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fatsix
06-18-2009, 08:16 AM
How do you guys go about doing this? Simply put I'm tired of the bullcrap with theese two. One is a 2 (APA) and is progressively getting worse. The other is a 7 (APA) who called the APA and moved himself up. I told him several times to move himself back down. He's won maybe 20% of his games the last two sessions since moving up. Theese two have to play together in order for me to make the handicap. Basically i'm giving the other team two losses.

NewStroke
06-18-2009, 08:21 AM
I know I joke around alot, but this is serious to me.

I was a captain for an APA team and had a guy that was constantly making sexist remarks. He was either trying to shark or just and idiot. After the first warning, I simply told him that he doesn't need to plan on coming back.

I've never booted anybody for trying (APA is a "fun" league"). The guy that moved himself up however I would tell him that there is no place on the team for a 7 that can't win.

Honesty is the best policy.

Richardson
06-18-2009, 08:44 AM
You could always go with the "im dropping the team lie, then just rebuild it with different players"

Otherwise, i never had problems with telling people that i dont need their help anymore and will be finding 2 new players.

I like your comment about APA being a *fun* league. Keep that in mind while keeping players on your team that make it fun for you too ! !

fatsix
06-18-2009, 10:04 AM
problem is that this is the third week into the season. The first week the other team forfited, and next week is a bye. Theese two guys were on the team before i took it over, so i kind of feel bad. But after last night i want to punch them in the face.

s'portplayer
06-18-2009, 10:09 AM
Why would anyone request to have the handicap moved up to a higher level?

ronhudson
06-18-2009, 10:13 AM
Just handle it honestly but diplomatically. Tell him (the 7) you have nothing against him personally, but as captain, it's your job to act for the whole team and to help the team win. Because of APA's 23 rule and because he voluntarily moved himself up to a skill level where he cannot win consistently, you cannot accomplish your job. Give him a last opportunity to move himself down (and tell him it's a final warning), then drop him if he does not.

As far as the 2, is coaching help being offered to him and is he accepting the help or rejecting it?

Sadly, you cannot be a captain and a buddy to each person individually on the team. Everyone on the team has to pull his or her weight. Yes, APA is a fun league, but there's little fun in losing all the time unless drinking is the object and pool is just an excuse.

Big Perm
06-18-2009, 10:17 AM
problem is that this is the third week into the season. The first week the other team forfited, and next week is a bye. Theese two guys were on the team before i took it over, so i kind of feel bad. But after last night i want to punch them in the face.

LOL, slow down there Tyson :D

As far as the 2, you really can't expect much.....they are a 2 because they aren't very good....they win a few matches and all of a sudden they are a 3......IMHO in APA, you need the 2.....just don't play them any more than every other week and realize it's truly a bonus if they win.....we had a guy that was a 2.....I don't think anyone in our league had ever, ever seen a guy that was a 2....he had the stroke of a 4, but he scratched every other shot....he lost 10 matches in a row, but he was such a fun guy, none of us cared....

As far as the 7 that should be ranked as a 6 and plays like a 5.....just talk to him, let him know that he's not holding up his end, and he needs to be ranked appropriately.....let him know it's either that or he needs to find a new team.....give him a choice and see what he does...

As someone said, just keep it honest, it keeps it simple...

stormshadow1
06-18-2009, 10:29 AM
Just handle it honestly but diplomatically. Tell him (the 7) you have nothing against him personally, but as captain, it's your job to act for the whole team and to help the team win. Because of APA's 23 rule and because he voluntarily moved himself up to a skill level where he cannot win consistently, you cannot accomplish your job. Give him a last opportunity to move himself down (and tell him it's a final warning), then drop him if he does not.

As far as the 2, is coaching help being offered to him and is he accepting the help or rejecting it?

Sadly, you cannot be a captain and a buddy to each person individually on the team. Everyone on the team has to pull his or her weight. Yes, APA is a fun league, but there's little fun in losing all the time unless drinking is the object and pool is just an excuse.


