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GG11
06-19-2009, 10:20 AM
Interesting layout that happened last night in league.... what would you do here.... I'll post what Tony did after a few responses..

You have Ball in Hand....what's your strategy? The Four Ball is Frozen and so not cuttable in the side pocket.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1DbMa4FLOy1GFEB1HBfQ3IWqH2qQtFBall_in_Hand!&ZZ@

Black-Balled
06-19-2009, 10:25 AM
Shoot the 4 to bottom L) pocket and follow for 6. Anywhere but straight is is workable, but I prefer tthe angle to go to bottom rail.

CreeDo
06-19-2009, 11:03 AM
You plant the cue ball in the jaws of the side pocket, giving yourself an outside angle on the 4 to make it easier to get on the 6.

sfleinen
06-19-2009, 11:04 AM
GG:

Is that 4-ball frozen right on the "horn" of the side pocket (e.g. more on the table side than the pocket side)?

If so, would a hard center-ball stun shot (aimed directly into the center of the side pocket) "bend" the horn of the side pocket out of the way and pocket the 4-ball into that pocket? Maybe with top applied to bounce off the rail and fish-hook down table for the 6-ball?

If the 4-ball is located too far from the horn of the pocket to do this, then I'm thinking what Black-Balled suggests -- try to pocket that 4-ball down the rail (past the side pocket -- yikes!) into the bottom-left corner ("bottom-left" as viewed on the cuetable diagram) and follow down for the 6-ball.

Dying to know what Tony did...
-Sean
Interesting layout that happened last night in league.... what would you do here.... I'll post what Tony did after a few responses..

You have Ball in Hand....what's your strategy? The Four Ball is Frozen and so not cuttable in the side pocket.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1DbMa4FLOy1GFEB1HBfQ3IWqH2qQtFBall_in_Hand!&ZZ@

Cornerman
06-19-2009, 11:19 AM
I would play safe. Ha!!!

Actually, I'd tell my opponent that unbeknownst to him, when the clock hits 9PM, the game changes to 8-ball. Them's the house rules. And look at the time! 9:01PM. And I have stripes. How fortunate.

Fred <~~~ wouldn't even dream of playing safe

GG11
06-19-2009, 11:19 AM
GG:

Is that 4-ball frozen right on the "horn" of the side pocket (e.g. more on the table side than the pocket side)?

Dying to know what Tony did...
-Sean

LOL -- The four is more table side than pocket side...If it were more pocket side, TR showed me a shot once that had him hit the 4-ball almost head on into the rail and the cue double-kissed the 4 ball in the side pocket. He may have tried that if it were available...but the 4 is a hair below the point of the side pocket....and frozen.

cookie man
06-19-2009, 12:11 PM
Dead bank, cue on the spot, low right, drill 4 ball cross corner.

cleary
06-19-2009, 12:22 PM
this is a fun shot. Just touch the 4 and freeze the cueball on the inside of the pocket. Very touchy shot, but if it works, it would be a hard kick with that 8 in the way.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1DbMa4FLOy1GFEB1HBfQ3IWqH4PblE1XbMa1XbMu4kblE1kc CK2qQtFBall_in_Hand!&ZZ@

If the side pocket isnt uneven, high inside should shoot the ball in the pocket and get good shape on the 6.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1DbMa4FLOy1GFEB1HBfQ3IWqH1PaHS1XbMa4Xadr4Xdfv1ka HS1kbUq4kHeO2qQtFBall_in_Hand!&ZZ@


if your lucky, draw off the point
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1DbMa4FLOy1GFEB1HBfQ3IWqH4PbUD1XbMa1Xatr1XdOt4kb UD1kbUJ4kbdT4kJaV2qQtFBall_in_Hand!&ZZ@

Samiel
06-19-2009, 12:28 PM
cleary's safety is fun shot to do against someone who doesn't kick too well. Otherwise I believe it's a fairly straight-forward run-out since the 4-ball will go into either pockets.

mia
06-19-2009, 12:33 PM
You plant the cue ball in the jaws of the side pocket, giving yourself an outside angle on the 4 to make it easier to get on the 6.

What he said.
Playing the safe ain't a bad idea, but giving how soft you have to hit it to freeze the CB to the point, its too risky. Cause the object ball will move off the rail, but just enough to make ANY see on it an easier sdhot for your opponent.

Of course, knowing the level Tony plays at, I'm sure this isn't too difficult for him.

Still, I'd play the cueball in the jaws and draw.

cleary
06-19-2009, 12:38 PM
cleary's safety is fun shot to do against someone who doesn't kick too well. Otherwise I believe it's a fairly straight-forward run-out since the 4-ball will go into either pockets.

How would you go about kicking at the 4? With a frozen cueball, I dont see an easy hit on the 4.

I mean, the safety is a low percentage out, but the goal would be to move the 4 off the rail slightly to make pocketing/position easier.

