pros on a 9-footer, forget about it. They can crush a good BB player on a BB or any other size table, with ease. Just my thoughts on this, what do you all think? Johnnyt


Johnny,

No surprise, I agree with you with the caveat that it can depend on the cue ball in a short race. Especially if using the big ball, sometimes the barbox player can beat a much stronger nine foot specialist before they adapt to the cue ball. Also a nine foot specialist often has a different idea of safety play than what is needed on a bar table. You have to lock a ball up and throw away the key on a bar table. All that being said, in a long gambling match-up I would almost always put my money on the big table player if I thought the players' games were pretty close to even on their respective tables. A short tournament style race, the big table player might make one or two mistakes before adjusting and that could be the ball game.

Hu

windward
05-23-2009, 08:46 AM
If you take this down to the C level players the difference in ability on the BB vs nine footer is even greater. While a majority of the big table players will adjust to the BB fairly quickly, the BB guy will have a hell of a time making anything over a half table long shot. Especially if the pockets are a little tight.

Johnnyt
05-23-2009, 08:58 AM
If you take this down to the C level players the difference in ability on the BB vs nine footer is even greater. While a majority of the big table players will adjust to the BB fairly quickly, the BB guy will have a hell of a time making anything over a half table long shot. Especially if the pockets are a little tight.

Just talking about the guy that plays on 9-footers coming to play on a BB...not the BB guy going on a 9-foot table. Johnnyt

selftaut
05-23-2009, 10:33 AM
Put them on a Diamond BB though and it changes everything.

CreeDo
05-23-2009, 11:52 AM
I noticed something watching scott frost in a recent tournament. He played the ghost on a barbox and I think he missed maybe 2 balls in 20 racks. Playing on a 9 footer in a tournament, he missed like 4 balls in less than 10 racks.

All of his misses were the kind of shot where you hit a ball pretty firm to get the CB moving and the OB just rattled. I think a guy who barboxes all day gets used to the fat pockets that accept more cheating. It's not like he missed long tough shots, it's just that he missed routine shots because of the force and spin he put on the cue ball.

Not bashing on the guy, for all I know it was a fluke and he'll never miss those balls again. They may fall a bit more often too if he were playing a top pro for big money instead of a decent local in a tournament.

Johnnyt
05-23-2009, 12:03 PM
Put them on a Diamond BB though and it changes everything.

Yes, I prefer to play on a Valley:grin:. Johnnyt

Johnnyt
05-23-2009, 12:05 PM
I noticed something watching scott frost in a recent tournament. He played the ghost on a barbox and I think he missed maybe 2 balls in 20 racks. Playing on a 9 footer in a tournament, he missed like 4 balls in less than 10 racks.

All of his misses were the kind of shot where you hit a ball pretty firm to get the CB moving and the OB just rattled. I think a guy who barboxes all day gets used to the fat pockets that accept more cheating. It's not like he missed long tough shots, it's just that he missed routine shots because of the force and spin he put on the cue ball.

Not bashing on the guy, for all I know it was a fluke and he'll never miss those balls again. They may fall a bit more often too if he were playing a top pro for big money instead of a decent local in a tournament.

I put Scott in the top tier of pros, or very damn close. Johnnyt

ajrack
05-23-2009, 12:12 PM
I started out shooting 14.1 for many years. I have played 3 C Billiards, snooker, bar box, one pocket, nine ball, etc. One day, at noon, I played on a 12 foot Riley snooker table - race to 5, At 4 pm, I played nine ball on a 9 foot Gold Crown - race to 9, then that night, I played in an 8 ball tourney on a 7 foot bar box - races to 6. I won the snooker match, won the 9 ball match and finished 2nd in the bar box tourney (in the finals my opponent ran 6 out!). Long Day! Going down in size was a GREAT advantage! No such thing as a Long Shot!
Because I normally play on a 9 footer, going up or down in size is not a big deal, but it does take a few racks to get smooth.

Bobby
05-23-2009, 12:36 PM
..................

Bobby
05-23-2009, 12:40 PM
I'll say this much, I only play on 9 footers. Only once have I played on a bar table, it was at the 1999 Super Billiards Expo Open Bar table event. I was only a low B player at the time and I went into the match cold having never hit a ball on a bar table in my life. I lost the match 5-4, 4-5, 5-3 and i only missed one shot the entire match. I have no idea how good my opponent was, he missed once also and seemed like a good player but it was really hard to tell. It seems the bar table levels the playing field.

Cuaba
05-23-2009, 12:41 PM
I played a guy who was a world class snooker player and a fantastic big table pool player some BB 8-Ball and tortured him. I would have had no chance in the other two games.

Bobby
05-23-2009, 12:43 PM
I played a guy who was a world class snooker player and a fantastic big table pool player some BB 8-Ball and tortured him. I would have had no chance in the other two games.

Who was he?

BVal
05-23-2009, 12:49 PM
I'll say this much, I only play on 9 footers. Only once have I played on a bar table, it was at the 1999 Super Billiards Expo Open Bar table event. I was only a low B player at the time and I went into the match cold having never hit a ball on a bar table in my life. I lost the match 5-4, 4-5, 5-3 and i only missed one shot the entire match. I have no idea how good my opponent was, he missed once also and seemed like a good player but it was really hard to tell. It seems the bar table levels the playing field.
Missing one ball in 26 games is a low B player? If so I am reclassifying myself as a mid to low J player.

BVal

Cuaba
05-23-2009, 12:49 PM
Who was he?

Out of respect I won't say who, but he was playing competitively about 20 years ago.

He did get a phone call from Jimmy White while we were playing, no B.S., I know he's friends with Jimmy.

BVal
05-23-2009, 12:50 PM
Out of respect I won't say who, but he was playing competitively about 20 years ago.