I agree with Ron.You need to break it down to him just like that.Its the whole team he hurting by making himself a seven that cant win at that handicap.I too have never heard of someone calling the apa to increase their rank.I don't even think this is possible(not the apa guru at all).Someone on here will know the answer on here I am sure.If you can that is some crazy sh*t.I am curious to know if you can plead your handicap to them.This kind of stuff is why I refuse to be the captain anymore on my squad.It is hard to deal with the bs of making sure everyone shows up and etc.I myself have used the "starting a new team next session" bit for to get rid of a similiar type player.I feel your pain and hope it works out.Just be honest with him and explain with patience.I am sure it will be all good.:smile:

fatsix
06-18-2009, 10:49 AM
ITs an ego thing with the 7. Apparently its better for his pool table business...or fixing the other teams cues and showing them how to make shots during matches. Hes been told enough times to move back down. My team wins 4-1 without the 2 and 7 playing, looses 3-2 with the 2 and 7 playing on a consistant basis. As far as the two goes... i've never seen anyone scratch on every single shot, get to the 8 ball and miss,not to mention the couple ball in hands that resulted in giving a ball in hand back. and the first thing he says to me last night, was the tables messed up. He went to hand me his $7 for the match and i told him he should pay $14 for that performance. As you guys can tell i'm just completely disgusted with the situation and just dont want any arguement to come of it. Last time i threw someone off they would come to our home games, get drunk and want to make comments. Its getting really old being this aggrevated and trying to play.

BVal
06-18-2009, 10:51 AM
ITs an ego thing with the 7. Apparently its better for his pool table business...or fixing the other teams cues and showing them how to make shots during matches. Hes been told enough times to move back down. My team wins 4-1 without the 2 and 7 playing, looses 3-2 with the 2 and 7 playing on a consistant basis. As far as the two goes... i've never seen anyone scratch on every single shot, get to the 8 ball and miss,not to mention the couple ball in hands that resulted in giving a ball in hand back. and the first thing he says to me last night, was the tables messed up. He went to hand me his $7 for the match and i told him he should pay $14 for that performance. As you guys can tell i'm just completely disgusted with the situation and just dont want any arguement to come of it. Last time i threw someone off they would come to our home games, get drunk and want to make comments. Its getting really old being this aggrevated and trying to play.
Loose = Not tight

BVal

fatsix
06-18-2009, 10:53 AM
you absolutely can move yourself up. Call up the regional apa office. Cry to them that everyone is calling you a sandbagger and doesnt want to play you until you move up. I have called twice and they will not move him down since he asked to be moved up. Right now, he'd be a competative 5.

BVal
06-18-2009, 10:56 AM
you absolutely can move yourself up. Call up the regional apa office. Cry to them that everyone is calling you a sandbagger and doesnt want to play you until you move up. I have called twice and they will not move him down since he asked to be moved up. Right now, he'd be a competative 5.
Be honest with them. That is always the best advice no matter what the situation is.

BVal

fatsix
06-18-2009, 10:56 AM
Loose = Not tight

BVal


I find it hard to believe that was the only gramatical error.

BVal
06-18-2009, 10:59 AM
I find it hard to believe that was the only gramatical error.
LOL just the only one that POPS out at me. :)

Seriously though. Be honest with them.

BVal

mosconiac
06-18-2009, 11:02 AM
If it were me, I would finish out the season and form my own team for the next one. Given that you assumed captainship of a team that predates you, it would be pretty bold to kick two established players off...even if they suck...but that's just me. You started the season knowing they were on the team and how they played, right? The self-promotion to 7 is idiotic and you have full rights to demand he reverse that.

BVal
06-18-2009, 11:14 AM
If it were me, I would finish out the season and form my own team for the next one. Given that you assumed captainship of a team that predates you, it would be pretty bold to kick two established players off...even if they suck...but that's just me. You started the season knowing they were on the team and how they played, right? The self-promotion to 7 is idiotic and you have full rights to demand he reverse that.
Great advice.

BVal

stormshadow1
06-18-2009, 11:15 AM
I understand and feel your pain.I hate dealing with some players who talk up their game so much.Then cannot back anything up during league matches.I still cannot fathom his call to the f*cking apa.Come on man I would have said your f*cking done on my squad.How are you going to call them to move you up when I am sure he knows it is handicap the whole team.Not to mention himself looking stupid when he gets crushed by a descent 3.I would not worry bro if he keeps playing like that he down to a 5 very soon anyhow.Hope it works out.We just locked up 1st on Tues for my league so I am stoked on that.7 rounds up with one wk left.Everyone will be playing for second next week so no stress!Just some beers and time to celebrate.It is a cash league so the money really helps in these hard times.We all beared down and stomped the 2nd play team this tues 3 out of 4 rounds huge match.I only one my last match but it was the case game to put us over the top and secure 1st.Had to tell someone wifey could care less!!Good luck with butthead!

fatsix
06-18-2009, 11:21 AM
i've been the captain for 5 sessions.

FeltMaster
06-18-2009, 11:24 AM
you absolutely can move yourself up. Call up the regional apa office. Cry to them that everyone is calling you a sandbagger and doesnt want to play you until you move up. I have called twice and they will not move him down since he asked to be moved up. Right now, he'd be a competative 5.