Ponytail
06-19-2009, 12:39 PM
You plant the cue ball in the jaws of the side pocket, giving yourself an outside angle on the 4 to make it easier to get on the 6.

BINGO!!! We have a winnar!

Doing the same thing.

GG11
06-19-2009, 12:46 PM
We have a winner!!

Mr. Cleary!!

LOL -- Tony simply nudged the 4-ball to the second diamond and "titty-hooked" poor Trevor. Trevor tried one rail kick and left Tony the open table.

I'm not saying it's the right or wrong shot, I'm definitely NOT the person qualified to answer, just relaying an interesting shot. Even Danny Barouti said, "I've never seen that shot before!" LOL

And there's your fun Friday Shot of the Week! :)

Jude Rosenstock
06-19-2009, 01:18 PM
We have a winner!!

Mr. Cleary!!

LOL -- Tony simply nudged the 4-ball to the second diamond and "titty-hooked" poor Trevor. Trevor tried one rail kick and left Tony the open table.

I'm not saying it's the right or wrong shot, I'm definitely NOT the person qualified to answer, just relaying an interesting shot. Even Danny Barouti said, "I've never seen that shot before!" LOL

And there's your fun Friday Shot of the Week! :)

This is a funny situation. If the 4ball were actually "frozen" to the rail, I'm not sure I'd play the safety since I have to make sure the cueball touches the rail or it's a foul. If the 4ball is near frozen (which is what I think you meant), the safety is much easier.

Placing the cueball on the lip of the side to create that outside angle works great and I've done that a bunch of times. The only thing is, Tony has to get the cueball to travel a little more than what one might be comfortable with in such a situation. With such an easy safety available, why bother taking the risk?

mamono
06-19-2009, 01:21 PM
this is a fun shot. Just touch the 4 and freeze the cueball on the inside of the pocket. Very touchy shot, but if it works, it would be a hard kick with that 8 in the way.

I like this safe, never really thought about doing it. Since my speed control is a lot better now than it was many years ago when had this opportunity, I would love to try this method. Thanks for sharing!

Neil
06-19-2009, 01:26 PM
............

sfleinen
06-19-2009, 01:31 PM
This is a funny situation. If the 4ball were actually "frozen" to the rail, I'm not sure I'd play the safety since I have to make sure the cueball touches the rail or it's a foul. If the 4ball is near frozen (which is what I think you meant), the safety is much easier.
[...]


Jude:

Even if the 4-ball is frozen to the rail, with the hemispere of the 4-ball extending just past the point of the side pocket, it shouldn't be too difficult to go straight into the 4-ball, with just a hint of angle (very, very minute) towards the inside of the side pocket, to have the cue roll-up against the wall of the side pocket. (Even if the cue ball bounces off that side wall slightly, I'm guess the result will still be that the horn of the side pocket will obscure a direct hit on the 4-ball, no?) I guess the answer depends on how deeply the pocket shelf extends into the pocket on that particular table, to answer the question of what kind of scratch risk this shot is...

A touch shot for sure, but as you stated, a higher percentage than going all out for an aggressive shot.

Pretty fun shot by Tony! I'll bet poor Trevor didn't think so...

-Sean

Jude Rosenstock
06-19-2009, 01:37 PM
Jude:

Even if the 4-ball is frozen to the rail, with the hemispere of the 4-ball extending just past the point of the side pocket, it shouldn't be too difficult to go straight into the 4-ball, with just a hint of angle (very, very minute) towards the inside of the side pocket, to have the cue roll-up against the wall of the side pocket. (Even if the cue ball bounces off that side wall slightly, I'm guess the result will still be that the horn of the side pocket will obscure a direct hit on the 4-ball, no?) I guess the answer depends on how deeply the pocket shelf extends into the pocket on that particular table, to answer the question of what kind of scratch risk this shot is...

A touch shot for sure, but as you stated, a higher percentage than going all out for an aggressive shot.

Pretty fun shot by Tony! I'll bet poor Trevor didn't think so...

-Sean

I think we can write this off to an equipment-specific situation. Since I know the tables Tony played this shot on, I think it's fair to say if you need to achieve a rail with the cueball, there's added risk. If not, it's an easy safe.

Neil
06-19-2009, 01:55 PM
A touch shot for sure, but as you stated, a higher percentage than going all out for an aggressive shot.



Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one. IMHO, there is NO reason to play safe when you have an open shot. And, you do here. The shot requires no more skill than the safe does. Try it a few times, it is easier than many think it is.

uwate
06-19-2009, 02:00 PM
You have an open shot with ball in hand. You gotta swing here and put the cueball deep in the jaws and draw out to the middle of the table. Playing safe has to be nearly as tough and even if it isnt, you have a good shot to win..why take the chance of your opponent kicking in a ball and running out?

Black-Balled
06-19-2009, 02:02 PM
I am still right. Literally.