He did get a phone call from Jimmy White while we were playing, no B.S., I know he's friends with Jimmy.
I can hear Jimmy :) (What movie?)

BVal

Bobby
05-23-2009, 01:02 PM
Missing one ball in 26 games is a low B player? If so I am reclassifying myself as a mid to low J player.

BVal

At the time I was actually rated as a C+ player on the tri-state tour in the NYC area. At the time I would typically miss about 6 or 7 shots in a race to 9 on a 9 footer. The bar table seemed to me to be ridiculously easy, it seemed almost impossible to miss, in fact after the match my friend said "how did you miss that shot?!" When I miss on a 9 foot table it's almost always a long shot, so since there are no long shots on a bar table I find it very easy. Playing on a bar table really didn't feel like pool at all. When I hear about pros playing gambling sessions on a bar table I'm like WTF? Do they ever miss?

crawfish
05-23-2009, 01:10 PM
It's not about missing on the barbox. It's about stringing. Kicking safe. The break. Most decent players won't just miss on the bartable. But the great bb players break and string'em. Often. More often than the lesser player. That's the way to win on the bartable, offense, offense. You go to rolling and putt-putting balls safe on the bartable and watch great players kick'em in and piss'em in left and right on the kicks. Then, sit back and wait for your next open shot. Luat showed me how to kick once on the bartable. Cost me, too.

You can be a specialist on the bartable also. I once saw Gene Cooper offer to play Pete Horne on the barbox. Pete declined and offered the last three on the big table. Think about it. The break, and pure offense.

Cuaba
05-23-2009, 01:11 PM
When I hear about pros playing gambling sessions on a bar table I'm like WTF? Do they ever miss?

You get a guy who consistently makes long shots on a 12' X 6' snooker table and he's never gonna miss an open shot on a bar box. But those guys don't break as well, they don't bank as well, they don't break out clusters as aggressively, and they don't control the cueball as tight as a good BB player on a bar box.

Its a different strategy on a different battlefield.

5ballcharlie
05-23-2009, 02:53 PM
It's not about missing on the barbox. It's about stringing. Kicking safe. The break. Most decent players won't just miss on the bartable. But the great bb players break and string'em. Often. More often than the lesser player. That's the way to win on the bartable, offense, offense. You go to rolling and putt-putting balls safe on the bartable and watch great players kick'em in and piss'em in left and right on the kicks. Then, sit back and wait for your next open shot. Luat showed me how to kick once on the bartable. Cost me, too.

You can be a specialist on the bartable also. I once saw Gene Cooper offer to play Pete Horne on the barbox. Pete declined and offered the last three on the big table. Think about it. The break, and pure offense.

nice post!

macguy
05-23-2009, 03:13 PM
This is just my observation of how a strong B+ and up player on a 9-footer does against a strong B+ player and up on a bar box. Iím not talking up to the top tier pro, just up to pros that cash high or win regional tournaments often, but hardly ever cash in the top 16 of majors.

IMO the 9-foot player that plays only 5% or less on a BB, but is very strong in position will give the BB player all he wants on the BB and beat hell out of him on a 9-footer.

The 9-foot player that is a good shot-maker but only fair in his/her position play for whatever ranking they hold (B+, up to 2nd tier pro) might not be the favorite on a BB against a strong B+ and up BB player.

Over the last 30 years of my 50+, I played probably 75% of my gambling games on a BB. I came to the conclusion years ago that I could beat or hold my own with the above type 9-foot player as long as he/she was not a 14.1 player on the 9-footers. The strong B+ BB player is usually better at breaking up clusters on a BB and the good shot-maker with only fair position is negated on a BB. You just donít have shots over 6-foot on a BB and a good position player has few of them. That is what I looked for when matching up with a good 9-foot player on a BB.

As far as the top of the line pros on a 9-footer, forget about it. They can crush a good BB player on a BB or any other size table, with ease. Just my thoughts on this, what do you all think? Johnnyt

For what it is worth.
I saw Ronnie Sypher beat Billy Incardona on a bar table, bad. The a few hours later they played in the pool room and Billie beat Ronnie giving him the 7.

1on1pooltournys
05-23-2009, 03:29 PM
This is just my observation of how a strong B+ and up player on a 9-footer does against a strong B+ player and up on a bar box. Iím not talking up to the top tier pro, just up to pros that cash high or win regional tournaments often, but hardly ever cash in the top 16 of majors.

IMO the 9-foot player that plays only 5% or less on a BB, but is very strong in position will give the BB player all he wants on the BB and beat hell out of him on a 9-footer.

The 9-foot player that is a good shot-maker but only fair in his/her position play for whatever ranking they hold (B+, up to 2nd tier pro) might not be the favorite on a BB against a strong B+ and up BB player.

Over the last 30 years of my 50+, I played probably 75% of my gambling games on a BB. I came to the conclusion years ago that I could beat or hold my own with the above type 9-foot player as long as he/she was not a 14.1 player on the 9-footers. The strong B+ BB player is usually better at breaking up clusters on a BB and the good shot-maker with only fair position is negated on a BB. You just donít have shots over 6-foot on a BB and a good position player has few of them. That is what I looked for when matching up with a good 9-foot player on a BB.

As far as the top of the line pros on a 9-footer, forget about it. They can crush a good BB player on a BB or any other size table, with ease. Just my thoughts on this, what do you all think? Johnnyt

Almost perfect. You just have to factor in the break on BB. Some big table players can not get the break down on a BB (i.e. scratchitus). There are a few breaking secrets to the BB that most know, but not all.

PoolBum
05-23-2009, 03:51 PM
I've been playing too much poker. I read "BB" as "big blind" and wondered why the size of the poker table would matter as to how well one plays.