Why does the "equalizer system" not move him automatically to the rank / level he is playing?
It sounds like your stating he has a bypass to his match results and will not be dropped / adjusted based on performance? This doesn't make any sence to me.
I have seen people have a great 9 ball match and get moved up based on that result alone, (the last session I went from a 5 to a 7 based off two matches I played, but leveled out to a 6) now it is tougher to go back down beacause of the 20 game averaging / anti sandbagging scoring method, but if he loses consistantly, I see the system adjusting his handicap eventually.

my two cents based on my APA playing history.

mikeyfrost
06-18-2009, 11:29 AM
Boot them, the league operator will find them a new home. I just joined back up and apparently am on the worst most competitive team in APA history. We won last week 3-2...I hate 8 ball but can still win 5-0, the 3 guys Ive played have been sub par. You shouldnt be able to win 5-0 in 11 innings playing very little defense. My point is if youre team likes to win you have to have people on your team that are gonna give it their all not donkey their games off. I won't go into the sandbagging thing but your 2 might be your all star player with just a little help at team championships. If you have a 6 or 7 though that cant win, they need to go...u can lose with anyone right?

fatsix
06-18-2009, 11:37 AM
The APA can lock you into a 7, win enough times in the regionals. Or call up and ask to be moved up. I've already asked and argued. He has to call and move himself down. There is no hope for the 2, he practices on his table with the 7. I get to hear that one too, i play great on my table.. does it have basketball sized pockets? because a ball in hand, you should at least make 1 ball, thats all i ask. not the give ball in hand back because you didnt pocket your ball and not hit a rail. Its tearing the team apart, and we are going to go nowhere if i dont replace them and the rest of the team knows this. Thank you for all the info.

stormshadow1
06-18-2009, 11:56 AM
"I just joined back up and apparently am on the worst most competitive team in APA history". by mikeyfrost

I laughed for 5 minutes straight.This is so f*cking true for me everytime I got back and decided to played APA.Never again.Its always "the worst most competitive team ever".Hilarious man.Made me remember all the sh*t that always seems to go down when I was a captain.Rep for you if I can.:cool:

Donny
06-18-2009, 12:08 PM
How do you guys go about doing this? Simply put I'm tired of the bullcrap with theese two. One is a 2 (APA) and is progressively getting worse. The other is a 7 (APA) who called the APA and moved himself up. I told him several times to move himself back down. He's won maybe 20% of his games the last two sessions since moving up. Theese two have to play together in order for me to make the handicap. Basically i'm giving the other team two losses.

The SL7 is easy to cut. Just tell him you're too top heavy and you need to replace him with a SL6. Be honest about his match record and tell him he's not winning enough. He's a 7. He's supposed to be winning a lot more. Problem solved.

If the SL7 is gone, the SL2 becomes useless. 2s almost never win anyway, and the only useful purpose they serve is to make room for the SL6 and above players to play. Tell him that he was very valuable to make room for the 7 to play, and that you no longer need him since the 7 is gone.

frankncali
06-18-2009, 12:13 PM
You do not need anyones approval to fire players. However I like to know that all the others are not going to quit because I let a couple go.

Were you on the team prior to becoming the captain?

After reading your post it reads like you have been on the team for a while. If so you should know how the others feel and then figure it out.

I would just tell them that you are making a change and that you dont want to wait any longer. That way you can find players and get their weeks in and they can find teams.
You say you have only been in the session for a couple weeks right?

I feel your pain and have been there before... like 2 weeks ago :D

dabarbr
06-18-2009, 12:54 PM
These are not the comments of dabarbr, but from his wife the dabarbt, I am the Captain of an 8 ball team and have been for more that 16 years. The APA is suppose to be fun, but, how much fun do you have with these two players if they lose all the time, not much I imagine.

As Captain, you must consider your team first and tell these two that their numbers are not working for your team and replace them. I had to let two of my players go, as one was a 2 and other a 6, my 2 just did not pay attention to the table and when coached did not want to listen and try what she was being told. I needed someone more in the range of a 3 and more open minded.

My two tried real hard and I liked her a lot and I really hated having to replace her, but I needed another player that I could depend on, so I talked with her and was truthful, which is the best.

Everyone should remember, this is not personal, even if the player takes it that way. Captains of the team have to do what is best for the team in order to win . By the way we played the Regionals in May with only 6 players, due to the drops and we won and are going to the Nationals in August.

fatsix
06-24-2009, 10:26 AM
well they are gone. Thanks for all the input. I have a spot on the team now if anyone needs a team in the south jersey area:thumbup:

GMAC
06-24-2009, 11:16 AM
i've been the captain for 5 sessions.