I don't want to shoot the 6 from the center of the table, esp w/ 9b there. I want to shoot 6 by 9 and hit end rail (or 2rails out of corner) to get back up table.

As someone else stated...let's hope the side pocket is cut right!:eek:

Black-Balled
06-19-2009, 02:03 PM
You have an open shot with ball in hand. You gotta swing here and put the cueball deep in the jaws and draw out to the middle of the table. Playing safe has to be nearly as tough and even if it isnt, you have a good shot to win..why take the chance of your opponent kicking in a ball and running out?

I have seen you and you are not a lefty;). You better get under the 6 then!

Celtic
06-19-2009, 02:35 PM
This is a funny situation. If the 4ball were actually "frozen" to the rail, I'm not sure I'd play the safety since I have to make sure the cueball touches the rail or it's a foul. If the 4ball is near frozen (which is what I think you meant), the safety is much easier.

The thing is though if the 4-ball is not quite frozen the shot to the left corner becomes pretty easy for anyone who can shoot, and the out is pretty easy after that. Letting your opponent back at the table with a chance to make a kick safety could suddenly have you wishing you had just run out.

If the table is that bad that the horn might be an issue if the 4 is frozen I am not sure I would want to trust the table any more on hitting the 4 and holding the cueball up on the lip of the pocket.

I honestly think if you are playing someone who is good you just run out here. If you are playing someone not so good and want to toy with them, that horn hook will do it.

GG11
06-19-2009, 02:39 PM
Glad you all enjoyed it -- very unique situation...thought it'd be fun to share.

I spoke with Tony about the shot -- 4-ball WAS frozen but it was frozen in a way that it wasn't makeable in the side and if he shot it in either corner pocket, he'd risk hitting the points of the side pocket. He said when he shot the shot, he put the cue ball very close to the 4-ball and hit the ball nearly dead full, just a hair to the left so that it nearly kills the cue ball with just enough speed to nuzzle behind the point.

:) Happy Friday!!

Samiel
06-19-2009, 02:40 PM
How would you go about kicking at the 4? With a frozen cueball, I dont see an easy hit on the 4.

I mean, the safety is a low percentage out, but the goal would be to move the 4 off the rail slightly to make pocketing/position easier.

Depending on where the 4-ball ends up and if the cue-ball ends up frozen or not, you could leave a 1-rail kick or multi-rail kick. Against good players, kicking to hit a ball isn't too hard... getting safe is harder... or luckier! :p

poolplayer2093
06-19-2009, 02:58 PM
put the CB near the side and shoot theh 4 in the corner

cleary
06-19-2009, 04:16 PM
I think we can write this off to an equipment-specific situation. Since I know the tables Tony played this shot on, I think it's fair to say if you need to achieve a rail with the cueball, there's added risk. If not, it's an easy safe.

The shot is much easier on a diamond with the deep shelf, but works just the same on a GC. Its actually hard to miss getting the cueball to the rail(inside part of the side pocket facing), the hard part is hitting the OB first and not scratching. Inside english helps hold it.

I played a similar shot in the corner pocket. I dont remember the exact layout, but it was something like this. I just remember I couldnt pocket the ball and it was frozen right on the edge of where the pocket facing starts. http://CueTable.com/P/?@3CadP4DFIy3EYNp2FICr1HQQw4ICXp3Palj3WadP3WadD3ka lj3katc3kbja@

Tennesseejoe
06-19-2009, 05:53 PM
Interesting layout that happened last night in league.... what would you do here.... I'll post what Tony did after a few responses..

You have Ball in Hand....what's your strategy? The Four Ball is Frozen and so not cuttable in the side pocket.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1DbMa4FLOy1GFEB1HBfQ3IWqH2qQtFBall_in_Hand!&ZZ@


Shoot the 6 into the side pocket off of the 4. The 4 goes down by the corner pocket. Shoot the 4 next then the 7 and get position on the 8 ball.

By the way ---we are shooting 8 ball aren't we---or are we making an assumption?

poolhustler
06-19-2009, 07:03 PM
You plant the cue ball in the jaws of the side pocket, giving yourself an outside angle on the 4 to make it easier to get on the 6.

Sounds kinda crazy, but that is exactly what I would do!!!!

:thumbup:

TX Poolnut
06-19-2009, 07:08 PM
I would play the slow roll safety behind the point of the side pocket. Cleary's shot.

CreeDo
06-19-2009, 08:23 PM
While I'm still doing my original shot and feel like I'm gonna get out here... I do like that safety. I especially like it given the position of the 8.

I never saw it until I recently watched a link to an old accustats instructional video, where pat fleming explains various tricks (including some great safeties). It's on youtube. This was one of the tricks, and it came up for me the very same day and I pulled it off.

If the 8's not there, it crossbanks into the side pretty easily by cutting it straight sideways into the rail. Just the collision induced throw is enough to send it into the opposite side pocket.