Tell them the can't beat a hard d-ck and relieve them of their APA duties. Captain: you either steer the ship or sink it - so it's up to you to SOS.

jrt30004
06-24-2009, 12:12 PM
i've got the reverse problem. my 7 quit on me by telling appearantly everone but me. just no showed and last sunday i was in the middle of a 9ball match and told one of my 8 ball playes to just start the 8 ball matches and put the 7 up first or second and they gave me the are you retarted look and said. "yeah he's not coming back - didn't you know". and for reasons such as this i have always found it easy to say hey man (or chica for the ladies) sorry but it's just not working out and i think i'm going to try working in a different player. there are plenty of other teams in the division that may be able to use you but right now this team needs to change. and then to no one but myself - sux to be you kid now hit the bricks.

Koop
06-24-2009, 12:18 PM
well they are gone. Thanks for all the input. I have a spot on the team now if anyone needs a team in the south jersey area:thumbup:


Smart move. I would rather carry an open spot than have 2 players who ruin my night out every week.

fatsix
06-24-2009, 12:50 PM
yeah i dont like carrying 8 players, Too much of a headache and I don't get to play as much. The SL7's comment back to me was.. No, thank you, I might not get on another team now. Well d-bag if you would have moved down to a 6, like i've been TELLING you. You would probobly still be on a team. The thing that bothered me the most, During matches, he was showing players on the other team how to make shots. He barrowed my tip tools to fix a tip for the player on the opposing team. We have people on our team that NEED help with setting up shots and flowing thru the game. Something that a higher skill player should be teaching the lower skill levels. Apparently his ego is worth more to him than his team winning.

Luxury
06-24-2009, 01:52 PM
"I've determined that you aren't the right fit for this team but I'm sure you will have no problem finding another team since blah blah blah...so effective immediately we will be playing with the new roster. "

Donny
06-24-2009, 02:09 PM
yeah i dont like carrying 8 players, Too much of a headache and I don't get to play as much.


That's all good until you have a week where people don't show up and you have to forfeit a match.


The SL7's comment back to me was.. No, thank you, I might not get on another team now. Well d-bag if you would have moved down to a 6, like i've been TELLING you. You would probobly still be on a team.


Did this guy actually call the league office and request to be bumped up from a 6 to a 7? I'm a SL7 who used to be a 6 and I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would do that.


The thing that bothered me the most, During matches, he was showing players on the other team how to make shots. He barrowed my tip tools to fix a tip for the player on the opposing team.


That is funny! Did he loan them the tip tool during the match during their time out? Did he help coach players on the other team during time outs?

mongoose-
06-24-2009, 02:10 PM
I would go play a real league like the BCAPL, ACS, or VNEA. Some place you can play with better players & not have to recruit grandma to make 23 rule handicap. :eek:

Donny
06-24-2009, 02:40 PM
I would go play a real league like the BCAPL, ACS, or VNEA. Some place you can play with better players & not have to recruit grandma to make 23 rule handicap. :eek:

You got that right. I had to call up granny several times or else I couldn't have played. :D

fatsix
06-26-2009, 04:54 PM
[Donny;1889134]That's all good until you have a week where people don't show up and you have to forfeit a match.

Everyone on my team shows up every match, and has fun except for theese two. NO worries here. The others were more likely to quit because of the nonsense and lack of effort.

Did this guy actually call the league office and request to be bumped up from a 6 to a 7? I'm a SL7 who used to be a 6 and I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would do that.

Yes! He cried to the operator that everyone was calling him a sandbagger and noone wanted to play him. So he locked himself in as a 7 for life now. Maybe he sells more pool table recoverings being a 7. I dunno, he was useless as a 7, was barely a good 6. He lost to all the other 7's... I honestly hope he gets on another team and plays against us, and i can have my "real" 6 make him cry. He didn't care about the team when it boils down to it. I dont groom Egos.

That is funny! Did he loan them the tip tool during the match during their time out? Did he help coach players on the other team during time outs?

No, but i was going to charge the guy, whose tip he fixed.

DaveK
06-26-2009, 05:17 PM
well they are gone. Thanks for all the input. I have a spot on the team now if anyone needs a team in the south jersey area:thumbup:

Then you don't need Andys solution, but you'll get it anyway ;)

And again, YOU DA MAN JACKIE !

Dave

TX Poolnut
06-26-2009, 05:21 PM
All's well that ends well.

chin0
06-26-2009, 07:31 PM
The traditional way out, formal but to the point. Send them a letter, "We regret ti inform you that we no longer need you for our team. Effective immediately" Sign by all the members of the team. :D

Blue Hog ridr
06-26-2009, 07:57 PM
Or even easier, send them a letter. Hey guys, you'll never believe what just happened, they canceled APA in our area. Thanks for coming out, BYE!